Official Feedback Thread for Templars

BalticBlues

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Jabs - very good
Dark Flare - OP AF
Jesus Beam - Back to 1.6
What else do u want?

In PvP, a mobility option that gets you out of a mess.
In PvP, an ultimate that is actually useful 1v1.
In PvP, a shield that is actually useful 1v1.
In PvP, a dark flare that procs like Crystal Fragments.
In PvP, a class that can survive 1v1 against a skilled Sorc

Overall, skills that actually become useful instead of being placeholders as Radial Sweep or Healing Ritual. The next thing not to be used anymore will be Right of Passage, because Barrier now costs the same and does not freeze the healer. The Templar class is the only class with many WORSE skills than the ones available to all players.

All the Templar changes are made only for PvP. And all these PvP changes come too late. The Templar class is almost extinct in PvP. All the people who re-rolled a liquid Sorcerer/NB won't come back to the Templar snail.

What really hurts now is that the Templar class goes down the drain in PvE as well. ZOS dictates immobility and lower healing, while content gets more dynamic and demanding. With the latest changes, Templars now can become extinct in PvE as well.

RIP.

Alorier

lol even though Zos broken my favourite toon to a point I don't even know if I want to log onto her , I do love the post with the Robin reliant that made me day just a little better

technohic

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

The ones who complain about the changed have definately not played a magicka one on PTS.

I went to duel/test area earlier and 1shot people left and right. Some even called me a hacker and exploiter.

Jabs - very good
Dark Flare - OP AF
Jesus Beam - Back to 1.6

What else do u want?

LOL This is not good news. I predicted an overbuff followed by a nerf that leaves us worse off than before.

Cryhavoc

I am not upset about the Breath of Life change. In PvE, nothing will change at all for my gameplay.

In PvP, as a Templar healer, I will now have to use 2 skill bar sets: 1 for solo/duo and 1 for group play. BoL is no longer viable for healing groups larger than 3-4 in PvP (which is fine, mostly). BoL will work just fine for solo/duo, but that is all.

I agree, BoL was awesome in PvP, and probably needed to be toned down. For Group healing in PvP, without using a Resto staff, what will I use instead? Healing ritual? Maybe. Purifying ritual has a buff to its synergy, but I am not sure that will be enough.

My question: without using a Resto staff, how will you heal a group larger than 3 as a Magicka Templar?

Pomaikai

Wow...

What if you just changed the name of the game to Nightblades and Sorcerers of the Elder Scrolls Online? That's what you're going for right?

It's quite obvious that the Dev's only play NB's and Sorcs, and their preferred style of play is PVP ganking as they've said as much in public. Anything that interferes with their ability to be the premier playground bullies, and that IS EXACTLY WHAT THAT STYLE OF PLAY IS, must be nerfed! Any ability which doesn't assist them in their quest to one shot opponents and then teabag their corpses must be buffed! That's what we see, time and time again with each and every patch.

We're getting tired of it. Sick and damned tired.

I have played healers since I started playing MMO's in EverQuest over 12 years ago. This game appears to do everything in its power to NOT allow me to do this effectively, nor have fun doing so. Playing a healer was a lot like playing chess. It was all about learning resource management, and there was such a thing, and it could be learned, and those that did were awesome healers. In this game, everything possible has been done to make resource management an utter crap shoot. Our only true method of resource management is to stand perfectly still with a giant neon sign over our head that says KILL ME NOW!, whilst hooked up to an IV drip of magicka potions.

THAT SUCKS! It is NOT fun!

Here's a news flash... I only play a single character in this game. A magicka based Templar. That's it. If these changes go through, I'm going to have two choices. I can either create a new character and mothball the one I've spent the past year leveling and gearing up, or cancel my ESO subscription and find another game to play. Seriously, that's it. Those are the choices you are handing me.

All the other classes had better start improving and slotting their self heals, because if this disaster hits the live servers, then y'all will be healing yourselves in Pledges, Trials, and PVP groups because the Templars will just be gone. You'll be trapped in the LFG tool like flies in amber...

Zinaroth

I made a very big thread over here on what needs to be done for Stamina Templars in particular:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245360/stamina-templar-balancing-thread#latest

I hope you guys at ZOS will take a look along with the rest of you!

Just to summarize my conclusion on there:

- Puncturing Strikes and its morphs back to 170% additional damage on main target
- Fix Burning Light hidden cooldown and the proccing on shields
- Further buffs to class ultimates
- Better rescource manage (stamina/magicka) through passives
- Make Eclipse a self buff that absorbs/reflects instead of a targeted effect
- Sun Shield should not be affected by Battle Fatigue and possible recieve more buffs
- See if you can add more stamina morphs; other classes have them
- Make sure you make Rune Focus and morphs self buffs instead of ground targeted effects, do not lock us down into one position!

To understand these you have to read the post though, hope you guys at ZOS take a look because I spend a lot of time on this, thank you!

AfkNinja

As expected a huge nerf to our healing AND our purify. In return for this a minor increase in dmg on a couple of skills and Stamplar is ignored again. I appreciate the Major Mending but requiring us to stand still to get it is a slap in the face from ZOS. I'm pretty sure I am canceling my sub if these nerfs go live, I can't take this anymore and I'm not re-rolling to FOTM club.

I'm just so sad and disappointed with these changes. (except the jabs change, that was asked for.)

Reorx_Holybeard

danno8 wrote: »

@Reorx_Holybeard You're not understanding how it works (not that I blame you, the tooltip has always been terrible.) The "extra damage" is referring to how much of the damage taken is stored as extra damage. My tooltip says 18% so if I do 50,000 damage in the time Purifying is active the damage stored will be 50,000*.18=9000 damage explosion.

In other words for me to hit my maximum damage cap of around 20,00 on the PTS, I (or me and my allies) would need to do around 111,000 damage in those few seconds.

So they increased the cap, but made it much harder to reach that cap. It is now really a group skill.

Thanks for the explanation...testing it a bit on PTS and I see how it works now. So it stores up more damage but just at half the rate it did before. Although even solo I can just about hit the damage cap in 6 seconds. Purifying Light damage does crit now as well (was there an issue with it not critting previously?).

So, in theory, if I keep casting it after it ends and cap the damage it runs around 4k DPS which is not bad, especially considering the additional healing Purifying Light does.

sabresandiego_ESO

Someone should test if thaumaturge is increasing the damage of jabs/sweeps.

HxC

For PvE:

The overall changes are not too bad for magicka DPS, better Dots, Dark flare increase put him on par with sweeps so no dps loss when needed to empower, meteor or other skills, Sun fire buff could be interesting if sun fire can replace rune focus on long boss fight(with ele drain).

We will still be the best healing class even with 2 useless skills (healing ritual, Restauring Aura)
Stamplar and tank still don't have a skill to make their stamina back in ongoing fight.

Still no change on burning light passive, remove CD and modify damage and/or proc chance to balance it (the balance is not needed because even will full proc templar will not be OP,) so Templars can use multiple aedric spear skills in the same time without weakening them. And they already do random damage ^^

Still no burst capacity. (same here rebalance burning light)
I'm expecting a good DPS buff for magicka templar (2k+, will also depend of CP changes) on big boss fight, it will not make templar on par with other but it's better than nothing.
Tankplar still the worst tank(not bad but nothing like other class can do), and stamplar with their friend Stamsorc waiting for some love.

For PvP

The gap between good templar players and others will increase. BoL change is a misunderstanding of what's happening in PvP. BoL on certain build can make a player back to full life with one button so the QQ will continue and their is already in game counters to that problem, there is no imbalance. It's the synergie between Nightblade/Dk stam build and templar behind them that make BoL annoying in PvP not the skill itself.

Better change (even if not needed) will be to diminish the heal part of BoL, keep the 3 target thing, and templar should be in ritual circle to get it at full power(or invest point in blessed). (With this the skill is the same for PvE and a bit weakened for PvP)

Red circle on Blazing spear is a needed change but make the skill landing instantly please.
Knockback (i will miss it) on jab and CC immunity is a L2P issue , be prepared to read some QQ thread about the snare effect .
Rune Focus not giving back magicka if templar move from rune lol, Templar are already not really good on wide battlefield when you need to move a lot, so what is the point of that change? Increase magicka regeneration at least when we are in it.

Templar has too much weaknesses, that's why a lot of people struggle to play it correctly in end game content because you need a lot of experience and dedicated time to know how to handle them.

Can't block when casting our main damage skills (DPS loss for some fight), poor ressource management, main DOT that do damage every 6s and need to be charged, etc...

bosmern_ESO

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

The ones who complain about the changed have definately not played a magicka one on PTS.

I went to duel/test area earlier and 1shot people left and right. Some even called me a hacker and exploiter.

Jabs - very good
Dark Flare - OP AF
Jesus Beam - Back to 1.6

What else do u want?

Better group play? Templars are a lot more viable solo, but they took a massive hit to group play. The best things templars had to offer a group was their heals, as they have no AoE CC, no buffs that are given to allies (other than Illuminate) and now they lost their heals (im sure a DK could provide as much support as a temp now, if not more)

Essiaga

Aedric Spear

Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): This morph now displays a hostile red telegraph if it is cast from enemy Templars.
(This should be in art and animation. The ability hasn't changed so why even mention it here? This will just be more of a tell on a clunky slow animated skill.)

Focused Charge: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
(by responsive do you mean it will no long cause a Global cool down on all abilities for like 10 or so seconds? )

Piercing Javelin: Increased the range of this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 20 meters.
This was blanket buff to range spells so its not a buff to this skill.)

Puncturing Strikes: This ability and its morphs no longer knockback and apply crowd control immunity to the nearest enemy on the final hit; instead, they now snare that enemy by 70% for two seconds.
(2 seconds is weak. Mass Hysteria last 4, Warmth (DK passive) is 4, but i guess it better then nothing. This will effect PVE survival a little bit but at least Sun Shield ISN'T neutered in PVE like it is in PVP.)

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
(So ... nothing. Skill will still miss most enemies and is just as weak. Its like getting 2 cent raise. Pets got all kinds of reworked and we couldn't get more then 1 meter?)

Radiant Ward (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
Dawn’s Wrath
(OMFG! 1%?? The base skill is trash in PVP due to being based on health (a worthless stat) and Battle Spirit! This is probably the skill (Blazing Shields morph though) that would have the largest impact on the templar class. It would give us Mitigation and increase Damage and lessen the need for movement speed Boost that i see DK got. But NB got bufs. DK Shield got some work. 1 F-ing%?)

BTW Shields just got a little weaker since they will now take DOT damage. This 1 % increase per hit doesn't even make up for that. My 4k shield hitting 1 target will give me 240 additional shield. That's a basically a single friggin DOT tick not that it matters because 240* 6 targets isn't even a light attack and with animation canceling your pretty much going to get hit by at least a light attack and another ability that will do 4k min (unless its a templar.)

Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
(WTF does this even mean? Damage from this ability is stored damage. A buff of 25% max and nerf of 66% stored is a nerf ... unless the tool tip doesn't explain the skill accurately at all, which is totally normal for ZOS. Pets got reworked though. So instead of 42% additional damage it will do 28ish% additional damage?)

Eclipse:
This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles.
(Great ... is it still CC breakable? Also it effected single target spells (Lava Whip, Conceal Weapon, Death Stroke, etc) not just projectiles. Is this alteration of the skill? If you fixed BLAZING SHIELD I wouldn't mind so much if it was just ranged.
Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target. (Guess that answers the question. What a joke.)
Fixed an issue where this ability and the Total Dark morph could reflect snares from ground-placed ticking abilities, such as Caltrops or Ash Cloud, and cause you to move at extremely high speeds.

Enduring Rays:
This passive ability now only increases the duration of the Sun Fire, Eclipse, and Nova abilities.
Increased this passive ability’s bonus to 15/30% more duration at Ranks I/II from 10/20%.
(Only made sense to exclude Backlash. Its amazing it took this long for this to be done, but then again ... ZOS be like "F*** Templars)."


Nova:
Reduced the effects and visual light intensity for this ability and its morphs. (Art and animation)
Increased the damage from the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies by 16%.
(But can the caster synergies?)Party buff. Not a Class buff. Synergies can not be considered class balance in PVP. Plain and Simple.
Increased the activation range for the Supernova and Gravity Crush synergies to 3.5 meters from 2.5 meters.
(Blanket change to Synergies. Its an AOE ability. If you're with in the AOE you should be able to synergies.)

Radiant Destruction: Fixed an issue where the execute bonus damage from this ability would not apply if multiple Templars were channeling these abilities on the same target. (Cool.)

Solar Flare: Increased the damage for this ability and the Dark Flare morph by 12%. The damage of the Solar Barrage morph remains unchanged.
(Solar Barrage needs more utility and its animation fixed. I can care less for DF buffs due to its cast time and crappy animation canceling. This change further only devalues SB as its already IS the underused morph. /thumbs up. )

Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy. (So its just Velocious Curse? Is it CC breakable as well? and why is this separated from the other Eclipse changes? Organization please. )

Vampire’s Bane (Sun Fire morph): Increased the damage over time duration for this morph to 9 seconds from 7 seconds.
(Didn't DOTs change to tick every 2 seconds or was that just AOE DOTS or selected AOE DOTS? Extending to 9 seconds + 30% from Enduring Rays= 11.7 seconds of purge-ability. Duration time is worthless IMO on DOTs. Give it more damage per tick or upfront damage. This is only good for the passive buff )


Restoring Light

Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals. (LOL what ever.)

Cleansing Ritual:
Increased the healing from the Purify synergy from this ability and its morphs by 12%. (Again party buff. NOT class balance as it does nothing for the Templar.)
Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to cleanse projectiles that were mid-flight. It now matches the behavior of the Purge ability. (AKA nerf ... but hey we got BOL and silly tiny shields that just got at MAJOR 1% buff so who needs defensive abilities when you totally lack inclass mobility. Long live the Vamp Templar.)

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
(Again an obvious change that should have been done long ago.)

Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
(The only reason I can see for nerfing BOL (with out providing an really buff to damage, mitigation, or mobility) is to make this skill more valuable but I still think you totally missed the mark. Were getting less utility out of the skill so we need to slot another and another. No change to Wrecking Blow though which clearly out performs (empowers, knockdown, stun, can't be interrupted) ever stamina based spam-able aside from maybe Sneak Attack due to insta-cast. No nerf to Sorc shields which again is THE shield that causes shields to be effected by Battle Spirit.)

Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
(Crap that got slight polish. Are you guys even trying? Remove this morph and make repentance with magicka regen or something else entirely. Then give us regen in our passives like every other F***ing class. Our skills are to limited and situation to use this morph which is no better then popping a pot.)

Restoring Focus (Rune Focus morph): This morph now grants you the Minor Protection buff, in addition to granting the Minor Vitality buff as a morph effect. (This is funny cause this is suggestion that I made in the Templar thread only i wanted it done to Rune Focus and carried over to the morphs. You made a tanking morph more tanky when tanks are a forgotten role do to the uncapped stats and lack of utility of HP. This only helps those ALREADY using it and will not make more people use it.)

Rite of Passage: In order to prevent visual issues or issues where the channel would end prematurely, this ability and its morphs can no longer be cast in mid-air.

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

A few common sense alterations in passives but no value added. (Only new Regen via Radiant Aura, with takes up a slot and sacrifices Repentance.)
A few minor tweaks with no real value added. (No real Damage, Mitigation, or Mobility.) DOT duration is laughable and DF which retains all of its weaknesses.
A nerf BOL and Healing Ritual, our only skills that do perform.

Radiant Destruction and 1 of the many Toppling Charge bugs are supposedly fixed (though there's already post about both having bugs on PTS). I can't get in PTS to check what else has changed or how things are performing so i'm just basing this on the patch notes, but when compared to what the other classes alterations are the templar simply stays put. Stamplars ... nothing. It is clear who has the Dev's ears and none of them are actually playing templars. Pets are being revamped again. DK got what seems like some pretty good buffs. Cloak's DOT removal was nerfed to basically reduce DOT damage, but the rest were buffs.

Maybe in 2017. I highly doubt this team can adjust skill any further AND fix whats found to be broken before TG-DLC goes live. The very least they need to do for magicka Templars is fix Sun Shield to make it viable in PVP.

SturgeHammer

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

The ones who complain about the changed have definately not played a magicka one on PTS.

I went to duel/test area earlier and 1shot people left and right. Some even called me a hacker and exploiter.

Jabs - very good
Dark Flare - OP AF
Jesus Beam - Back to 1.6

What else do u want?

I haven't got to try it out on PTS yet, but all of these changes sound awesome to me. Responsive toppling charge, no free cc immunity from Jabs, buffed unstable core, some incidental buffs to dot damage, and Honor the Dead avoided the nerf.

So unless these changes are bugged or weirdly implemented, I couldn't ask for a better update.

Reorx_Holybeard

Essiaga wrote: »

Backlash: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but decreased their damage stored amount by 66%. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
(WTF does this even mean? Damage from this ability is stored damage. A buff of 25% max and nerf of 66% stored is a nerf ... unless the tool tip doesn't explain the skill accurately at all, which is totally normal for ZOS. Pets got reworked though. So instead of 42% additional damage it will do 28ish% additional damage?)

I too was confused by this skill until @danno8 explained it better. The change made it do more potential damage per cast (+50%) but it stores the damage slower (-50%) so you/your group need more DPS in order to hit the damage cap on it in the 6 sec duration. Note you only need about 18k DPS in order to hit the damage cap in 6 seconds so it isn't really that much.

I would slightly reword the tooltip to be something like:

Summon a expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy. 22% of the damage taken by the target over 6 seconds is released at the end of the spell as magic damage to a maximum damage of 24123.

Calandrae

I once created my templar to be a healer. I chose the class with a dedicated class skill tree for healing. I want to continue to be a PvE healer, I have no interest to learn a different role or level yet another character - and least of all, start to PvP.

One third of our class skills are dedicated for healing, what is the point of making them less useful? If all classes are supposed to be as viable healers, why does the skill line even exist?

I can honestly say, that if I can't continue to heal PvE group content efficiently, I'll rather just stop playing than switch my role or level another class.

I'm a good healer - I know I can still keep my usual groups alive after the BoL nerf, because I never spam it anyway. But my resources will become more sparse and I can do less buffing and dps on the side. However, with random pugs it will become a lot more difficult, probably not worth the trouble anymore.

Joy_Division

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

The ones who complain about the changed have definately not played a magicka one on PTS.

I went to duel/test area earlier and 1shot people left and right. Some even called me a hacker and exploiter.

Jabs - very good
Dark Flare - OP AF
Jesus Beam - Back to 1.6

What else do u want?

Templars are indeed better glass cannons in the new patch. And with the nerf to purifying ritual, the still feeble shield, and the whole need to stay in the focus thing with little ways to tank, it is a glass cannon with no mobility/escape.

Me, you, Blab, and other offensively minded templars will probably do better in the next update.

But I'm guessing many people who rolled templar was no looking for that sort of gameplay.

Jura23

Sweeps snare effect should proc on the first hit, not last.

bowmanz607

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

Essiaga

maxjapank wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Rune Focus - The main change that caught my eye:

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

If I'm reading this correctly, it states that you MUST be INSIDE the circle at all times to receive the buffs that each morph provides. When I logged onto the PTS today, I was still receiving the magicka while being outside the circle. The magicka gain lasted 18 seconds, just like it does on live. I hope this isn't a bug, as forcing us to be immobile doesn't make any sense. Nobody will use the ability if he/she is forced to stand in a circle that has a 1 meter diameter.

What!? I thought that having to remain in the circle for the buffs from the morphs was always the case. The Major Ward and Major Resolve only lasting for 8 seconds after leaving the circle was always the case. A bit short. But you could always run back over your circle and get another full 8 secs. Not very mobile. But you could still move around the circle area.

But the Magicka regen from Chanelled Focus always required you to remain in the circle. You didn't receive the magicka regen once you left the circle. If this wasn't the case, then I've been benefiting from maigicka regen that I didn't realize I was getting.

Magicka regen for 18 seconds sounds amazingly too good to be true. I'd settle for even the 8 seconds like the unmorphed buffs. If only.

Using AUI I've not seen the magicka regen outside of the Rune. Infact the skill seems to be the most accurate area of effect in the game to me. No give at all.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Cryhavoc wrote: »

I am not upset about the Breath of Life change. In PvE, nothing will change at all for my gameplay.

In PvP, as a Templar healer, I will now have to use 2 skill bar sets: 1 for solo/duo and 1 for group play. BoL is no longer viable for healing groups larger than 3-4 in PvP (which is fine, mostly). BoL will work just fine for solo/duo, but that is all.

I agree, BoL was awesome in PvP, and probably needed to be toned down. For Group healing in PvP, without using a Resto staff, what will I use instead? Healing ritual? Maybe. Purifying ritual has a buff to its synergy, but I am not sure that will be enough.

My question: without using a Resto staff, how will you heal a group larger than 3 as a Magicka Templar?

BoL was nerfed specifically to force healing ritual down our throats. If you want to heal the group you must use this. Sadly, I still don't think it will work.

BoL wasn't that bad in PvP anyway. It was strong, but with battle spirit buff it really meant you had to spam it and watch for debuffs. Now I don't see a reason to use this over Honor the Dead.

Strife morph got reduced too. I guess you can't have a NB be a better healer than your dedicated healer class...

Hiero_Glyph

bowmanz607 wrote: »

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

The problem with BoL was smart healing and the ability to heal targets you couldn't see. This change does nothing to fix those issues and just makes it require being spammed even more. If BoL had a line of sight requirement then it would avoid healing players through floors/walls since the radius was rather large. Also, smart healing targets literally anyone that has low health, even if you don't know they need a heal. This is what makes spamming BoL OP; healing up to 3 targets just makes each spam more effective so ZOS is fixing the wrong issue.

Nifty2g

I can't actually tell what over half the people are upset about in here

Alorier

Oh I see what's really going on Zos your bring out a new class but had to make room first so your killing off Templars I'm wise to your plan wink wink

Sempars

Northern_Eve wrote: »

I once created my templar to be a healer. I chose the class with a dedicated class skill tree for healing. I want to continue to be a PvE healer, I have no interest to learn a different role or level yet another character - and least of all, start to PvP.

One third of our class skills are dedicated for healing, what is the point of making them less useful? If all classes are supposed to be as viable healers, why does the skill line even exist?

I can honestly say, that if I can't continue to heal PvE group content efficiently, I'll rather just stop playing than switch my role or level another class.

I'm a good healer - I know I can still keep my usual groups alive after the BoL nerf, because I never spam it anyway. But my resources will become more sparse and I can do less buffing and dps on the side. However, with random pugs it will become a lot more difficult, probably not worth the trouble anymore.

hummm we get Major mending now?????? Use Rapids? Healing Springs? Thats a 30% buff to those skills. When someone gets hit hard you cast BOL? If everyone is getting hit you cast remembrance? problem solved dont get the issue.

technohic

Essiaga wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Rune Focus - The main change that caught my eye:

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

If I'm reading this correctly, it states that you MUST be INSIDE the circle at all times to receive the buffs that each morph provides. When I logged onto the PTS today, I was still receiving the magicka while being outside the circle. The magicka gain lasted 18 seconds, just like it does on live. I hope this isn't a bug, as forcing us to be immobile doesn't make any sense. Nobody will use the ability if he/she is forced to stand in a circle that has a 1 meter diameter.

What!? I thought that having to remain in the circle for the buffs from the morphs was always the case. The Major Ward and Major Resolve only lasting for 8 seconds after leaving the circle was always the case. A bit short. But you could always run back over your circle and get another full 8 secs. Not very mobile. But you could still move around the circle area.

But the Magicka regen from Chanelled Focus always required you to remain in the circle. You didn't receive the magicka regen once you left the circle. If this wasn't the case, then I've been benefiting from maigicka regen that I didn't realize I was getting.

Magicka regen for 18 seconds sounds amazingly too good to be true. I'd settle for even the 8 seconds like the unmorphed buffs. If only.

Using AUI I've not seen the magicka regen outside of the Rune. Infact the skill seems to be the most accurate area of effect in the game to me. No give at all.

I've always seen he return outside the circle but maybe I should be quiet about it.

bowmanz607

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

The problem with BoL was smart healing and the ability to heal targets you couldn't see. This change does nothing to fix those issues and just makes it require being spammed even more. If BoL had a line of sight requirement then it would avoid healing players through floors/walls since the radius was rather large. Also, smart healing targets literally anyone that has low health, even if you don't know they need a heal. This is what makes spamming BoL OP; healing up to 3 targets just makes each spam more effective so ZOS is fixing the wrong issue.

although that is one issue, that is not what i am talking about. Also, smart healing will never be removed so have to deal with that aspect. The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ish - not true. Purifying Ritual "fix" is a more significant nerf than losing a secondary heal. In fact, it is the biggest nerf to the play-styles of all 4 classes IMHO. These defensive capabilities were just taken away without any thought given to compensation.

I think if you read past the emotion, most of the posters here are not so much complaining that templars are nerfed again, it's that many of our skills that we repeatedly told ZoS are awkward, wonky, or just plain useless have not been addressed at all. Sun Shield, healing ritual, radiant aura, radial sweep, etc., all this stuff was inefficient, redundant, substantial choices that few people used and all of them are still just that. Like, why do we even come on the forums?

I think most templars here recognize we will be better offensive players and while that suits the playstyle of many of the better known templar PvP players, the other aspects of the class, particularly the defensive, took a major hit - and nothing about the meta since 1.6 was defensive at all.

We are better glass cannons. But did the people who rolled templars want to play a glass cannon? I don't think so. Hence, much of the emotion in this thread.

@Joy_Division -- hit me up on PTS. We'll run through some tests and circle back on this thread.

PS. We need to do some DK things, too.

technohic

The one thing with the BOL nerf is I don't take honor the dead because I want a higher chance it heals me rather than some other dude standing in siege damage. Wonder if it's that cut and dry now.

UrQuan

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

The problem with BoL was smart healing and the ability to heal targets you couldn't see. This change does nothing to fix those issues and just makes it require being spammed even more. If BoL had a line of sight requirement then it would avoid healing players through floors/walls since the radius was rather large. Also, smart healing targets literally anyone that has low health, even if you don't know they need a heal. This is what makes spamming BoL OP; healing up to 3 targets just makes each spam more effective so ZOS is fixing the wrong issue.

Yeah, making BoL have a LOS requirement would be a change that would make sense, since it would address the biggest issue with the skill in PVP, and it wouldn't negatively affect PVE. Making it heal one fewer target is simply a bad change to it that makes no sense.

Here's what the BoL change means for PVE.

Scenario: in a group dungeon, the tank and DPS players are doing their thing, the Templar healer is hanging back and throwing out buffs etc. A boss mechanic hits the tank & DPS - we'll assume they all have enough health to avoid getting one-shotted, but it does enough damage to put both DPS very close to death, and put the tank (who is naturally getting heavier damage sent his way) in danger of getting killed too.

Today: the Templar healer hits BoL, which instantly heals the 3 others enough that they're no longer in immediate danger of getting killed, throws out a HoT to restore them, and gets back to doing buffs/contributing to the group DPS/replenishing his magicka.

With the PTS changes: the Templar healer hits BoL, which instantly heals 2 of the 3 others enough that they're no longer in immediate danger of getting killed, he hits BoL again to try to save the 3rd. By this time there's a decent chance that the 3rd has taken more damage before the second BoL is cast, and now there's a dead player who needs to be resurrected. Because BoL has now been cast twice, and it's more expensive than most HoTs, the Templar is now in more danger of running out of magicka, and is less likely to be able to afford to throw out a HoT and/or buffs or contributions to the group DPS.

Now in an experienced group who is used to playing together and who knows the fights in the dungeon, you're unlikely to end up in this scenario, as it's unlikely that all 3 other group members will need an emergency heal at the same time. In a PUG, however this happens. All. The. Time. Today a Templar healer can get the PUG past this dangerous moment, and everyone hopefully learns from the close call. With BoL only affecting 2 targets, though, the chances of this close call ending in someone getting killed are drastically increased, and when one party member goes down and someone needs to resurrect them that drastically increases your chance of wiping. In my experience when a PUG wipes on a fight, people are far less likely to learn from the experience, and far more likely to just get frustrated. When a PUG makes mistakes but manages to succeed it's much easier to talk to the party members about what went well and what can be done differently/better.

Hiero_Glyph

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

The problem with BoL was smart healing and the ability to heal targets you couldn't see. This change does nothing to fix those issues and just makes it require being spammed even more. If BoL had a line of sight requirement then it would avoid healing players through floors/walls since the radius was rather large. Also, smart healing targets literally anyone that has low health, even if you don't know they need a heal. This is what makes spamming BoL OP; healing up to 3 targets just makes each spam more effective so ZOS is fixing the wrong issue.

although that is one issue, that is not what i am talking about. Also, smart healing will never be removed so have to deal with that aspect. The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Except if all those Templars have LoS on the target you can easily engage them instead. A healer that can simply spam heals should be able to keep a player alive, but if you force that healer to become exposed to heal then you can put pressure on them and force them to do something else. I'd honestly be fine with a slight nerf to the heal amount of BoL if it retains its 3 target limit, but smart healing makes this skill more about spamming it until you actually heal the desired target. Again, the fix needs to require line of sight to heal a target and a slight nerf to healing if that allows it to retain its 3 target limit. A radius decrease could be useful as well but that makes the lack of mobility even more apparent.