Official Feedback Thread for Templars

BalticBlues

Islyn wrote: »

Please stop with Healing Ritual. Just delete it and make something else.

Fully agreed. This skill has been 100% superfluous for so long, and the changes wont help it.

btw: With the reduced costs of Reviving Barrier, Rite of Passage will become superfluous as well.
Barrier usually is much, much better because it does not freeze the Healer like RoP does.
With the same costs of Reviving Barrier and RoP, I will never slot the RoP morphs again.

Back to Healing Ritual: If things get bad, we have no time for a Healing Ritual.
Healing is reactive, while Barrier is proactive. Proactive play is so much better!
So why not make Healing Ritual proactive as well? Like a kind of poor man's Barrier?

FizzOnly

Leon119

BalticBlues wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Please stop with Healing Ritual. Just delete it and make something else.

Fully agreed. This skill has been 100% superfluous for so long, and the changes wont help it.

btw: With the reduced costs of Barrier, Rite of Passage will become superfluous as well.
Barrier usually is much, much better because it does not freeze the Healer like RoP does.
With the same costs of Barrier and RoP, I will never slot the RoP morphs again.

Back to Healing Ritual: If things get bad, we have no time for a Healing Ritual.
Healing is reactive, while Barrier is proactive. Proactive play is so much better!
So why not make Healing Ritual proactive as well? Like a kind of poor man's Barrier?

Barrier got nerfed to 6 people though
All hail magma shell the new barrier

Chelos

OH! Now I get it! They want to make PvP quests harder:
Kill 10 Templars! Hardest quest ever cause there's none around any longer

Gosh I have to wind down!

Nifty2g

So I'm going to say, almost everyone right now is overreacting with a lot of their abilties with these changes it's going to require a lot of testings and a lot of changes to your rotations. But from just theorycrafting some quick things piecing parts together I can see templars being incredibly powerful in many many ways.

I shall update my Templar guide very shortly with all my testings, you guys will be very surprised

The breath of life nerf was unjustified and unneeded, it was just listening to 1vxers complain on stream, ZOS needs to stop listening to that feedback as I believe it takes the game in a bad direction - as I've stated before some of the information provided by streamers is great but other requests are just outright absurd and completely biased, and they gain a huge following from players who don't understand then start up a rally. I'm not going to name any names at all but that's my personal thoughts. Breath of Life was fine how it was, Honor The Dead does the same thing but gives magicka return, so what is the point of even using Breath of Life now? This is just a recreation of the past on how a lot of the changes were handled. ZOS understand and they are listening to *problems* but we don't know how to fix it, so we will just ruin it.
No, take the time to think about it and problem solve. I don't think this was needed at all. I won't name any names to who I am pointing this at so don't take offense.

I should've posted this in here not the other thread

Dovahmiim

Everyone else has basically articulated the problems with these changes to the Templar Class.

Templar is now sub-par for all PvE content. Sorcerers now have capability to be better healers, especially in trials.
In PvP, the theme of standing your ground is further encouraged by many of these changes, in a game where mobility and positioning is key. However encouraged =/= positive changes, as Templar is still left without ANY tools to stand our grand and win, as heal spam does not constitute as it is not a proactive defense.

The nerf to Purifying Ritual, which will no longer remove Meteor/Snipe/C-frags/etc. debuffs during travel time, is a serious hit to the class. This was an untold necessity for Templar survival in PvP in many situations, I would have been okay with this if Eclipse was modified to be a reactive skill (Meteor casted by enemy --> Eclipse casted after on caster --> Meteor reflected), however this change is not present.

Another untold nerf to Templars is the removal of the ability to counter-reflect projectiles. A tactic I commonly employ to burst DKs is to cast Dark Flare/Meteor on a DK, then Total Dark just as they cast reflect. With this no longer an option, Templar are 100% bottlenecked in to playing melee Jab spamming builds, with absolutely no variety.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certain that Templars who have very good stats will do quite well in PvP still, given the changes to Jabs. In fact I would wager that they will do just as well as in the current build of the game... That is to say, worse off than an equally skilled player of any other class who is spec'd just as well (all except magicka DK, and perhaps stam Sorc if played by someone who cannot LoS well).

I think what I take most issue with is the fact that the face-value thoroughness of the Templar changes shows that the devs actually considered all class skills in game. However, changes such as those below can only be interpreted as an insult or general incompetence, I refuse to believe the Devs genuinely think they are being productive here... I have too much faith...

• Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
  The Devs are well aware that players are complaining primarily about the GCD being implemented immediately after completing the charge animation. The idea that you have "fixed" this skill is laughable.
• Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
  Sorry, I refuse to believe this isn't just poking fun at Templars. This skill, even with the Radial Sweep morph, does less damage than Dawnbreaker on non-vamps, albeit with a smaller range. There is no way the devs actually thought this would give Templars a viable PvP ultimate, literally no way.
• Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, this can't be real XD
• Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
  Gee, thanks! No good Templar DPS or Healer will use this skill, even now.
• Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
  I am only mad about this change because Templar got absolutely nothing to make up for this nerf. We needed a trade off to make this inevitable change worth it, we got nothing.
• Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
  ...Make it stop...
• Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
  I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Did the devs ignore literally all feedback on this skill...?
• Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
  Yep, this will definitely be a useful change! Especially when in most end game content and PvP, especially vMA, you need to be very mobile! Thanks for doing the opposite of what Templars suggested with feedback ZoS :')

The positives to counteract all this just aren't there, and this should clearly indicate that Templars really have been put on the back bench for now. My advice for all people currently playing this class is to reroll any of the other classes for a more enjoyable and productive experience, and come back to Templar if/when ZoS have hired new people to deal with class balance.

I know many of you probably have hope that ZoS will read this feedback and realise they have dun goofed, but if we look at their track record, this will not happen. I really hope I am proven wrong, because I do not have the time to reroll another character, so I will unfortunately have to un-sub and quit should these changes not be revised. Godspeed my Templar friends

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Soris wrote: »

Im gonna post this in here too then. You can also check the topic if you like https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245171/sun-shield-radial-sweep-radiant-aura-channeled-focus-healing-ritual

• Radiant Ward(morph of sun shield) that 1 percent buff on shield strength for each hit is ludicrous. It is not even the actual shield strength but per hit you take. There has to be bigger buff to actual shield strength for both morphs! Or battle spirit should not include health based shields! Currently what you get from 50k health and 100 points in bastion is only 9k shield in Cyrodiil. That's even lower from maxed out sorc shield. It does not synergise with magicka healing/dps builds due to its health based nature and thus It has to be doubled or added a secondary effect like miss/dodge chance or knockback when explode, whatever but something. Currently it does not fill the role of templar "stand and fight".

• Radial Sweep 1 meter increase, total of 6 meter range is still so little for an ultimate. Certain melee skills have 6 to 9 meter range. This skill should have 9 meter range minimum!

• Radiant Aura Again, you did the same mistake, this skill's active effect is rendered by potions. Make it a flat percentage instead of major/minor so it may have an actual use finally. This is no brainer at this point, just make it real.

• Channeled Focus This has to be mobile buff or vastly increase its radius. The radius is so small to stand inside for whole duration. Either make it share the same radius with cleansing ritual or make it a true mobile buff!

• Healing Ritual Even with reduced cast time, a hard casted healing spell in this game means death! This skill should be changed into a hot like mutagen/vigor or maybe a buff that grants dmg reduction or regen or dodge chance, whatever. Until you do that, it will have NO use in any content in this fast paced action game and you know that.

Agree with everything here. Most important is an exception to battle leveling for health % based heals and shields. This will fix DK dragon's blood, Igneous shield, blazing shield, and help tanks all around.

Khaos_Bane

@Dovahmiim I agree with a lot of your post above but how are sorcerers better healers?

Leon119

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

@Dovahmiim I agree with a lot of your post above but how are sorcerers better healers?

how are they worse ?

healing atm is spamming springs and rapid regen if u have SPC.
combat prayer with the amount of spell dmg sorcs have makes it a burst heal comparable to breath of life.
worst case senario u can replace BoL with Healing Ward. not to mention sorcs can do alot of dps while healing as well

Jaywics

I know own a vr16 templar who will get out healed by a sorc, out tanked by a dk, and out dpsed by everyone once TG drops lmfao.....

Just come right out and say I wasted months of my time and I must now re-roll another class and loss my 289 skill points ffs..

@Wrobel

@ZOS_GinaBruno

maxjapank

Dovahmiim wrote: »

[*] Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

I'm sorry. Could someone enlighten me about this? I understood this to be just a tooltip change. The ability hasn't changed at all. You could never get the Magicka regen outside of the rune. Or could you?

Dovahmiim

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

@Dovahmiim I agree with a lot of your post above but how are sorcerers better healers?

Leon119 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

@Dovahmiim I agree with a lot of your post above but how are sorcerers better healers?

how are they worse ?

healing atm is spamming springs and rapid regen if u have SPC.
combat prayer with the amount of spell dmg sorcs have makes it a burst heal comparable to breath of life.
worst case senario u can replace BoL with Healing Ward. not to mention sorcs can do alot of dps while healing as well

Actually I am not referring to either of these. BoL still makes Templars far more reliable and effective healers for certain end game content in the current state of the game. Read the changes for the Sorcerer Restoring Twilight pet. A Sorc with high max magicka literally has a skill that function the same as BoL, however it passively deals damage while summoned, costs less, heals for more, and heals for this max value for two targets, as opposed to BoL which has a weaker secondary heal. I am not making this up, myself and some guildies tested this earlier today and Sorcerers have a healing skill more powerful than BoL. I have no words.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

[*] Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

I'm sorry. Could someone enlighten me about this? I understood this to be just a tooltip change. The ability hasn't changed at all. You could never get the Magicka regen outside of the rune. Or could you?

i always got it, it is easy to see the 120 tick on your mana bar, if you have AUI or even use the combat log.

Dovahmiim

maxjapank wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

[*] Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

I'm sorry. Could someone enlighten me about this? I understood this to be just a tooltip change. The ability hasn't changed at all. You could never get the Magicka regen outside of the rune. Or could you?

In the current state of the game, I get the Magicka regen while outside of the rune, I am reasonably certain this regen stays until the rune dissipates. If they revising it, it is very likely this will be changed.

maxjapank

Dovahmiim wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Dovahmiim wrote: »

[*] Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

I'm sorry. Could someone enlighten me about this? I understood this to be just a tooltip change. The ability hasn't changed at all. You could never get the Magicka regen outside of the rune. Or could you?

In the current state of the game, I get the Magicka regen while outside of the rune, I am reasonably certain this regen stays until the rune dissipates. If they revising it, it is very likely this will be changed.

Thank you. I'm not in game right now. But checking some of the outdated? Esohead and wiki info, it states it two ways. One says that you get Magicka regen while near the rune focus. The other (and I believe is the current in game tooltip) says that you get the Magicka regen while in the focus. So near or in?

I don't use combat addons so maybe I received a buff without knowing it. But I always though that being inside the focus was intended, especially when it stated that you would only receive the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs for 8 seconds after leaving the rune.

But anyways, I'm fine with it as is. And being able to get +25% to our heals while in it and after leaving it for 4 seconds is a pretty massive buff. What I would like is to get a Magicka reduction or Magicka regen in one of our passives. I really think we deserve a bonus for slotting one of skills from our healing tree.

cazlonb16_ESO

SeventhCelestial wrote: »

Before we start re-rolling characters let's remember that this is the PTS, and changes can happen from this.

Heh.

Anyways, I cringed when I heard Templars got Nerfs, not buffs. I mean. What. . .? What the actual what?

In past patches it only went downhill from the first build for Templars. Prediction: Focussed healing affecting resto staff and stamina heals won't make it to live.

Other than that...lol ?

Ishammael

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

The only "nerfed" skill was BoL -- and yeah, it was needed. 28m, insta-heal, 3 targets, ignore LoS, 15k+? Please. Even with only 2 targets its still good.

Other stuff:
1. Healing ritual is still bad. Skill needs to be scraped.
2. Radial Sweep should probably be 9m at least. It would be a great ultimate if so.
3. The eclipse changes seem wonky.
4. Will toppling charge remain working? Only time will tell.

Tankqull

1.

Morathras wrote: »

THE *** GCD ON TOPPLING CHARGE IS STILL THERE!!!!!!

aswell as being stuck in animation. WTH are you actually doing @ZOS? logged into the PTS created a templete templar skilled toppling charge and got stuck in animation while chrging a guard... WTHell...

Gigasax

@Dovahmiim

I could not agree more with your Post!
Thank You

@ZOS: You have managed to make the Templar the least played Class again

P.S.: I just began to like my Stamplar...

BalticBlues

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical.

You do not seem to know the meaning of the word "hysterical".
The reactions and statements in this thread are sober, based on years of experience.

PUGS will die in PvE dungeons because of the PvP BOL nerf.

I like healing random dungeons groups scaled to V16. It's like black box gaming.
I did it just yesterday over 3 hours for fun, result: ca. 80% success, 20% failure.
With the massive BOL nerf, the result would have been much worse.
BOL is costly, but an essential life saver in case of mass damage (think of vet Darkshade).

The BOL nerf will give random players a miserable PvE experience.
I wonder how often PvP BOL critics run PvE dungeons with PUGS?
With the 25% BOL nerf, I will probably no longer heal random groups.

Holy-Dope

"Sad" Time to Delete my templar. He has survived enough through all the BS class changes to him all this time and still be able to make the *whatever* good out of it he could.

Any suggestions, what I should play now (except sorc)...

Lettigall

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

For stamina builds there aren't a single ability that got damage buff and outside PvP knocback removal won't be noticeable.

tinythinker

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

The only "nerfed" skill was BoL -- and yeah, it was needed. 28m, insta-heal, 3 targets, ignore LoS, 15k+? Please. Even with only 2 targets its still good.

Other stuff:
1. Healing ritual is still bad. Skill needs to be scraped.
2. Radial Sweep should probably be 9m at least. It would be a great ultimate if so.
3. The eclipse changes seem wonky.
4. Will toppling charge remain working? Only time will tell.

It's not all "NERF! " you know -- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2658903/#Comment_2658903

And the verdict on #4 was in a few minutes after people got into the PTS. Toppling Charge still broken in Cyrodiil.

Ishammael

Lettigall wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

For stamina builds there aren't a single ability that got damage buff and outside PvP knocback removal won't be noticeable.

Nothing was taken away from stamina builds. They will hit as hard as they ever did. Balanced Warrior passive is still really good. Now stamina builds have some new sets to play with. The Bowplar might even make a return.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical.

You do not seem to know the meaning of the word "hysterical".
The reactions and statements in this thread are sober, based on years of experience.

PUGS will die in dungeons because of the PvP BOL nerf.

I like healing random groups scaled to V16.
I did it just yesterday over 3 hours just for fun, result: ca. 80% success, 20% failure.
With the massive BOL nerf, the result could be 60% success, 40% failure.
This will needlessly give people a miserable PvE experience.

I wonder how often the PvP BOL critics run PvE dungeons with PUGS?
With the 25% BOL nerf, I will probably no longer heal random groups.

Hysterical, "deriving from or affected by uncontrolled extreme emotion."
So yeah, hysterical. Very few posts in this thread are "sober"

I, too, have played Templar pretty extensively.

Regardless, I can heal Pug Dungeons on a DK with a resto staff. BoL is simply not that important. There are many, many options, more so even for a templar: e.g. Repentence and Purifying Ritual (which gives major mending now!).

The damage buffs for magicka templars are excellent.

remilafo

Omg yes.. thank you for these patch notes.. i really do love all the changes..

Some feedback:
- Excellent PvE update and i think everyone here is happy. Well except maybe templars but BoL needs a nerf it's true.
- Stamina Builds didn't get much of anything except a indirect nerf via the revised CP system but the new stam sets are amazing.
- Alot of the PvPers are really unhappy but we all know pvp players are are the loudest. Hopefully those cyrodil improvements will be awesome.

Overall good patch notes. Keep up good work..

Chelos

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

Why the flying guar-poo should I care about damage sources when I want to do a healer?
Sheesh!

Dovahmiim

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

The only "nerfed" skill was BoL -- and yeah, it was needed. 28m, insta-heal, 3 targets, ignore LoS, 15k+? Please. Even with only 2 targets its still good.

Other stuff:
1. Healing ritual is still bad. Skill needs to be scraped.
2. Radial Sweep should probably be 9m at least. It would be a great ultimate if so.
3. The eclipse changes seem wonky.
4. Will toppling charge remain working? Only time will tell.

Actually several other Templar-specific and/or general changes result in Templar being nerfed significantly. I have outlined a selection of these in my above post. Not only that, but we are now arguably behind the DK class as a whole, putting us in dead last for all facets of the game, both PvP and PvE. I have already spent significant time in the PTS, there is absolutely no reason to have a Templar in group anymore, other classes fill each role better.

I have mained a Templar since launch, and even I agree that in PvP, the smart heal component of BoL is OP. Just because our class is weak comparatively does not mean we can ignore something if it is broken. The fix ZoS have chosen however render Templers significantly less useful in PvE, and puts us as 2nd or even 3rd (for most max-level content) as healers. The BoL nerf is an ineffective, poorly thought out fix that achieves nothing but frustration.

As for our buffed damage, for instance, Dark Flare was buffed damage wise, and that wasn't what we wanted at all. For Dark Flare to be a viable PvP skill for a ranged Templar build, we needed a reduced cast time or faster travel time, we got neither. Dark Flare is outdone by Jabs for PvE DPS, so this "buff" achieves very little. Several of the other changes, such as with Sun Fire, were welcome, however nobody will use this skill even with it's buff, as Inner Light is still a clearly better option.

So basically, all the buffs given to our class will go unused, with the exception of the Major Mending adjustment, this was a good change. As a result, we are effectively left with more nerfs than buffs, especially from a PvP'ers perspective. This total error in judgement by the ZoS developers responsible for these changes is not final, however, as there is a very slim chance they will read this feedback thread and reconsider certain choices... so of course we are going to be "hysterical".

BalticBlues

Ishammael wrote: »

I can heal Pug Dungeons on a DK with a resto staff.

Congratulations. Exactly how many hours did you heal PUGS this week?
I do it on a daily base for training, and I know resto staff cannot handle all situations.
The more dynamic content gets, and ZOS wants to increase the dynamics,
the less efficient resto staff is and the more you rely on BOL.

Ishammael wrote: »

BoL is simply not that important.

BoL is the most important skill for Templars.
Pro players as Deltia even recommend putting BoL on both bars.
I don't do this, because I see the expensive BoL only as a fallback.
A fallback that has to work 100%, not just 75%.

Ishammael

BalticBlues wrote: »

Pro players as Deltia even recommend putting it on both bars.

You just lost credibility.

Ishammael

Chelos wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The complaints about templar nerfs are hysterical. Across the board, almost all damage sources were buffed.

Why the flying guar-poo should I care about damage sources when I want to do a healer?
Sheesh!

You can still heal. Maybe try more than just mash one button to heal now.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Congratulations. Exactly how many hours did you heal PUGS this week?
I do it on a daily base for training, and I know resto staff cannot handle all situations.

What, exactly, is your point?