My PTS sorcerer experience in Maelstrom Arena: Surge & Shields

Erraln

Joy_Division wrote: »

A great deal of detail

Here's my experience with Surge in Maelstrom. Summary: 413k in 1:35 with 1 life remaining on an Altmer template. Moderately messy play, my best on Live is 539k.

I think a large portion of your difficulties were caused by your set choice. While this wasn't a clean run by any means, Infallible Aether performed well with Willpower and Nerien'eth.

You're right that Surge isn't enough to support Maelstrom play by itself, as it used to be. I slotted a lot of survival skills that I wouldn't on live, but I got it done, and Surge definitely helped with that. I used the magic morph to allow me, with Inner Light slotted, to skip spell power pots in favor of tripots. I drank them on cooldown for the magic grant more than the health, but I'm sure the additional hp gen played its part. I chose not to cast Overload, opting to test the healing Negate morph.

My #1 issue was magicka management, my blue pool just seemed to drain every time I stopped looking at it. It definitely caused some deaths. Perhaps I wasn't using my Resto channel to its utmost potential, but long habit of out-damaging things instead of standing my ground and recovering kept me from purposefully spamming heavy attacks very often. Inf.Aether proved its worth when I did, though, transforming my regeneration move into a moderate attack of its own.

It's a blow, these changes. Sorcerer will need more effort to reach the same level of solo competence Live builds afford us, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 550k+ scores won't be going away. 570 though? Maybe.

PS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , Audio Errors were common throughout this run, ESPECIALLY in arena 7. Was using the 64bit client. A7 Starts at the 48 Minute mark if y'all want to doublecheck. I don't think it happened on this particular one, but on my previous run an error which seemed to be coming from the poison cure pools could only be described as a LOUD motor overheating, likely a short duration repeating clip. Was weird!

ArvenAldmeri

This post is so well written and while reading it I actually found myself crying. I played sorc as my main in pve for 2 years... now I think its over... Done. If ZOS does not take the change to surge back then I can say good bye to any vetMaelstrom arena achievements... I am never gonna finish it with this surge nerf... I knew that the change is gonna be bad as soon as I saw the patch notes... when I came on pts and saw the flat number of the heal we are gonna get I knew its over but this post just made me realize it even more. Just over, no trials, no maelstrom. Sorc is burried.

Khaos_Bane

Erraln wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A great deal of detail

Here's my experience with Surge in Maelstrom. Summary: 413k in 1:35 with 1 life remaining on an Altmer template. Moderately messy play, my best on Live is 539k.

I think a large portion of your difficulties were caused by your set choice. While this wasn't a clean run by any means, Infallible Aether performed well with Willpower and Nerien'eth.

You're right that Surge isn't enough to support Maelstrom play by itself, as it used to be. I slotted a lot of survival skills that I wouldn't on live, but I got it done, and Surge definitely helped with that. I used the magic morph to allow me, with Inner Light slotted, to skip spell power pots in favor of tripots. I drank them on cooldown for the magic grant more than the health, but I'm sure the additional hp gen played its part. I chose not to cast Overload, opting to test the healing Negate morph.

My #1 issue was magicka management, my blue pool just seemed to drain every time I stopped looking at it. It definitely caused some deaths. Perhaps I wasn't using my Resto channel to its utmost potential, but long habit of out-damaging things instead of standing my ground and recovering kept me from purposefully spamming heavy attacks very often. Inf.Aether proved its worth when I did, though, transforming my regeneration move into a moderate attack of its own.

It's a blow, these changes. Sorcerer will need more effort to reach the same level of solo competence Live builds afford us, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 550k+ scores won't be going away. 570 though? Maybe.

PS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , Audio Errors were common throughout this run, ESPECIALLY in arena 7. Was using the 64bit client. A7 Starts at the 48 Minute mark if y'all want to doublecheck. I don't think it happened on this particular one, but on my previous run an error which seemed to be coming from the poison cure pools could only be described as a LOUD motor overheating, likely a short duration repeating clip. Was weird!

Well written post, you seem to be a very experienced player. The problem is most players aren't and these changes are really going to impact a lot of players in a very negative way. The game overall is taking a good direction, but constant nerfing like this takes it's toll. The nerf was so bad for sorcs that it changed how the class is played and it's unique abilities and sorc adaptability.

Overall, the class changes recently, have made the play of this game worse, not better.

Derra

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A great deal of detail

Here's my experience with Surge in Maelstrom. Summary: 413k in 1:35 with 1 life remaining on an Altmer template. Moderately messy play, my best on Live is 539k.

I think a large portion of your difficulties were caused by your set choice. While this wasn't a clean run by any means, Infallible Aether performed well with Willpower and Nerien'eth.

You're right that Surge isn't enough to support Maelstrom play by itself, as it used to be. I slotted a lot of survival skills that I wouldn't on live, but I got it done, and Surge definitely helped with that. I used the magic morph to allow me, with Inner Light slotted, to skip spell power pots in favor of tripots. I drank them on cooldown for the magic grant more than the health, but I'm sure the additional hp gen played its part. I chose not to cast Overload, opting to test the healing Negate morph.

My #1 issue was magicka management, my blue pool just seemed to drain every time I stopped looking at it. It definitely caused some deaths. Perhaps I wasn't using my Resto channel to its utmost potential, but long habit of out-damaging things instead of standing my ground and recovering kept me from purposefully spamming heavy attacks very often. Inf.Aether proved its worth when I did, though, transforming my regeneration move into a moderate attack of its own.

It's a blow, these changes. Sorcerer will need more effort to reach the same level of solo competence Live builds afford us, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 550k+ scores won't be going away. 570 though? Maybe.

PS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , Audio Errors were common throughout this run, ESPECIALLY in arena 7. Was using the 64bit client. A7 Starts at the 48 Minute mark if y'all want to doublecheck. I don't think it happened on this particular one, but on my previous run an error which seemed to be coming from the poison cure pools could only be described as a LOUD motor overheating, likely a short duration repeating clip. Was weird!

Well written post, you seem to be a very experienced player. The problem is most players aren't and these changes are really going to impact a lot of players in a very negative way. The game overall is taking a good direction, but constant nerfing like this takes it's toll. The nerf was so bad for sorcs that it changed how the class is played and it's unique abilities and sorc adaptability.

Overall, the class changes recently, have made the play of this game worse, not better.

The problem i have with all of this is:

I already find hardly any difference in running the arena with NB, Sorc or Templar on live.
I do it deathless with NB just as i do it with sorc and my templar runs are usually also 0 to 3 deaths.

My NB is a tad slower than my sorc because i don´t use BIS gear as i´m too lazy to mule it.
My templar is a bosmer in magica spec with v15 purple kagrenac.
The scores are 566k sorc, 547k NB, 510k Temp.

I think there would hardly be any difference in difficulty at all if i wasn´t too lazy to mule gear.
Yet the sorc gets an incredibly hefty nerf. My NB and Templar are hardly affecty by the small selfhealing changes at all. They feel completely fine and i´m 100% confident to get the same score with DB patch that i´m getting now on live (templar with dampen + sweeps and ritual of retribution feels even stronger on pts than on live).
My sorc compared to that feels absolutely demolished. It´s strenous to play and way harder than NB or templar with these changes.
That does not make sense from my perspective.

Also i think with these hefty nerfs ZOS imo has to reset the leaderboards for sorcerers (better all classes) as it will be 100% impossible to reach the current top 10 scores.

Maily directed @Erraln
Why is it ok for surge to not be sufficient as the only heal in the arena yet it´s ok on NB and Templar that funnel health (not even swallow morph) and puncturing sweeps + ritual are sufficient healing.
Why should sorc have to run more defense than other classes and also slot a resto staff for that purpose?

Derra

Edit: buggy double post.

willymchilybily

@derra I quite agree.

its not like other classes don't have healing damage moves that are powerful, DKs have embers, Templars have sweeps ,NBs have swallow soul.

They are all strong, unique heals from damage, other than DK's embers they are actually very popular damage spam moves too. all are good/essential for maelstrom DPS.

I just don't know why they decied the had to remove something very comparable from the Sorc's arsenal ?

Derra

willymchilybily wrote: »

@derra I quite agree.

its not like other classes don't have healing damage moves that are powerful, DKs have embers, Templars have sweeps ,NBs have swallow soul.

They are all strong, unique heals from damage, other than DK's embers they are actually very popular damage spam moves too. all are good/essential for maelstrom DPS.

I just don't know why they decied the had to remove something very comparable from the Sorc's arsenal ?

And it wasn´t even comparable before the nerf.

I can confortably run the arena on NB without a resto staff and without harness on live. If i´d try it on sorc with just using surge as a heal without a shield slotted i don´t think that would end well.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

@derra I quite agree.

its not like other classes don't have healing damage moves that are powerful, DKs have embers, Templars have sweeps ,NBs have swallow soul.

They are all strong, unique heals from damage, other than DK's embers they are actually very popular damage spam moves too. all are good/essential for maelstrom DPS.

I just don't know why they decied the had to remove something very comparable from the Sorc's arsenal ?

And it wasn´t even comparable before the nerf.

I can confortably run the arena on NB without a resto staff and without harness on live. If i´d try it on sorc with just using surge as a heal without a shield slotted i don´t think that would end well.

Haven't you heard that sorcs are fine apparently according to people that don't play sorcs? I guess we that actually play sorcs as mains and have tried the PTS out should just be quiet and deal with it. xD

Joy_Division

Erraln wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A great deal of detail

Here's my experience with Surge in Maelstrom. Summary: 413k in 1:35 with 1 life remaining on an Altmer template. Moderately messy play, my best on Live is 539k.

I think a large portion of your difficulties were caused by your set choice. While this wasn't a clean run by any means, Infallible Aether performed well with Willpower and Nerien'eth.

You're right that Surge isn't enough to support Maelstrom play by itself, as it used to be. I slotted a lot of survival skills that I wouldn't on live, but I got it done, and Surge definitely helped with that. I used the magic morph to allow me, with Inner Light slotted, to skip spell power pots in favor of tripots. I drank them on cooldown for the magic grant more than the health, but I'm sure the additional hp gen played its part. I chose not to cast Overload, opting to test the healing Negate morph.

My #1 issue was magicka management, my blue pool just seemed to drain every time I stopped looking at it. It definitely caused some deaths. Perhaps I wasn't using my Resto channel to its utmost potential, but long habit of out-damaging things instead of standing my ground and recovering kept me from purposefully spamming heavy attacks very often. Inf.Aether proved its worth when I did, though, transforming my regeneration move into a moderate attack of its own.

It's a blow, these changes. Sorcerer will need more effort to reach the same level of solo competence Live builds afford us, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 550k+ scores won't be going away. 570 though? Maybe.

PS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , Audio Errors were common throughout this run, ESPECIALLY in arena 7. Was using the 64bit client. A7 Starts at the 48 Minute mark if y'all want to doublecheck. I don't think it happened on this particular one, but on my previous run an error which seemed to be coming from the poison cure pools could only be described as a LOUD motor overheating, likely a short duration repeating clip. Was weird!

I appreciate you taking two hours with no Live reward (!) so as to give ZoS a better idea of what the surge change will mean.

From what I saw in your run, I would not attribute the difference largely to poor gear. Mostly because I used the same crap gear on a templar template and did not have those difficulties. Rather, I think the other factors are coming into play:

• You ran a restoration staff with Mutgaen
• You used tripots on cooldown
• You were not in a situation where you had Overload active and low health
• You are better at this content than I am.

Your experience demonstrates what I do not doubt, that the DB sorcerer will be able to complete this arena, provided they make sacrifices (mutagen, tripots, no dual swords) and ... the player is very good. Your best score on Live is 539K. That's exceptional. I have the Flawless Conqueror achievement so I'd like to think I know what I am doing, but my best score is like 450K. If you have the aptitude such that you can casually refer to 550K scores not going away any time soon, then the blow that sorcerers are taking here isn't quite the bitter pill to swallow.

My concern is not that a good sorcerer player will not be able to complete vMA or other high-end PvE content. Rather that good player can do so easier with more build flexibility by playing a different class. In my estimation, sorcerers were not over-performing in self-sustain to warrant that they alone of the three classes must make a greater effort in the DB update.

I might try this again because there is one factor that I have not accounted for - just not being used to surviving on a sorcerer with short duration shields sans burst Surge heals. However, if the question I keep asking myself is "Why does my sorcerer have to make sacrifices to overcome to the removal of her best tools, yet my templar does not have to?", my critique of the DB Sorcerer changes still stands.

Digiman

Wrobel solution is to go stamina or go home.

He literally has had it out for this class since it went live, it's the only reason I can come up with, with all these changes. There is no way an adequate plan for a class could be torn to shreds by DB.

The sad thing is that people don't see what's coming next, the next DLC will be nothing but a Sorcerer overhaul while they sit their with their own bugs for a content patch because of the lack of sorcerers playing PvE and PvP due to them getting one shotted.

Hope Wrobel has the decency to give Sorcerers a tombstone, because playing overloader 1000 isn't fun and am sick of the toggles.

Solariken

@Joy_Division, also curious, how much HP did you have in your PTS vMA test? In my experience with running on my stam toons, 20k HP is the magic number in vMA. Any less than that and you can be blown up without warning. But with >20k, you survive burst with plenty of time to heal up. It's possible that one of the adaptations Sorcs could look at is their health pools. Until DB, Sorcs were able to forego health for increased damage output, which was more difficult for other classes.

Also, with only 300CP and a garbage 5-set, vMA should be hard even for a decent player. Now again, I appreciate your feedback and the time you took to test - in no way do I mean to downplay what you and so many sorc players are so fervently saying about the nerfs, but there are a ton of variables here.

Emma_Overload

Derra wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A great deal of detail

Here's my experience with Surge in Maelstrom. Summary: 413k in 1:35 with 1 life remaining on an Altmer template. Moderately messy play, my best on Live is 539k.

I think a large portion of your difficulties were caused by your set choice. While this wasn't a clean run by any means, Infallible Aether performed well with Willpower and Nerien'eth.

You're right that Surge isn't enough to support Maelstrom play by itself, as it used to be. I slotted a lot of survival skills that I wouldn't on live, but I got it done, and Surge definitely helped with that. I used the magic morph to allow me, with Inner Light slotted, to skip spell power pots in favor of tripots. I drank them on cooldown for the magic grant more than the health, but I'm sure the additional hp gen played its part. I chose not to cast Overload, opting to test the healing Negate morph.

My #1 issue was magicka management, my blue pool just seemed to drain every time I stopped looking at it. It definitely caused some deaths. Perhaps I wasn't using my Resto channel to its utmost potential, but long habit of out-damaging things instead of standing my ground and recovering kept me from purposefully spamming heavy attacks very often. Inf.Aether proved its worth when I did, though, transforming my regeneration move into a moderate attack of its own.

It's a blow, these changes. Sorcerer will need more effort to reach the same level of solo competence Live builds afford us, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. 550k+ scores won't be going away. 570 though? Maybe.

PS, @ZOS_GinaBruno , Audio Errors were common throughout this run, ESPECIALLY in arena 7. Was using the 64bit client. A7 Starts at the 48 Minute mark if y'all want to doublecheck. I don't think it happened on this particular one, but on my previous run an error which seemed to be coming from the poison cure pools could only be described as a LOUD motor overheating, likely a short duration repeating clip. Was weird!

Well written post, you seem to be a very experienced player. The problem is most players aren't and these changes are really going to impact a lot of players in a very negative way. The game overall is taking a good direction, but constant nerfing like this takes it's toll. The nerf was so bad for sorcs that it changed how the class is played and it's unique abilities and sorc adaptability.

Overall, the class changes recently, have made the play of this game worse, not better.

The problem i have with all of this is:

I already find hardly any difference in running the arena with NB, Sorc or Templar on live.
I do it deathless with NB just as i do it with sorc and my templar runs are usually also 0 to 3 deaths.

My NB is a tad slower than my sorc because i don´t use BIS gear as i´m too lazy to mule it.
My templar is a bosmer in magica spec with v15 purple kagrenac.
The scores are 566k sorc, 547k NB, 510k Temp.

I think there would hardly be any difference in difficulty at all if i wasn´t too lazy to mule gear.
Yet the sorc gets an incredibly hefty nerf. My NB and Templar are hardly affecty by the small selfhealing changes at all. They feel completely fine and i´m 100% confident to get the same score with DB patch that i´m getting now on live (templar with dampen + sweeps and ritual of retribution feels even stronger on pts than on live).
My sorc compared to that feels absolutely demolished. It´s strenous to play and way harder than NB or templar with these changes.
That does not make sense from my perspective.

Also i think with these hefty nerfs ZOS imo has to reset the leaderboards for sorcerers (better all classes) as it will be 100% impossible to reach the current top 10 scores.

Maily directed @Erraln
Why is it ok for surge to not be sufficient as the only heal in the arena yet it´s ok on NB and Templar that funnel health (not even swallow morph) and puncturing sweeps + ritual are sufficient healing.
Why should sorc have to run more defense than other classes and also slot a resto staff for that purpose?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Sorcs who enjoy playing defensively and stacking shields every 3 seconds will be fine, I guess. But what about the Sorcs who want to play aggressively with "always be attacking" style we had when ESO launched? That kind of gameplay seems dead now, at least for Sorcs.

Hadan_of_Rift

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Valrien

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Its no more OP than any other ability that heals and does damage. You're trolling, right?

@Hadan_of_Rift

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Another person that never played a sorcerer in his life commenting about things he knows nothing at all about, good job making yourself look bad, lol.

Hadan_of_Rift

Valrien wrote: »

Its no more OP than any other ability that heals and does damage. You're trolling, right?

@Hadan_of_Rift

Wait what? Ok please enlighten me of other damage heals that 1) you can use another ability and still get a heal? 2) that heals for the amount that crit surge did?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Another person that never played a sorcerer in his life commenting about things he knows nothing at all about, good job making yourself look bad, lol.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't play a Sorc. I have 2 Sorcs; Stamina and Magicka, and Crit Surge was extremely OP, just like Overload is OP.

Just like any sane stamina 2-h player would admit Wrecking Blow was OP. It doesn't mean you don't take advantage of it, but it doesn't make it any less OP.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Its no more OP than any other ability that heals and does damage. You're trolling, right?

@Hadan_of_Rift

Wait what? Ok please enlighten me of other damage heals that 1) you can use another ability and still get a heal? 2) that heals for the amount that crit surge did?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Another person that never played a sorcerer in his life commenting about things he knows nothing at all about, good job making yourself look bad, lol.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't play a Sorc. I have 2 Sorcs Stamina and Magicka, and Crit Surge was extremely OP, just like Overload is OP.

Just like any sane stamina 2-h player would admit Wrecking Blow was OP. It doesn't mean you don't take advantage of it, but it doesn't make it any less OP.

I've tried out the other classes since the PTS came out and I got to say, sorcs are extremely underpowered next patch compared to everything else. So we should nerf the other 3 classes too to bring them down to sorc levels then, right?

Hadan_of_Rift

Valrien wrote: »

I've tried out the other classes since the PTS came out and I got to say, sorcs are extremely underpowered next patch compared to everything else. So we should nerf the other 3 classes too to bring them down to sorc levels then, right?

In your opinion, sorcs are extremely under-powered. Are some class getting an over the top buff... yes I would say the change to Stamina DK especially with the re-release of Morag Tong Set is over the top. The change for NB is a little much too, I especially don't like that because of that changed Magicka NB got a small nerf.I think it's a lot too early to say Magicka Sorcs are dead because of these changes. I think good players will adapt and still be fine.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I've tried out the other classes since the PTS came out and I got to say, sorcs are extremely underpowered next patch compared to everything else. So we should nerf the other 3 classes too to bring them down to sorc levels then, right?

In your opinion, sorcs are extremely under-powered. Are some class getting an over the top buff... yes I would say the change to Stamina DK especially with the re-release of Morag Tong Set is over the top. The change for NB is a little much too, I especially don't like that because of that changed Magicka NB got a small nerf.I think it's a lot too early to say Magicka Sorcs are dead because of these changes. I think good players will adapt and still be fine.

Good players can adapt and do ok with the sorc class or they can take any other class and do even better. So why go for a sorc again?

cschwingeb14_ESO

Strife ticks 3-4 times, doesn't require a crit to heal, crits for 15k damage in a good maelstrom setup and heals an ally or provides increased healing taken.

You picked the worst example to compare surge to, if you want to say surge is OP.

Strife is ridiculously OP compared to the new surge

Hadan_of_Rift

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Strife ticks 3-4 times, doesn't require a crit to heal, crits for 15k damage in a good maelstrom setup and heals an ally or provides increased healing taken.

You picked the worst example to compare surge to, if you want to say surge is OP.

Strife is ridiculously OP compared to the new surge

I wasn't comparing it to the new surge but the old surge. I'm not saying the new surge is OP I'm saying the old surge was OP. Also strife hits every 2 seconds 25% of the damage done from using strife. You would never see Strife healing for 11,458 a tick ever.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Strife ticks 3-4 times, doesn't require a crit to heal, crits for 15k damage in a good maelstrom setup and heals an ally or provides increased healing taken.

You picked the worst example to compare surge to, if you want to say surge is OP.

Strife is ridiculously OP compared to the new surge

I wasn't comparing it to the new surge but the old surge. I'm not saying the new surge is OP I'm saying the old surge was OP. Also strife hits every 2 seconds 25% of the damage done from using strife. You would never see Strife healing for 11,458 a tick ever.

You'd never see surge tick each time for that much either, that' just about limited to overload and frags, the rest doesn't heal for that much when it crits with surge.

Derra

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Strife ticks 3-4 times, doesn't require a crit to heal, crits for 15k damage in a good maelstrom setup and heals an ally or provides increased healing taken.

You picked the worst example to compare surge to, if you want to say surge is OP.

Strife is ridiculously OP compared to the new surge

I wasn't comparing it to the new surge but the old surge. I'm not saying the new surge is OP I'm saying the old surge was OP. Also strife hits every 2 seconds 25% of the damage done from using strife. You would never see Strife healing for 11,458 a tick ever.

Actually currently on the live server strife heals pretty regularly for 10k+ on my nightblade due to being albe to double crit.
That gets changed with DB the highest heal i´ve seen on the pts was ~6500.
Also strife heals you on every cast of the ability meaning you can get a heal every second.

Thanks for demonstrating that you have absolutely no idea what you´re talking about at all.

Lucky28

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel

this is such a horrible job you all have done on the sroc and worse yet, are you even listening to feedback?. why are we even testing *** on the PTS in this case?. i am thoroughly disappointed that i will more than likely have to wait another 4 months before you "get around" to fixing this disaster you have created with the sorcerer class.

this will weigh heavily on my decision to buy any future content in this game.

#signed a lost customer

Grao

This threads are all a useless waste of time. ZOS doesn't care and they will prove it on friday when @Wrobel answers Class Skill questions and ignore every sorcerer related question. They won't even be taking questions we've been asking here on the forum, according to @ZOS_GinaBruno...

So yay, we get further ignored...

Septimus_Magna

The idea for the new Surge isnt even that bad (especially for melee ranged stam sorcs).

The problem is the extremely low healing value, if the healing value is buffed sorcs will have a reliable self-heal as long as they keep landing crits.

Every other class has self-healing abilities so why shouldnt sorcs have one?

Erraln

Derra wrote: »

Maily directed @Erraln
Why is it ok for surge to not be sufficient as the only heal in the arena yet it´s ok on NB and Templar that funnel health (not even swallow morph) and puncturing sweeps + ritual are sufficient healing.
Why should sorc have to run more defense than other classes and also slot a resto staff for that purpose?

I didn't imply it to be, but I don't claim to know Zeni's intended self healing setups. The major complaint about Sorc defensive ability for the last year is that our offense stats fed it directly, and that seems to be what has been altered in DB. There is no mistaking these changes for anything but a nerf. My main drive to reply was centered on demonstrating the thought that the changes didn't ruin the class.

Something I didn't try was slotting Crit Surge for its increased HoT, Dark Exchange as the primary overheal, and Hardened Ward as primary defense on my back bar. That may have left me with no resto skills on my back bar, enabling swords and Overload if I felt like it. Seems like it might be worth a shot, I may try it this evening. Front bar defense in that case would probably be Harness Magicka, for sustain and the stack potential in a pinch. I only had 1 or 2 moments (that I remember) on that run where a Hardened + Healing ward stack was what kept me alive, but it did happen. When it happened though, R.Regen and Surge kept me from needing the burst heal portion of the skill.

Joy_Division wrote: »

My concern is not that a good sorcerer player will not be able to complete vMA or other high-end PvE content. Rather that good player can do so easier with more build flexibility by playing a different class. In my estimation, sorcerers were not over-performing in self-sustain to warrant that they alone of the three classes must make a greater effort in the DB update.

I might try this again because there is one factor that I have not accounted for - just not being used to surviving on a sorcerer with short duration shields sans burst Surge heals. However, if the question I keep asking myself is "Why does my sorcerer have to make sacrifices to overcome to the removal of her best tools, yet my templar does not have to?", my critique of the DB Sorcerer changes still stands.

Thanks for the response. I agree that your main points are still valid, I didn't come here to refute them. My kneejerk reaction to the changes was

Erraln wrote: »

Wow. It's like they said 'how can we simultaneously make this work for flurry, AND turn off magicka vMA easymode?'

after all.

I'm not sure that Sorcerer is less flexible, now. Just as DK has Magma Shell or Corrosive to get out of trouble with, we have Absorption Field. Just as they have chains or Take Flight, we have streak. Just as an NB or Templar have Funnel/Sweep, we have Surge and Blood Magic. Does it heal for quite as much? No, it doesn't seem to, but we also have Hardened Ward to give it time to do so, which they don't. It's true that they could cast Harness for that, but so can we, and get more from having both.

I can't really answer for you or for anybody, whether clearing with a Sorc is sufficiently harder now that it's better to use a different character. My other V16 is a MagDK, and I'm not proficient with him at vMA yet. That doesn't really give me a good basis to compare to, as looking at weekly and alltime leaderboards the competition seems to be Nightblade, followed by Templar. I do know that for the last six months though, the refrain has been 'just make a sorc' for vMA farming. It's an entrenched mindset, and it does have some accuracy. I wasn't even aware of some of the mechanics in there until I tried on my DK, ward and surge just kept them from troubling me at all. Is that over-performing? It may come close.

EDIT:

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The idea for the new Surge isnt even that bad (especially for melee ranged stam sorcs).

The problem is the extremely low healing value, if the healing value is buffed sorcs will have a reliable self-heal as long as they keep landing crits.

Every other class has self-healing abilities so why shouldnt sorcs have one?

Pretty much this right here. It's not the function, it's the strength.

Lucky28

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The idea for the new Surge isnt even that bad (especially for melee ranged stam sorcs).

The problem is the extremely low healing value, if the healing value is buffed sorcs will have a reliable self-heal as long as they keep landing crits.

Every other class has self-healing abilities so why shouldnt sorcs have one?

no it is bad. because it's a dull/boring change to the way the class plays. They could make it heal me for 10K a pop and i'd still prefer the surge on current live, because this change is boring.

i mean if stamina sorcs prefer this then at least leave power surge the way it is.

Joy_Division

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Its no more OP than any other ability that heals and does damage. You're trolling, right?

@Hadan_of_Rift

Wait what? Ok please enlighten me of other damage heals that 1) you can use another ability and still get a heal? 2) that heals for the amount that crit surge did?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Another person that never played a sorcerer in his life commenting about things he knows nothing at all about, good job making yourself look bad, lol.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't play a Sorc. I have 2 Sorcs; Stamina and Magicka, and Crit Surge was extremely OP, just like Overload is OP.

Just like any sane stamina 2-h player would admit Wrecking Blow was OP. It doesn't mean you don't take advantage of it, but it doesn't make it any less OP.

Is this a joke? Surge OP? For a 15K heal?

Xsorus

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Its no more OP than any other ability that heals and does damage. You're trolling, right?

@Hadan_of_Rift

Wait what? Ok please enlighten me of other damage heals that 1) you can use another ability and still get a heal? 2) that heals for the amount that crit surge did?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »

Thank you showing how OP Crit Surge was and why they needed to fix it. Sorry but I can't WB something for 25k and get 15k heal back I still just get the 1k heal tick. Strife heals 25% of damage done by its own damage not any other abilities damage.

I'm sorry your having an issue with the ridiculous OP ability, but it;s about time the fixed it. Now I'm waiting for the Overload fix.

Another person that never played a sorcerer in his life commenting about things he knows nothing at all about, good job making yourself look bad, lol.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't play a Sorc. I have 2 Sorcs; Stamina and Magicka, and Crit Surge was extremely OP, just like Overload is OP.

Just like any sane stamina 2-h player would admit Wrecking Blow was OP. It doesn't mean you don't take advantage of it, but it doesn't make it any less OP.

Is this a joke? Surge OP? For a 15K heal?

burning embers is a dot......it in no way compares to passively gaining a massive heal everytime ya crit with Crystal Frags