Official Feedback Thread for Templars

BalticBlues · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

Ffastyl · February 2016

I am seeing a number of bad arguments going on in this thread using a multitude of fallacies, most popularly the strawman fallacy followed by the ad hominem fallacy. In order to steer this thread into a more constructive conversation, we should know what these fallacies are and avoid using them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb-h0sXkH4

Remember we are arguing ideas, not people.

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2016

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I have been working on a complete rework for the entire Templar class (as well as the others, but Templar is almost done)

Here is what I have for the first two restoring light abilities that I think will help out with spamming.

Rushed Ceremony - I feel these changes will make healing not so rampant, but keep Templars as competitive healers without having to use a Restoration Staff.
Base - Now has a 1 second cast time. This is a bomb heal, and should have a cast time for the amount of healing that it is capable of.
Honor the Dead - Same cast time and mana return, but the same amount of mana comes in over 4 seconds instead of 8. If the mana-return conditions are met, the recipient if the heal also gets a small (5-10% HP) damage shield.
Breath of Light - Same cast time. Heals up to 4 allies for 50-75% of Rushed Ceremony values. (not sure on what this percentage should be)
This ability would now be for the Templar who is good at "predicting" damage. Its high cost and cast time would make spamming it less useful, but it could be spammed when you know big group damage is coming, or when 1 person is being hammered on for most of their Health. It would make a good supplement for smaller, controlled heals and HOTS.

Healing Ritual - This is supposed to be an AOE heal to compete with Grand Healing. All forms still do bonus 30% to caster.
Base - No longer has a cast time. Heals allies in 10 meter radius for ~3000 base (or approximately 2 ticks of Grand Healing).
Ritual of Rebirth - Costs/Scales from Stamina etc. If the caster in under 50% Health, the heal is strengthened by 100% (this percentage may need tuning).
Lingering Ritual - Also leaves a HOT on healed allies that heals for the initial amount over 4-8 seconds. Not sure about the timer for the HOT. Whatever makes it decent but not over-powered.
THIS should be the primary Templar heal. In essence it is a mana version of Vigor, with a stamina option to allow Stamina Templars to throw out the occasional heal and still benefit from Templar passives. The 50% Health requirement for the Stamina morph should prevent any crazy stacking/exploiting. The 10 meter radius is the same size as Vigor, and is not made worse by a root+cast time.

Some of the above may seem wonky or out of place, but keep in mind I did re-balance almost the entire tree (and class) and these are designed to fit in with that.

This is good stuff. It's a well thought out and intelligent post and uses real compromise to balance.

I would think that the problem with an AOE heal with no cast time is the ability to spam. Would the global cool down system address that issue well enough to keep the streamers from crying too much?

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

Baltic, I'm with you 100%. But...

At this point in the thread, it appears that people are just trying to dilute the message, get the thread locked, or make us look like idiots in some way. They play a class at, or near, the top and they want to keep it that way. They like their power and they like that healers are fodder.

I honestly don't understand the outcry. Healers aren't responsible for killing. Their job is to assist the team. Some of us choose to be hard to kill, and because we don't die as fast as they think we should, they *** and moan on their streams and get abilities nerfed.

I'm done with this thread. I can find better things to do than read and respond to insults.

BalticBlues · February 2016

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

Would the global cool down system address that issue well enough to keep the streamers from crying too much?

Would a one sided "cool down" system really make sense?
How credible are streamers spamming WB, demanding a nerf of spamming BOL?

WB currently even is a broken skill, because it allows killing without fightback.
If anything would need a cool down, it would be WB, not BOL.

I would prefer if ZOS would fix what is broken, like WB or Charge,
instead of breaking things that did work up to now.

Derra · February 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Hm i think we got buffed. I dont really have a comparison yet but i am pretty satisfied with most of the changes. I still cant make a picture of the new pvp situation but i think i will just be stronger than i am now but ill have to see if i can match the new dks and petsorcs.

If it makes you feel any better. Petsorc will most likely remain a unicorn build. It´s super strong for dueling now on pts but in open pvp pet UI being as clunky as it is will prevent any use of them apart from having a passive stick twilight healingbot.

On topic:

I think it´s really sad for templars and DKs to still not have access to a magica major expedition buff.

Brrrofski · February 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

The fact I've done pugs is what makes me say most are bad. Running 12k health, using an atro as an ultimate, wearing heavy armour as dps... Standing on stupid happens 10 times more frequently then when I group with my guilt mates. At least.

And what about non temp healer? What does a sorc, Dk or ng do for burst heals? They don't have BOL.

I've done dungeons with all those healers. It took a bit more coordination, but It was time.

They don't have a panic button. Plenty of non temp healers do absolutely fine.

So sorry, I find the argument about pve irrelevant. I really do. I'll be fine healing on my temp. You'll just need some additional l healing skills in your bar. Not the end of the world. People will adjust.

CP5 · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Hm i think we got buffed. I dont really have a comparison yet but i am pretty satisfied with most of the changes. I still cant make a picture of the new pvp situation but i think i will just be stronger than i am now but ill have to see if i can match the new dks and petsorcs.

If it makes you feel any better. Petsorc will most likely remain a unicorn build. It´s super strong for dueling now on pts but in open pvp pet UI being as clunky as it is will prevent any use of them apart from having a passive stick twilight healingbot.

On topic:

I think it´s really sad for templars and DKs to still not have access to a magica major expedition buff.

Does the pts dk chains still give the 2s major buff? Guess that's helpful for keeping the gap closed, but more of a check on ZOS's list if anything.

Brrrofski · February 2016

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

Baltic, I'm with you 100%. But...

At this point in the thread, it appears that people are just trying to dilute the message, get the thread locked, or make us look like idiots in some way. They play a class at, or near, the top and they want to keep it that way. They like their power and they like that healers are fodder.

I honestly don't understand the outcry. Healers aren't responsible for killing. Their job is to assist the team. Some of us choose to be hard to kill, and because we don't die as fast as they think we should, they *** and moan on their streams and get abilities nerfed.

I'm done with this thread. I can find better things to do than read and respond to insults.

But you will still heal yourself. Other people are less likely to luckily catch on to you healing yourself though. Nobody has a problem with you healing yourself. That was never brought up.

Brrrofski · February 2016

Chelos wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

But they aren't giving random people around them 7k heals out of nowhere.

Just like DKs aren't giving someone a damage shield out of nowhere...
There's others but I'm too lazy.
So, no point.
Healing is like that in the game, targeting is not an option.

That 1.5k shield really done me over there! Dam that Dk giving people a 1.5k shield! Saving the world.

Let's look at other skill.

Barrier. Nerfed. Only 6 now.

Purge. Nerfed. Only group now.

Rapid maneuver. Nerfed. Only group now.

So bol is sort of on line with them. A skill being used and anyone in the vicinity for no other reason than being there get's the benefits.

It's a completely stupid way that it works currently.

Was nerfing bol to heal on less person the right thing? No. A LoS and/or limiting it to group members would have done. But it's something at least.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

And what about non temp healer? What does a sorc do for burst heals? They don't have BOL.

They don't have a panic button. Plenty of non temp healers do absolutely fine.

They will very shortly.

staracino_ESO · February 2016

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is good stuff. It's a well thought out and intelligent post and uses real compromise to balance.

I would think that the problem with an AOE heal with no cast time is the ability to spam. Would the global cool down system address that issue well enough to keep the streamers from crying too much?

I looked at the numbers, and my estimate for the healing value for the new Ritual would place it below Vigor as far as healing done; so spamming Vigor would be more game-breaking than spamming this new Ritual. It would be slightly better than spamming Grand Healing, though, save the mana regen from Healing Springs. Also, it would make the Templar very obvious, since they are running around within 10m of everyone doing a silly prayer dance, and with no spammable BoL, the healer would die fast if focused, as it should be. The stamina morph could function similar to current BoL if they keep dropping below 50%, but they would run out of stamina fast enough that I feel the balance would be there.

Brrrofski · February 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

And what about non temp healer? What does a sorc do for burst heals? They don't have BOL.

They don't have a panic button. Plenty of non temp healers do absolutely fine.

They will very shortly.

The reliance on the pet being alive stops it being a reliable burst heal.

Pretty sure people will stick to temp heals. Major mending on resto heals now, plus their usual bag of tricks. Temps will be fine.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

The problem you have is that pugs usually means bad players.
So if bol was keeping pugs alive, it further highlights how much of a crutch skill it is.

There again shows your derogatory elitist stance.
PUGs do not mean "bad" players. PUGs mean average players.
Players who do not run in gold armor, studied builds and live in forums like you probably do.

How much time per day do you honestly spend in PUGs?
From your posts, I would assume about zero.
If so, better keep your wisdom about PUGs for yourself.

You mean BOL is a "crutch skill" because it helps keeping average players alive?
It's better to nerf BOL, let them die and stick to the few simple dungeons?
If so, you pro players may find yourself pretty alone in the game soon...

In other classes, there are skills which are much more overpowered in PvP than humble BOL.
Like skills freezing players who do not even have a chance to react before they are killed.
Like skills allowing one-shotting from stealth so that players do not have a chance to react.
And these people want to tell us BOL is overpowered?

ZOS should better fix what is broken instead of nerfing the things that work. Catering only for the elite DD streamers for even faster kills is making the game worse, not better.

And what about non temp healer? What does a sorc do for burst heals? They don't have BOL.

They don't have a panic button. Plenty of non temp healers do absolutely fine.

They will very shortly.

The reliance on the pet being alive stops it being a reliable burst heal.

Pretty sure people will stick to temp heals. Major mending on resto heals now, plus their usual bag of tricks. Temps will be fine.

I didnt say Templars wouldnt be fine. I was just pointing out you were leaving facts out of your arguement.

Brrrofski · February 2016

No I wasn't.

I'm talking about current game on live.

Comparing temps to healers now.

Templars with nerfed bol still have more than healers do now.

Sorcs still won't have a reliable burst heal.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

No I wasn't.

I'm talking about current game on live.

Comparing temps to healers now.

Which is why i said they will shortly. You ever feel like you are going in circles?

Brrrofski · February 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

No I wasn't.

I'm talking about current game on live.

Comparing temps to healers now.

Which is why i said they will shortly. You ever feel like you are going in circles?

And I said it still won't be a reliable burst heal.

I said templars will be fine.

You said you never said they wouldn't be fine and I wad leaving out facts.

I pointed out I never left anything out. Which o didn't.

So what is your point? Your nitpicking at my posts.

This is a feedback thread. Part of my feedback on temps is that the bol nerf is good. I've given reason why. It's my opinion. Nobody has to like it.

Everyone is acting like I want to break templars. I play templars more than any other class. I just thing one aspect is too strong.

Sam thing with my sorc. For the love of God stop harness and hardened ward stacking. It needs addressing.

Same thing with my NB. Jumping in, doing stupid damage from stealth and then hiding if it fails is cheap and needed addressing.

I play everything. Stam and magica. I'm not biased towards any class. I just say thing how I see them. And sorry, but bol it just overkill on it's current state. Both in pvp and pve.

Brrrofski · February 2016

There is another thread about eclipse on the go at the moment.

For me, no matter what they do to it, I wouldn't use it until cc immunity is altered.

You can't just have it not give immunity, as you'd totally stop someone casting. Linking it to cc doesn't work though. Why would I use eclipse instead of hard ccing and bursting someone down?

It needs to be looked at again I think.

AfkNinja · February 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Was nerfing bol to heal on less person the right thing? No. A LoS and/or limiting it to group members would have done. But it's something at least.

Brrrofski wrote: »

This is a feedback thread. Part of my feedback on temps is that the bol nerf is good. I've given reason why. It's my opinion. Nobody has to like it.

Actually you said it was the wrong change.....

Everyone is acting like I want to break templars. I play templars more than any other class. I just thing one aspect is too strong. Same thing with my sorc. For the love of God stop harness and hardened ward stacking. It needs addressing.

What if ZOS nerfed Hardened ward shield strength 25% and called it good? Didn't remove shield stacking. Would the problem be fixed? Probably not. This is what your argument sounds like to us.

Same thing with my NB. Jumping in, doing stupid damage from stealth and then hiding if it fails is cheap and needed addressing.

And promptly after "fixing" it, ZOS reversed most of the nerf due to feedback from Nightblades.

I play everything. Stam and magica. I'm not biased towards any class. I just say thing how I see them. And sorry, but bol it just overkill on it's current state. Both in pvp and pve.

The way you formulate your arguments makes it seem you are indeed very biased.

They are merely pointing out your argument is a terrible one. You strait up admitted the BOL nerf was the wrong change and your response is "But it's something at least" (Why do you have this mentality about a class you supposedly love and play frequently? It's not the correct change, and it will likely result in a future re-nerf BUT BY GOLLY AT LEAST THEY DID SOMETHING!!!). So what you are saying is that Line of sightless heals was an issue, which they didn't fix, but it's okay cause they nerfed something that didn't need nerfing. Keep in mind our side heals in pvp only heal for 50% of the primary heal which is further reduced by 50% by battle spirit. So you're arguing that taking away a side burst heal at 25% of it's max strength was a good change, even though it in no way resolves the issues people were complaining about in the first place.

On top of this you display an attitude of being too good for pick up groups because they make mistakes? Cause no one has given them the information you looked up online? You're expecting everyone who plays this game to do research before they play any dungeons? The whole reason I run PUG's sometimes is to help new/inexperienced players, why do you look down on them so much? Most of them are quite nice and listen if you're not rude.

Bottom line is the change does not fix what they wanted it to, instead it unfairly targets pug dungeon runs which were never a problem. If they had to reduce healing it should have been the primary heal not the secondary and once again the issue will not be resolved till they add line of sight checks to all heals.

Brrrofski · February 2016

But if you run pugs to help people, and you are the healer, you should be able to adapt and heal the group anyway.

Why is making something more challenging a bad thing? If a healer in a pug is a bad one and relies on bol, people will start to say "look man, you need to use other skills now". He'll adapt, use other skills and be able to do this job.

And sorry, but when I've pugged the most common cause of people falling down dead is because they stood in aoe too long or didn't block when they should. First few times, fine. But wiping on a boss 4 or more times to that same, silly, basic mistake that is covered in the *** tutorial, then yes, they are bad. Bol won't cancel out as much stupidness anymore. People will need to wise up.

This will force people to think more about healing and step their game up. Just like tanks did with no stam regen after IC. Look at how horrified people were. And look now. It ain't a thing. It's the norm. People are still tanking ok.

And zos never actually fix the issue. Shields, they brought in a stam set when stam wasn't the people struggling with harness on top of shields. Aoe caps is another example. Bring in vicious death. Bol is another one. But I'll take it for now, like people will slam on vicious death and people spent stones on shieldbreaker.

SeptimusDova · February 2016

Brrrrrrrrrrrofski

Eclipse and its morphs could do something different and still be effective. ZOS just does not want to make it so.

Take my idea for example.

Instead of being a circle make it a square(Cube). The opponent is in a square that keeps them fixed for 6 seconds and then goes boom unless they break it. But the stamina cost to break would be very high so much so that another one of the square snares might be a total stamina drain they could drink a potion to break the second one and now they have a potion cooldown. And while in the Square they cannot cast a projectile spell or caltrops as they would be square snared squared by the effects of the caltrops in their cube(Home).

bol was a symptom not the cause. we both know that. and I myself do not even address bol. it is irrelevant at this point. the focus should be on how we move forward.

we all know that zos is not going to backpedal one bit on what they have done. the silence on this thread and the absence of comments by the devs is proof enough of that.

So from this point on we have two choices we can pick another class or we can move forward with what we have and see where it takes us. My wallet has spoken and what ever I do now will be only if it is free.

Blech43 · February 2016

This is getting absurd.

ZOS, if you're reading this 65-page (and counting) Templar thread, please respond.

At this point, it doesn't even have to be a substantive response. Just say "Hi" so that we know you're here.

SeptimusDova · February 2016

The other morph could be a pyramid, that will continue to shrink for 6 seconds, and as it shrinks applies crush damage to the occupants, unless they can break it.

SeptimusDova · February 2016

Blech43 get ready to throw all your buffs out. This is going to be a 100 page thread. Stam Temps get ready to cast repentance and throw a rally up. Somebody get ready to cast a few RD's Egon says we can cross the beams right now. Rofski get ready to chuck some shards.

It's half time in the ESO Forums Trials=!!!!!!

Brrrofski · February 2016

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Brrrrrrrrrrrofski

Eclipse and its morphs could do something different and still be effective. ZOS just does not want to make it so.

Take my idea for example.

Instead of being a circle make it a square(Cube). The opponent is in a square that keeps them fixed for 6 seconds and then goes boom unless they break it. But the stamina cost to break would be very high so much so that another one of the square snares might be a total stamina drain they could drink a potion to break the second one and now they have a potion cooldown. And while in the Square they cannot cast a projectile spell or caltrops as they would be square snared squared by the effects of the caltrops in their cube(Home).

bol was a symptom not the cause. we both know that. and I myself do not even address bol. it is irrelevant at this point. the focus should be on how we move forward.

we all know that zos is not going to backpedal one bit on what they have done. the silence on this thread and the absence of comments by the devs is proof enough of that.

So from this point on we have two choices we can pick another class or we can move forward with what we have and see where it takes us. My wallet has spoken and what ever I do now will be only if it is free.

I just think they need a work around of the cc. I don't know how they'd do it.

I'll still play my templars more than anything else in pvp for sure.

LoS wouldn't completely not punish pugs anyway. Pretty sure that could come into play on a few occasions.

SeptimusDova · February 2016

Treat the globe /bubble as it currently is as a controlled player instance(Looped animation). They get locked out of the group and lose all group buffs. that would cause plenty of havoc. Or while encaged in the hamster ball they can be pushed around like a big moonball off into the slaughterfish. Anything would be better than the ill thought out approaches. Individually the adjustments made seem surmountable. As a whole it becomes a big poop sandwich to choke down with a frosty glass of urine

timidobserver · February 2016

Templar: Can we has mobility?
ZOS: No cause homogenization.
Templar: Can we has escape?
ZOS: No cause homogenization
Templar: Can we has less channeled abilities.
ZOS: No cause homogenization.
Templar: Can we has magicka scaling blazing shield?
Zos: No cause homogenization.
Templar: Can we has mitigation and resource management without tiny circle?
Zos: No cause.......homogenization
Templar: Can we has AoE cc or at least an immobilize.
Zos: ............................ No cause homogenization.
Sorcerer: Can my pet has an identical but stronger breath of life?
ZOS: Sure, why not.
DK: Hey I want a burst heal too.
ZOS: k u got it.

SeptimusDova · February 2016

BRRRRofski

"LoS wouldn't completely not punish pugs anyway. Pretty sure that could come into play on a few occasions."

My LoS comment wasn't about punishing pugs, mugs ,bugs, rugs, scalawags, halfwits,dimwits or ***.

It was about preventing the Blind Heal,the hide and heal AP gains in PVP.

That was the issue a single BOL casted from Cover could frustrate a good fight. And not just BOL but all things that work from hiding.

Not the NB cloak hide.. But the I'm behind this wall nay nay nay nay nay you cant touch me ! Crap that went on and will continue to go on this did not fix the issue and that it what it was supposed to do.

I believes they were told this in beta as well. back then it was prolly like .. yeah , yeah oh yeah we will get to that. Then they saw a squirrel and forgot everything.

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

SeptimusDova wrote: »

BRRRRofski

"LoS wouldn't completely not punish pugs anyway. Pretty sure that could come into play on a few occasions."

My LoS comment wasn't about punishing pugs, mugs ,bugs, rugs, scalawags, halfwits,dimwits or ***.

It was about preventing the Blind Heal,the hide and heal AP gains in PVP.

That was the issue a single BOL casted from Cover could frustrate a good fight. And not just BOL but all things that work from hiding.

Not the NB cloak hide.. But the I'm behind this wall nay nay nay nay nay you cant touch me ! Crap that went on and will continue to go on this did not fix the issue and that it what it was supposed to do.

I believes they were told this in beta as well. back then it was prolly like .. yeah , yeah oh yeah we will get to that. Then they saw a squirrel and forgot everything.

Yes, all changes to skills are coming from PvP. I really wish they could separate the rulesets for PvP and PvE. So sick of stuff getting nerfed due to PvP WB spamming streamers.

Brrrofski · February 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

BRRRRofski

"LoS wouldn't completely not punish pugs anyway. Pretty sure that could come into play on a few occasions."

My LoS comment wasn't about punishing pugs, mugs ,bugs, rugs, scalawags, halfwits,dimwits or ***.

It was about preventing the Blind Heal,the hide and heal AP gains in PVP.

That was the issue a single BOL casted from Cover could frustrate a good fight. And not just BOL but all things that work from hiding.

Not the NB cloak hide.. But the I'm behind this wall nay nay nay nay nay you cant touch me ! Crap that went on and will continue to go on this did not fix the issue and that it what it was supposed to do.

I believes they were told this in beta as well. back then it was prolly like .. yeah , yeah oh yeah we will get to that. Then they saw a squirrel and forgot everything.

Yes, all changes to skills are coming from PvP. I really wish they could separate the rulesets for PvP and PvE. So sick of stuff getting nerfed due to PvP WB spamming streamers.

I agree, that needs to happen.

They do need to split them up.

But until they do, they have no choice but to balance around pvp. That's where the difference between classes is highlighted the most.