Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Armann · February 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

aaannnddd here's that sorc twilight matriarch healing in action on pts (not my video) at least with someone testing it in pve:

https://youtu.be/OaG0cZ7mh7Y

So is *no one* going to be really cheesy and say something like, "I used to be a healer once, but then I took a Wrobel to the knee?" C'mon, whether you love or hate the changes or are kind of meh, that's worth a smoan (a smile groan). As the Argonian proverb says, "It's better to swim in the river of laughter than drown in the bog of tears."

My scales are dry with disappointment.

technohic · February 2016

Rudyard wrote: »

aaannnddd here's that sorc twilight matriarch healing in action on pts (not my video) at least with someone testing it in pve:

https://youtu.be/OaG0cZ7mh7Y

This is why a strike won't work. They already automated our one job.

I actually don't care about the BOL nerf. Again; its more about the lack of understanding about how we have been left with no mobility and our shields rendered useless. We cannot stand in a finite area and face tank away. Even with BOL before, just can't be done.

Unsubbed and uninstalled because the game gets worse every patch and has since the one with the Champion System.

AriBoh · February 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

aaannnddd here's that sorc twilight matriarch healing in action on pts (not my video) at least with someone testing it in pve:

https://youtu.be/OaG0cZ7mh7Y

So is *no one* going to be really cheesy and say something like, "I used to be a healer once, but then I took a Wrobel to the knee?" C'mon, whether you love or hate the changes or are kind of meh, that's worth a smoan (a smile groan). As the Argonian proverb says, "It's better to swim in the river of laughter than drown in the bog of tears."

Added to my signature.

blackcom90 · February 2016

technohic wrote: »

Rudyard wrote: »

aaannnddd here's that sorc twilight matriarch healing in action on pts (not my video) at least with someone testing it in pve:

https://youtu.be/OaG0cZ7mh7Y

This is why a strike won't work. They already automated our one job.

I actually don't care about the BOL nerf. Again; its more about the lack of understanding about how we have been left with no mobility and our shields rendered useless. We cannot stand in a finite area and face tank away. Even with BOL before, just can't be done.

Unsubbed and uninstalled because the game gets worse every patch and has since the one with the Champion System.

EXACTLY! The nerf of bol would be justified if, in exchange, they gave us the opportunity to stand steal and dispense heal without dying a painful death... instead they nerfed giving back absolutely nothing. Just the vision of @Wrobel was given to us, but with that you can't play.

Vixani · February 2016

Awesome,

First we lose majority of tanks to the 'no stamina regen while blocking' now we are going to lose a class of healers to the 'BoL nerf'. So basically everyone dps and self heal/shield stack now, who needs tanks or healers.

nagarjunna · February 2016

AriBoh wrote: »

Added to my signature.

Awesome, me too! And had second thoughts and removed it! There's no need to insult my knee like that!

tinythinker · February 2016

Regarding the vid posted above...

https://youtu.be/OaG0cZ7mh7Y

...those 13.2k and 19.6k heals make me glad I have 2 VR16 sorcs with all of Cadwell Silver/Gold zones complete (not counting group dungeons) and all of the Cyrodiil PvE complete. I gotta try that for myself. I bet my gear isn't quite good enough to hit those numbers but I'm curious how it will compare with my Templar.

blackcom90 · February 2016

Guys don't complain to @Wrobel ... he will never read it. If you want to complain just send it to who is above him. The data are about it are public: http://www.theofficialboard.fr/organigramme/zenimax-media !

Rudyard · February 2016

It's so sad that they justify the changes by saying our party members no longer have to stay within the circle of our Cleansing Ritual ***WHICH IS 12 METERS*** and they then want us to use Healing Ritual, a skill that only heals allies ***WITHIN 10 METERS***? What is this, ZOS on common core math?

Okay, you want parity across classes for healing, I get it. How about some freakin' parity for DPS?!?!?! Templars can get no where near the burst DPS of Sorcs and NBs.

tinythinker · February 2016

Oh, and this one makes me want to try out my old DK whose game completion is more or less tied for first with my Templar. A 60K healing ward

https://youtu.be/0rEGlYkmdFc

Essiaga · February 2016

I posted a poll to gauge how the Templar feel after the ESO live with Wrobel.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_2691464

Faulgor · February 2016

And nobody even mentioned Stamplars yet.

Yeah, stamina builds aren't adressed this patch. Check back next time!
So they're saying you better whipp out your staff this update or you can go suck it. Well that's not discouraging at all.

And what is this supposed playstyle of keeping people out of our "house", or making it hard for people when they enter? Templars are the only class without AoE CC / Area of Denial abilities! Sorcerers have Encase, Daedric Mines, Negate, Lightning Splash; Nightblades have Aspect of Terror, Consuming Darkness, Path of Darkness, Soul Tether; Dragonknights have Standard, Talons, Ash Cloud. I mean, it's one thing to have parity between classes, but he went out of his way to say that this was Templars' intended playstyle - when in fact they are the most lacking in this playstyle.

And the contradictions with the changes in the Restoring Light tree and Healing Ritual have already brought up.

It's too ridiculous, I can't breathe (of life).

...

Alright, evidently all of our suggestions fell on deaf ears, so the best we can do is hold him to his word.

Make Healing Ritual the awesome AoE heal you say it should be. Increase range to 22 meters. Make the Cast uninterruptable. NOW, not 3 months from now.
Throw out Eclipse. Replace it with a decently-sized (12m radius) Area of Denial ability. Snare 70%, constantly drain resources from enemy. If this is my house, it has to outshine anything other classes have in this regard.
Solar Barrage. It needs an additional debuff effect to be useful. Remove Empower for all I care. Make it useful in PvE too.
There are no 60k health characters in this game, just cut it out. Remove the battle spirit penalty from Sun Shield and the like.
Not even touching passives yet, we'll see if you can get those done, then we'll talk.

Until you actually stick to your own words, no more feedback from me. Bye bye.

GhostwalkerLD · February 2016

Wow. I thought I may have been a bit hasty in my unsubscribing, but then I saw that Live today.

Nope, don't regret it one bit. *sigh* Oh well. I'll log in once a day to feed horses and see if my friends need any help for stuff, but other than that, my templar main is retired, and I'm basically just on standby to see what future patches/DLCs are, while playing other games.

Joy_Division · February 2016

I dont know ... still trying to process disappointment.

The thing I don't get is the Eric actually speaks like his has a grasp of the Meta and the basic play-style of what people do, but when it comes to talking about templars, it sounds like he has no experience playing them and how awkward they fit into that Meta. It's one thing to speak about anticipating when to heal for Healing Ritual and to say the templar has a "house," but anyone who has ever tried to use Healing Ritual or defend their "house" in a competitive situation knows just how impractical the templar toolkit is for doing either.

There is a serious disconnect between what ZoS thinks a templar can do and what templars are actually doing in competitive situations

Nifty2g · February 2016

This is becoming laughable

Nifty2g · February 2016

The fact ZOS get us to create a feedback post before PTS was close to being here and they pretty much took none of that advice then they make this feedback thread and take none of the feedback

I'm almost finished honestly

Zheg · February 2016

The bigger problem imo, which became even more evident today, is that Wrobel both doesn't have a good grasp of the current meta, and he has a stubborn vision of what the templar is supposed to be. Even though the players clearly don't want his vision for the templar, and even though the meta in no way even allows for his vision to be realistic or achieved, he's just going to remain firm. I expect no substantial changes to templars for 4-5 months, which is insanity.

He began talking about how he wants classes to be able to do all roles, and then he tries (and fails) to justify his templar ideas by saying that not all classes should be homogenized so they need to suck it up. Balderdash - I say this because I don't get to use this word often, it's a fun word, and I literally didn't even want to log in today after listening to wrobel talk so I needed a bit of fun.

He has a vision for the class that we clearly don't want, and until he gives up on that, we'll remain broken and less efficient than the other classes. FFS a sorc pet heals better than us now, how is that not tragically hilarious?

I'd also point out that I see a wide spectrum of players all reiterating very similar feedback. The feedback is coming from solo/small group pvpers, large group pvpers, veteran pvpers, regular pve'ers, top trial guild pve'ers - casual and hardcore alike. I'm sorry, but wrobel is and has been doing a terrible job.

Calandrae · February 2016

At this point I simply feel betrayed and extremely disappointed. I'm not an experienced gamer enough to give good suggestions about Templars. However, this thread is full of great insight and suggestions - and love for the Templar class. The love that I share after spending the past 1,5 years to advance my main character, a simple and regular PvE Templar Healer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now all that feels like in vain. Not just because of the unfair and unneeded BoL nerf - but because it has become painfully clear how Zos (Mr. Wroebel?) is simply not listening to the feedback they get. It is obvious the classes are not treated equally, and Templars really get the short end of the stick. Not just in healing, though healing is the area that affects me personally the most. But in other areas of the game, too.

So what are my choices now? To keep playing a class that is intentionally being made mediocre in everything they do? Or give up my commitment to this game? I don't have enough playtime to be able to create a new healer with a different class from scratch. Like most people, I work full time to be able to support myself. So starting all over at this point is not an option. I have invested too much in my Templar.

I'm really sad, and it feels weird to be sad about a computer game. So at least Zos has managed to give me a new experience in something...

Cinbri · February 2016

I won't comment anything till next incremental patch, coz all i can say for now is insults. Must watch many Witcher tibutes to chill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zWFj-KNusA

kaalmoth · February 2016

I kinda like the king of my house story he served us. BUT, it would be cool to have facts to back it up. Right now, what do templar gain in their tiny houses others don't have and do fear?
Let's sum it up, in our houses:
- we get healing boost. That's nice but that won't kill anyone (and let's remember it was 30% before, so for strictly templar healing skills, we got nerfed). Let's say here DKs get major mending from igneous shield, while being mobile.
- an armor buff. nobody here has to be reminded, all classes has a way of getting this. The only difference is that while the others are mobile, ours has the smallest duration even if we stay in our tiny house.
- Minor protection, if we give up some magicka regen. Let's remind here NB got it now too, while being mobile. That sorcs got a shield based on magicka, DKs got wings and other stuff etc etc while being mobile.
- Magicka regen. every other class got better ressource management, while, again, still being mobile.

So, even if I like the idea of stand our ground, atm, what is the risk wrobbel is talking about for other players to come into our house?
All classes can get what we have on the defense part, and even better I'd say, while being mobile.
On the offense part, its a joke, we re the only class without major sorcery or brutality. We get 0 pros of having to stay in a tiny radius. Isn't this crazy? The guy in charge of combat system uses his "bad ass" tone to say we are king of our houses, and at the same time we have 0 offensive buff for staying in our areas...

Grunim · February 2016

Northern_Eve wrote: »

At this point I simply feel betrayed and extremely disappointed. I'm not an experienced gamer enough to give good suggestions about Templars. However, this thread is full of great insight and suggestions - and love for the Templar class. The love that I share after spending the past 1,5 years to advance my main character, a simple and regular PvE Templar Healer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now all that feels like in vain. Not just because of the unfair and unneeded BoL nerf - but because it has become painfully clear how Zos (Mr. Wroebel?) is simply not listening to the feedback they get. It is obvious the classes are not treated equally, and Templars really get the short end of the stick. Not just in healing, though healing is the area that affects me personally the most. But in other areas of the game, too.

So what are my choices now? To keep playing a class that is intentionally being made mediocre in everything they do? Or give up my commitment to this game? I don't have enough playtime to be able to create a new healer with a different class from scratch. Like most people, I work full time to be able to support myself. So starting all over at this point is not an option. I have invested too much in my Templar.

I'm really sad, and it feels weird to be sad about a computer game. So at least Zos has managed to give me a new experience in something...

I can totally understand your feelings of betrayal and disappointment. I've been screwed over in the gaming world in the past so I'm a cynical old gamer who learned to not put all my eggs in one basket. So I have made it a point to play multiple characters and not have a true single main character. I just play on whichever characters seems to be the most fun at the time and screw caring about things like how high your PvP rank is or how many achievement points you earned.

At this point in time, I'm glad I only used up one character slot for templar. After watching today's show I don't have much hope they will be fun to play for a long long time.

ZOS, if you believe templars can be fun to play with the "correct approach" could you please publish a guide teaching us how to play this class in a way that is fun? I sure as oblivion can't see how they can be fun to play.

Dread_Guy · February 2016

Nifty2g · February 2016

Grunim wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

At this point I simply feel betrayed and extremely disappointed. I'm not an experienced gamer enough to give good suggestions about Templars. However, this thread is full of great insight and suggestions - and love for the Templar class. The love that I share after spending the past 1,5 years to advance my main character, a simple and regular PvE Templar Healer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now all that feels like in vain. Not just because of the unfair and unneeded BoL nerf - but because it has become painfully clear how Zos (Mr. Wroebel?) is simply not listening to the feedback they get. It is obvious the classes are not treated equally, and Templars really get the short end of the stick. Not just in healing, though healing is the area that affects me personally the most. But in other areas of the game, too.

So what are my choices now? To keep playing a class that is intentionally being made mediocre in everything they do? Or give up my commitment to this game? I don't have enough playtime to be able to create a new healer with a different class from scratch. Like most people, I work full time to be able to support myself. So starting all over at this point is not an option. I have invested too much in my Templar.

I'm really sad, and it feels weird to be sad about a computer game. So at least Zos has managed to give me a new experience in something...

I can totally understand your feelings of betrayal and disappointment. I've been screwed over in the gaming world in the past so I'm a cynical old gamer who learned to not put all my eggs in one basket. So I have made it a point to play multiple characters and not have a true single main character. I just play on whichever characters seems to be the most fun at the time and screw caring about things like how high your PvP rank is or how many achievement points you earned.

At this point in time, I'm glad I only used up one character slot for templar. After watching today's show I don't have much hope they will be fun to play for a long long time.

ZOS, if you believe templars can be fun to play with the "correct approach" could you please publish a guide teaching us how to play this class in a way that is fun? I sure as oblivion can't see how they can be fun to play.

I have every single class, but I enjoy Templar not sure why but I just do, it is the most underpopulated class and ZOS really need to fix their *** up to put it bluntly, I doubt @Wrobel is even responsible for these changes as he doesn't post much at all but comes out to say some outlandish opinions and changes each ESO Live that he is on.

Open your eyes Zenimax, look at this thread. 30 Pages.
Look at the Templar Issue thread. 19 Pages.

Obviously you are doing something wrong, stop heading into the wrong direction, stop continuing to nerf templars for no reason. Fix the bugs up and fix the skills up, there is an obvious issue you guys are ignoring and no one knows why. Whoever is in charge for these fixes, please fix it up. Because right now this video is extremely true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPT85gPa-c

Do you really want a joke video to be true about the company specifically the part where it's fixing problems next major update in 5 months.

BurtFreeman · February 2016

Lettigall wrote: »

Piercing Javelin- Hurl your spear at an enemy with godlike strength,...

awesome! he did not know cancel animation

Kaliki · February 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

We are literally one new skill away from complete obsolescence.

Oh just you wait. I bet the following update will bring in line stamina regenerating abilities.
They must have just missed it this time.

Calandrae · February 2016

Grunim wrote: »

I can totally understand your feelings of betrayal and disappointment. I've been screwed over in the gaming world in the past so I'm a cynical old gamer who learned to not put all my eggs in one basket. So I have made it a point to play multiple characters and not have a true single main character. I just play on whichever characters seems to be the most fun at the time and screw caring about things like how high your PvP rank is or how many achievement points you earned.

In retrospect that's what I should have done, too. I started playing ESO because I am a fan of the Elder Scrolls universe and games, so I had no previous experience with MMOs. And I know there are countless people like me in this game, and I guess they could have made the same mistakes I did.

But I also actually listened and for a long time believing the information and plans about veteran ranks being removed. Which still hasn't happened until this day. So I was stupid enough to wait for that to happen before really leveling any alts past the early vet levels. Another big mistake based on false advertising and information. (Because of limited playtime, for me the journey to VR16 while collecting all skill points, books, Silver and Gold quests etc feels just way too long to be fun.)

So I was just happy to play a fairly good PvE healer with my fairly good guild groups (and various, often very bad PUGs), and I didn't anticipate my class to be nerfed like this. It's one thing to make other classes more viable in healing. That's NOT what is happening now. Templars are made worse while others are made better, so it's a total loss for someone who has made her Templar as healer right from the beginning.

I have known all along that Templar DPS was not comparable to other classes, but now we have lost our edge in healing as well while gaining nothing in return. (Tanking I know nothing about, so I will not comment on that at all.) So developers at Zos: Yes, please tell us how this class is supposed to be played in the future - and I mean played as a fun and rewarding thing, not just frustrating?

(My apologies for all typos and such, English is not my native language, and when upset, I forget how to write it properly!)

phillyboy7897 · February 2016

Why was this thread made?

I guess that's unfair to say they did switch rune back to 8s .

Everything else here was ignored.

No word on why backlash one of the least used abilities in the game is getting nerfed 2 the ground in PvP

I actually do what he's talking about but its only in low threat situations to save magicka and cast time.

To stand in a rune when I'm taking any kind of real heat, and this is just for us temps I'm fully aware this thread is getting ignored other than to troll for negative comment deletes, I'd want all incoming damage reduced 50%. Otherwise I'd rather gamble and try to LoS and or dodge 100% of it.

What wrobel is saying is possible but to sit still and face tank everything For more than 2 seconds requires serious mitigation, like way way more than is possible in the game.

He's actually throwing out some cool concepts and I agree that class distinction is important, but when it comes down to the numbers the ability changes don't match up with our class concept. I.e. the Templars house winds up being about the same defensive capability as other classes achieve while mobile.

So it's just odd to me that that was the talking point about Templars when it's not really possible in game and nothing was changed to make it more possible aside from major mending hitting sweeps, which was sweeps was nerfed to adjust for.

Anyone know if burning light hits shields on PTs btw?

Dimmit · February 2016

Templars were on the low end before this patch - and shouted about it everywhere.
This patch doesn't solve any problems templars had - instead makes it even worse for them.
Feedback to the patch is thrown away and spitted on.
Leveling a complete new other class isn't something most I can afford timewise and even want.
Playing with Templar - not fun at all
Unsub.
Check Witcher or BDO..what else on the market worth checking out?

Cinbri · February 2016

However I fount in Wrobel words 2 very important things:
1. Wrobel confirmed that like DK it designed to be "hold-your-ground" turtle class.
2. And as result - decision i made long time ago to roll tankplar "juggernaut" build was right as nothing will be changed on this and in Update 10 with heavy armor buffs it will prevail even more.

kaalmoth · February 2016

Dimmit wrote: »

Templars were on the low end before this patch - and shouted about it everywhere.
This patch doesn't solve any problems templars had - instead makes it even worse for them.
Feedback to the patch is thrown away and spitted on.
Leveling a complete new other class isn't something most I can afford timewise and even want.
Playing with Templar - not fun at all
Unsub.
Check Witcher or BDO..what else on the market worth checking out?

Soon the division comes out, but im myself more hyped by dark souls 3.