The impact of PVP on PVE.

mistermutiny89

As the title states, PVP continues to destroy (edit- END GAME) PVE on all accounts.

Here's where PVE has been strongly impeded by PVP in the past and present.

- No Stam regen on block
- Removal of Bracing Passive
- Dodge roll nerf
- Increase in cost of all abilities (come DB patch)
- increase in break free, sprint, block (come DB patch)
- Reduction of shield periods (without a reduction of cost)

Sometimes a tank needs to hold block for extensive periods of time, dropping block can be lethal, relying on the whims of Engine Guardian procs, or being forced to use ultimates when the team does not yet need said ultimates isn't right. Magicka builds sometimes need to dodge roll twice but with the coming patch, good luck being able to cc break, dodge roll and block one attack in ten seconds. Sure, shields in PVE only last a couple of seconds in harder dungeons, but it's important to cast it in between battles..

You keep nerfing things to the ground, now even champion points are tainted by the PVP crews because they refuse to use the non CP campaign. You've given them ENOUGH!

Keep the above nerfs in PVP. If you keep doing this, it keeps all the buffs and abilities we use void. Just remove all of the buffs and bring back caps, that's the way the game is headed.

edit- disclaimer (forgot to put it in).... I don't want to seem like I'm attacking Pvp'ers entirely. The state of Cyrodiil is fifty types of atrocious. I'd much rather the state of PVE now than what you guys have to deal with on a day to day basis... However, a separation of buffs and abilities needs to be made in PVP that doesn't impact PVE. Give a look at Warframe's PVP, they actually stop the ability to place strong mods on your character whilst in PVP. It's the most balanced system in PVP I've ever seen. Just an after thought. Please don't fight and squabble everyone!

kinggingernator

Cool. Pve is still easy (saving the new trial.) Pve gets way more attention than pvp.

Jhunn

Noone asked for the new changes/nerfs to blocking (passives, CP, etc.). Blame ZOS, not PvP'ers.

haunted1994F

PvE in this game is not rewarding so who cares anyway. . .

NateAssassin

haunted1994F wrote: »

PvE in this game is not rewarding so who cares anyway. . .

PvP isn't either so maybe you should just go find a more rewarding game to play.

haunted1994F

NateAssassin wrote: »

haunted1994F wrote: »

PvE in this game is not rewarding so who cares anyway. . .

PvP isn't either so maybe you should just go find a more rewarding game to play.

I get AP sell to gold EZ profit not even kill ppl just standing to get D tick. . . pls think

Valrien

haunted1994F wrote: »

PvE in this game is not rewarding so who cares anyway. . .

Neither is PvP?

Asuryan11

This discussion... will not end well. That is about as constructive as I need to be on a post like this.

NateAssassin

haunted1994F wrote: »

NateAssassin wrote: »

haunted1994F wrote: »

PvE in this game is not rewarding so who cares anyway. . .

PvP isn't either so maybe you should just go find a more rewarding game to play.

I get AP sell to gold EZ profit not even kill ppl just standing to get D tick. . . pls think

I run around in circles leeching off people trying to level and get thousands of Rubedo scraps, get EZ gold profit

Voxicity

no

AllPlayAndNoWork

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

As the title states, PVP continues to destroy (edit- END GAME) PVE on all accounts.

Here's where PVE has been strongly impeded by PVP in the past and present.

- No Stam regen on block
- Removal of Bracing Passive
- Dodge roll nerf
- Increase in cost of all abilities (come DB patch)
- increase in break free, sprint, block (come DB patch)
- Reduction of shield periods (without a reduction of cost)

Sometimes a tank needs to hold block for extensive periods of time, dropping block can be lethal, relying on the whims of Engine Guardian procs, or being forced to use ultimates when the team does not yet need said ultimates isn't right. Magicka builds sometimes need to dodge roll twice but with the coming patch, good luck being able to cc break, dodge roll and block one attack in ten seconds. Sure, shields in PVE only last a couple of seconds in harder dungeons, but it's important to cast it in between battles..

You keep nerfing things to the ground, now even champion points are tainted by the PVP crews because they refuse to use the non CP campaign. You've given them ENOUGH!

Keep the above nerfs in PVP. If you keep doing this, it keeps all the buffs and abilities we use void. Just remove all of the buffs and bring back caps, that's the way the game is headed.

edit- disclaimer (forgot to put it in).... I don't want to seem like I'm attacking Pvp'ers entirely. The state of Cyrodiil is fifty types of atrocious. I'd much rather the state of PVE now than what you guys have to deal with on a day to day basis... However, a separation of buffs and abilities needs to be made in PVP that doesn't impact PVE. Give a look at Warframe's PVP, they actually stop the ability to place strong mods on your character whilst in PVP. It's the most balanced system in PVP I've ever seen. Just an after thought. Please don't fight and squabble everyone!

Nope. The day PvE died is when you could kill Doshia before the transformation.
Long live PvP.

clayandaudrey_ESO

This thread reads better if you picture everyone looking like this.

BlackEar

Let's remove pvp!

NateAssassin

BlackEar wrote: »

Let's remove pvp!

Maybe the game wouldn't lag so bad if they did, I secon this.

Rohamad_Ali

I agree that nerfing has been detrimental to the PvE community . As a PvP player that also enjoys PvE , this makes the game unpleasant at times . I hope the team in charge of balance stops dropping nerfs to solve every problem in PvP and looks towards other avenues that keep other play styles in mind .

stojekarcub18_ESO

This is how it works in every MMO until they finally realize that all they had to do was change how skills work in pve vs pvp. Time-tested solution that gets ignored by devs far too often.

Knightpanther

Pvper has always screwed up PVE everyone knows that.
The only game that got it right was EQ2.

Be safe

Sallington

lol

Sheezabeast

Golly gee I thought this would be about min/maxers who have low HP and try to DPS like they do in PVP and they die easy in dungeons lol >:D

Muizer

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

As the title states, PVP continues to destroy (edit- END GAME) PVE on all accounts.

As long as there is one rule set for PvE and PvP, PvP will rule ability balancing. You can tell the AI not to use exploits or over-powered abilities, but not players. If this rebalancing is destroying PvE, then the problem is not with the requirements of PvP, but with the PvE content not being balanced along with it.

Ser Lobo

Long time roleplayer. Done major PvE end game content in many, many MMO's and other genre's. Hardcore PvPer in almost every game except MMO's. I stand with one foot in each of these different playstyles, and don't worry about where that third foot comes from.

That said, in every single game I've participated on in over two decades where this same statement was made, I feel forced to remind people that there are balance passes for many reasons. In PvE only games, they still won't let an overpowered PvE class exist for too long, because it's OUT OF BALANCE!

I will offer one caveat from this finger pointing: PvPers do draw MORE attention, FASTER, to inbalances.

But if you're going off the flawed logic that 'PvE doesn't hurt anybody' and that 'PvE isn't hurt when something is too strong', then understand that I disagree with your logic, and apparently every developer I've ever seen also agrees. I think this 'I'm not hurting anybody' mentality is self defense, intended to guard whatever broken or special mechanic you've found that you *know* is borked, but want to keep.

Don't worry, PvP players do that denial *** too.

waterfairy

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

This thread reads better if you picture everyone looking like this.

ha that's pretty much what I picture when people bicker about it.

Separating skills into a PvP and PvE category would end the arguments and would put all the blame where it belongs...on ZOS.

Oh and I'm in the PvE group who's unhappy about changes due to PvP play like nerfing my shields, wrecking blow, executioner, etc. They take away too much then give people poison which will greatly unbalance PvP anyway (makes no sense).

mistermutiny89

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Long time roleplayer. Done major PvE end game content in many, many MMO's and other genre's. Hardcore PvPer in almost every game except MMO's. I stand with one foot in each of these different playstyles, and don't worry about where that third foot comes from.

That said, in every single game I've participated on in over two decades where this same statement was made, I feel forced to remind people that there are balance passes for many reasons. In PvE only games, they still won't let an overpowered PvE class exist for too long, because it's OUT OF BALANCE!

I will offer one caveat from this finger pointing: PvPers do draw MORE attention, FASTER, to inbalances.

But if you're going off the flawed logic that 'PvE doesn't hurt anybody' and that 'PvE isn't hurt when something is too strong', then understand that I disagree with your logic, and apparently every developer I've ever seen also agrees. I think this 'I'm not hurting anybody' mentality is self defense, intended to guard whatever broken or special mechanic you've found that you *know* is borked, but want to keep.

Don't worry, PvP players do that denial *** too.

@ruze84b14_ESO

That all sounds great but you've brought nothing factual into this discussion. I've listed very specific things (nothing broken or overused in PVE) that PVP has removed or changed for the PVE community. Are you okay with those changes in PVE? Do you think they are warranted? Or do they only belong in PVP? Should there be a stronger line between the two?

Daraugh

Isn't funny how the problems that arise are always the fault of the "other players"?

Everything impacts everything else. Hell, if you're a pure crafter you may have had a hotfix recently, just for you and your naughty ways! I /bugged another crafting exploit yesterday.

What is likely to happen, if this trend becomes the new gameplay style that brings some balance, then end game mechanics will reflect these changes as the game evolves.

Hamrb

if you haven't already noticed, putting pvp and pve in the title of the thread, youre just gonna get trolls and people who hate eachother in here, talking about anything to do with pve and pvp, off subject, they don't even read the OP usually and go on to slam pve or pvp. blah blah blah, enjoy the lag, blah blah blah, pve is easy(usually coming from people who have never done icp or wgt or any trials)

waterfairy

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Long time roleplayer. Done major PvE end game content in many, many MMO's and other genre's. Hardcore PvPer in almost every game except MMO's. I stand with one foot in each of these different playstyles, and don't worry about where that third foot comes from.

That said, in every single game I've participated on in over two decades where this same statement was made, I feel forced to remind people that there are balance passes for many reasons. In PvE only games, they still won't let an overpowered PvE class exist for too long, because it's OUT OF BALANCE!

I will offer one caveat from this finger pointing: PvPers do draw MORE attention, FASTER, to inbalances.

But if you're going off the flawed logic that 'PvE doesn't hurt anybody' and that 'PvE isn't hurt when something is too strong', then understand that I disagree with your logic, and apparently every developer I've ever seen also agrees. I think this 'I'm not hurting anybody' mentality is self defense, intended to guard whatever broken or special mechanic you've found that you *know* is borked, but want to keep.

Don't worry, PvP players do that denial *** too.

I don't think having wrecking blow knocking down NPC's was too strong or "broken" but it's obviously something that has been complained about constantly by people who can't handle it in PvP. How will I stop the damn spiders from feeding now if I can't knock them down?

Having shields last 20 seconds when a boss can trash them in one shot isn't broken either, it's another thing being nerfed for PvP sake.

These are the sort of things that are the issue here, not a clearly broken mechanic left alone for long.

Ser Lobo

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Long time roleplayer. Done major PvE end game content in many, many MMO's and other genre's. Hardcore PvPer in almost every game except MMO's. I stand with one foot in each of these different playstyles, and don't worry about where that third foot comes from.

That said, in every single game I've participated on in over two decades where this same statement was made, I feel forced to remind people that there are balance passes for many reasons. In PvE only games, they still won't let an overpowered PvE class exist for too long, because it's OUT OF BALANCE!

I will offer one caveat from this finger pointing: PvPers do draw MORE attention, FASTER, to inbalances.

But if you're going off the flawed logic that 'PvE doesn't hurt anybody' and that 'PvE isn't hurt when something is too strong', then understand that I disagree with your logic, and apparently every developer I've ever seen also agrees. I think this 'I'm not hurting anybody' mentality is self defense, intended to guard whatever broken or special mechanic you've found that you *know* is borked, but want to keep.

Don't worry, PvP players do that denial *** too.

@ruze84b14_ESO

That all sounds great but you've brought nothing factual into this discussion. I've listed very specific things (nothing broken or overused in PVE) that PVP has removed or changed for the PVE community. Are you okay with those changes in PVE? Do you think they are warranted? Or do they only belong in PVP? Should there be a stronger line between the two?

Yes, I'm okay with them. I'm confident that the developers know more of the facts and figures than me, and that they may be trying to take several steps to solve an issue that they have statisticaly proven.

Can't say I always agree or like what ZOS is doing. Only that it's not my call to make.

I do, however, fundamentally disagree with the separation of PvP and PvE mechanics. It creates a larger division in games. Too many 'classist' players who spend all their time looking for any excuse to hate on other players playstyles, whether it's 'PvP elitists' or 'PvEtards'.

I don't know if I find any of your points 'factual' besides the list of what's being changed. I do however see a lot of opinions, from me, you, and many others.

What I wouldn't give sometimes to see the hard data that ZOS bases these decisions off of.

Rohamad_Ali

These results are not at the fault of any players . PvP petitions for itself just as PvE does . The resulting flaws are clearly the result of the game design team attempting balance . There is no spoon . Stop bickering .

susmitds

To be honest, though I don't really care about being nerfed in PvE. It is too damn easy. At least hopefully the nerfs will give it a challenge tone up.

Ser Lobo

Vigarr wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Long time roleplayer. Done major PvE end game content in many, many MMO's and other genre's. Hardcore PvPer in almost every game except MMO's. I stand with one foot in each of these different playstyles, and don't worry about where that third foot comes from.

That said, in every single game I've participated on in over two decades where this same statement was made, I feel forced to remind people that there are balance passes for many reasons. In PvE only games, they still won't let an overpowered PvE class exist for too long, because it's OUT OF BALANCE!

I will offer one caveat from this finger pointing: PvPers do draw MORE attention, FASTER, to inbalances.

But if you're going off the flawed logic that 'PvE doesn't hurt anybody' and that 'PvE isn't hurt when something is too strong', then understand that I disagree with your logic, and apparently every developer I've ever seen also agrees. I think this 'I'm not hurting anybody' mentality is self defense, intended to guard whatever broken or special mechanic you've found that you *know* is borked, but want to keep.

Don't worry, PvP players do that denial *** too.

I don't think having wrecking blow knocking down NPC's was too strong or "broken" but it's obviously something that has been complained about constantly by people who can't handle it in PvP. How will I stop the damn spiders from feeding now if I can't knock them down?

Having shields last 20 seconds when a boss can trash them in one shot isn't broken either, it's another thing being nerfed for PvP sake.

These are the sort of things that are the issue here, not a clearly broken mechanic left alone for long.

On my bow I have an interrupt that I use frequently to disable those spiders.

As a counter point, they wouldn't have to change wrecking blow from knocking down NPC's, as many of those abilities have very separate responses between players and NPC's already. I would hazard a guess (which is all it is, and we know it) that there was a lot of knocking NPC's around which the devs probably didn't like, which is why the more blanket change.

binho

Oh God! The drama!!!

PVP bla bla blaaaa!!!
PVE bla bla bla blaaa!!!!

This is not an issue!

PVP player should be able to PVP!
PVE players should be able to PVE!

The game has got enough content for everyone!