My PTS sorcerer experience in Maelstrom Arena: Surge & Shields

Joy_Division

******UPDATED******

TL;DR - The PTS Surge offer less healing per second than what's on Live and no burst heals. Couple with the lower duration on shields, I found net nerf to sorcerers problematic because in my estimation sorcerers were not superior to other classes. In my estimation, the surge heals are inadequate compared to self-healing capacity of other class. Most importantly, I did not have fun playing my sorcerer on the PTS. I believe ZoS should offer both versions of Surge, PTS and Live, as morphs and allow sorcerers to choose which one they prefer.

********

I am heavily editing the OP to incorporate more data and observations made on a completed PTS Maelstrom run that I did after writing it. Originally, I described the DB surge as "completely inadequate." I would amend that now to just "inadequate." In my OP, I spent considerable time describing the shortcomings of the Galerion's Revenge, which I used on my first attempt. For the sake of concision, I will condense my analysis of that set to a paragraph and then proceed to what matters most here.

I want to emphasize that I don't blame ZoS for being hesitant to take our feedback as much as we would like them since we rarely actually play the PTS; they might want to see how the DB changes perform in gameplay situations as opposed to the theorycrafting and mathematical formulas we throw at them. So I hopped into Vet Maelstrom Arena to play in a competitive setting with the new Sorcerer changes. I am on NA and thus stuck using ZoS's templates, but in my estimation 300 CPs are more than enough to get the most important passives down and the job done.

******Galerion's Revenge******

To put it simply, I got Rekt using this.

It's a nice idea put way too impractical.


How often do you actually get six basic attacks in on an opponent? Very few. Even in a purely single target setting like I use in vMA, adds die long before they get hit with six basic attacks (typically they only get hit with 2 or 3). And the burst is underwhelming:



4K. Without battlespirit.

Here is a parse against what should be an ideal target: a boss.



These results speak for themselves. This set is very poor performer compared to similar themed mechanics such as the NB skill Relentless Focus and the new Viper set. I honestly think this set needs a redesign. ZoS really ought to do something

******

I then tried the arena a second time with my usual Julianos set-up and, after more than three miserable hours, managed to beat it. I have the Flawless Conqueror achievement. I know what I am doing. On Live, it takes me a little more than an hour to do this. The difference was night and day. In my estimation, a few extra small percentages I lost from my Live champion points was not responsible for me dying so much. Rather it was due to the changes to the sorcerer on the PTS.

******Hardened Ward******

Precasting this and having it up by default, what I initially tried to do, is going to be a huge magicka drain. I eventually stopped doing this and used the shield as mostly a reactionary means to use only when I was in trouble. This, of course, was responsible for a number of annoying one shots and other assorted deaths such as this, what I haven't seen in a long, long time:



That being said, while the shorter duration was inconvenient, I would not place a lion's share of the responsibility for those two extra hours on the Hardened Ward nerf. I would agree with those who contend this is a "L2P" issue. With more a bit more tactical adeptness in using them and a noticeably expenditure of magicka, sorcerers can replicate most of the benefit they derive from shields in content like vMA. Potentially, if the sorcerer knows the content well enough to cast it immediately before incoming spike damage. Hardened Ward cannot always be "on." Until that foresight is acquired, sorcerers are now basically templars without Puncturing Sweeps ... and Purifying Ritual, Major Mending, and Breath of Life.

I could live with the nerf to duration ... if I got something in return. I didn't. What "tank" or survival abilities do sorcerer have - and need - now that they are just like every other class in that they no longer have a long duration shield? Streak? The only skill in the game the user is penalized for spamming? A "second" shield? Not buying this is a huge advantage since other classes can simply recast their own once it is busted. And ... what exactly? Rune prison? The toolkit for vMA looks rather bare for sorcerers when I think of what the other three classes can do. As it is right now ... how many top sorcerer tanks are out there clearing Vet MOL?

I don't quite buy the many statements that have been floated around on these PTS forums that sorcerers are "ruined" for PvE because in grouped instances, sorcerers don't need shields, heals, and all that other stuff because they have group-mates whose actual function is to provide that stuff. And quite frankly, the default open world difficulty of this game is anything but difficult. It is more accurate to say when the sorcerer is forced to rely on its own tools for survival it is (now) lacking. And it certainly is less enjoyable. Mostly due to the last major change to sorcerers in this PTS that I find the most dubious...

******Surge******

What is the purpose of the surge ability? It's a legitimate question. Because if the answer to that question is: "allow sorcerers to passively heal/sustain themselves and do DPS at the same time (ala NB funnel health, templar puncturing sweeps, DK inhale, etc.)," then it has failed in that function ever since the 1.6 patch. The IC patch made this ability better by reducing the cooldown time and extending the duration such that it could sort of work - provided a wounded sorcerer had a large shield up (hardened ward) and surge allowed for a burst heal.

Now with a six second ward and working with just a flat modest heal, sorcerers are going to have to rethink their strategy for doing vMA and staying alive on their own in general. And this isn't the "fun" rethinking as in I can't wait to test some new exciting things. Rather it is akin to getting dumped by a underwear model and then going on a blind date with someone with a "nice personality."

This is gone:


Maybe non-sorcerers are saying good riddance. I am not sure why they think it is OK for their heals to scale off the damage they do and not sorcerers, but whatever, they are entitled to their own opinion. I'm also not exactly sure what I as a sorcerer am supposed to do using this ultimate that does not allow me to use a restoration staff. I repeat the question: if we are going to take this away from the sorcerer's tool kit, what is replacing it? Are sorcerers really expected to take a specific morph of a pet that must be on all three bars (even though it is not a toggle) and keep it alive through all vMA's one-shot mechanics?

And it's not Overload specific. Look at this:


Two things going on here. A crystal frag proc heal served as the sorcerer's burst heal. This cannot happen anymore. Also look at the top few lines, when I received a surge heal from a weaved heavy attack (for more than the flat amount on the PTS) and from the crushing shock that hit afterward. Because of the global cooldown of one second being put into the PTS, the ability to proc multiple heals within a second will also be gone. So not only are sorcerers losing burst healing, they are losing instances of healing period.

Zenimax changed three crucial components to Surge. On Live, the heal is scaled off damage so the harder you hit the higher the heal. On the PTS, it is a flat value. On Live, Surge has a internal cooldown, but it is a fraction of a second and thus allows for Sorcerers to gain a rapid succession of heals. On the PTS, it's limited to one per second. On Live, Surge only procs on direct damage, i.e., no DoTs. On the PTS, DoT can proc heals. In short, theoretically easier to get a steady stream of modest heals to compensate for the loss of occasional big bursts on heal.

In practice, less healing overall and the lack of burst heals compelled me to fundamentally change my build and play-style so I would not die when at low health.

Here are three parses on bosses comparing Healing on Live to that of the PTS.

Live Lamia Queen:


PTS Lamia Queen:


Live's healing is greater even though I'm not using mutagen.

Live Argonian Behemoth:


PTS Argonian Behemoth:


Again, inferior healing even with Mutagen.

Live Valkyn Tephra:


PTS Valkyn Tephra:


Surge Heals Per Second are less than half what I'm getting from Live:

Here are the results comparing all the Surge heals from each boss fight (except the last as my parse was only from the last 30 seconds). HPS = Heals Per Second

Boss 1:

• PTS: 914 HPS. 2,708 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 1,665 HPS. 4,940 Avg. 11,592 Max. 82% HPS increase.

Boss 2:

• PTS: 1,319 HPS. 2,946 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 1,831 HPS. 5,138 Avg. 16,693 Max. 39% HPS increase.

Boss 3:

• PTS: 1,039 HPS. 2,797 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 1,726 HPS. 5,421 Avg. 11,458 Max. 66% HPS increase.

Boss 4:

• PTS: 1,191 HPS. 2,733 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 2,069 HPs. 4,914 Avg. 16,126 Max. 73% HPS increase.

Boss 5:

• PTS: 1,243 HPS. 2,872 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 1,681 HPS. 3,732 Avg. 11,592 Max. 35% HPS increase.

Boss 6:

• PTS: 1,285 HPS. 2,843 Avg. 3,275 Max
• Live: 1,440 HPS. 3,414 Avg. 11,512 Max. 12% HPS increase.

Boss 7:

• PTS: 914 HPS. 2,849 Avg. 4,092 Max.
• Live: 2,127 HPS. 4,528 Avg. 11,263 Max. 133% HPS increase.

Boss 8:

• PTS: 1,206 HPS. 2,902 Avg. 3,275 Max.
• Live: 2,545 HPS. 4,794 Avg. 17,467 Max. 111% HPS increase.

Those results are consistent across the board. Something else to keep in mind. In order to maximize the PTS Surge, it is going to be necessary to alter you build to include DoTs (which sorcerers are bad at), which means taking away from your few non toggle skills you actually do want to run. Coupled with the restoration staff I felt compelled to use (so no dual swords) and another slot for Mutugen) meant I was devoting a noticeably more amount of time, resources, and opportunity costs just to self sustain myself. If the results were comparable to Live, I could better accept this but my sorcerer was in every way worse: more magicka and casts used to sustain myself and still the healing wasn't as good, which amounted less time DPSing a target on a build that already made sacrifices to its damage output. On Live, the fight against the Argonian Behemoth lasted 2 minutes, 40 seconds and on the PTS the same fight took 3 minutes, 35 seconds..

No doubt Zenimax's goal for surge was consistency and, looking at my chart it is difficult to argue that it was not successful in this respect. But at what cost? Yes, on the PTS I could count on roughly 1100 HPS, but on Live even if my healing fluctuated, it was always superior. Significantly I can get that better healing on a build that I actually wanted to run, that I felt complemented the way I want to play. I didn't feel forced to take a particular skill or use a specific weapon.

Something else to consider. It would be logical to speculate that the sorcerer's Overload ultimate is artificially inflating the amount of healing Surge is doing on Live. I do not think that is necessary true. Here is my parse against Maxus the Many in which I did nothing but Overload him:

Here is the DPS:


And the Heals:


2,158 HPS. 4,089 Avg. 13,527 Max. These numbers are outright superior to every single parse (which I was heavily using Overload) except boss 8, which I would say is inflated because I used the Power Sigil and spent 30 seconds standing still nuking down targets that could not fight back.

And if you are not a sorcerer and are under the belief that the current Surge is too strong, I suggest you take a closer look at your own self-healing capacity. I'm not going to even get into templars who are for all intents and purposes invulnerable when spamming Sweeps against multiple targets. Even Dragonknights, which are noted for their tankiness and ability to shrug off damage - outright avoid it with Reflective Scales - is better suited to DPS and self heal than sorcerers.



That's 3K HPS from skills that DPS+heal in a fight where I spent a lot of time idling waiting for the boss to stop swimming underwater. And I did not even use major mending, which DKs have easy access to.

The belabored point being made here is the PTS change to surge offers nowhere near the amount of healing and sustain potential as does the one on Live. In conjunction with the reduction of shield duration, a sorcerer trying to rely on this ability to sustain themselves in a competitive situation without the aid of other players is going to be a frustrating change.

******Why I don't Like the PTS Surge******

I do not think ZoS intended surge to be nerfed. I think the change was motivated with the aim of provide a more reliable, steady stream of healing since ZoS removed the big bursts and allowed small DoTs to proc the moderate healing the skill provides. In theory the sorcerer could still receive healing while doing something else besides attacking, such as reapplying their shields (which they will have to do a lot next patch).

Here are the problems I have.

• How was this flat number determined? Flat numbers are bad because they are not related to the organic numbers generated by the game. Look at the other heal+DPS skills in the game, they are connected to each other so that way the heals always keep pace even though with every patch, the damage numbers people pull off increase. If you believe ZoS will spend the time to adjust the surge amount, go ask Dragonknights about their experience with the Dragon's Blood ability.
• Sorcerer damage is direct and all about burst. The changes to surge skill are completely counter-intuitive to how sorcerers are played. Great, DoTs proc the heal. Now, where are the Sorcerer's DoTs? The alleged "it's a DoT just with all the damage at the end skill" Daedric Curse? That skill that is no longer modified by thaumaturge (which is supposed to increase DoT damage)? That same skill that would only proc surge once even though it lasts for more than three seconds? Lightning Flood which many enemies in vMA (and all PvP opponents) will move out of? The Burning status effect we can rarely get because of the changes to how destruction staffs work? The unproductive 200 cost ultimate Storm Atronach? I would much prefer the surge skill to modify those damage skills I actually use.
• Exactly what is the sorcerer supposed to do when low on health? Surge is basically at best mutagen ... without the burst heal at low health. If I wanted this sort of heal option ... why wouldn't I just use mutagen? Why was it necessary to rework a skill that, for its flaws, still kind of worked? OK, I get it, carry around a restoration staff like every other class. Fine. If I am forced to use a restoration staff to sustain myself in the first place, I ask again: What is the purpose of the surge ability? If a sorcerer is at low health in vMA with the Overload skill active, they are going to die because a possible 2K heal per second will not outpace the incoming damage and thus will force a sorc to keep reapplying hardened ward.

I will agree and indeed have been saying since 1.6 that a double stacking long-duration shields scaling off magicka was broken for sorcerers. But the solution is not to give every class a strong shield. And if it is deemed necessary to put an end to the 24-7-365 hardened warded sorcerer, fine, but the class needs something to replace the durability that is being taken away. Without precasted shields, a sorcerer will in essence have to play like a templar or DK and use Hardened Ward as a reactive means to enemy threats. Except: sorcerers do not have Major Mending, Purifying Ritual, Breath of Life, Inhale, Reflective Scales, Burning Embers, or Puncturing Sweeps - all excellent sustain skills that are effective enough to keep these classes alive without a precasted shield. The only skill sorcerers have that I would put in that category is Daedric Mines. If using a precasted shield is impractical, I am going to elect to play a class that has been designed to play without one. ZoS has taketh, but not giveth.

I am not saying that a sorcerer can no longer compete in ESO or that the class is dead. I am saying that the changes to shields + surge represent a net nerf to the class, one that in my estimation was not justified because I do not believe that sorcerers are superior to NBs, Templars, and DKs. I did finished vMA of the PTS sorcerer so it can be done, but I found myself having to use skills and make accommodations to the arbitrary mechanics of surge (flat number, 1 second cooldown, no burst), soemthing that is in my opinion bad game design. In short, it is still possible to play a sorcerer, but in an instance where it must rely on its own for self-sustain, I found the experience frustrating and not fun. Thus, when the DB patch is released, I will opt to play a class that is better designed to so.

******Counterpoints and What I think ZoS should do******

Other players have followed my example and have done vMA on the PTS. Some of them disagree with my analysis and pointed out that there are advantages to the new surge model and that it, in fact, made some fights easier in their estimation. I'm not going to debate them on this matter because playing ESO is in my estimation more about having a comfort level with your build and adopting your play-style to it. The new surge may very well be better suited for how they play. It would be folly for me to insist otherwise.

All I can say is that I have the Flawless Conqueror achievement so I'm not exactly a noob with the sorcerer and in my perspective, the difficulty spike was noticeable for me. I was not hard headed and ran my Live build. I used a restoration staff to supplement the live heals, ensured I had multiple DoTs active to ensure Surge heals were on cooldown, eventually switched the harness magicka to allay the greater resource drain, and adapted a more conservative approach. I did not find it fun. In my view, this was not a parallel or horizontal change, that is, having the same relative level of effectiveness by using different abilities and strategies.

I personally find sorcerers to be a deeply flawed class, the most so of the four IMHO, something that Overloading bosses and shield stacking in PvP have masked. I have just as much play-time on my templar and DK to have a grasp of the survivability and self-sustain of classes that do not have a pre-casted 20K hardened ward and in my estimation the PTS sorcerer is far enough beneath them to be overly frustrating. For PvP, since I can still shield stack and drop Negates, I think I will be fine since I already use a restoration staff there. But PvE? It was boring enough to have my DPS be dependent on toggles and a specific ultimate. If I have to rely on my own for sustain and heals, I'll pass when the DB launches.

Now, that is my opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean it is correct and it most certainly should not be forced upon those who believe differently. So, what I think ZoS should do is provide both versions of Surge in the DB update. Why do both have to have the same function? We shouldn't have to debate and fight which is preferable, just let us players choose the one that we feel complements our build better. So this is how I would rework this skill:

• Have the base skill Surge offer both Major Brutality and Major Sorcery. I never thought it made any sense for the base version to offer just Major Brutality. Doing so is overly restrictive and limits precisely this sort of opportunity to allow us the option of picking the type of self-healing that we prefer. Critical Strikes still heal for 40%.
• Morph 1: The PTS version. It restores a flat value of health based on your Weapon or Spell Critical whichever is higher. It will also proc on any Critical Strike instead of only direct damage, but can only restore health once every second.
• Morph 2: The Live version. It provides healing based on a percentage of damage inflicted by Critical Strikes, excepting damage over time effects. It has a cooldown of 100 milliseconds

Such a change would allow all sorcerers now have the choice as to what morph they prefer, rather than have it be imposed on them by ZoS, me, or anyone else who has strong opinions regarding this topic.

Archmage1

ZOS, you seriously need to work on Sorcs ASAP! How can you make these drastic changes with DB DLC? Completely uncalled for. Please, for the sake of this game's health, do something.

Erock25

Great post. I saw it and was like damn we don't need ANOTHER sorc post, but this is pure gold. Great job and I hope ZOS takes notice.

dagonbeer

Excellent post Joy. Let's hope the devs take notice.

Mush55

Because and this is my thought on the situation, they want us to use pets and thats your heal sorted, never mind the ward nerf that means they will die even quicker now due to being stupid.

Glad my mage blade is up to v15 because I cant honestly see me playing my sorc after the dlc..

Ajax_22

Good read Joy. I'm glad someone took the time to show ZOS exactly what our theorycrafting and math is telling us, using pictures and play experience. Unfortunately I don't think it will have any impact. Wrobel seems dead set on making this particular change to Surge.

code65536

@Joy_Division

Thank you for confirming with solid data what we knew would happen with these changes.

As for the Galerion set, a way to fix it would be to make it function more like the nightblade's Grim Focus: 6 basic attacks on any target will proc the effect on the target that receives the 6th attack.

paget4444

Excellent way to sum up these horrendous changes @Joy_Division!

Honestly i was hoping for an actual fix to the surge issue, one that has seen several mediocre attempts at balancing it. This skill has been on a down slope since IC and has been in parallel with sorcerer effectiveness also down sloping. Crazy idea, leave surge and its morphs alone at being able to heal for a % based number, on any critical with a 0.1 sec cool down; Or, heal for (again) a % based number, on direct attacks with a 1 second cool down. Without a cap on the healing possible, both of these options are completely viable and will scale directly with the damage the sorcerer can produce, as it should, as every other classes "damage + heals" skill works.

As far as the damage shields go, i can "somewhat" see why there is so much crying about sorcerer shield stacking using 3 shield skills, but the fix isn't this cool down that completely maims sorcerer magicka management. There is NO other option for durability, particularly in solo PvE, and even group PvE during those oh-**** moments that always end in either a party wipe or bad*** comeback. Sorcerers without these shields become so squishy they aren't even fun to play against in PvP, yes the shields are still there, but needed to reapply them so often keeps sorcerers from actually attacking and drains their magicka so quickly, if the fight lasts longer than 20 seconds, sorcs lose.

I've played as a shield stacking sorcerer, and I've fought them in PvP, they are not invincible with those long lasting shields, they are a challenge, EXACTLY who I WANT to fight.

Please, leave the shields alone, make surge usable again, and lets move on.....

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

<snip>
If you believe ZoS will spend the time to adjust the surge amount, go ask Dragonknights about their experience with the Dragon's Blood ability.
...
And if DKs have these feelings...<snip>

I have feelings! Real ones!


RE: the actual point of the thread. Good synopsis. Sorc class needs some attention across the board.

Tyrannitar

Joy_Division wrote: »

TL;DR - Better get your achievement(s) on your sorcerer before the Dark Brotherhood patch launches.

We often say ZoS doesn't listen to our feedback. Accuse them of ignoring us. Claim they don't play their game.

Maybe they think, perhaps with some justification, that since we rarely actually play the PTS, they want to see how the DB changes perform in gameplay situations as opposed to the theorycrafting and mathematical formulas we throw at them. So I hopped into Vet Maelstrom Arena to play in a competitive setting with the new Sorcerer changes. I am on NA and thus stuck using ZoS's templates, but in my estimation 300 CPs are more than enough to get the most important passives down and the job done.

I went in with the new Galerion's Revenge set to see how it performed along with the new critical surge and the new shields. And: I got Rekt! I had 8 or 9 deaths by the time of the Third Stage boss (the strangler round with the Lamia queen) and knew proceeding further would just be an exercise in frustration so I didn't. I have the Flawless Conqueror achievement. I know what I am doing. I then logged onto Live to make sure I just wasn't having a bad day. Rolled my sorcerer into the arena straight from PvP and proceeded to clear the first three stages with zero deaths in about fifteen minutes.

My analysis why I kept dying on the PTS:

The Galerion's Revenge set, while intriguing in theory, is very impractical in that it is too difficult to capitalize on the 5th set bonus, thus rendering its purpose nearly moot. I can hardly blame ZoS for not anticipating this as I saw the set and legitimately wanted to use it. But this is the problem with theorycrafting, it does not allow for us to see how things actually play out in a competitive setting.



How often do you actually get six basic attacks in on an opponent? Very few. Trash is AoEd down. Even in a purely single target setting like I use in vMA, adds die long before they get hit with six basic attacks (typically they only get hit with 2 or 3). Players in PvP? Not very often outside of duels, and even then, do you really think that this "burst" damage is actually going to do anything?



4K. Without battlespirit.

That's less damage I take from a single hit of crushing shock. The only value this comes into play is against high health targets you use a DPS rotation on: Bosses. So this means the 5th bonus is rarely actually being used. And even against bosses, its performance is lackluster:



I managed to get 2 procs over the course of that fight. In vMA, you have to switch targets (stranglers!) and can't just use a DPS rotation as you must heal, move, shield. So two procs and 111 DPS for a 5th set bonus. It's way too conditional and the proc is poor. No thanks. I am going to use a good 5th piece bonus like Julianos that is always "on" and modifies everything I do (i.e. heals) against every target. Save your Tel Var stones.

Suggestion for fix: Look to the NB skill Relentless Focus, which just about all NBs use. Why? It actually does something even without the burst damage. And that something is pretty good: 8% damage buff from minor brutality and stamina regeneration to boot. Also, it was determined that the initial condition of procs was so high (I forget, was it 8? 6?), that the burst damage was hardly used and so was reduced. Them there are at sets such as the new Viper, just one melee hit every 4 seconds and BOOM! - 8k damage. I honestly think this set needs a redesign. Viper is so easy to trigger and this so hard. It would be more appealing as a "revenge" set if the set somehow benefited the wearer from being damaged from specific enemies.

******

The six second duration of Hardened Ward was usually not responsible for me dying. It was, however, responsible for draining my magicka pool. It's been a long, long time since I've seen this pop up in vMA:



That's going to happen until sorcerers get used to the shorter duration. Preventable, but with a greater expenditure of magicka ... noticeably greater.

I used a *lot* more magicka clearing the first three stages - the easy ones - on the PTS than I did on Live. My regen and cost reduction on the PTS were similar to on Live. As I understand, ability costs are roughly 10% more. And no doubt, the amount of magicka I had to waste just to survive (more on that below) was absolutely higher. That being said, this was an unsettling. My sorcerer is now, basically, my templar without Puncturing Sweeps ... and Purifying Ritual, Major Mending, and Breath of Life.

I could live with the nerf to duration ... if I got something in return. I didn't. What "tank" or survival abilities do sorcerer have - and need - now that they are just like every other class in that they no longer have a long duration shield? Streak? The only skill in the game the user is penalized for spamming? A "second" shield? Not buying this is a huge advantage since other classes can simply recast their own once it is busted. And ... what exactly? Rune prison? The toolkit for vMA looks rather bare for sorcerers when I think of what the other three classes can do. As it is right now ... how many top sorcerer tanks are out there clearing Vet MOL?

I don't quite buy the many statements that have been floated around on these PTS forums that sorcerers are "ruined" for PvE because in grouped instances, sorcerers don't need shields, heals, and all that other stuff because they have group-mates whose actual function is to provide that stuff. And quite frankly, the default open world difficulty of this game is anything but difficult. It is more accurate to say when the sorcerer is forced to rely on its own tools for survival it is (now) lacking. And it certainly is less enjoyable. Mostly due to the last major change to sorcerers in this PTS that I find the most dubious...

*********

Surge

What is the purpose of the surge ability? It's a legitimate question. Because if the answer to that question is: "allow sorcerers to passively heal/sustain themselves and do DPS at the same time (ala NB funnel health, templar puncturing sweeps, DK inhale, etc.)," then it has failed in that function ever since the 1.6 patch. The IC patch made this ability better by reducing the cooldown time and extending the duration such that it could sort of work - provided a wounded sorcerer had a large shield up (hardened ward) and surge allowed for a burst heal.

Now with a six second ward and working with just a flat modest heal, sorcerers are going to have to rethink their strategy for doing vMA and staying alive on their own in general. And this isn't the "fun" rethinking as in I can't wait to test some new exciting things. Rather it is akin to getting dumped by a underwear model and then going on a blind date with someone with a "nice personality."

This is gone:


Maybe non-sorcerers are saying good riddance. I am not sure why they think it is OK for their heals to scale off the damage they do and not sorcerers, but whatever, they are entitled to their own opinion. I'm also not exactly sure what I as a sorcerer am supposed to do using this ultimate that does not allow me to use a restoration staff. I repeat the question: if we are going to take this away from the sorcerer's tool kit, what is replacing it? Are sorcerers really expected to take a specific morph of a pet that must be on all three bars (even though it is not a toggle) and keep it alive through all vMA's one-shot mechanics?

And it's not Overload specific. Look at this:


Two things going on here. A crystal frag proc heal served as the sorcerer's burst heal. This cannot happen anymore. Also look at the top few lines, when I received a surge heal from a weaved heavy attack (for more than the flat amount on the PTS) and from the crushing shock that hit afterward. Because of the global cooldown of one second being put into the PTS, the ability to proc multiple heals within a second will also be gone. So not only are sorcerers losing burst healing, they are losing instances of healing period.

On Live, here is a healing parse during the third stage:


Surge HPS 1,200. Average: 3,150. Max: 10,200. Again look at the log, constant heals flowing in from a rapid succession of critical hits. Wasn't a boss fight so Overload was hardly used.

Here is another parse:


Here is the kicker. As good as this version of surge sounds, it pales in comparison to the amount of heals+DPS a templar, a NB, and even a DK can do. These three classes can outheal any non-one shot damage vMA throws them with their respective skills that DPS and heal at the same time. These class do *not* need shields for vMA because their sustain skills are good enough to survive without them. Now they are getting the same shields as sorcerers ... and sorcerers own crit+DPS skill is losing a lot of its effectiveness? It doesn't add up.

Here is what you get from surge on the PTS.

First Boss: He actually killed me on my first attempt: Without the Overload burst heals, it isn't easy to use that ultimate since you don't have a restoration staff. This was the parse when I did defeat him:


It's hard for me to believe the FTC report of 211 Heal Per Second, however, I was desperate enough to use the Healing Sigal on the first boss! I certainly was not getting a lot of healing - look at this snip from the combat log again:


Surge proced only twice when he was hit with 5 attacks and felt desperate enough to actually roll dodge ... with the healing sigal active.

Here is the parse from Maxus fight on Live



Here is a failed attempt at the Lamia Queen.

[/URL]

I'm only do 4k DPS! I'm spending so much time (and resources) just trying not to die. I hope people won't cite blood magic as a reliable source of sorcerer healing...

Another Lamia attempt:



Compared to Live (this parse included the last part of the mini-boss round before, so the DPS is actually higher than 10K, and the HPS is higher as well.)


The belabored point being made here is the PTS change to surge offers nowhere near the amount of healing and sustain potential as does the one on Live. In conjunction with the reduction of shield duration, a sorcerer trying to rely on this ability to sustain themselves in a competitive situation without the aid of other players is going to be a frustrating change.

********

I can only guess the intent of the Surge skill PTS change was to allow for it to provide a more reliable, steady stream of healing since ZoS removed the big bursts and allowed small DoTs to proc the moderate healing the skill provides. In theory the sorcerer could still receive healing while doing something else besides attacking, such as reapplying their shields (which they will have to do a lot next patch).

Here is the problem. Demonstrated by actually playing rather than theory-crafting.

• How was this flat number determined? Flat numbers are bad because they are not related to the organic numbers generated by the game. Look at the other heal+DPS skills in the game, they are connected to each other so that way the heals always keep pace even though with every patch, the damage numbers people pull off increase. If you believe ZoS will spend the time to adjust the surge amount, go ask Dragonknights about their experience with the Dragon's Blood ability.
• Sorcerer damage is direct and all about burst. The changes to surge skill are completely counter-intuitive to how sorcerers are played. Great, DoTs proc the heal. Now, where are the Sorcerer's DoTs? The alleged "it's a DoT just with all the damage at the end skill" Daedric Curse? That skill that is no longer modified by thaumaturge (which is supposed to increase DoT damage)? That same skill that would only proc surge once even though it lasts for more than three seconds? Lightning Flood which many enemies in vMA (and all PvP opponents) will move out of? The Burning status effect we can rarely get because of the changes to how destruction staffs work? The unproductive 200 cost ultimate Storm Atronach? I would much prefer the surge skill to modify those damage skills I actually use.
• Exactly what is the sorcerer supposed to do when low on health? Surge is basically at best mutagen ... without the burst heal at low health. If I wanted this sort of heal option ... why wouldn't I just use mutagen? Why was it necessary to rework a skill that, for its flaws, still kind of worked? OK, I get it, carry around a restoration staff like every other class. Fine. If I am forced to use a restoration staff to sustain myself in the first place, I ask again: What is the purpose of the surge ability? If a sorcerer is at low health in vMA with the Overload skill active, they are going to die because a possible 2K heal per second will not outpace the incoming damage and thus will force a sorc to keep reapplying hardened ward.

At this point here, many people are probably thinking to themselves why should they shed a tear for the "easy mode" vMA class or it's about time sorcs stop being a noob class and actually require "skill" to play. People are entitled to that opinion, but I would say that attitude is, to put it as politely and mildly as possible, a poor one. And if DKs have these feelings, shame on them. Just because one class got smashed by the ZoS nerfhammer doesn't mean the way to patch the game moving forward is to eviscerate the core elements of what classes depend on and then failing to offer viable, let alone fun, alternatives.

I will agree and indeed have been saying since 1.6 that a double stacking long-duration shields scaling off magicka was broken for sorcerers. But the solution is not to give every class a strong shield. And if it is deemed necessary to put an end to the 24-7-365 hardened warded sorcerer, fine, but the class needs something to replace the durability that is being taken away. I know what it's like to play a class designed to survive without shields and I do not find the argument that sorcerers simply need to "git gud" compelling. It does not take exceptional skill for a templar to stand inside purifying ritual spamming puncturing sweeps and just not die.

On Live without the well-meaninged but terrible performing Galerion's Revenge set, I know I would do better. I also recognized by the time I quit, sorcerer gameplay would have to be reversed in that the default situation would be for a sorcerer to *not* have a shield active or else too much magicka would be wasted. With my actual sorcerer, decent gear, and recognition of the changes, with a little practice I'm pretty sure I can get through these three stages without dying.

But I'm not buying I was struggling because of crap gear or a failure to adjust to the new sorcerer reality of tactical shield casting and moderate surge heals. The fact of the matter it is more difficult for a sorcerer to complete this content on the PTS, but the same cannot be said for the other classes. Without precasted shields, a sorcerer will in essence have to play like a templar or DK and use Hardened Ward as a reactive means to enemy threats. Except: sorcerers do not have Major Mending, Purifying Ritual, Breath of Life, Inhale, Reflective Scales, Burning Embers, or Puncturing Sweeps - all excellent sustain skills that are effective enough to keep these classes alive without a precasted shield. The only skill sorcerers have that I would put in that category is Daedric Mines. If using a precasted shield is impractical, I am going to elect to play a class that has been designed to play without one. In short, I'm not going to bang my head against the wall dealing with a nerf just to have my sorcerer complete vMA when I know can simply log my templar and breeze through the arena (indeed, it will actually be easier next patch with Ritual of Retribution). ZoS has taketh, but not giveth.

*******

The Points:

• The Galerion Set is so conditional that it's 5th set bonus, already lackluster, will rarely be actually used. I really don't think just making it proc off say 3 light attacks would make this set compelling since all it is doing is modest damage to a single specific target.
• The sorcerer shield duration does not so much impact a sorcerer's PvE survivability as it does their magicka pool. I dislike the change to shields in general as it is homogenization. I dislike the change specifically to sorcerers because all I see is a flat nerf without an attractive alternative or buff in others areas as recompense.
• The changes to surge may be well intended, but are extremely problematic in actual gameplay. The inclusion of DoTs in no way increases the number of actual procs a sorcerer will get with the one second global cooldown and the removal of burst heals is directly contrary to the means in which sorcerers do damage (aside from current meta which vastly favors burst over sustain). Less healing all around: the procs are smaller and fewer in number.

What I dislike most about the DB PTS changes is that even if I was determined to adapt and play more "skillfully," this would not be a parallel or horizontal change, that is, having the same relative level of effectiveness by using different abilities and strategies. Sorcerers on the DB have weaker tools at their disposal and I do not believe their all around performance vis-à-vis the other classes in ESO warranted the net nerf they have to eat. On the contrary, sorcerers are a deeply flawed class, the most so of the four IMHO, something that Overloading bosses and shield stacking in PvP have masked. I do not think it's good policy or sense just to slap a nerf on a class and tell players to just deal with it and condescendingly tell them now skill is required.

I played the first three rounds on PTS and the difference is night and day. I find it hard to believe the PTS template or the Galerion set is *that* bad. I am fortunate the my sorcerer isn't my "main" and do not have a strong attachment to it outside of playing with some specific friends in PvP. I suppose since I can still shield stack and drop Negates, it will be fine in Cyrodiil. But PvE? It was boring enough to have my DPS be dependent on toggles and a specific ultimate. If I have to rely on my own for sustain and heals, I'll pass when the DB launches.

OP: I love you.

I'm going to make a stam sorc feedback very similar to the format of this one soon. This is amazing. Good work.

zerosingularity

The reason why Surge heals are nerfed is because Dark Conversion or whatever that crap skill got buffed for the health return.

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Yeah, that skill is garbage because of the cast time, so it DOES NOT compensate for the lack of heals. Maybe if the new Surge had a .5 second cooldown, and scaled with our actual spellpower/max magicka it might be better. (It should be able to be on average 2k-4k HPS on any fight where the Sorc is aggressive, without extreme difficulty for it to be useful as a heal skill.)

Looks like my Sorc will have to be on pause in DB, thankfully I have a stamblade, which is getting buffed, so I have something else to play.

Lucky28

Great post @Joy_Division

basically my feeling on the changes to sorc. i played around with it on PTS and determined this class is not fun to play anymore they probably changed Surge for PvP as percentage heals weren't doing great in PvP however, i wish they would keep surge as it is and work on how battle Spirit effects percentage heals even if i have to wait till next patch, this change (even if they buff the heal you get from surge and make it heal for more then on live) is boring from a gameplay perspective.

the sorc is just very boring and not effective in any capacity on the PTS. @ZOS_GinaBruno please for the love of god revert these changes.

Gilliamtherogue

Thanks for some legitimate testing on the PTS, it's quite rare to see players doing meaningful testing and also sharing the information on it.

A few things however;

Does Galerion's Revenge's 5 piece explosion does AoE damage, or just single target? In vMA I agree it is quite useless as most mobs are not hardy enough for this set to gain any real value, but in areas with higher HP targets this could be an extremely niche (and likely still lack luster) it might not be all too bad. I didn't get around to testing it when the NA copies were on, I was far too busy with other testing.

The duration on ward and all shields has left me in an in between state, while I despise the toxicity of damage shields and their ability to stack, I also understand the duality of importance between PvE and PvP. In PvE damage shields do not save you from poor play completely, but they do buffer your ability to stay on the offensive or recuperate from bad RNG or personal mistakes. In vMA and vMoL especially, damage shields are the only line of defense many meta builds have against the absurd new mechanics ZoS has implimented, such as 8-12k basic attacks from mobs or untelegraphed mechanics such as Void Sphere (Rakhaat) or Ice Breath (round 5 Mages). In PvE there are moments where experience and well timed guesses/intuition can help you, knowing the wind up time on enemy animations and whatnot, but other times you are given NO reaction time to mechanics, so keeping up Harness or Ward as a buffer is a must. Now with a 6 second duration, this will be impossible, as you cannot be expected to keep up the shield 24/7, as that places heavy DPS via operational costs, as well as stressed resources. The only way now for some instances, is if you can see into the future and know when that randomly targeted mechanic will hit you 2 or 3 times and kill you, so you can apply your shield in a small window. I understand the balance change reasoning for cutting the duration on shields, and by principle I agree with it, but I know that it doesn't only affect PvP. The duration on ward and all shields (with the exception of Healing Ward, for obvious reasons) should be increased while in Non Player interactions, or else we're going to see a meta shift where everyone stacks health again so they can avoid mechanics that instantly kill players. This is extremely bad for the game, as it promotes shoddy game play and lazy problem solving. By taking away one of the very few options PvE'rs have to deal with absurd damage mechanics that lack proper counter play, you have effectively killed the Risk Reward mechanic and smart play by promoting HP stacking instead.

As for Surge, I also agree with the changes by principle, there NEEDED to be a nerf. Currently Surge offers far too much survability with little to no operational costs on Live. It provides your major source of damage buff, a long duration, passive damage for slotting, and FREE healing. I have soloed legions of mobs by doing nothing but keeping up this buff and spamming one AoE ability, and I didn't have to think while I did it. There is no dynamic gameplay with this skill at the moment, you don't have to do anything special. You simply do as you normally do, and you get free healing. Meanwhile all other classes have to run specific abilities with low efficiency.

Here are some examples of spells with an offensive+healing nature;

Funnel health, heals for damage dealt, promotes high damage builds and has a low cost, but the ability itself is weaker than other spammable offensive skills such as Force Pulse or Concealed Weapon, thus making it a choice skill, not a one size fits all.

Sap Essence scales with targets hit with healing, makes you focus environmental advantages where you can cluster enemies rather than casting freely. High cost means you can't afk spam this without running other resource management sources.

Puncturing Sweeps; Locks you in animation, leaving you vulnerable. Forces you to keep up the offensive since it only heals as you deal damage. Makes you cluster mobs and position yourself to maximize number of targets hit. Also forces player into melee range with a melee unfriendly build (low armor ratings, low mobility, etc..)

Burning Embers; a heal that only triggers once the effect ends or is recasted, scales based on damage done. Promotes high damage builds so the heal is more effective, but cannot be spammed without suffering greatly in efficiency. Spamming may give you a heal back each time you cast, but since the damage it deals is over time your DPS will suffer greatly, and you will be healed for smaller amounts. Forces melee on a squishy/low mobility build.

Leeching Strikes; Heals per attack (non DoT's only), but forces player to trade off a significant damage portion. Scales with % resource pools, promoting players to spec specifically into resources rather than flat damage.

On top of these, aside from Burning Embers, on PTS NONE of these abilities can crit heal anymore, they simply heal a based on a % of damage dealt. If the damage crits, then the heal is bigger, but on live if the damage crits, the HEAL can crit too, almost doubling the effectiveness of these abilities. This is no longer the case.

HOWEVER, that being said, I also agree with you that flat values are absolutely horrendous and do not belong at all in these circumstances. This does not promote any tailored game play, and instead provides a flat rate to any build that promotes homogenization of speccing, rather than diversifying into specific roles. On top of this, it now becomes a completely lack luster skill as a healing option, which was much needed for the class, as they have no other access to a dual scaling (stam + mag) heal (Don't even suggest Conversion. I'll hurt you...). I think that the healing it provides should still be a % of damage, similar to Jabs/Funnel/etc, but should be a smaller amount or triggers off of different perimeters. Only healing off of critical damage is interesting to an extent, but it doesn't fit into the class's overall theme (crit fits more in with Nightblades) and isn't a dynamic event that has the player thinking of how to proc it, it just comes in chance based off of stats.

Ajaxduo

Galerion (is it AoE?) if not it needs to be the magicka mirror of the Viper's Sting set. Just for reference;



But yeah it seems most players will just use magicka nb/templar with annulment to farm vmsa.

Lucky28

@Gilliamtherogue i disagree with you're stance on surge man. my nightblade has highers healing then my sorc funnel hits for 13 - 15K and costs 800 magicka it is most definitely a one size fits all. that and sap gives damage buff so really not that much difference.

code65536

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

The duration on ward and all shields (with the exception of Healing Ward, for obvious reasons) should be increased while in Non Player interactions, or else we're going to see a meta shift where everyone stacks health again so they can avoid mechanics that instantly kill players.

The bigger problem is that high-end content like vMoL and vMA are balanced around the current high-DPS meta. If they want us to make DPS sacrifices, then there needs to be a re-tuning of the content.

Minalan

So,
Solo content DPS goes into the toilet.
Galerion set is bad, needs rework.
Surge heal change was devastating, and now useless in PVP.

Question for the OP: Did you try the empowered ward variant at all? You can keep that up for ten seconds, and then use Anulment for burst defense. It also comes with a 10% Magicka regen bonus with minor intellect. I know it's not as big as hardened ward, but with points in bastion it shouldn't be too terrible is it?

Edit: @Joy_Division that was amazing work you put in.

Gilliamtherogue

Lucky28 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue i disagree with you're stance on surge man. my nightblade has highers healing then my sorc funnel hits for 13 - 15K and costs 800 magicka it is most definitely a one size fits all.

@Lucky28 If you disagree then you failed to understand the counter points I mentioned.

Funnel health does less damage than other abilities (Force Pulse, Concealed Weapon), meaning you trade damage for healing. With Surge you GAIN damage (major sorcery/brutality) and gain healing.

Funnel has a lower cost, but does not proc things like Elemental Drain, which make up for the high cost of Force Pulse, and actually has the operational cost even lower than Funnel, making your point moot. It also does not benefit from as many end game passives, unlike the other spammable skill options.

Funnel health is a singular skill, meaning you need to recast it over and over to receive the healing over time component. Surge heals off of any non DoT damage, meaning you are free to cast whatever skill you want after Surge is applied, assuming it does not deal damage over time.

Funnel health's healing can no longer crit on the PTS, this will reduce the effectiveness of the HPS by over 50%. So you understand what I mean, if I hit funnel health for 10k, and it heals me for 28% of the damage dealt every 2 seconds for seconds, it's healing me for 2800 2 seconds over X seconds, but that 2800 can crit based on my CHD modifier (the base is 1.5 or 150%, most end game caster builds have anywhere from 1.7 to 2.0+ depending on buffs available or builds). Also, If I CRIT funnel health for 15k, and it heals for 28% of the damage, that's 4200 every 2 seconds, and that can ALSO crit.
* the 28% is reflected by my current morph+CP allocation, its base is 25% if I recall correctly.

FriedEggSandwich

Awesome work Joy, great post. You are the sorcs' advocate.

Lucky28

@Gilliamtherogue in PvE my magblade is just as survivable as my sorc so the idea that surge is OP i just find ridiculous. sorry.

Gilliamtherogue

Oh I should have also mentioned that % healing should not be affected by Battle Spirit, it is far too destructive to the potential of each skill. We all remember the fall of Dragon's Blood because of it, now Surge shall suffer the same consequences. #%livesmatter

Minalan

I'm still dumbfounded that the devs think that 4K DPS is 'sufficient damage', given the constant struggle sorcs have to stay alive now. Not to mention the sustain issues we have recasting shields.

Grao

Great work as usual @Joy_Division, unfortunately I doubt ZOS will listen to your numbers any more than they listen to our hard work from Theoricrafting.

Still, your numbers clearly demonstrate what we can expect as sorcerers in this coming patch. DB is the death nail for sorcerers.

NBrookus

EXCELLENT work, OP.

My conclusion is basically the same. My sorc is now an inferior magicka templar. My templar can't quite burst like my sorc, but has superior sustain and survivability.

Grao

NBrookus wrote: »

EXCELLENT work, OP.

My conclusion is basically the same. My sorc is now an inferior magicka templar. My templar can't quite burst like my sorc, but has superior sustain and survivability.

Templars are by far superior... Like, miles far... XD

s7732425ub17_ESO

Galerion's Revenge is purely a PVP-focused set. There's really no use for it in PVE. It adds 1k DPS but it outclassed by many other sets.

However, in PVP, I can see it being very powerful. I will actually probably use it.

Derra

@Joy_Division we might have had out differences on certain topics in the past but i thank you for putting this together.

The last two paragraphs are how i´ve been feeling about the class for a long time. It´s deeply flawed and as a result of this has always been pigeonholed into certain playstyles and builds (hence people claiming all sorcs are the same cookiecutter - it´s not like they had much choice).

With the DB changes ZOS actually chops of an arm and a leg of the last few vaible buildoptions the sorc class had in terms of competetive solo pve and for solo pvp aswell (grp won´t be as bad).

I truely hope someone at ZOS will read (and understand) what you put together because with writing this you´ve hit the nail on the head.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Joy_Division wrote: »

• How was this flat number determined? Flat numbers are bad because they are not related to the organic numbers generated by the game. Look at the other heal+DPS skills in the game, they are connected to each other so that way the heals always keep pace even though with every patch, the damage numbers people pull off increase. If you believe ZoS will spend the time to adjust the surge amount, go ask Dragonknights about their experience with the Dragon's Blood ability.

QFT. Probably the best piece of game development advice in this entire thread. Updates are few and far between. A system where you have to constantly tweak individual values is unsustainable based on how ZOS does (or doesn't) do maintenance on the game.

Derra

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Galerion's Revenge is purely a PVP-focused set. There's really no use for it in PVE. It adds 1k DPS but it outclassed by many other sets.

However, in PVP, I can see it being very powerful. I will actually probably use it.

It´s reduced by battlespirit. 2k extra "burstdmg" for having to hit 6 light attacks are not worth giving up any other setbonus imo.

Minalan

Another question @Joy_Division

Would lightning form help any? Since the AOE should trigger a heal every second while up if the enemies are close enough.

Derra wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Galerion's Revenge is purely a PVP-focused set. There's really no use for it in PVE. It adds 1k DPS but it outclassed by many other sets.

However, in PVP, I can see it being very powerful. I will actually probably use it.

It´s reduced by battlespirit. 2k extra "burstdmg" for having to hit 6 light attacks are not worth giving up any other setbonus imo.

Exactly this. Thank you.

It's not worth giving up five piece Kags or Julianos spell damage for this.

Joy_Division

TY for the kind words.

Some answers and other observations:

@code65536 - your suggestion would solve the wasted light attacks on dead mobs problem. Certainly an improvement, but I want more out a 5 piece set bonus that 5K or so damage every 6 attack weaves.

@Ishammael - DKs have real feeling to be sure

@Gilliamtherogue - I agree with most of your points and I believe we see eye to eye on most issues. And you do bring up an important point that the heals from DPS cannot crit anymore (something I believe is a mistake as there are enough stacking healing debuffs to go around but I digress). I do, however, think you overestimate Surge - the way you refer to it as being able to heal through legions of enemies was true in 1.5, but the changes in 1.6 have put an end to all that. Even in its current form, sorcerers cannot rely upon it the way templars can with jabs, NB cans with funnel/sap, and DKs can with embers/inhale because the actual heal+dps skills are on heal on demand whereas surge is not.

In a Raid context in which I have every buff active, I would agree that a surge+crushing shock is superior (at least to the sorcerer's perspective) to NB's funnel (the person receiving the off heal might disagree). If I am alone or even in PuG instanced dungeon, I would rather have funnel because at the point my objective is not optimized DPS / group function, rather self-sustain and survival. That's my perspective, admittedly from someone who spends much more time in situations that place a premium on self sustain than raid efficiency.

@Minalan - No, I did not try the Empowered variant of ward (an odd name considering the ward is smaller) because I PvP and in my perspective the larger shield from Hardened is not negotiable. I have zero desire to take a smaller shield that will get me killed in PvP just so I can run my sorcerer through Maelstrom. I'll just log my templar or DK.

@Derra - We actually probably agree on 85-90% percent of stuff in ESO, particularly from a mechanics standpoint. I have almost always found your posts and perspectives insightful and thus your words mean a lot. I just happen to hold atypical views when it comes to "zergs."

***************

I was thinking of trying to do a Sorcerer vMA run without using Hardened Ward just to see how strong their non-shield self-sustain/survival compared to a DKs or Templars, two classes I have run many times in vMA. I have to say my motivation isn't particularly strong because I already tried a mini-experiment soloing the Lamia Boss in Hew's Bane. I can kill her without much difficulty on my templar and DK every time. I will only die if I don't see her heavy attack animation (which isn't easy as the color contrast of the little lines is poor with the environmental setting). When I tried on my sorc it took me 3 death to get into a rhythm of what to do without casting shields and it's not easy, it's not fun, and it's too reliant on an RNG crit (something I question is really skillful). I did manage to finally kill her, but it took me five and a half minutes. My DK kills her in three and a half.

Someone else is welcome to try, but I've spent enough times on my own to know the difference between self-sustain on a sorcerer, DK, and templar. That I am actually using DKs and templars are models for self-sufficiency should be striking: both of these classes have taken major tanking hits since 1.5 - DKs have a terrible self heal and need the old Cinderstorm back and the only way templars can pull it off is jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab. More often than not in this game I have been frustrated rather than happy about playing a sorcerer and thus not motivated to go beyond what I have done here.