Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Brrrofski

SeptimusDova wrote: »

BRRRRofski


"LoS wouldn't completely not punish pugs anyway. Pretty sure that could come into play on a few occasions."

My LoS comment wasn't about punishing pugs, mugs ,bugs, rugs, scalawags, halfwits,dimwits or ***.

It was about preventing the Blind Heal,the hide and heal AP gains in PVP.

That was the issue a single BOL casted from Cover could frustrate a good fight. And not just BOL but all things that work from hiding.

Not the NB cloak hide.. But the I'm behind this wall nay nay nay nay nay you cant touch me ! Crap that went on and will continue to go on this did not fix the issue and that it what it was supposed to do.

I believes they were told this in beta as well. back then it was prolly like .. yeah , yeah oh yeah we will get to that. Then they saw a squirrel and forgot everything.

I know it wasn't about that. I get what you were saying man. Merely using your comment as a spring into mine lol. My bad, should have clarified.

I'm just saying, a lot of people said the bol nerf is going to make pve healing harder. There's no guarantee that Los on bol wouldn't cause an issue in pve as well.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Blech43 wrote: »

This is getting absurd.

ZOS, if you're reading this 65-page (and counting) Templar thread, please respond.

At this point, it doesn't even have to be a substantive response. Just say "Hi" so that we know you're here.

But they won't, because they have no intention of doing anything about any of the suggestions here. They spent most of their time for this update buffing other classes and nerfing BoL. They refuse to accept the overwhelming feedback from the Templar community that our buggy, slow, channeled, and useless skills need to be fixed, and that Templars currently have no tools to meet the class concept of 'defending the house'. Why aren't the devs listening? I'm not sure whether they're just more interested in fixing other classes because they play them more, or they prefer to watch streamers rants rather than listen to actual Templars, but for whatever reason, it is clear that ZOS is simply not listening to the people who play Templars.

It is sad, but the unequal treatment is staggeringly obvious. ZOS seem to listen a lot to NBs (e.g. recent nerf rollback), to mag Sorcs (healing pet etc.), and to DKs (who were OP for a year and now look to be coming back to the top tier after a while in the wilderness). In regards to Stam Sorcs and Templars, though, they just aren't listening.

Avonna

if the forums fall on deaf ears, then speak the language they understand......your wallet.

Soris

My wallet is wide open with full of money in it but there is nothing to worth for it even one penny

Blech43

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Blech43 wrote: »

This is getting absurd.

ZOS, if you're reading this 65-page (and counting) Templar thread, please respond.

At this point, it doesn't even have to be a substantive response. Just say "Hi" so that we know you're here.

But they won't, because they have no intention of doing anything about any of the suggestions here. They spent most of their time for this update buffing other classes and nerfing BoL. They refuse to accept the overwhelming feedback from the Templar community that our buggy, slow, channeled, and useless skills need to be fixed, and that Templars currently have no tools to meet the class concept of 'defending the house'. Why aren't the devs listening? I'm not sure whether they're just more interested in fixing other classes because they play them more, or they prefer to watch streamers rants rather than listen to actual Templars, but for whatever reason, it is clear that ZOS is simply not listening to the people who play Templars.

It is sad, but the unequal treatment is staggeringly obvious. ZOS seem to listen a lot to NBs (e.g. recent nerf rollback), to mag Sorcs (healing pet etc.), and to DKs (who were OP for a year and now look to be coming back to the top tier after a while in the wilderness). In regards to Stam Sorcs and Templars, though, they just aren't listening.

Having worked as both a customer service rep and later as a project manager, my sense is that the devs are aware of the conversation going on here, but simply think that their vision for the class is the right one, and that once the fury dies down players will eventually come around and accept it.

Whether that actually happens or not, we'll see. But what I can't get over is just unprofessional this deafening silence is. Players will respect a dev's decision to change something -- whether they agree with it or not -- if they feel that the dev has presented a well-reasoned explanation for it and comes across as sensitive to the players' concerns. But the way this thread, which has been largely constructive by the way, has been ignored just adds fuel to the fire.

Very, very unprofessional.

cazlonb16_ESO

Well, it kinda happened already. Try finding a Templar outside of a raid or at least large group in Cyrodiil...good luck. Healbots will probably stay healbots and almost everyone else is pretty much gone anyway.

bowmanz607

Blech43 wrote: »

This is getting absurd.

ZOS, if you're reading this 65-page (and counting) Templar thread, please respond.

At this point, it doesn't even have to be a substantive response. Just say "Hi" so that we know you're here.

/lurk

david.haypreub18_ESO

Blech43 wrote: »

Having worked as both a customer service rep and later as a project manager, my sense is that the devs are aware of the conversation going on here, but simply think that their vision for the class is the right one, and that once the fury dies down players will eventually come around and accept it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

It was the same thing with them trying to entice Sorcerers to use Liquid Lightning in PvP: it just isn't very effective. Unfortunately, it has been 2 years for Templars now, and many players are just not buying into their vision. I for example would like to play a Paladin: someone who wears heavy armor, is tanky, and can throw out some buffs and heals to help the group. That is not really possible right now in high end PvP: tanking in general has been nerfed with the changes to blocking, Templars are not particularly tanky or capable of 'protecting a house', and heavy armor is terrible. I don't fit the vision.

Worse still, the Templar class as it stands now doesn't even match the developers unique vision. Templars simply don't have many tools to 'protect the house'. So we're stuck with a class that fails to meet a vision that we don't share and never wanted in the first place.

bowmanz607

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Blech43 wrote: »

Having worked as both a customer service rep and later as a project manager, my sense is that the devs are aware of the conversation going on here, but simply think that their vision for the class is the right one, and that once the fury dies down players will eventually come around and accept it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It was the same thing with them trying to entice Sorcerers to us Liquid Lightning in PvP: it just isn't very effective. Unfortunately, it has been 2 years for Templars now, and many players are just not buying into their vision. I for example would like to play a Paladin: someone who wears heavy armor, is tanky, and can throw out some buffs and heals to help the group. That is not really possible right now in high end PvP: tanking in general has been nerfed with the changes to blocking, Templars are not particularly tanky or capable of 'protecting a house', and heavy armor is terrible. I don't fit the vision.

The issue for tanks in pvp us not blocking changes. The issue is heavy armor not being viable.

Cinbri

And another thing all templars would love to see:
Removal of speed depression upon casting Flare and Radiant Destruction and Healing Ritual.
@Wrobel

Radburn

Cinbri wrote: »

And another thing all templar would love to see:
Removal of speed depression upon casting Flare and Radiant Destruction.
@Wrobel

It would certainly help. Don't forget healing ritual.

This thread has taken on a life of it's own. We seem to have been side tracked and forgot what it's original purpose was - To have people test the new changes on PTS and report. There has been very little of that. I'm curious to know how well Templars are fairing in PvP on the PTS although I don't think we will get any solid information until after things go live. Right now it's a wait and see game, but I do have this feeling we will be in a better place.

Zheg

Radburn wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

And another thing all templar would love to see:
Removal of speed depression upon casting Flare and Radiant Destruction.
@Wrobel

It would certainly help. Don't forget healing ritual.

This thread has taken on a life of it's own. We seem to have been side tracked and forgot what it's original purpose was - To have people test the new changes on PTS and report. There has been very little of that. I'm curious to know how well Templars are fairing in PvP on the PTS although I don't think we will get any solid information until after things go live. Right now it's a wait and see game, but I do have this feeling we will be in a better place.

The extent to which its gone off track is a measure of how exhaustive the playerbase has been in giving feedback; at least a part of the problem is the feedback falling not on deaf ears - but defiant ears. I honestly don't think anything else could be said in terms of feedback that hasn't already; people are waiting for ZOS to respond and hopefully shift from their stubborn short-sightedness when it comes to balance.

With regards to pvp, all you can really do are duels and that's hardly the normal pvp environment. I also don't need testing to have the foresight to realize bombard spam and talons spam is going to reach a new ceiling and Templars will get pinned down and die without the mitigation and mobility so many have talked about.

We've probably reached a point where ZOS knows they have a big problem, but Gina wouldn't want to touch this with a ten-foot pole given the pure rage players have right now. The fact that she has zero blame and wrobel has full blame probably doesn't incentivize anyone to want to be the first to hold their nose and jump into the icy waters of Templars scorned.

I wonder if they're ignorantly hoping we get it all out of our system while the discussion is happening on PTS rather than the more visible General Forums section. If they think 2k posts is a one Nd done thing, I don't think they got the memo for how pissed most Templars are.

Cinbri

Also if ZOS will make any skill to have Major Evasion they could use old animation of floating shadows from old Total Dark. This visual is easily noticeble.

dennissomb16_ESO

I feel part of the issue for lack of response from ZOS is that they are not actually looking for feedback on the changes themselves as much as they are looking for bugs/changes working as designed on the PTS. As an example no amount of feedback in this thread is going to change the BOL nerf. That change is going in no matter the thoughts of the community from rage to actual helpful suggestions.

They do look at feedback on things like toppling charge still being bugged as we can see from their repeated updates that it is now working (even though it is not lol). There should be class forums for ongoing discussions and feedback on classes.

Overall I am guessing there could be a better way for letting people know they are reading feedback during these big DLC releases

SeptimusDova

two years and have yet to fix a glaring bug. A defiant critter of toppling charge. Lest we forget " Templars slower by design" the GCD's that were not supposed to be there. And when found was a bug then a feature. I would like to call them out on lying but they hand out bans for that.

Two years and it feels like a beta still.Currently I am in an Alpha first wave and in two years that game has made more progress than this one with far less money and a far larger scope.Who ever is managing the devs and Wrolag Bal is inefficient.

Bugs happen I get it. Separation of Skills yes that must happen. It can be done. For ZOS it may be that the technical debt will exceed the potential payoff.

since we are on the topic of bugs what bugs do we have besides the TC bug? We have the multi cast bug that is affecting most classes multi atros multi meteors multi novas. Has anyone tried running towards a target with RD equipped but not firing. Or RD on main bar?

Dredlord

timidobserver wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

This is how other people, here: Sypher, are flattered by the incoming nurf to Templars, watch 01:32:33...

https://youtu.be/iwNDGTYG3ZE

..no, he's not biased at all! This video is a perfect example to explain how the combat-team is failing to treat the class in a balanced manner..! And to show, that most players don't even understand the class, when later on he is "shocked" about the synergy-heal on Cleansing Ritual.. lol

He's hurting the game so much and it feels like devs are fixing the game around him, pretty sad actually that a game that has "THE ELDER SCROLLS" in it's name is being balanced around a streamer who averges only 700 views in twitch ESO in a nutshell.

I have to agree. The video is pretty disgusting. He even complains about the buff to a synergy because he has so little understanding of the class that he doesn't know it is a synergy. I wonder if the patch next week will include a nerf to the purify synergy. It's kind of disappointing that the devs are actually listening to this guy.

I picture Wrobel watching this video desperately hoping for approval.

Yeah seriously, I almost puked in my mouth watching that.

He also claims to play "all classes". Even though his templar is like VR1 retired something and he doesn't even know what a Purify synergy is. Why would he tho? He only plays mag sorc and stamblade, because currently the strongest(while likely dreaming of 1.5 DK back).

I'm not really shocked that a guy like Sypher, that only plays fotm class/build combinations, for least resistance and easy wins, sits there and gloats when the individually weakest PvP class gets nerfed. More easy kills for him is better. He doesn't play the class, so why care?

The terrifying thing here is rather that devs wants to be hipster and seeks approval from low- to mid ranked streamers(most gamers never even heard of much less watched) over the entire templar community.

Ive heard him say stam templars are fine and not as bad as people think, then he can't even kill 2-3 guys on his templar while he can take on more than 10 on his DK, sorc or NB....

Just have to point the finger at someone huh? You think Zenimax bases their decisions on a guy like me who literally only plays one aspect of the game? (Solo pvp)

Give me a break. I give my OPINIONS on changes, my opinions are just that.. Opinions.

That purify synergy is OP though.

Lol, its so confusing must get closer to screen to un...derp...stan...it...

Joy_Division

Blech43 wrote: »

This is getting absurd.

ZOS, if you're reading this 65-page (and counting) Templar thread, please respond.

At this point, it doesn't even have to be a substantive response. Just say "Hi" so that we know you're here.

Well, we did get ZoS to come in here and tell us to be civil

DeeBunny

If we could get a Green acknowledgement as post #2,000 in this thread, that'd be pretty awesome. It'd be way cool if they took the opportunity to call out and acknowledge some of the work that's gone into a few of the exceptional pieces of feedback ('leet' post #1337 comes to mind, among others) in this thread.

C'mon green, you can do it...

wayfarerx

DeeBunny wrote: »

If we could get a Green acknowledgement as post #2,000 in this thread, that'd be pretty awesome. It'd be way cool if they took the opportunity to call out and acknowledge some of the work that's gone into a few of the exceptional pieces of feedback ('leet' post #1337 comes to mind, among others) in this thread.

C'mon green, you can do it...

I think even a simple "/lurk" would send us all into spasms of joy at this point.

staracino_ESO

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I feel part of the issue for lack of response from ZOS is that they are not actually looking for feedback on the changes themselves as much as they are looking for bugs/changes working as designed on the PTS. As an example no amount of feedback in this thread is going to change the BOL nerf. That change is going in no matter the thoughts of the community from rage to actual helpful suggestions.

They do look at feedback on things like toppling charge still being bugged as we can see from their repeated updates that it is now working (even though it is not lol). There should be class forums for ongoing discussions and feedback on classes.

Overall I am guessing there could be a better way for letting people know they are reading feedback during these big DLC releases

They did ask us to compile a list of issues at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread back in December.

AriBoh

staracino_ESO wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I feel part of the issue for lack of response from ZOS is that they are not actually looking for feedback on the changes themselves as much as they are looking for bugs/changes working as designed on the PTS. As an example no amount of feedback in this thread is going to change the BOL nerf. That change is going in no matter the thoughts of the community from rage to actual helpful suggestions.

They do look at feedback on things like toppling charge still being bugged as we can see from their repeated updates that it is now working (even though it is not lol). There should be class forums for ongoing discussions and feedback on classes.

Overall I am guessing there could be a better way for letting people know they are reading feedback during these big DLC releases

They did ask us to compile a list of issues at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread back in December.

Which they promptly ignored.

AfkNinja

AriBoh wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I feel part of the issue for lack of response from ZOS is that they are not actually looking for feedback on the changes themselves as much as they are looking for bugs/changes working as designed on the PTS. As an example no amount of feedback in this thread is going to change the BOL nerf. That change is going in no matter the thoughts of the community from rage to actual helpful suggestions.

They do look at feedback on things like toppling charge still being bugged as we can see from their repeated updates that it is now working (even though it is not lol). There should be class forums for ongoing discussions and feedback on classes.

Overall I am guessing there could be a better way for letting people know they are reading feedback during these big DLC releases

They did ask us to compile a list of issues at http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread back in December.

Which they promptly ignored.

Much to my dismay -_-

We put a lot of effort into that....

Rainingblood

Ask for feedback!

Ignore the feedback...

skarvika

How do we know ZOS isn't taking notes and having fixes scheduled for later patches? Sooner is better than later of course, but they might have a big wad of fixes ready for a couple patches down the line.

darkstar2084

if this is really just for bug fixes feedback on pts then they should not not call it "Official Feedback Thread for Templars" the wording sounds incorrect. it also specifically says how do we feel about the upcoming changes for the class. There are 66 pages at this point of general dismay and no real response

sadownik

skarvika wrote: »

How do we know ZOS isn't taking notes and having fixes scheduled for later patches? Sooner is better than later of course, but they might have a big wad of fixes ready for a couple patches down the line.

Well how do we know?

Cinbri

Further improvements of Light Weaver:
1. Remove increase duration of Radiant Aura.
2. Make ult return to templar below 60% upon using Healing Ritual and Rushed Ceremony skills.
3. Revamp Armor bonus:

• a. grant 6k Armor rate while inside of area of protection of Restoring Light abilities (inside Rune Focus, upon casting Healing Ritaul, inside Cleansing Ritual.) [to buff our zones of protection], or:
• b. Grant 16k Armor rate for 6 sec after using templar ultimates (Sweeps, Nova, Rite of Passage.)
• c. Remove other bonuses and make standing inside of area of protection of Restoring Light abilities to proc major Evasion buff.

Another reason why Eclipse should become self-buff with absorbing: removal of double reflect made this skill even more weak. Now there is no way to counter Scales, even Defensive Stance; so Scales became much more stronger. Templar won't be able to land buffed Vampire Bane and Solar Flare vs users of those skills, but with using of absorbtion Eclipse he won't be killed by his own range skills at least.
Regarding Radaint Aura:
Just rename it and may it work as Equilibrium: restore stamina in cost of mana/hp. Add vuisual effect from npc mages:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5eJCMsiD4c&feature=youtu.be

Animal_Mother

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Lest we forget " Templars slower by design" the GCD's that were not supposed to be there. And when found was a bug then a feature. I would like to call them out on lying but they hand out bans for that.

Slow indeed.

While solo testing Backlash, I found I could only land 2 javelin attacks in 6 seconds. In the same time period, I got in 8 heavy res staff attacks. Against a dozen or so mobs, I don't think I ever got more than 3 Templar ability attacks in before Backlash went off.

eliisra

skarvika wrote: »

How do we know ZOS isn't taking notes and having fixes scheduled for later patches? Sooner is better than later of course, but they might have a big wad of fixes ready for a couple patches down the line.

They haven't listened or taken in any templar feedback in over a year

If you think they're taking notes right now...stop dreaming.

Since b2p the devs became even more selective with player feedback(not just templars). I dont think they have the time, pushing out DLC's every quarter. Lead combat designer that's apparently in charge of both itemization, CP system, classes and skills lol. How is that guy still standing with that workload? At what point is he suppose to have time to go though templar feedback and understand our shortcomings in PvP?

Prior to b2p they did make templar improvements, like adding a healing component to Puncturing Sweep, buffing magicka management, removing the magicka recovery penalty on Sun Shield, for example. Than it just stopped and they went nerfbat crazy. Pretty astonishing considering how templars weren't overlords or fotm in PvP to begin with, even prior to the nerf streaks.

Feels like the only feedback they're even considering at this point is from players they somehow know by name. Guilds they been in TS with at multiple occasions, loudest streamers and simliar matters more than people who played templar and supported this game for 2 years, but lacks their own YouTube channel or podcast.

What have streamers&uploaders consistently asked for since Orsinium:
Nerf zergs v.s small groups
remove AoE caps
buffs DK's
nerf healing in general v.s mashing Wrecking Blow
nerf templar because heals and we dont play the class
buff AP for solo & small scale

What are the changes in TG

Kinda Like: "Hi guys, we cant remove AoE caps sorry, but we made sure to nerf templars for you guys instead".

Dreddlock-

skarvika wrote: »

How do we know ZOS isn't taking notes and having fixes scheduled for later patches? Sooner is better than later of course, but they might have a big wad of fixes ready for a couple patches down the line.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
This last ESO live Eric Worbel promised a lot of changes for stamina dps. Let's hope come Dark Brotherhood I hope his team delivers the goods. Here's my feed back for when it comes. Try your best ok, it's not like I'm paying a sub fee or anything. ...

My copied and pasted input is below:

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Can you tell Eric Worbel to do this for us templars.

1.Apply biting jabs snare on the initial hit.

2.Change Radial Sweep to a physical damage ultimate.

3.And finally make Rune focus fully mobilized.

Give Templar a true CC so we can stand our ground or escape.

I saw the latest ESO live stream and realize that he plans on addressing stamina class as a whole on update 9.... Dark brotherhood, but that's a long ways away. If he and his team could at least accomplish steps 1 and 2 before Thieves Guild drops, templar will remain competitive. The other two can be implemented next patch.

Let's talk templar escape/ mobility. I get it, we are meant to stand our ground. To do this properly Templar NEED a group CC again. Nothing to powerful. Just one that finally addresses Templars weakness.

If Templars can't escape then we should make it that our enemies can't pursue us! A ranged Root would accomplish this. Here's a idea Eric Worbel can use free of charge...

Sun Spot: envelope your enemy in searing light causing a Dot.
morph1: sun spot (s) now decreases Dot damage and roots multiple enemies in place.
morph2: solar polarity caster envelopes self in light for 4 seconds melee attackers are knocked back and stunned for 2 seconds.

PS. If you can't fully fix Toppling Charge it's ok, we understand. Just remove it completely and create a new Templar gap closer.

PS: any Dev reply would be deeply appreciated, it doesn't even have to be on my post. Just post some sort of reply to confirm ZOS actually reads our input.