The impact of PVP on PVE.

FatKidHatchets

OP is nuts. Everything in PvE can easily be accomplished.

Look, games like this constantly change so that players chase the elusive perfect builds.

Have you considered your tank bringing tri pots and put alchemy cool down on his rings? He can oiterrally drink pots the whole fight.

And thats just one solution.

Feck the only thing these changes do is tell players to get more interesting with their builds.

Hell they are nerfing the dungeons so hard folks can 3 man them. Thats got nothing to do with PvP.

Nerfs come for one reason. A good couple of players figure out the mythical perfect build AND are great with it. I mean GREAT, like put everyone to shame great. And then bad players, rather than get better and play smarter cry, hard.

So Devs try to level the field since there are more bad players than good ones.

For example, Valkyn Skoria from city of ash. Everyone thinks its a DPS race and cries if their dPS can't kill him before third platform is gone.

Heres something folks never seem to understand, the rocky ledges, you can fight him on them. Oh the fire gysers? You just walk back and forth when they shoot. I have killed him on my tank long after everyone else died. But its getting nerfed cause bad players never figured it out.

Stop complaining and get creative.

waterfairy

vamp_emily wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

- No Stam regen on block
- Removal of Bracing Passive
- Dodge roll nerf
- Increase in cost of all abilities (come DB patch)
- increase in break free, sprint, block (come DB patch)
- Reduction of shield periods (without a reduction of cost)

Oh my, PvE players have it tough. I didn't know you needed to dodge roll when picking flowers. Those mats must be pretty tough to harvest. Mats OP?

Yeah all boss fights are like a walk in a flower field and nothing snares you in PvE.

waterfairy

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Nerfs come for one reason. A good couple of players figure out the mythical perfect build AND are great with it. I mean GREAT, like put everyone to shame great. And then bad players, rather than get better and play smarter cry, hard.

That's not the reason why things like bolt escape got nerfed. I don't understand the defensive denial of PvP crying creates skill nerfs...nobody denies that PvE crying creates dungeon nerfs. The real issue is the way in which ZOS handles it.

I play PvE with my friend. I don't care for the Cyrodiil crap where I have to grind ad nauseam to get the best gear and max CP just to be able to play the game, so I don't chase the "elusive perfect build" nor do I want to readjust my character every time someone finds it or cries about something causing grief to their perfect build. I simply want to play the game with my friend and be able to count on my trusty character skills that have helped me hone my player skill to enjoy the game with him.

RandalMarrs

Opinions are like... Here is mine. Take away CP in PvP and alter skill mechanics so they work differently in PvP vs PvE. Change the tool tips to explain the difference. Then PvP is all about skill and everyone can be happy or have opinions that only impact their favored domain.

ButtersEP

I enjoy both PVP and PVE (mostly PVP atm because PVE is way out dated questing is super lame sorry ZOS bring some dang dungeons already) but I totally agree that nerfs between the two need to be completely separate. Trying to find a balance that will work well for both is highly unlikely.

Ser Lobo

Vigarr wrote: »

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Nerfs come for one reason. A good couple of players figure out the mythical perfect build AND are great with it. I mean GREAT, like put everyone to shame great. And then bad players, rather than get better and play smarter cry, hard.

That's not the reason why things like bolt escape got nerfed. I don't understand the defensive denial of PvP crying creates skill nerfs...nobody denies that PvE crying creates dungeon nerfs. The real issue is the way in which ZOS handles it.

I play PvE with my friend. I don't care for the Cyrodiil crap where I have to grind ad nauseam to get the best gear and max CP just to be able to play the game, so I don't chase the "elusive perfect build" nor do I want to readjust my character every time someone finds it or cries about something causing grief to their perfect build. I simply want to play the game with my friend and be able to count on my trusty character skills that have helped me hone my player skill to enjoy the game with him.

Agreed. I'm very rarely effected by the 'nerf of the month', mainly because I don't chase meta. Funny enough, my bow wielding nightblade has been doing damn well from the early days on PC, through today. Sometimes better, sometimes noticably worse, but always able to do it.

Like most companies I've seen, once a meta establishes itself, 'rebalancing' (aka nerfing/buffing) comes into play, players complain, and the meta shifts to a new flavor.

InvitationNotFound

Vigarr wrote: »

I play PvE with my friend. I don't care for the Cyrodiil crap where I have to grind ad nauseam to get the best gear and max CP just to be able to play the game, so I don't chase the "elusive perfect build" nor do I want to readjust my character every time someone finds it or cries about something causing grief to their perfect build. I simply want to play the game with my friend and be able to count on my trusty character skills that have helped me hone my player skill to enjoy the game with him.

*sighs* If currently don't care about PVE gear / cp etc. you most likely won't care about it in the future as well, as you will perform still as "good" as you do now.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of anything ZOS did lately and I don't like to equip all my chars again (I actually gave up as it is too expensive with 5 vr16 chars) but you complain at the wrong place about the wrong things. Again, no PVP player requested most of the **** that is being implemented.

And if you don't like that a game has PVP you probably should go for something that isn't an MMORPG, or maybe something like the sims (not sure, i don't know the game. but i think it's for role players and care bears. right?).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

You absolutely do not need max champion points to compete in PVP. I do it all the time, finished all 5 kill 20s yesterday and have 349. Prospering in PVP has to do with things like situational awareness and teamwork much more than CP. If you're within 200 CP it's a bridgeable gap for most good players.

Fallen_Ray

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, pvp does bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVE dungeon runners do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

kinggingernator

Issue is this: PvP players have yet to get ANY sort of new content, and we still have to put up with laggy old cyrodiil and the balance is awful.

Sogreth

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I like to change people's quotes because I think I'm funny, but really, I'm just a passive aggressive jerk.

FTFY

Fallen_Ray

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

Aisle9

kinggingernator wrote: »

Issue is this: PvP players have yet to get ANY sort of new content, and we still have to put up with laggy old cyrodiil and the balance is awful.

Isn't Imperial City a PvP DLC ?

I'm asking because I'm considering one of them, and Imperial City is listed as PvP/PvE

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

I would take that challenge, actually. I'm not saying I'm that good, nor that I would survive, but I would definitely take the challenge.

Foxic

"- No Stam regen on block
- Removal of Bracing Passive
- Dodge roll nerf
- Increase in cost of all abilities (come DB patch)
- increase in break free, sprint, block (come DB patch)
- Reduction of shield periods (without a reduction of cost)"

None of these things effect any decent pve player. Everyone keeps complaining about tank nerfs but it is still by far the easiest role in the game.

Sogreth

I really wish we could "disagree" with posts. Some people really need it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I don't have to be passive aggressive. Mostly if you really want to speak in large generalities I've found PVE only players to be infinitely more insufferable than PVP only people. The common complaint is that PVP players seem to be blood thirsty maniacs because they kill an opponent in a PVP zone. Meanwhile the common complaint about PVE only players is that they are prejudice against players who are not specced in a way they perceive to be perfect.

Neither are absolutely true but the PVErs never stop complaining about everything. Seriously, does it really matter that sorc streak was nerfed when you're running the same dungeon hamster wheel for the 500th time in hopes that you can get one piece of gear that makes that hamster wheel turn 2% faster?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

RE: Ganking

I guess you don't realize that the scariest person in vet PVP is a guy running right at you that's a level 34? If I see that guy at this point I just assume they have 500 CP. VR16s are everywhere.

Muizer

Sogreth wrote: »

I really wish we could "disagree" with posts. Some people really need it.

I don't agree with this.

Sogreth

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't have to be passive aggressive. Mostly if you really want to speak in large generalities I've found PVE only players to be infinitely more insufferable than PVP only people. The common complaint is that PVP players seem to be blood thirsty maniacs because they kill an opponent in a PVP zone. Meanwhile the common complaint about PVE only players is that they are prejudice against players who are not specced in a way they perceive to be perfect.

Neither are absolutely true but the PVErs never stop complaining about everything. Seriously, does it really matter that sorc streak was nerfed when you're running the same dungeon hamster wheel for the 500th time in hopes that you can get one piece of gear that makes that hamster wheel turn 2% faster?

Rofl. You are either blind to the world. Or very biased...Or both.

I don't know what PvEers you've been talking to, but whenever I interact with them, they help me when I ask for help. They don't call me out for using the wrong spec. I don't feel any prejudice from them. They might say things like, "Hey, if you use this skill, or this morph, and these CP instead of those ones, you'll see much better results." Hell, I asked in chat before because I felt like I wasn't up to par for my Lv, I thought I was killing things too slowly, and someone took me aside, asked me questions about my character, and ended making an entire set for my character for that Lv.

And PvPers on the other hand, they WILL call you out for not playing perfectly. "So-and-so is under attack! Am I the only one here? You guys are all f-ing noobs. Go kill yourself!" or some other toxic insult/death wish.

I've seen both worlds. And by far, PvPers tend to be much more toxic than PvEers. Obviously that's not always going to be the case though.

Ser Lobo

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

I've had good guilds and good runs, but I've also run plenty of PUG groups. 'Co-operative' isn't something many seem to understand. The take charge, tell everyone what to do types, or the 'I'm going to cover up my failure by blaming others', or even the 'I'll just listen to this really loud music and comment on how high/drunk I am repeatedly'?

Yeah.

Course being fair, this happens in PvE AND PvP. And there are just as many, if not more, who are just fine and fun to group with. I just want to remind people that offensive, insulting types exist in every game population, on both sides, and our individual experiences can vary because we get into good guilds of like minded people, or maybe we pug it up on something we don't do often.

I've seen people argue that, because PvE is supposed to be 'co-operative' and PvP is 'confrontational', that those types of people inherently gravitate towards those types of content. But realistically and logically speaking, PvP also requires more than it's share of 'co-operation', both with your team and in odd ways also with your opponents, and PvE has more than it's share of 'confrontation', as players struggle with varying skill levels and degrees of output to complete more difficult content.

RandalMarrs

Imperial City DC reminds me of DCUOs altering of mechanics enticing PvP players to play PvE and forcing PvE players to utilize the button mashing Madness of their RPS system to succeed in PvE content. Character improving skill points were attained through achievements so PvE and PvP players were further forced to complete content of the opposite format to improve their character. Ultimately, you cannot please everyone I guess is the lesson learned here. Make PvP optional for PvE players and vice versa.

dodgehopper_ESO

If they revise PvE to fit around the way PVP works, the whole game will feel right. I think that's the best approach - and what DCUO does (or did anyway).

Fallen_Ray

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

RE: Ganking

I guess you don't realize that the scariest person in vet PVP is a guy running right at you that's a level 34? If I see that guy at this point I just assume they have 500 CP. VR16s are everywhere.

Lol are lower levels that much of a threat in pvp?!

Fallen_Ray

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

I've had good guilds and good runs, but I've also run plenty of PUG groups. 'Co-operative' isn't something many seem to understand. The take charge, tell everyone what to do types, or the 'I'm going to cover up my failure by blaming others', or even the 'I'll just listen to this really loud music and comment on how high/drunk I am repeatedly'?

Yeah.

Course being fair, this happens in PvE AND PvP. And there are just as many, if not more, who are just fine and fun to group with. I just want to remind people that offensive, insulting types exist in every game population, on both sides, and our individual experiences can vary because we get into good guilds of like minded people, or maybe we pug it up on something we don't do often.

I've seen people argue that, because PvE is supposed to be 'co-operative' and PvP is 'confrontational', that those types of people inherently gravitate towards those types of content. But realistically and logically speaking, PvP also requires more than it's share of 'co-operation', both with your team and in odd ways also with your opponents, and PvE has more than it's share of 'confrontation', as players struggle with varying skill levels and degrees of output to complete more difficult content.

At least in pve i try to be friendly. if in a dungeon the team wipes because of me I do admit my mistake and even apologize. I know how frustrating it is to wipe because someone made an oops. But were humans mistakes will happen no matter how pro a person might be.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This is a two way street. A lot of the nerf threads are from people that PvE more than they PvP, come into cyrodiil with PvE gear and then cry when they die.

Most of the hardcore PvP community has opposed the continual nerfs, asking instead for counters instead of nerfs.

One of the best examples of this was ground oils. You used to be able to place oil pots on the ground as ground aoe. They didn't have a drop distance. They were the best anti-zerg tool we had. They were probably one of the easiest things to avoid and counter but some people insisted in standing in red, dying to oils, then crying about oil farms on the forums.

Some special PvE'er saw an oil pot in the middle of a field and had a mental breakdown because it ruined his immersions. Never mind that we take 50ft siege engines out of our pockets and set them up. Ground oil is the real immersion killer. There were threads and threads about realism and burning oil physics and how it should be restricted to keeps.

ZOS listened, against the will of most of the hardcore PvP community and ground oils were nerfed. And Zergs got stronger. This is just one example. But usually the people that complain the most about PvP and get things nerfed don't really understand how PvP works and come from the PvE community.

So eventually this comes back to hurt the PvE community? The chickens come home to roost as they say...

Valkas

Ohh so OP wants the game to be loleasier in pve. Who cares why they change stuff. Adapt and l2p

waterfairy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGaug5M-8Rg

RandalMarrs

And it goes round and round. Better to figure out who is to blame instead of addressing the problem.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

RE: Ganking

I guess you don't realize that the scariest person in vet PVP is a guy running right at you that's a level 34? If I see that guy at this point I just assume they have 500 CP. VR16s are everywhere.

Lol are lower levels that much of a threat in pvp?!

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

I agree, PVP do bring out the @&$#0|3 in everyone.

Fixed for you.

It more often the times someone goes on the offensive while fighting another rather than cooperating with another. A good example of this is when a group ganks a poor defenseless soul. In that example PVP made the ganking group the @&$#0|3$. What's so fun about a 10 v.s. 1 fight?

RE: Ganking

I guess you don't realize that the scariest person in vet PVP is a guy running right at you that's a level 34? If I see that guy at this point I just assume they have 500 CP. VR16s are everywhere.

Lol are lower levels that much of a threat in pvp?!

Honestly, yes. There is no way to tell who you're fighting so everyone needs to be considered a threat. A new VR16 with 160 CP, a level 19 with 0 CP and a level 10 with 500 all look the same. You really can't tell until either you just melted them in under 2 seconds or if you're in minute 3 of holding onto your own butt spamming heals and escapes.