Official Feedback Thread for Templars

dodgehopper_ESO

shellin3D wrote: »

I tested and have seen that Biting Jabs (Puncturing Strikes morph) is not triggering one of the Two Handed passive abilities called "Heavy Weapons" which says that "Axes grant your melee attacks 16% to apply a bleed dealing XXXXX physical damage over 6 seconds." I have a Battle Axe equipped. I always thought that biting jabs is a melee attack especially since it can trigger the Ravager set, Red Diamond, (Impeial passive), and Adrenaline Rush (Redguard passive).

That's a shame, I didn't realize that.

dodgehopper_ESO

AOECAPS wrote: »

@FENGRUSH have enjoyed watching you "protect your house" with your stamplar

The video I saw him post, he didn't actually use a 'House' though. His Templar build is basically a nightblade build, with a couple golden moves thrown in for good measure. I'm not mocking him for doing that, its what a lot of us Stamplars do, I'm just saying that maybe people should pay a little more notice to what we're talking about on the issue. We give up mobility, but we don't get much back in return for it as a Stamplar other than Balanced Warrior, low regeneration #'s, and Repentance for when the battle is over. I'm not going to deny Javelin is a useful skill, but it is hardly unique to the class.

bowmanz607

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow....

Steel tornado, steel tornado, steel tornado....

Ambush, ambush, ambush...

Idinuse wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

I have v16 magica and stamina templars. So I have no bias against them.

I also celebrated the bol nerf. It's so frigging annoying when fighting that a templar anywhere in the range, who may be having his own fight and doesn't even know his alliance memeber is fighting, heals himself and then the guy i'm fighting is getting healed.

It's way too strong in pvp. Pve wise, most the content is far too easy as it is. So having to use more than bol isn't a big deal.

So I'm glad it got nerfed. That along with the barrier and purge nerf may mean that people will have to use their brains and not just get saved by other people who happen to be near them.

I honestly can't wait for Sorcerers with the new improved BoL from Twilight Matriarch, who will now be fully shielded with a refreshable Hardened Ward, to start stacking and healing even better in a 35m no line of site circle.

People are gonna lament the old BoL.

It does sort of take the teeth out of their justification that BOL was "Too powerful a heal" when they take that exact same heal and give it to sorcerers... and make it even better (costing no mana, on a shieldable pet, spammable), while leaving ours still costing the same amount yet healing for 25% less.

But hey, whatever. Gives me an even better reason to level my sorcerer and heal on him instead. Assuming I decide to keep playing.

Lol I cant wait for people to replace burst healing of templars with pets - Im sure thatll work out great.

Exactly, it straight up won't happen. Nobody will run them on pvp. Nobody.

To be fair a 95% of the crying about BoL was the fact that the templar could be hiding behind a wall/up the stairs/in the tower unseen and untouched and still healing and spamming away saving people.

That is the role the pet is perfect for. Which is why it is so funny to me.

Why do people word it as crying. Healing two people, randomly within it's radius is plain stupid and has zero level of skill. People in groups will have to run their own heal now abs actually multi task.

A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning.

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Judging by the Steel Tornado, Snipe, and WB one button hammering, it clearly is. These skills are as brain and skill less as you keep repeating BoL is, but OP on completely new highs. Do you personally think killing a player from 30-40 meters that doesen't even have time to react is skill-full? Constantly mashing one button Stel Tornado requires skill? Stacking shields and other mitigation is skilled play that requires a brain?

But no, it's the Templars one button heals that is constantly called brainless and unskilled. Try, really try, playing a Templar in high end game PvP with anything that isn't a build one hit wonder. Trust me you'll know what ESO hard mode really means.

again, I never said that people didnt spam a single button, i was just pointing out that the person i quoted enjoyed spamming one button. that taking away that one button spam will ruin it for that person. that is ridiculous and i say good riddance. Any change that makes one button spammers have to switch it up is good. I also never said other abilities shouldnt be looked at, but this is a templar thread not a "hey they can do it over there, i want to do it over here" thread. That is the problem with many people. they want there ability to remain unchanged an unbalanced, because other abilities still do things they shouldnt. How the heck would a game ever get balanced with that mentality?

Sure, do something with wrecking blow. but before you can do anything to it you need to fix the broken mechanics to see if it still operates in the same fashion afterwards. perhaps make it bashable. who knows. they tweaked tornado. will it hel? we will see. perhaps if people do break up a little more this patch it will be less useful. also, now there is physical damage mitigation now. will it still be an issue? maybe. Lets add into the fact that stam was outplaying mag on top of that fact that mag aoe sucked. will the mag meta coming chnage tornado spam? maybe. Will the new aoe be wall of elements? maybe. Will the gap closer change change the ambush spam? maybe. the point is, dont try and make it seem like there are not changes coming to other spammable abilities. Also, dont try to use a spammable ability people use that has so many broken mechanics tied to it.

But alas, we are not talking about other problems the game has, but a specific issue that was/is tied to bol in a general thread about templars. nothing more. So let me make my point more clear. If a player wants to leave because they say that they have their fun in this game solely from running around spamming one button, and then turns around and says changing that will ruin the game for them, then i say good riddance.

But that person didn't say that. This is what they said that YOU highlighted. "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast." So you automatically translated healing and support as one button spamming.

but the context of that quote was in terms of the bol nerf. the person was speaking to the bol nerf and then said "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone."

Based on the context of the statement and what the statement said, the person effectively stated that bol is how he heals his group and taking away the current bol will ruin the game and force the player to leave. aka, you nerfed the one healing ability i use to heal in groups, i call it fun, and now that i cant do that i am leaving.

that is how i translated it. didnt think i had to spell it out. but alas, it is the forums.

So you ONLY read the highlighted part? This is what was right before that and it was in response to someone who said people should just heal themselves. "A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me." Being a tank is already irrelevant in PvP, if being made a healer is irrelevant than all that will be out there will be DPS. There will be no incentive whatsoever to group other than to form a giant lag ball and win by immobilizing the enemy through slow frame rates and massive ping. So I read it as saying if you take interactive grouping out of PvP then it will be much less appealing to many players who may just take their money elsewhere.

good grief. i highlighted that portion of the text. a relevant portion that you left out when you quoted it. here....

"A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning"

this quote came directly after another quote talking about the bol nerf which was in turn was part of a larger discussion regarding the bol nerf. The person is saying that the bol nerf will stop him from playing because he cant hit one button to heal his group any more. Even yy your understanding of it, which is an understandable view of the reading, the person is equating the bol nerf to people being disincentive to group and ultimately leading to the doom of the game. The person is literally saying that because i cant spam one button to heal anymore, not only will i be leaving, but the rest of the community will leave because they can no longer hit one button to heal. How the hell do you think non-templars have been healing this whole time? nerfing bol like this does not make a healer irrelevant. it simply doesnt make it easy mode any more.

The bolded part is my quote. I also made another post stating that I don't have Breath of Life (BoL) on my character. I chose the other morph for the Magicka recovery. I only PVP. I only play healers & support. I also stated that I press way more than 1 button. Either you're trolling, or you really need to L2Forum.

What you don't seem to understand is that BoL was a perfect heal for a hybrid build character. I play focused characters, but not everyone wants to play that way. Someone could play a Paladin-type melee build and throw out a heal every now and then, which would be as close as their going to get to a healing aura. Is this an optimal build? No. Their attributes are all over the place. I'm flabbergasted that such a build would pose a serious threat to a hard-core PVP'er.

Instead of fixing the LoS problem, ZOS nerfed the number of targets. A "better" nerf would have been to lower the heal and keep the number of targets.

are we still on this???

excuse me for not reading every last forum post on 63 pages. my bad.

That said, I stand by my interpretation of what you said. I did read all of the quoted material from that particular conversation you jumped in on. Not only did you not mention anything about you using the other morph or even your play style, but you also did not even have more than the one comment. Furthermore, your comment was placed directly after a few comments in the discussion about bol. What other interpretation of your comment was their supposed to be? Based on the context of the conversation and the comments in which your comment followed, my interpretation was a proper interpretation of what you were trying to say. It went from comments discussing bol to if they take healing away you will be done. seems to be equating bol nerf discussion to the death of healing. An ability that requires button mashing to operate.

Perhaps placing your comments in a better context would help interpretations of it. dont get mad at me that you jumped in on a discussion and made a comment that seemed to have a bearing on the actual discussion at hand. You cant expect everyone to read every single comment, but you should expect a persons comments to belong within the context of the discussion they jumped in on.

joleda4ub17_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow....

Steel tornado, steel tornado, steel tornado....

Ambush, ambush, ambush...

Idinuse wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

I have v16 magica and stamina templars. So I have no bias against them.

I also celebrated the bol nerf. It's so frigging annoying when fighting that a templar anywhere in the range, who may be having his own fight and doesn't even know his alliance memeber is fighting, heals himself and then the guy i'm fighting is getting healed.

It's way too strong in pvp. Pve wise, most the content is far too easy as it is. So having to use more than bol isn't a big deal.

So I'm glad it got nerfed. That along with the barrier and purge nerf may mean that people will have to use their brains and not just get saved by other people who happen to be near them.

I honestly can't wait for Sorcerers with the new improved BoL from Twilight Matriarch, who will now be fully shielded with a refreshable Hardened Ward, to start stacking and healing even better in a 35m no line of site circle.

People are gonna lament the old BoL.

It does sort of take the teeth out of their justification that BOL was "Too powerful a heal" when they take that exact same heal and give it to sorcerers... and make it even better (costing no mana, on a shieldable pet, spammable), while leaving ours still costing the same amount yet healing for 25% less.

But hey, whatever. Gives me an even better reason to level my sorcerer and heal on him instead. Assuming I decide to keep playing.

Lol I cant wait for people to replace burst healing of templars with pets - Im sure thatll work out great.

Exactly, it straight up won't happen. Nobody will run them on pvp. Nobody.

To be fair a 95% of the crying about BoL was the fact that the templar could be hiding behind a wall/up the stairs/in the tower unseen and untouched and still healing and spamming away saving people.

That is the role the pet is perfect for. Which is why it is so funny to me.

Why do people word it as crying. Healing two people, randomly within it's radius is plain stupid and has zero level of skill. People in groups will have to run their own heal now abs actually multi task.

A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning.

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Judging by the Steel Tornado, Snipe, and WB one button hammering, it clearly is. These skills are as brain and skill less as you keep repeating BoL is, but OP on completely new highs. Do you personally think killing a player from 30-40 meters that doesen't even have time to react is skill-full? Constantly mashing one button Stel Tornado requires skill? Stacking shields and other mitigation is skilled play that requires a brain?

But no, it's the Templars one button heals that is constantly called brainless and unskilled. Try, really try, playing a Templar in high end game PvP with anything that isn't a build one hit wonder. Trust me you'll know what ESO hard mode really means.

again, I never said that people didnt spam a single button, i was just pointing out that the person i quoted enjoyed spamming one button. that taking away that one button spam will ruin it for that person. that is ridiculous and i say good riddance. Any change that makes one button spammers have to switch it up is good. I also never said other abilities shouldnt be looked at, but this is a templar thread not a "hey they can do it over there, i want to do it over here" thread. That is the problem with many people. they want there ability to remain unchanged an unbalanced, because other abilities still do things they shouldnt. How the heck would a game ever get balanced with that mentality?

Sure, do something with wrecking blow. but before you can do anything to it you need to fix the broken mechanics to see if it still operates in the same fashion afterwards. perhaps make it bashable. who knows. they tweaked tornado. will it hel? we will see. perhaps if people do break up a little more this patch it will be less useful. also, now there is physical damage mitigation now. will it still be an issue? maybe. Lets add into the fact that stam was outplaying mag on top of that fact that mag aoe sucked. will the mag meta coming chnage tornado spam? maybe. Will the new aoe be wall of elements? maybe. Will the gap closer change change the ambush spam? maybe. the point is, dont try and make it seem like there are not changes coming to other spammable abilities. Also, dont try to use a spammable ability people use that has so many broken mechanics tied to it.

But alas, we are not talking about other problems the game has, but a specific issue that was/is tied to bol in a general thread about templars. nothing more. So let me make my point more clear. If a player wants to leave because they say that they have their fun in this game solely from running around spamming one button, and then turns around and says changing that will ruin the game for them, then i say good riddance.

But that person didn't say that. This is what they said that YOU highlighted. "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast." So you automatically translated healing and support as one button spamming.

but the context of that quote was in terms of the bol nerf. the person was speaking to the bol nerf and then said "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone."

Based on the context of the statement and what the statement said, the person effectively stated that bol is how he heals his group and taking away the current bol will ruin the game and force the player to leave. aka, you nerfed the one healing ability i use to heal in groups, i call it fun, and now that i cant do that i am leaving.

that is how i translated it. didnt think i had to spell it out. but alas, it is the forums.

So you ONLY read the highlighted part? This is what was right before that and it was in response to someone who said people should just heal themselves. "A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me." Being a tank is already irrelevant in PvP, if being made a healer is irrelevant than all that will be out there will be DPS. There will be no incentive whatsoever to group other than to form a giant lag ball and win by immobilizing the enemy through slow frame rates and massive ping. So I read it as saying if you take interactive grouping out of PvP then it will be much less appealing to many players who may just take their money elsewhere.

good grief. i highlighted that portion of the text. a relevant portion that you left out when you quoted it. here....

"A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning"

this quote came directly after another quote talking about the bol nerf which was in turn was part of a larger discussion regarding the bol nerf. The person is saying that the bol nerf will stop him from playing because he cant hit one button to heal his group any more. Even yy your understanding of it, which is an understandable view of the reading, the person is equating the bol nerf to people being disincentive to group and ultimately leading to the doom of the game. The person is literally saying that because i cant spam one button to heal anymore, not only will i be leaving, but the rest of the community will leave because they can no longer hit one button to heal. How the hell do you think non-templars have been healing this whole time? nerfing bol like this does not make a healer irrelevant. it simply doesnt make it easy mode any more.

The bolded part is my quote. I also made another post stating that I don't have Breath of Life (BoL) on my character. I chose the other morph for the Magicka recovery. I only PVP. I only play healers & support. I also stated that I press way more than 1 button. Either you're trolling, or you really need to L2Forum.

What you don't seem to understand is that BoL was a perfect heal for a hybrid build character. I play focused characters, but not everyone wants to play that way. Someone could play a Paladin-type melee build and throw out a heal every now and then, which would be as close as their going to get to a healing aura. Is this an optimal build? No. Their attributes are all over the place. I'm flabbergasted that such a build would pose a serious threat to a hard-core PVP'er.

Instead of fixing the LoS problem, ZOS nerfed the number of targets. A "better" nerf would have been to lower the heal and keep the number of targets.

are we still on this???

excuse me for not reading every last forum post on 63 pages. my bad.

That said, I stand by my interpretation of what you said. I did read all of the quoted material from that particular conversation you jumped in on. Not only did you not mention anything about you using the other morph or even your play style, but you also did not even have more than the one comment. Furthermore, your comment was placed directly after a few comments in the discussion about bol. What other interpretation of your comment was their supposed to be? Based on the context of the conversation and the comments in which your comment followed, my interpretation was a proper interpretation of what you were trying to say. It went from comments discussing bol to if they take healing away you will be done. seems to be equating bol nerf discussion to the death of healing. An ability that requires button mashing to operate.

Perhaps placing your comments in a better context would help interpretations of it. dont get mad at me that you jumped in on a discussion and made a comment that seemed to have a bearing on the actual discussion at hand. You cant expect everyone to read every single comment, but you should expect a persons comments to belong within the context of the discussion they jumped in on.

Why are you so negative? Why is nerfing BoL so important to you? Pound-for-pound, BoL is one of the most expensive abilities in the game. For what it delivers, it costs a lot of Magicka! If you're half as good in PVP as you are at assuming the worst and belittling people, you'd have almost no problem with BoL spammers. If they truly on press one button, then debuff them. Swap to bow and poison them or use some other debuff. They're never take their finger off the 1 key to press 2 to purge and their heals won't work as well! Seriously, it ain't that hard.

bowmanz607

I don't like to be negative. But it is irratating to sit back and watch people so blindly sit behind such an op ability. I understand, it is the bread and butter of templars. That doesn't mean it is not op. I main a nb and I made a whole thread on what ablitzes are op and what needed work etc. People who blindly sit by and and refuse to have a disscussion about the ability iratate me. This is what your post seemed like to me. Especially based on the context in which it was placed.

That said, you clarified your position for me. I actually agree that this was the improper nerf. It should have been reduced healing. But I also understand where the combat team is coming from with what they were trying to accomplish with what they did. I for one think it won't pan out how they expect because the other abilities need work for them to accomplish their overall goal behind the bill nerf.

Also, the whole it cost this much and eats my resources is a weak argument. Champion points take the legs out from beneath that argument. I know for a fact you can spam bol damn near endlessly with close to minimal effort. This is the same arguments sorcs used for original streak morph, but despite those comments you still saw sorcs streaking from one end of cyro to another.

As for the easy to take down a Templar heals just do this and that....what you think I dont? Major defile, timed executes and bursts and cc with multiple players hammering away doing little. Of course it is not as hard taking down scrubs. Just like it is not hard to take down a shield stacking sorcs that is a scrub. But we are not and should not be talking about scrubs. You can't balance the game around that or not fully leveled toons. It should be balanced on the potential of each class. Feng rush video is not an exception to templars bol issue, it is the rule. It is a common occurrence in pvp. Not some extreme examples, but common one. Got a Templar pug? No problem, just slot bol and zig zag in this ball of people.

You know why they never take their finger off bol to purge? Because they don't half to. I you reduced my healing by 50%? No worries I'm still pumping out 15k bol. Why purge when purging is what gets you killed?

AfkNinja

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I don't like to be negative. But it is irratating to sit back and watch people so blindly sit behind such an op ability. I understand, it is the bread and butter of templars. That doesn't mean it is not op. I main a nb and I made a whole thread on what ablitzes are op and what needed work etc. People who blindly sit by and and refuse to have a disscussion about the ability iratate me. This is what your post seemed like to me. Especially based on the context in which it was placed.

That said, you clarified your position for me. I actually agree that this was the improper nerf. It should have been reduced healing. (You would treat the symptom, like ZOS, but ignore the root issue.)
But I also understand where the combat team is coming from with what they were trying to accomplish with what they did. I for one think it won't pan out how they expect because the other abilities need work for them to accomplish their overall goal behind the bill nerf.

Also, the whole it cost this much and eats my resources is a weak argument. Champion points take the legs out from beneath that argument. (No they don't, there is a cap there are always sacrifices to make to get a particular effect from CP)
I know for a fact you can spam bol damn near endlessly with close to minimal effort. (You are incorrect again.)
This is the same arguments sorcs used for original streak morph, but despite those comments you still saw sorcs streaking from one end of cyro to another (Because they have amazing sustain, something Templar do not have.) .

As for the easy to take down a Templar heals just do this and that....what you think I dont? Major defile, timed executes and bursts and cc with multiple players hammering away doing little. Of course it is not as hard taking down scrubs. Just like it is not hard to take down a shield stacking sorcs that is a scrub. But we are not and should not be talking about scrubs. You can't balance the game around that or not fully leveled toons. It should be balanced on the potential of each class. Feng rush video is not an exception to templars bol issue, it is the rule. It is a common occurrence in pvp. Not some extreme examples, but common one. Got a Templar pug? No problem, just slot bol and zig zag in this ball of people.

You know why they never take their finger off bol to purge? Because they don't half to. I you reduced my healing by 50%? No worries I'm still pumping out 15k bol. (This is false.)
Why purge when purging is what gets you killed?

Your first mistake was comparing Sorc to Templar. Sorc has much higher passive resource sustain. Templar can not stand in one spot and hammer BOL all day long, it's just too expensive (and still is, even though we just lost 25% of the healing.) We're all templar here, lets stay on topic and not attack each other.

Like I said previously the issue wasn't the actual healing amount of BOL that was the problem. The problem has always been Templars being able to hide and heal active combatants halfway across the field. Because of this people couldn't find the actual templar to kill (leading to people assuming it's one templar healing everyone.), fixing LOS would fix this issue. If you can find the templar healing someone out of execute range you can CC and focus him. This update will change nothing and only result in a future nerf on BOL again. Furthermore Sorcs can now employ this exact tactic with their pets, likely.

People got sick of playing hide and seek with Templar's, they complained, zos nerfed the symptom like they always do and ignored the root issue. Business as usual.

Let's get back on topic.

maxjapank

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You know why they never take their finger off bol to purge? Because they don't half to. I you reduced my healing by 50%? No worries I'm still pumping out 15k bol. Why purge when purging is what gets you killed?

I'm sorry. You obviously don't Templar or don't know what a Templar does to stay alive. But as @AfkNinja said, "Let's get back on topic."

bowmanz607

AfkNinja wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I don't like to be negative. But it is irratating to sit back and watch people so blindly sit behind such an op ability. I understand, it is the bread and butter of templars. That doesn't mean it is not op. I main a nb and I made a whole thread on what ablitzes are op and what needed work etc. People who blindly sit by and and refuse to have a disscussion about the ability iratate me. This is what your post seemed like to me. Especially based on the context in which it was placed.

That said, you clarified your position for me. I actually agree that this was the improper nerf. It should have been reduced healing. But I also understand where the combat team is coming from with what they were trying to accomplish with what they did. I for one think it won't pan out how they expect because the other abilities need work for them to accomplish their overall goal behind the bill nerf.

Also, the whole it cost this much and eats my resources is a weak argument. Champion points take the legs out from beneath that argument. (No they don't, there is a cap there are always sacrifices to make to get a particular effect from CP) I know for a fact you can spam bol damn near endlessly with close to minimal effort. (You are incorrect again.) This is the same arguments sorcs used for original streak morph, but despite those comments you still saw sorcs streaking from one end of cyro to another (Because they have amazing sustain, something Templar do not have.) .

As for the easy to take down a Templar heals just do this and that....what you think I dont? Major defile, timed executes and bursts and cc with multiple players hammering away doing little. Of course it is not as hard taking down scrubs. Just like it is not hard to take down a shield stacking sorcs that is a scrub. But we are not and should not be talking about scrubs. You can't balance the game around that or not fully leveled toons. It should be balanced on the potential of each class. Feng rush video is not an exception to templars bol issue, it is the rule. It is a common occurrence in pvp. Not some extreme examples, but common one. Got a Templar pug? No problem, just slot bol and zig zag in this ball of people.

You know why they never take their finger off bol to purge? Because they don't half to. I you reduced my healing by 50%? No worries I'm still pumping out 15k bol. (This is false.)
Why purge when purging is what gets you killed?

Your first mistake was comparing Sorc to Templar. Sorc has much higher passive resource sustain. Templar can not stand in one spot and hammer BOL all day long, it's just too expensive (and still is, even though we just lost 25% of the healing.) We're all templar here, lets stay on topic and not attack each other.

Like I said previously the issue wasn't the actual healing amount of BOL that was the problem. The problem has always been Templars being able to hide and heal active combatants halfway across the field. Because of this people couldn't find the actual templar to kill, fixing LOS would fix this issue. If you can find the templar healing someone out of execute range you can CC and focus him. This update will change nothing and only result in a future nerf on BOL again. Furthermore Sorcs can now employ this exact tactic with their pets, likely.

People got sick of playing hide and seek with Templar's, they complained, zos nerfed the symptom like they always do and ignored the root issue. Business as usual.

Let's get back on topic.

Lets...

I agree Los is the an issue. Bot I don't h8nk it is the issue. As I mentioned previously, currently a Templar can zig zag through their group and be nearly as safe as hid8ng. In fact I prefer when they are hiding cause I usually find them. So a Templar can currently zig zag in the ball group and spam bol no problem. Although Los will fix one aspect of the issue it does not solve it. This nerf doesn't solve it. Reducing the healing will go a long way to solve the issue. Then adding in Los checks etc for any remainder. Imo

Rudyard

It's not just the BoL nerf that has at least me and I assume many Templar upset; it's the BoL nerf in combination with the lack serious improvements, the increasing clumsiness of the class, and the general neglect of the class over the last year, while also watching other classes get more response from devs. Regardless of whether sorcs will use it in PvP (which I think it will be used to troll in certain situations), giving them a pet heal that is so damn similar to the one significant skill they 'balanced' for us comes across as mockery. It's like we were told for months and months "Yes! We will address the imbalance between classes! Hold on, hold on until the Thieves Guild Update!" Then it gets here and its the same old thing: broken skills still not fixed, mostly insignificant class buffs, but impactful nerfs. And then its as if they say to our faces "And hey, you can't have this OP healing spell anymore, but that guy, the guy over there that rarely even needs it? He get's it for his pet! Good day sir!"

The BoL nerf was the straw that broke the camels back. It's the taking away of something significant, something powerful, while giving us peanuts in return, again, and again, and again. We've been eating it for a year or more. The CP changes may make magicka templars stronger in DPS, but it's going to make magicka NBs and Sorcs even stronger. Add to that the attention magicka DKs got this patch and well....here sit us bitter Templars. The BoL nerf is the latest embodiment of the red-headed-step-child treatment of Templars by ZOS. It would be quite palatable if it were paired with significant buffs and/or fixing broken skills.

ZOS has dropped the ball for some time with Templars and this patch delivered more of the same. I guess we allowed ourselves to be to be fooled into expecting something different that what we've seen in the past year. ZOS has lost some customers on this one and is in danger of losing more. I'm honestly weighing my options right now. If they don't give this class some serious attention between now and the next update, the exit door will grow wider.

technohic

No one cares. Why do people keep posting. Its clearly a "take it and like it or GTFO" thing for Templar.

AfkNinja

technohic wrote: »

No one cares. Why do people keep posting. Its clearly a "take it and like it or GTFO" thing for Templar.

We care. If you don't there's the door. No one asked you to comment.

Also if we don't champion our own cause who friggen will????!!!!

joleda4ub17_ESO

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

AriBoh

AfkNinja wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No one cares. Why do people keep posting. Its clearly a "take it and like it or GTFO" thing for Templar.

We care. If you don't there's the door. No one asked you to comment.

Also if we don't champion our own cause who friggen will????!!!!

@technohic was a major player in the first long (now second biggest) temp thread on the forums, he just a cynical as the rest of us about ZoS ever fixing anything.

bowmanz607

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

yes because spamming aoe in group that has aoe caps plus smart healing is going to bring down a a templar spamming bol. sure i countered your dance and hit you. doesnt mean it did anything.

joleda4ub17_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

yes because spamming aoe in group that has aoe caps plus smart healing is going to bring down a a templar spamming bol. sure i countered your dance and hit you. doesnt mean it did anything.

Smart Healing is a nerf to the Healer. There is NO guarantee that the caster gets healed.

bowmanz607

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

yes because spamming aoe in group that has aoe caps plus smart healing is going to bring down a a templar spamming bol. sure i countered your dance and hit you. doesnt mean it did anything.

Smart Healing is a nerf to the Healer. There is NO guarantee that the caster gets healed.

wow smart healing is a nerf??? good grief

BullNetch

Let's end the BS.

Rushed Ceremony - turn it into a magicka Vigor. Heal self for X amount and those 10 meters around you. / Or just a plain out self heal.

Honor the Dead - heal self + those 10 meters around you, get mana back for additional people healed. / or a cheaper self heal.

Breathe of Life - heal self and those 15 meters around you. Like echoing vigor. / or self heal with HOT... like the werewolf Hircine's Fortitude.


Healing Ritual - straight up ripoff Chain Heal from WoW. 1 second cast time, 28 meter radius, 4 heals, 10% weaker heal after each jump. If self healing ain't for a group/raid... just have templars chain heal spam. Easy.

Lingering ritual - leave time delayed heal on each target

Ritual of Rebirth - chance to proc instant healing ritual or mana back for overheals

The PVP QQrs only have to worry about hard casted large radius heals... for the most part.


If you're gonna nerf BoL... at least make it appeal to my selfish side. Make it a self heal at least. Every person learns to heal themselves in PvE and PVP. Ends the QQ about healers. If a group needs a dedicated healer... you get the WoW chain heal as a crutch.

If I can only heal 2 people, one mofo better be me ALWAYS... screw everyone else.

Tankqull

Brrrofski wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

I have v16 magica and stamina templars. So I have no bias against them.

I also celebrated the bol nerf. It's so frigging annoying when fighting that a templar anywhere in the range, who may be having his own fight and doesn't even know his alliance memeber is fighting, heals himself and then the guy i'm fighting is getting healed.

It's way too strong in pvp. Pve wise, most the content is far too easy as it is. So having to use more than bol isn't a big deal.

So I'm glad it got nerfed. That along with the barrier and purge nerf may mean that people will have to use their brains and not just get saved by other people who happen to be near them.

I honestly can't wait for Sorcerers with the new improved BoL from Twilight Matriarch, who will now be fully shielded with a refreshable Hardened Ward, to start stacking and healing even better in a 35m no line of site circle.

People are gonna lament the old BoL.

It does sort of take the teeth out of their justification that BOL was "Too powerful a heal" when they take that exact same heal and give it to sorcerers... and make it even better (costing no mana, on a shieldable pet, spammable), while leaving ours still costing the same amount yet healing for 25% less.

But hey, whatever. Gives me an even better reason to level my sorcerer and heal on him instead. Assuming I decide to keep playing.

Lol I cant wait for people to replace burst healing of templars with pets - Im sure thatll work out great.

Exactly, it straight up won't happen. Nobody will run them on pvp. Nobody.

well they have insane aoe dmg resistance, so i expect them to be in seen in zergs, and i have the feeling that they will get the battlefield buffs to protect them in pvp too...

Tankqull

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You know why they never take their finger off bol to purge? Because they don't half to. I you reduced my healing by 50%? No worries I'm still pumping out 15k bol. Why purge when purging is what gets you killed?

what myths are you trying to spread here?
with 50% battlespirit and 30% major defile reduction (=65%heal reduction) to maintain a 15k heal you would need to have a delve/tooltip value on your heal of slightly below 43.000 hp healed (43.000*0.35=15.050)...
so your statement is pure BS.

BullNetch

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

yes because spamming aoe in group that has aoe caps plus smart healing is going to bring down a a templar spamming bol. sure i countered your dance and hit you. doesnt mean it did anything.

Smart Healing is a nerf to the Healer. There is NO guarantee that the caster gets healed.

Every man for himself healing.

The best option is to make Rushed Ceremony a self heal at the very least and maybe give it some splash healing.

Templars can be the class that doesn't need to be healed in a group. Sorcs, DKs, and NBs can heal each other with the healing staff, pet abilities, etc in dungeons. Templars don't have to share heals in PVP and no more QQ from pro PVPers about roaming templars accidentally healing their victims.

The big problem is that Templars SHARE. Make them selfish.

technohic

AfkNinja wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No one cares. Why do people keep posting. Its clearly a "take it and like it or GTFO" thing for Templar.

We care. If you don't there's the door. No one asked you to comment.

Also if we don't champion our own cause who friggen will????!!!!

I did. I come back to see if there is anything new, even so much as an acknowledgment of where things are, and not a single dev post. Just Templars fighting each other or other classes. Same as always. With all this posting, it just says you're going to put up with it and soldier on whether they change or not.


Good luck with that.

Talyena

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow....

Steel tornado, steel tornado, steel tornado....

Ambush, ambush, ambush...

Idinuse wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

I have v16 magica and stamina templars. So I have no bias against them.

I also celebrated the bol nerf. It's so frigging annoying when fighting that a templar anywhere in the range, who may be having his own fight and doesn't even know his alliance memeber is fighting, heals himself and then the guy i'm fighting is getting healed.

It's way too strong in pvp. Pve wise, most the content is far too easy as it is. So having to use more than bol isn't a big deal.

So I'm glad it got nerfed. That along with the barrier and purge nerf may mean that people will have to use their brains and not just get saved by other people who happen to be near them.

I honestly can't wait for Sorcerers with the new improved BoL from Twilight Matriarch, who will now be fully shielded with a refreshable Hardened Ward, to start stacking and healing even better in a 35m no line of site circle.

People are gonna lament the old BoL.

It does sort of take the teeth out of their justification that BOL was "Too powerful a heal" when they take that exact same heal and give it to sorcerers... and make it even better (costing no mana, on a shieldable pet, spammable), while leaving ours still costing the same amount yet healing for 25% less.

But hey, whatever. Gives me an even better reason to level my sorcerer and heal on him instead. Assuming I decide to keep playing.

Lol I cant wait for people to replace burst healing of templars with pets - Im sure thatll work out great.

Exactly, it straight up won't happen. Nobody will run them on pvp. Nobody.

To be fair a 95% of the crying about BoL was the fact that the templar could be hiding behind a wall/up the stairs/in the tower unseen and untouched and still healing and spamming away saving people.

That is the role the pet is perfect for. Which is why it is so funny to me.

Why do people word it as crying. Healing two people, randomly within it's radius is plain stupid and has zero level of skill. People in groups will have to run their own heal now abs actually multi task.

A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning.

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Judging by the Steel Tornado, Snipe, and WB one button hammering, it clearly is. These skills are as brain and skill less as you keep repeating BoL is, but OP on completely new highs. Do you personally think killing a player from 30-40 meters that doesen't even have time to react is skill-full? Constantly mashing one button Stel Tornado requires skill? Stacking shields and other mitigation is skilled play that requires a brain?

But no, it's the Templars one button heals that is constantly called brainless and unskilled. Try, really try, playing a Templar in high end game PvP with anything that isn't a build one hit wonder. Trust me you'll know what ESO hard mode really means.

again, I never said that people didnt spam a single button, i was just pointing out that the person i quoted enjoyed spamming one button. that taking away that one button spam will ruin it for that person. that is ridiculous and i say good riddance. Any change that makes one button spammers have to switch it up is good. I also never said other abilities shouldnt be looked at, but this is a templar thread not a "hey they can do it over there, i want to do it over here" thread. That is the problem with many people. they want there ability to remain unchanged an unbalanced, because other abilities still do things they shouldnt. How the heck would a game ever get balanced with that mentality?

Sure, do something with wrecking blow. but before you can do anything to it you need to fix the broken mechanics to see if it still operates in the same fashion afterwards. perhaps make it bashable. who knows. they tweaked tornado. will it hel? we will see. perhaps if people do break up a little more this patch it will be less useful. also, now there is physical damage mitigation now. will it still be an issue? maybe. Lets add into the fact that stam was outplaying mag on top of that fact that mag aoe sucked. will the mag meta coming chnage tornado spam? maybe. Will the new aoe be wall of elements? maybe. Will the gap closer change change the ambush spam? maybe. the point is, dont try and make it seem like there are not changes coming to other spammable abilities. Also, dont try to use a spammable ability people use that has so many broken mechanics tied to it.

But alas, we are not talking about other problems the game has, but a specific issue that was/is tied to bol in a general thread about templars. nothing more. So let me make my point more clear. If a player wants to leave because they say that they have their fun in this game solely from running around spamming one button, and then turns around and says changing that will ruin the game for them, then i say good riddance.

But that person didn't say that. This is what they said that YOU highlighted. "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast." So you automatically translated healing and support as one button spamming.

but the context of that quote was in terms of the bol nerf. the person was speaking to the bol nerf and then said "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone."

Based on the context of the statement and what the statement said, the person effectively stated that bol is how he heals his group and taking away the current bol will ruin the game and force the player to leave. aka, you nerfed the one healing ability i use to heal in groups, i call it fun, and now that i cant do that i am leaving.

that is how i translated it. didnt think i had to spell it out. but alas, it is the forums.

So you ONLY read the highlighted part? This is what was right before that and it was in response to someone who said people should just heal themselves. "A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me." Being a tank is already irrelevant in PvP, if being made a healer is irrelevant than all that will be out there will be DPS. There will be no incentive whatsoever to group other than to form a giant lag ball and win by immobilizing the enemy through slow frame rates and massive ping. So I read it as saying if you take interactive grouping out of PvP then it will be much less appealing to many players who may just take their money elsewhere.

good grief. i highlighted that portion of the text. a relevant portion that you left out when you quoted it. here....

"A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning"

this quote came directly after another quote talking about the bol nerf which was in turn was part of a larger discussion regarding the bol nerf. The person is saying that the bol nerf will stop him from playing because he cant hit one button to heal his group any more. Even yy your understanding of it, which is an understandable view of the reading, the person is equating the bol nerf to people being disincentive to group and ultimately leading to the doom of the game. The person is literally saying that because i cant spam one button to heal anymore, not only will i be leaving, but the rest of the community will leave because they can no longer hit one button to heal. How the hell do you think non-templars have been healing this whole time? nerfing bol like this does not make a healer irrelevant. it simply doesnt make it easy mode any more.

The bolded part is my quote. I also made another post stating that I don't have Breath of Life (BoL) on my character. I chose the other morph for the Magicka recovery. I only PVP. I only play healers & support. I also stated that I press way more than 1 button. Either you're trolling, or you really need to L2Forum.

What you don't seem to understand is that BoL was a perfect heal for a hybrid build character. I play focused characters, but not everyone wants to play that way. Someone could play a Paladin-type melee build and throw out a heal every now and then, which would be as close as their going to get to a healing aura. Is this an optimal build? No. Their attributes are all over the place. I'm flabbergasted that such a build would pose a serious threat to a hard-core PVP'er.

Instead of fixing the LoS problem, ZOS nerfed the number of targets. A "better" nerf would have been to lower the heal and keep the number of targets.

are we still on this???

excuse me for not reading every last forum post on 63 pages. my bad.

That said, I stand by my interpretation of what you said. I did read all of the quoted material from that particular conversation you jumped in on. Not only did you not mention anything about you using the other morph or even your play style, but you also did not even have more than the one comment. Furthermore, your comment was placed directly after a few comments in the discussion about bol. What other interpretation of your comment was their supposed to be? Based on the context of the conversation and the comments in which your comment followed, my interpretation was a proper interpretation of what you were trying to say. It went from comments discussing bol to if they take healing away you will be done. seems to be equating bol nerf discussion to the death of healing. An ability that requires button mashing to operate.

Perhaps placing your comments in a better context would help interpretations of it. dont get mad at me that you jumped in on a discussion and made a comment that seemed to have a bearing on the actual discussion at hand. You cant expect everyone to read every single comment, but you should expect a persons comments to belong within the context of the discussion they jumped in on.

Actually, mine was. You were the one jumping to conclusions instead of just reading what was said.

joleda4ub17_ESO

BullNetch wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

@bowmanz607
Here is one of my secrets.... One of the best ways that I've found to stay alive, is to move around inside my team. The game doesn't hard target anyone like the old school TAB target games once did. Simply moving around causes people to "miss" me by hitting someone else. The effect is that I can disperse the burst damage across several teammates and then heal them with Healing Ritual. The simple act of staying near the crown makes me harder to kill. I didn't use the BoL or any other four letter word.

Instead of relying on a single target attack, move to an AOE. Boom, you countered my dance and it didn't require respecing, retooling, regearing, or any other re-erring....

I'm starting to think that the proliferation of DPS-centric games has spoiled people and some are getting lazy with their tactics.

yes because spamming aoe in group that has aoe caps plus smart healing is going to bring down a a templar spamming bol. sure i countered your dance and hit you. doesnt mean it did anything.

Smart Healing is a nerf to the Healer. There is NO guarantee that the caster gets healed.

Every man for himself healing.

The best option is to make Rushed Ceremony a self heal at the very least and maybe give it some splash healing.

Templars can be the class that doesn't need to be healed in a group. Sorcs, DKs, and NBs can heal each other with the healing staff, pet abilities, etc in dungeons. Templars don't have to share heals in PVP and no more QQ from pro PVPers about roaming templars accidentally healing their victims.

The big problem is that Templars SHARE. Make them selfish.

Logic? Logic? We don't need no stinkin' Logic!

bowmanz607

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Talyena wrote: »

.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Wrecking blow, wrecking blow, wrecking blow....

Steel tornado, steel tornado, steel tornado....

Ambush, ambush, ambush...

Idinuse wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Dreddlock- wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

@sypherpk and @blabafat Im very tired of repeating the same thing but I will so you guys can get it. Can templar be somewhat succesfull in pvp? Yes. Can templars be competitive in pvp? Magicka to a certain degree and a big NO for stam templar (same can be said about stam sorc)
I dare you guys to fight Sribes or any good sword and board stam DK with a templar (magicka or stamina). As I said before, you will not beat him. @sypherpk thinks of himself as a very talented player, id like to see him tryhard vs a top 5 magicka sorc on a templar (stam or magicka)
I could also post videos of me slaying 5+ dudes, heck, even 10 dudes sometimes in iC and all that as a stamina templar but that doesn't mean that the class is fine. You sypher kill vr4s and 5s by just spamming jabs then you expect us all to "realise" how good templars are.

I didn't post the videos to prove templars are top notch. I know they are not. I just posted them to show that I have enough experience with the class to at least talk about the class.

I highly regard your DK, Sorc, and Nightblade skills, but when you don't even know if the removal of knockback on puncturing sweeps and it's morphs are good or bad..... please stop. Your embarrassing your self.

Actually it would have been embarrassing if I pretended to know if it was a good or bad thing without actually having the knowledge.

At least I can admit when I don't know something or make a mistake. Except some of you are looking at a 2.5 hour video I posted where I read the notes for the first time quickly without any real time to reflect/analyze it and are trying to rip any slight mistake or slip up just to belittle or discredit me.

I stated right in the begging of my Templar part of the video that "I am NOT a Templar expert" so I'm confused where you are getting this idea that I know the class inside out. All I said was I've played it and I'm commenting on it from my experience with the class.


Where did this elitist attitude come from?

The issue wasn't your mistake or slip up. The issue, for me at least, was the reflexive whine about an insignificant buff to a Templar synergy even though you had no idea what it was. It demonstrated your bias. You were so prepared to whine for more nerfs that you did it before you even knew what you were whining about.

Additionally, you basically celebrated the BoL nerf like it was a birthday present showing even more bias. You certainly have the right to be as bias as you want and celebrate our nerfs, but you shouldn't expect a friendly reception in our thread afterwards.

I have v16 magica and stamina templars. So I have no bias against them.

I also celebrated the bol nerf. It's so frigging annoying when fighting that a templar anywhere in the range, who may be having his own fight and doesn't even know his alliance memeber is fighting, heals himself and then the guy i'm fighting is getting healed.

It's way too strong in pvp. Pve wise, most the content is far too easy as it is. So having to use more than bol isn't a big deal.

So I'm glad it got nerfed. That along with the barrier and purge nerf may mean that people will have to use their brains and not just get saved by other people who happen to be near them.

I honestly can't wait for Sorcerers with the new improved BoL from Twilight Matriarch, who will now be fully shielded with a refreshable Hardened Ward, to start stacking and healing even better in a 35m no line of site circle.

People are gonna lament the old BoL.

It does sort of take the teeth out of their justification that BOL was "Too powerful a heal" when they take that exact same heal and give it to sorcerers... and make it even better (costing no mana, on a shieldable pet, spammable), while leaving ours still costing the same amount yet healing for 25% less.

But hey, whatever. Gives me an even better reason to level my sorcerer and heal on him instead. Assuming I decide to keep playing.

Lol I cant wait for people to replace burst healing of templars with pets - Im sure thatll work out great.

Exactly, it straight up won't happen. Nobody will run them on pvp. Nobody.

To be fair a 95% of the crying about BoL was the fact that the templar could be hiding behind a wall/up the stairs/in the tower unseen and untouched and still healing and spamming away saving people.

That is the role the pet is perfect for. Which is why it is so funny to me.

Why do people word it as crying. Healing two people, randomly within it's radius is plain stupid and has zero level of skill. People in groups will have to run their own heal now abs actually multi task.

A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning.

so running around hammering on one button is fun???

Judging by the Steel Tornado, Snipe, and WB one button hammering, it clearly is. These skills are as brain and skill less as you keep repeating BoL is, but OP on completely new highs. Do you personally think killing a player from 30-40 meters that doesen't even have time to react is skill-full? Constantly mashing one button Stel Tornado requires skill? Stacking shields and other mitigation is skilled play that requires a brain?

But no, it's the Templars one button heals that is constantly called brainless and unskilled. Try, really try, playing a Templar in high end game PvP with anything that isn't a build one hit wonder. Trust me you'll know what ESO hard mode really means.

again, I never said that people didnt spam a single button, i was just pointing out that the person i quoted enjoyed spamming one button. that taking away that one button spam will ruin it for that person. that is ridiculous and i say good riddance. Any change that makes one button spammers have to switch it up is good. I also never said other abilities shouldnt be looked at, but this is a templar thread not a "hey they can do it over there, i want to do it over here" thread. That is the problem with many people. they want there ability to remain unchanged an unbalanced, because other abilities still do things they shouldnt. How the heck would a game ever get balanced with that mentality?

Sure, do something with wrecking blow. but before you can do anything to it you need to fix the broken mechanics to see if it still operates in the same fashion afterwards. perhaps make it bashable. who knows. they tweaked tornado. will it hel? we will see. perhaps if people do break up a little more this patch it will be less useful. also, now there is physical damage mitigation now. will it still be an issue? maybe. Lets add into the fact that stam was outplaying mag on top of that fact that mag aoe sucked. will the mag meta coming chnage tornado spam? maybe. Will the new aoe be wall of elements? maybe. Will the gap closer change change the ambush spam? maybe. the point is, dont try and make it seem like there are not changes coming to other spammable abilities. Also, dont try to use a spammable ability people use that has so many broken mechanics tied to it.

But alas, we are not talking about other problems the game has, but a specific issue that was/is tied to bol in a general thread about templars. nothing more. So let me make my point more clear. If a player wants to leave because they say that they have their fun in this game solely from running around spamming one button, and then turns around and says changing that will ruin the game for them, then i say good riddance.

But that person didn't say that. This is what they said that YOU highlighted. "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast." So you automatically translated healing and support as one button spamming.

but the context of that quote was in terms of the bol nerf. the person was speaking to the bol nerf and then said "The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone."

Based on the context of the statement and what the statement said, the person effectively stated that bol is how he heals his group and taking away the current bol will ruin the game and force the player to leave. aka, you nerfed the one healing ability i use to heal in groups, i call it fun, and now that i cant do that i am leaving.

that is how i translated it. didnt think i had to spell it out. but alas, it is the forums.

So you ONLY read the highlighted part? This is what was right before that and it was in response to someone who said people should just heal themselves. "A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me." Being a tank is already irrelevant in PvP, if being made a healer is irrelevant than all that will be out there will be DPS. There will be no incentive whatsoever to group other than to form a giant lag ball and win by immobilizing the enemy through slow frame rates and massive ping. So I read it as saying if you take interactive grouping out of PvP then it will be much less appealing to many players who may just take their money elsewhere.

good grief. i highlighted that portion of the text. a relevant portion that you left out when you quoted it. here....

"A game where everyone is solo and PVP becomes a FFA doesn't appeal to everyone. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. The most fun I have in PVP is playing a healer and supporting my team. I think it's a blast. Take that away an I'm gone. Cyrodiil will eventually become a ghost zone where the only people left are solo and the only thing left to do is fight 1v1 arena style. There will be no new blood or no new fodder. People like you will complain about stuff why PVP is all 1v1 and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself. Congrats, it looks like you're winning"

this quote came directly after another quote talking about the bol nerf which was in turn was part of a larger discussion regarding the bol nerf. The person is saying that the bol nerf will stop him from playing because he cant hit one button to heal his group any more. Even yy your understanding of it, which is an understandable view of the reading, the person is equating the bol nerf to people being disincentive to group and ultimately leading to the doom of the game. The person is literally saying that because i cant spam one button to heal anymore, not only will i be leaving, but the rest of the community will leave because they can no longer hit one button to heal. How the hell do you think non-templars have been healing this whole time? nerfing bol like this does not make a healer irrelevant. it simply doesnt make it easy mode any more.

The bolded part is my quote. I also made another post stating that I don't have Breath of Life (BoL) on my character. I chose the other morph for the Magicka recovery. I only PVP. I only play healers & support. I also stated that I press way more than 1 button. Either you're trolling, or you really need to L2Forum.

What you don't seem to understand is that BoL was a perfect heal for a hybrid build character. I play focused characters, but not everyone wants to play that way. Someone could play a Paladin-type melee build and throw out a heal every now and then, which would be as close as their going to get to a healing aura. Is this an optimal build? No. Their attributes are all over the place. I'm flabbergasted that such a build would pose a serious threat to a hard-core PVP'er.

Instead of fixing the LoS problem, ZOS nerfed the number of targets. A "better" nerf would have been to lower the heal and keep the number of targets.

are we still on this???

excuse me for not reading every last forum post on 63 pages. my bad.

That said, I stand by my interpretation of what you said. I did read all of the quoted material from that particular conversation you jumped in on. Not only did you not mention anything about you using the other morph or even your play style, but you also did not even have more than the one comment. Furthermore, your comment was placed directly after a few comments in the discussion about bol. What other interpretation of your comment was their supposed to be? Based on the context of the conversation and the comments in which your comment followed, my interpretation was a proper interpretation of what you were trying to say. It went from comments discussing bol to if they take healing away you will be done. seems to be equating bol nerf discussion to the death of healing. An ability that requires button mashing to operate.

Perhaps placing your comments in a better context would help interpretations of it. dont get mad at me that you jumped in on a discussion and made a comment that seemed to have a bearing on the actual discussion at hand. You cant expect everyone to read every single comment, but you should expect a persons comments to belong within the context of the discussion they jumped in on.

Actually, mine was. You were the one jumping to conclusions instead of just reading what was said.

listen im not going to get into this. we dropped it. we moved on. i explained my position. I did it logically. that is not to say there were not other interpretations possible. I did based on what i read.

move on.

SeptimusDova

If you keep infighting like this you will get the thread locked. Is it not bad enough that our last one with great points in it was buried? Other Templars are not the problem. The problems have already been identified in this thread. LOS/Smart heals.

Discussing anything, other than what can be done to fix the cause is not germane to the discussion and a distraction.

Symptoms are being treated not the cause.Go ahead get this thread locked. Shoot yourselves in the foot.

maxjapank

@bowmanz607

No offense mate. But Templars do use other spells to heal, damage, and support their groups. It isn't just spamming Breath of Life. But as I said, you obviously don't Templar. Instead, you listen to bs and begin to believe that bs.

The only thing you've said that could be debatable is "smart heals". But as a healer, I would quit healing instantly if they took this out of the game. I don't want to stare at grids and click on people, choosing who to heal. The whole style of "whack a mole" healing like it existed in World of Warcraft is terrible. It isn't fun at all. All you do is stare at your grid. You never really get to enjoy the fight.

Now making "Line of sight" effect healing spells is something that I would consider.

But let's not confuse the two. They are different things.

SeptimusDova

Max a line of sight heal would work. blind heals could go away. in fact all blind aoes can go away as well. Caltrops at keep doors and so forth.

I think it would work well like that. If I see you and you are within range I can heal you. If either one of us are not in each others sight then oops no heals. It will be up to us to work on a concise set of solutions and present them to ZOS. As they cannot or will not.

bowmanz607

maxjapank wrote: »

@bowmanz607

No offense mate. But Templars do use other spells to heal, damage, and support their groups. It isn't just spamming Breath of Life. But as I said, you obviously don't Templar. Instead, you listen to bs and begin to believe that bs.

The only thing you've said that could be debatable is "smart heals". But as a healer, I would quit healing instantly if they took this out of the game. I don't want to stare at grids and click on people, choosing who to heal. The whole style of "whack a mole" healing like it existed in World of Warcraft is terrible. It isn't fun at all. All you do is stare at your grid. You never really get to enjoy the fight.

Now making "Line of sight" effect healing spells is something that I would consider.

But let's not confuse the two. They are different things.

Ya sure throw in a purge every so often. Or healing springs for light attacks on your group. Perhaps restore some stamina to your group now and then. But when push comes to shove, it all comes down to spamming that bol.

I do 8n fact templar. I have vet and nonset version I run. Heck my vet should have been emp. Was one flag short. Point 8s 8 d9 understand the power of bol. I have put my time in on it. In fact my vet templar is my second most played toon. Additi9nally, I see it and fight it every single day i pvp. I run with others who play it. I am well aware of what a templar is capable of and not capable of. I don't just log onto a stream and watch. I don't just suck at killing templars and come to yell about it. I don't just read comments and then think I know what I am talking about. I have a dog in the fight.

And yes I think smart heals is an issue. I also agree that it is what differentiates this game from others, makes healing more appealing, and is also a core mechanic of the game. I know it won't be changed, when it comes down to it it should stay, but that does not mean it is does not have its own issues. That said, I personally would love to tab target people for bol and rushed ceremony. Would be interesting to test I think. Again, I also think los is an issue. However, even if Los was changed for it, I still think the ability heals for too much. I think this nerf was not the proper nerf.

Overall, reduce the healing and add los.

SeptimusDova

They way smart healing works in the game need to be tweaked.

Proposition: If you have LOS of your group then when the heal goes poof the smart healing will work. those that are not in LOS are just SOL and this will remove the dependency of BOL for those that are SOL.

Animal_Mother

I think smart heals should prioritize your group (even if your in a group of one). If everyone in your nearby group is fully healed then heal others in range. This means the heals have a higher chance of going where they are intended.