The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now available.

FFS ZOS... AGAIN PTS PATCH NOTES!

nordickittyhawk
nordickittyhawk
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Veteran Dungeons

Veteran Imperial City Prison
Decreased the amount of damage that monsters do throughout this dungeon.
Reduced the health of the Flesh Sculptor’s Flesh Atronachs.
The Flesh Sculptor’s sprinting inmates now move slower.
The Flesh Sculptor now summons fewer inmates.
Veteran White-Gold Tower
Decreased the amount of damage that monsters do throughout this dungeon.


i wont add anything... please discuss...:
  • Malmai
    Malmai
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    Very nice
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Just to be clear, we never promised that the performance in Cyrodiil would be fixed with today's patch. What we did say was that we were continually working to improve performance by adding little things in at a time, which includes some items in today's patch. There's no magic bullet to fix all performance-related issues, though.
  • Arkadius
    Arkadius
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  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Well, the dungeons weren't not going to undergo a nerf.
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • omfgitsbatman
    omfgitsbatman
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.
    Edited by omfgitsbatman on October 26, 2015 7:35PM
    He's the healer Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hurt his tank. Because he can heal them to full. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful rejuvinator. A Cloaked Healer.

    @Omfgitsbatman PC/NA
    Ticktick-Argonian Nightblade Healer/Magicka DPS
    Tinytick- Imperial DK Tank
    Wuches Y'Shaur- V16 High Elf Sorc Magicka DPS
    Ticktator- Dunmer DK Magicka DPS
    Tick Head- Dark Elf Magicka NB DPS

    GM:
    Mercs Of Sovngarde (EP/NA): AA (HM), HRC (HM), VSO (HM), VDSA, VMSA complete
    Vet Maw 4/5

  • abhimat1999rwb17_ESO
    @omfgitsbatman Totally agree with your post.

    To be honest the nerfs aren't a shocker to me coz it happens in every MMO, but zos should have waited a little bit more to nerf the new content.

    When the IC patch came in, it took us like 11 hrs each to complete the new vet dungeons, but now they've become much more easier coz we've done it so many times and have a good group chemistry. In fact me(DPS) and my friend (Tank), we 2 manned molag kena on vet mode the other day. So, in no way i would say that it's too difficult. It's just a matter of getting a group together and learning new dungeons with THAT group.
    Tookey - VR16 AD Sorceror
  • Malmai
    Malmai
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    Yep
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Just to be clear, we never promised that the performance in Cyrodiil would be fixed with today's patch. What we did say was that we were continually working to improve performance by adding little things in at a time, which includes some items in today's patch. There's no magic bullet to fix all performance-related issues, though.
  • abhimat1999rwb17_ESO
    He did mention it was the first time that took 6 hours. And it's because it takes time to learn new mechanics on the first run. I'm not an elitist or play the game whole day coz i can only log in at night after i come home. I'm just saying that there needs to be some difficult content unlike the old vet dungeons which most of the people can run through without any difficulty.
    Tookey - VR16 AD Sorceror
  • OmniDevil
    OmniDevil
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    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    I'm not sure I could have put it better, even if I tried. 100% agree.
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  • omfgitsbatman
    omfgitsbatman
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    That's what normal is for.
    He's the healer Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hurt his tank. Because he can heal them to full. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful rejuvinator. A Cloaked Healer.

    @Omfgitsbatman PC/NA
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    Tinytick- Imperial DK Tank
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    GM:
    Mercs Of Sovngarde (EP/NA): AA (HM), HRC (HM), VSO (HM), VDSA, VMSA complete
    Vet Maw 4/5

  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    That's what normal is for.

    Agreed that is what normal is for, I bet if we convinced the devs to give us a "Hardcore mode" so we could still get challenging content for us that want it, the casuals would complain that its to hard and demand they nerf it. You cannot only cater to the casuals and you can't only cater to the hardcore's, that's why we have different modes to separate the two, but everyone wants all the achievements and complete everything so they want it catered to themselves and that means if they can't complete then its to unfair and "PLOX NERF BAD DEVS!!!"
  • kojou
    kojou
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    I am all for challenging content, but when I try to get a Vet ICP group together and nobody wants to do it because it is too big of a pain in the ass, then there is a problem. Hopefully this will be enough that I can actually get people to run it with me.
    Playing since beta...
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    ZOS, helping to create an endgame that more than 1% of the players can enjoy.

    I'm totally in favor of changes like this. That being said, I'm also not against an ultra hard mode for bragging rights and possibly leaderboard status. Making your entire endgame (including gear progression) cater to the top 1% was never a good idea.
    Edited by redspecter23 on October 26, 2015 8:28PM
    Bal-Busters - PC/NA
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Agreed that is what normal is for, I bet if we convinced the devs to give us a "Hardcore mode" so we could still get challenging content for us that want it, the casuals would complain that its to hard and demand they nerf it. You cannot only cater to the casuals and you can't only cater to the hardcore's, that's why we have different modes to separate the two, but everyone wants all the achievements and complete everything so they want it catered to themselves and that means if they can't complete then its to unfair and "PLOX NERF BAD DEVS!!!"

    Nope. Again.
    I could never complete Sanctum Ophidia on Hard Mode but I never asked for it to be nerfed. That's for better players than me and my groups and that's fine.
    However, if specific set items had been gated behind that hard mode, I would have asked for it to be nerfed. Simple as that.

  • abhimat1999rwb17_ESO
    I can't even imagine the number of "plz nerf Maelstrom arena" posts in forum after it's released.
    Tookey - VR16 AD Sorceror
  • jakeedmundson
    jakeedmundson
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    That's what normal is for.

    i disagree... normal is to get acquainted with a dungeon. you get to know how it runs and you get starter gear drops.
    normal mode isn't "casual only" content just like veteran mode isn't "elite player" only content. This game is like any other product...it needs to appeal to the majority to be successful and make money.
    Everyone reaches "veteran" status by playing past the end of their faction's content. if you get to v16, have decent gear, and know your build... you should be able to group with friends and work your way through the vet content... but that's not how it works is it?
    Too many times where dps is never enough... or the tank isn't tough enough... healer can't heal enough... it all seems to come down to champion points... someone can look up a build, put together gear, learn a rotation... but if you dont' have 400 cp, you won't beat certain parts of the game.... and thats stupid.... sorry, but it is.
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  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    I can't even imagine the number of "plz nerf Maelstrom arena" posts in forum after it's released.

    If after one months it has been beaten by only 2% or even 5% or the players on vet mode, yes, it will have to be nerfed. And that's normal.

  • OmniDevil
    OmniDevil
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    Agreed that is what normal is for, I bet if we convinced the devs to give us a "Hardcore mode" so we could still get challenging content for us that want it, the casuals would complain that its to hard and demand they nerf it. You cannot only cater to the casuals and you can't only cater to the hardcore's, that's why we have different modes to separate the two, but everyone wants all the achievements and complete everything so they want it catered to themselves and that means if they can't complete then its to unfair and "PLOX NERF BAD DEVS!!!"

    That bold part, right there, is defined by the exact attitude you have about this so called "Casual" player. You can't be a special snowflake if players who don't no-life a scenario in-game can obtain it to. Priorities must be difficult.

    In the end, we all paid for the game, to some extent, therefore equal opportunity should be permitted to all players, regardless of "casual" or "hardcore" play styles.

    By your definition of what a "Hardcore" player is and what a "Casual" isn't, you should all be participating in these eSports making hundreds of thousands of dollars in tournaments. Unless you are, then hey. Great.
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  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Rayste wrote: »
    The change needed to happen. ZOS has metrics ... They probably saw that only a small percentage of the population was completing said content.

    What sense does it make to bother with new content when most of the population is unable to complete it? Just food for thought.

    Most "elite" players don't care about others, all they care about is themselves and their "shine". They don't even care about the game really. It's just all competition to them. Nerfing stuff removes competition a bit.

  • tengri
    tengri
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    the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it.

    Don't worry, they don't.
    Surely they think they do and there are a lot loudmouths from this category on here creating the illusion they matter most - but all things considered they are a rather insignificant little club.
    And even @ZOS knows that... they only need some time to gather their data and adjust as needed.




  • Scyantific
    Scyantific
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    Wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if ZOS hadn't decided that "Veteran" mode was just turning everything into Bullet Sponges that hit like a truck.
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

    The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
    there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

    Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
    CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
    People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
    Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

    We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
    If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
    if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
    Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

    That's what normal is for.

    No. Normal is too damned easy. We breeze through normal without even trying.

    The problem is that the "new" vet dungeons are so out of whack with the original vet dungeons in terms of difficulty. They should've tuned vet to what people have come to expect from a vet dungeon (er, perhaps a bit harder than that) and created a new hardcore mode for people who think it's fun to spend half of their waking hours in a day to clear a single dungeon.

    Yea, I've cleared the new dungeons on vet mode to say that I can do it. But it's such a colossal waste of my time--time that I'd much rather spend on something else--and such a source of frustration (e.g., flesh grenades that require a clunky synergy key press and an even clunkier aiming method) that it's just not fun, and not worth doing on a regular basis, as is required for pledges.
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  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    Wait theres a mechanic on flesh sculptor?

    If ZOS didn't spoonfeed half of the community then we would stop seeing nerfs like this, the "hardcore" players are the ones who have been around since the start and have dealt and played the hard content before ZOS decided to change their philosophy and cater largely to the weaker audience; 32 life trials, death penalties, time trials that were hard to get, trial hardmodes that took months.

    Now we dont get death penalties and 72 life trials and easily beaten within 8 minutes or less. Not having a death penalty promotes an extremely bad playstyle.

    Only way to fix this would be to add in what I like to call a mode for Veteran players and players who want to challenge themselves to better themselves at the game called Nightmare which increases the damage significantly and health to test your builds out and sustain etc etc, another thing players need to do is stop being so stubborn on their builds and acknowledge that it's not the best they can do, I see this so much in ESO people REFUSE to have help and get offended when you tell them they can do better than they are.

    For example; this was posted over a month ago (September 14th)


    This was posted 5 days ago (October 22nd)
    Edited by Nifty2g on October 27, 2015 2:22AM
    North American Megaserver
    Guild - Mundus (GM)
    Tick-Tock Terrorzier | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart
    Literally Unplayable - Dragonknight Imperial Tank
    Weary Emoji - Nightblade Dunmer DPS

    European Megaserver
    Guild - Blind Luck (Member)
    Immortal Redeemer |
    Excessive Profanity - Dragonknight Tank
    Literally Unplayable - Nightblade Dunmer DPS
  • PBpsy
    PBpsy
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    Good job.
    ESO forums achievements
    Proud fanboi
    Elitist jerk
    Troll
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    Fan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)
  • SienneYviete
    SienneYviete
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    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Wait theres a mechanic on flesh sculptor?

    If ZOS didn't spoonfeed half of the community then we would stop seeing nerfs like this, the "hardcore" players are the ones who have been around since the start and have dealt and played the hard content before ZOS decided to change their philosophy and cater largely to the weaker audience; 32 life trials, death penalties, time trials that were hard to get, trial hardmodes that took months.

    Now we dont get death penalties and 72 life trials and easily beaten within 8 minutes or less. Not having a death penalty promotes an extremely bad playstyle.

    Only way to fix this would be to add in what I like to call a mode for Veteran players and players who want to challenge themselves to better themselves at the game called Nightmare which increases the damage significantly and health to test your builds out and sustain etc etc, another thing players need to do is stop being so stubborn on their builds and acknowledge that it's not the best they can do, I see this so much in ESO people REFUSE to have help and get offended when you tell them they can do better than they are.

    For example; this was posted over a month ago (September 14th)


    This was posted 5 days ago (October 22nd)

    While I agree that there should be an even harder difficulty, the fact that these dungeons are daily pledges is a fairly large part of why people want a nerf. Changing builds yeah i'm fine with that and did so to get through vwgt (still no prison yet, finding it really hard to get a group) the fact of the matter is most players even fairly decent ones don't have the time nor patience to roll hours and hours to get themselves through these dungeons.

    Also of note is your group is not the average, well well above average in fact and you need to understand that the majority of the player base will never be able to pull the numbers you guys can.

    Once again I would definitely be in favour of some type of hardcore mode and nerf the vet because the normal is just stupidly easy and for most current players the vet is just too difficult. Just my two cents.
    Delta
    Valheru's
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