Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Dedricus

Well Wrobel just said it. No changes for another 3 months. Ahahahaha.

nagarjunna

Hmmm...

When words and actions differ - believe actions...

Sallington

Radburn wrote: »

Played a templar since beta and I really enjoy the class in PVE, not so much in PvP. I rolled a Nightblade recently and it became evident over time why the Templar is so weak, here is a summarized comparison:

Nightblade - Class skills & passives synergize well. They can choose a role and do it very well, especially burst Damage. They can utilize animation cancelling which is very important in the current meta. Stamina caters to high Burst damage while Magicka has better survival options. vs Templar's skills & passives which don't really add up to much.

Templar - Class skills & Passives do not synergize, the class suffers from an identity issue. We've seen classes like this before in other games, the jack of all trades. They can do it all, just not very well or as good as other classes. The Magicka Templar performs well in all categories except one, small scale or 1 vs 1 pvp.

In small scale PVP the Templar gets focused and does not have any way to counter the deadly animation cancelling rotations of Nightblades. They are no match for the combination of shield stacking, evasive, fast casting, hard hitting rotation of Sorcerers. In my experience they cannot outlast DKs who are better suited to playing defensive while dishing out damage. Templars defense relies on spamming heals, and they cannot go on the offense. Once you're healing you are already dead.

The Templar, so far as I know, does not have a high burst rotation so it cannot compete in the TTK circus that is live right now. Stamina Templars may have a build which comes close but they require specialized gear and give up way too much of their class skills in the process. Play a nightblade if you want to go stamina. Magicka is where Templars belong, however our good class defining skills like Puncturing Sweep and Dark Flare are locked behind channeling + cast times which just doesn't work in this current meta. We cannot properly animation cancel using them AND they get affected by the horrible lag. Don't even get me started on Focus Charge...

I am really enjoying the fast pace of my Stamina Nightblade and it really opened my eyes. The Templar needs a review and there have been plenty of good suggestions. If you don't plan on changing the current meta then please make Templars viable within it.

Rad for president.

Joy_Division

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:

-combat teams loves and plays all classes equally
-general changes to Templar intended to make it feel like you had more options with the class
-changes to BoL to create parity
-changes to Healing Ritual to make it something useful in group play so allies don't die waiting for heal

Wait, wut?

- The first I'll buy, but it's clear some classes are loved more equally than others (to borrow from George Orwell).
- The second maybe intended, but in practice I have less options since my tanking/mobility have been reduced.
- The third ... parity with what? That we can now heal as well as sorcerers without their shields, mobility, or burst DPS?
- As for the fourth, are they testing on Fungal Grotto at level 14? Because at end-game content with no soft caps, any delay means allies are dying waiting for the heal.

dodgehopper_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:

-combat teams loves and plays all classes equally
-general changes to Templar intended to make it feel like you had more options with the class
-changes to BoL to create parity
-changes to Healing Ritual to make it something useful in group play so allies don't die waiting for heal

Wait, wut?

- The first I'll buy, but it's clear some classes are loved more equally than others (to borrow from George Orwell).
- The second maybe intended, but in practice I have less options since my tanking/mobility have been reduced.
- The third ... parity with what? That we can now heal as well as sorcerers without their shields, mobility, or burst DPS?
- As for the fourth, are they testing on Fungal Grotto at level 14? Because at end-game content with no soft caps, any delay means allies are dying waiting for the heal.

I think that's the point. (love the Orwell reference). Templar has far too many Cons for its Pros.

Spacemonkey

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:

-combat teams loves and plays all classes equally
-general changes to Templar intended to make it feel like you had more options with the class
-changes to BoL to create parity
-changes to Healing Ritual to make it something useful in group play so allies don't die waiting for heal

Wait, wut?

- The first I'll buy, but it's clear some classes are loved more equally than others (to borrow from George Orwell).
- The second maybe intended, but in practice I have less options since my tanking/mobility have been reduced.
- The third ... parity with what? That we can now heal as well as sorcerers without their shields, mobility, or burst DPS?
- As for the fourth, are they testing on Fungal Grotto at level 14? Because at end-game content with no soft caps, any delay means allies are dying waiting for the heal.

Been trying to wrap my head around that one too.
I feel like @Wrobel just spat in my face

AfkNinja

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:

-combat teams loves and plays all classes equally
-general changes to Templar intended to make it feel like you had more options with the class
-changes to BoL to create parity
-changes to Healing Ritual to make it something useful in group play so allies don't die waiting for heal

Welp, wrap that up and tie a nice little bow around it. They don't care. Called it before the first patch notes even posted. I do not regret all the feedback and effort that went into trying to get them to change their minds but it's clear they do not plan on listening to actual Templar's so I am done. I'll check back next year to see what else gets nerfed.

AriBoh

I've missed most of the broadcast can someone tell me in detail how screwed we still are?

tinythinker

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:

-combat teams loves and plays all classes equally
-general changes to Templar intended to make it feel like you had more options with the class
-changes to BoL to create parity
-changes to Healing Ritual to make it something useful in group play so allies don't die waiting for heal

Wait, wut?

- The third ... parity with what? That we can now heal as well as sorcerers without their shields, mobility, or burst DPS?

More parity among classes for all roles. The context was that you don't know what role you want to play if you are new to the game, you just like the idea of breathing fire or summoning storms, so having some classes being far and away better at a role and then deciding later you want to do something your class isn't optimized for is something to avoid.

tinythinker

Chat: Will you consider bringing back Blinding Flashes?

Response: There were problems with it, but it sounds like people are asking for a tanking skill, we will look into it.

tinythinker

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

Soris

tinythinker wrote: »

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

In fact the problem is that they cant protect that house by standing still. Especially stamina builds, when you stand still, you die. Give old blazing shield and a miss chance then we can stand our ground

tinythinker

Soris wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

In fact the problem is that they cant protect that house by standing still. Especially stamina builds, when you stand still, you die. Give old blazing shield and a miss chance then we can stand our ground

From earlier in today's ESO Live: Return miss chance? No. Looking at making health matter more and at tanking skills in general (and Templar tanking skills in particular like Blazing Shield)? Yes.

Dread_Guy

well guys, there's only one solution now. WE NEED TO GO ON STRIKE

dodgehopper_ESO

Soris wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

In fact the problem is that they cant protect that house by standing still. Especially stamina builds, when you stand still, you die. Give old blazing shield and a miss chance then we can stand our ground

That's the point exactly. The only way a Templar can 'dominate space' is by hitting BoL like a monkey over and over, hoping their opponent will get tired, and this only if they've built for the healing role. All other builds need not apply (Tank, StamDPS). At any regard Templar really isn't any better at Dominating Space than anyone else. Perhaps if we had a skill that actually punishes people for getting in our neighborhood then we could talk. Blazing Shield is definitely not that skill right now.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Q: How about Toppling Charge? It is not 'completely fixed'... when will it be?

A: Our patch note wasn't specific enough. We fixed the issue of unresponsiveness when you weapon swapped (it would take a long time if you weapon swapped). Now it is more useful if you want to charge and swap. There are still some issues-- some weird terrain issues. But we'll inform users more to let them know when they can't charge. And there is also server lag so it can't draw path data for any abilities. So there's definitely more complicated issues... and they are complicated. We'd like to get them in but we're doing a lot of things.

Nothing about the Global Cool Down. He didn't even acknowledge it.

tinythinker

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

In fact the problem is that they cant protect that house by standing still. Especially stamina builds, when you stand still, you die. Give old blazing shield and a miss chance then we can stand our ground

That's the point exactly. The only way a Templar can 'dominate space' is by hitting BoL like a monkey over and over, hoping their opponent will get tired, and this only if they've built for the healing role. All other builds need not apply (Tank, StamDPS). At any regard Templar really isn't any better at Dominating Space than anyone else. Perhaps if we had a skill that actually punishes people for getting in our neighborhood then we could talk. Blazing Shield is definitely not that skill right now.

You mean like having Sun Shield do more damage/knock people down, adding Minor Maim to an enemy when you block a melee attack to the Spear Wall passive, yada yada yada?

Seido_Tensei_

Spacemonkey wrote: »

Been trying to wrap my head around that one too.
I feel like @Wrobel just spat in my face

Same here man, I think today's ESO live was the nail in the coffin for me. No acknowledgement, no plan to address any of the issues and as always....no ETA.

@Wrobel Your attitude and demeanor is very frustrating. It is as if no one is sympathetic to the Templar community.

nagarjunna

After today’s Live ESO (13/02) I have decided that my Templar will be retired. I will not be running with her except to do Writs and Guild Store stuff (she’s my GS mule). I have way more fun tanking/dpsing on my Sorc/DK/NB. One less healer in the game!

For those of you who are sticking with the Templar, I would like to express my admiration and respect, you are completely awesome!

Animal_Mother

tinythinker wrote: »

Chat: Will you consider bringing back Blinding Flashes?

Response: There were problems with it, but it sounds like people are asking for a tanking skill, we will look into it.

We've been asking for it since 1.6 was on PTS.

Dedricus wrote: »

Well Wrobel just said it. No changes for another 3 months. Ahahahaha.

3 effing months? Last November weren't we told to wait until the our grand savior "Thieves Guild DLC" to appear before any major changes or fixes appeared for us. We got two sort of beneficial changes and heavy nerfs. And now we have to wait other three months?

We are always being told to wait "three months" or "next major DLC".

Talyena

Their logic fails me.

They nerfed BoL so you don't have to cast BoL all the time. How will making it heal less allow me to cast it less?

Templars are slow and DKs don't have an execution ability to make those classes feel unique. Why do you have to make a class less fun in order to make it feel unique? That has to be one of the lamest excuses ever.

And after listening to the long explanation on why they aren't removing AOE caps, I still don't understand why they aren't removing AOE caps. His ability to talk in circles is amazing. He should run for public office.

timidobserver

My expectations are pretty low. All I really wanted was some suggestion that we might get Focused Charge fixed, but I couldn't even get that. I guess the next failed attempt to fix it will be in 3 months.

dodgehopper_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Question: Can Templars haz Major Expedition?

Response: Templars are designed to stand tall and not let people come into their house, but by nerfing Major Expedition you can almost sprint as fast as someone with that buff

In fact the problem is that they cant protect that house by standing still. Especially stamina builds, when you stand still, you die. Give old blazing shield and a miss chance then we can stand our ground

That's the point exactly. The only way a Templar can 'dominate space' is by hitting BoL like a monkey over and over, hoping their opponent will get tired, and this only if they've built for the healing role. All other builds need not apply (Tank, StamDPS). At any regard Templar really isn't any better at Dominating Space than anyone else. Perhaps if we had a skill that actually punishes people for getting in our neighborhood then we could talk. Blazing Shield is definitely not that skill right now.

You mean like having Sun Shield do more damage/knock people down, adding Minor Maim to an enemy when you block a melee attack to the Spear Wall passive, yada yada yada?

Sure that works. I've said it before and I'll say it again: There's more than one way to skin a cat. (why do people skin cats?)

I don't have just one answer to solve the problems and usually I offer multiple options in part because I realize the Devs have a certain vision and are trying to push that vision forward. I can deal with that, they're artists and its their artwork. The problem I have is that DK does just about everything Templar does only way better, and I'm even talking about healing. I actually shuffled my main DK over toward the Healer role for that reason exactly. Between Combat Prayer, Igneous Weapons and Igneous Shield and the upcoming boost to magma armor and so on I feel like DK is a way better healer than Templar. The only area where I feel DK healer is inferior is in the capacity of refilling your chums Stamina bar. DK is just tougher, meaner, and has such beautiful cc and debuffing. DK is glorious the way it synergizes between your Earthen Heart (most of your mitigation/heal skills) and stamina/ultimate/resource regeneration. While its doing that it definitely can dominate space in far better ways with powers like Talons, Scales, Cinders, Petrify, Stone Fist (which also heals).

Pomaikai

Guys and gals, I said it before, and I'll say it again. Just stop playing your Templars now. Roll something else up. I think I'm going to give a go at a Sorc for a while. I'm just going to retire my Templar to crafter status only, and do all of my playing on the new toon. It's really frustrating, as it was my only character, but I can't keep playing this craptastic disaster of a "balance" to my class.

GO ON STRIKE!

When there are no more Templars healing for Pledges, Trials, and PVP groups we'll see if ZOS finally takes notice. Let everyone else learn to heal groups, or sit in the LFG tool like so many flies in amber. Civil disobedience is our only recourse at this point in time since @Wroebel isn't listening.

I want you to get MAD! I'm a Templar dammit! My character has meaning! I want you to go your starter cities, and stand by the Wayshrines and yell, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rGIY5Vyj4YM

bikerangelo

timidobserver wrote: »

My expectations are pretty low. All I really wanted was some suggestion that we might get Focused Charge fixed, but I couldn't even get that. I guess the next failed attempt to fix it will be in 3 months.

This ESO live was the first time I saw Wrobel, and I honestly thought he would've had some decent logic behind some of his decisions. But now?

wayfarerx

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

The only area where I feel DK healer is inferior is in the capacity of refilling your chums Stamina bar.

This is the only unique positive element of a templar healer anymore. Anything else unique about us is something we cannot do effectively (mobility, resource management, etc).

We are literally one new skill away from complete obsolescence.

technohic

AriBoh wrote: »

I've missed most of the broadcast can someone tell me in detail how screwed we still are?

They have no comprehension at all on what is wrong with the class still, to this day. Thats why any buff attempts will continue to be worthless. They see things as parity rather than lacking necessary things that make a class work in PvP.

david.haypreub18_ESO

AriBoh wrote: »

I've missed most of the broadcast can someone tell me in detail how screwed we still are?

Utterly screwed. Eric didn't address any of the major outstanding issues to the class, but rather just justified the nerfs.

There's nothing more coming for Templars at all. The patch that was supposed to fix and buff us has instead nerfed us to the ground.

You might even be better off with a Stamina Sorcerer; at least he mentioned trying to help them in update 10.

timidobserver

wayfarerx wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

The only area where I feel DK healer is inferior is in the capacity of refilling your chums Stamina bar.

This is the only unique positive element of a templar healer anymore. Anything else unique about us is something we cannot do effectively (mobility, resource management, etc).

We are literally one new skill away from complete obsolescence.

That is definitely the last standing thing that makes Templar superior to other healers. It's ultimately why I stopped theorycrafting the idea of swapping from a Templar healer to a DK healer. Any stam build is going to prefer a Templar healer over any other healer, regardless of comparative healing power. I expect that to be nerfed anytime now since it is the last thing that really holds Templar healers over others.

BalticBlues

tinythinker wrote: »

ESO live for Friday, Feb 12th:
-changes to BoL to create parity

So when do Templars get mobility, premium dps and useful shields as Sorcs "to create parity"?

So far, I always thought Templars were meant to suck in all of these categories because of their premium healing to avoid unbalance. However, now that the premium healing is gone and Sorcs heal as good or even better, where is the balance? And what is the purpose of the Templar class?

The Sorc already has been king in this game before the patch. With the king's buff in healing and the clown's (Templar) nerf in healing, the unbalance reaches a new level of absurdity.

Mr. Wrobel, I feel betrayed for putting many months into a class that now is crippled and has no real purpose anymore. This is not the class anymore that ZOS once promoted. Grant the misled customers at least a free class change (preserving skill points, non-class skills (Undauntend, Alliance Wars etc.) and achievements) to find fun in another class and the game again.