FFS ZOS... AGAIN PTS PATCH NOTES!

Ezareth

Let me try another angle here.

The real issue at hand is WGT/ICP are both Undaunted daily quests. These quests were meant to be completely by a larger segment of the population than are currently completing them. If the rotation were not including them I wouldn't care that they remained extremely difficult. I had no problems completing WGT but when ICP is up I don't even bother trying. It's just not fun and the Warden set is so bad that it's not even worth running ICP over WGT.

I still think that out of both instances the Flesh Sculpter is the buggiest/rng fight there is and was overly difficult and needed adjusted. I don't support nerfing the damage across the board of all the mobs as I never found any of them to be challenging or difficult.

Senaxu

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I support 3 difficulties.

I play this game with a lot of different people of varying skill/progression levels, and probably 70% fit in the "normal is too easy, vet is too hard" category. The difficulty spread is oddly tuned to the very opposite ends of the spectrum, away from the majority of the player base. There's a really, really big margin between "pugs with green drops and no build" and "burn squad with 100k+ group dps" It doesn't really solve anything to bump either mode up or down, especially if normal is meant to be scaled to lower levels, you just end up alienating another part of the player base. 3 difficulties would allow the majority to enjoy the content; hardcore players don't get their content nerfed, lowbies/newbies get to actually play the content they paid for, and those in between have something that's possible, but not easy to the point of boredom.

and vet player's get slightly better gear (or at least have better drop chances) than normal mode player's but they have also to accept that hardcore mode player's get better drop chances or titles to clear it on no death's.... oh wait a moment.... i hear a mimimi. ok forget about that. that will basically not work. it would be like.....

Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice.
AvPlayer: No!
Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice!
AvPlayer: No!! Cause i am god and the game is ***.
Hcplayer: SAY IT!!
AvPlayer: Ok, i am an average player and if i would practice more i would be able to do the hardcore mode.
Gamemessage: AvPlayer got "enlightened mindset" title.
HcPlayer: Well done, you did it!

ok but back to serious. In the game League of Legends there were limited skins 2 years ago. Just guess what happened there... And that's the reason why i don't believe that a hardcore/nightmare mode will exist in teso soon.

jakeedmundson

Senaxu wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I support 3 difficulties.

I play this game with a lot of different people of varying skill/progression levels, and probably 70% fit in the "normal is too easy, vet is too hard" category. The difficulty spread is oddly tuned to the very opposite ends of the spectrum, away from the majority of the player base. There's a really, really big margin between "pugs with green drops and no build" and "burn squad with 100k+ group dps" It doesn't really solve anything to bump either mode up or down, especially if normal is meant to be scaled to lower levels, you just end up alienating another part of the player base. 3 difficulties would allow the majority to enjoy the content; hardcore players don't get their content nerfed, lowbies/newbies get to actually play the content they paid for, and those in between have something that's possible, but not easy to the point of boredom.

and vet player's get slightly better gear (or at least have better drop chances) than normal mode player's but they have also to accept that hardcore mode player's get better drop chances or titles to clear it on no death's.... oh wait a moment.... i hear a mimimi. ok forget about that. that will basically not work. it would be like.....

Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice.
AvPlayer: No!
Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice!
AvPlayer: No!! Cause i am god and the game is ***.
Hcplayer: SAY IT!!
AvPlayer: Ok, i am an average player and if i would practice more i would be able to do the hardcore mode.
Gamemessage: AvPlayer got "enlightened mindset" title.
HcPlayer: Well done, you did it!

ok but back to serious. In the game League of Legends there were limited skins 2 years ago. Just guess what happened there... And that's the reason why i don't believe that a hardcore/nightmare mode will exist in teso soon.

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

This might be a really shocking thing for some of you, but did you know that the $60 the "casuals" pay is ACTUALLY the same as the $60 YOU paid? Funny, almost like there's literally nothing objectively stating that you must be given more than they are. Your hours played are actually quite meaningless because no one is making money off your hours played. It's kind of like, you know, we're objectively equals and kinda deserve the same things you get, that you so desperately want to keep locked away from us because you can make a bigger time investment (which, again, means nothing). My money was worth the same as yours and I shouldn't be locked out of content because I only have 6hours to play a week.

You're a better player than I am, and you know what, that's great. Really. I'm envious of how good some people are in this game. And you know what else? You'll be rewarded with the same gear we will be when things are brought in line, you'll complete content with enough speed to get the speed achievements, you'll be able to farm for your sets easier simply because you can complete it more often and with less frustration. You'll get that full v16 set probably 3 months before I do, even with the nerfs. Don't act like you get nothing out of it at all. It sucks that the 99% wants just a taste of the 1% life, but the 99% in this case pays the same amount you do.

And to be clear, I'm not in favor of every nerf we've seen to content. The regular mobs encountered in the zones are a complete joke and I can't imagine that many people were so poor at the game that they couldn't progress. But I'd like to be able to see the more challenging content. Maybe you don't see it as challenging anymore, but we do. It's now just been brought within our reach, not handed to us. To imply that we don't work for the same rewards is the same mentality people like Donald Trump have about the middle and lower classes: that we're lazy and just not trying hard enough. To that, I say simply say *** you. I've still worked on my build and tried things to get better, but I don't have the time to get the top-tier gear, or 400+ CP, and my guildies and I are always theorycrafting with each other, giving advice, and talking about better ways to defeat the mechanics we come across. To say we just need to work harder is ignorant and insulting.

ssewallb14_ESO

Senaxu wrote: »

Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice.
AvPlayer: No!
Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice!
AvPlayer: No!! Cause i am god and the game is ***.
Hcplayer: SAY IT!!
AvPlayer: Ok, i am an average player and if i would practice more i would be able to do the hardcore mode.
Gamemessage: AvPlayer got "enlightened mindset" title.
HcPlayer: Well done, you did it!

^This is complete nonsense. No one playing the middle difficulty would even care whether or not they're the best player, they want to enjoy the content they paid for without dedicating their lives to the game, and without it being a snorefest. This discussion of what constitutes "casual, hardcore, whatever" is pointless and irrelevant, as is the mentality that the content should only be fun for a small portion of the player base.

You understand I'm arguing for a way to keep hard content from being repeatedly nerfed right? The reality is ZoS can't sell niche content, they know that, and that's why they nerf content shortly after release. I'm sure they have data on completion rates of content and are making decisions based off of that. I'm simply offering a way to keep the hardest content from being affected by this.

Petros

There will always be the casual players and the hardcore players, in this game and all other games, you make a Nightmare Mode, the casuals will attempt and say it's too hard and then it will get nerfed. It is either you come prepared or you don't

Ishammael

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.



.

So... should everyone get a gold medal, even though they weren't made Usain Bolt?

code65536

Senaxu wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I support 3 difficulties.

I play this game with a lot of different people of varying skill/progression levels, and probably 70% fit in the "normal is too easy, vet is too hard" category. The difficulty spread is oddly tuned to the very opposite ends of the spectrum, away from the majority of the player base. There's a really, really big margin between "pugs with green drops and no build" and "burn squad with 100k+ group dps" It doesn't really solve anything to bump either mode up or down, especially if normal is meant to be scaled to lower levels, you just end up alienating another part of the player base. 3 difficulties would allow the majority to enjoy the content; hardcore players don't get their content nerfed, lowbies/newbies get to actually play the content they paid for, and those in between have something that's possible, but not easy to the point of boredom.

and vet player's get slightly better gear (or at least have better drop chances) than normal mode player's but they have also to accept that hardcore mode player's get better drop chances or titles to clear it on no death's.... oh wait a moment.... i hear a mimimi. ok forget about that. that will basically not work. it would be like.....

Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice.
AvPlayer: No!
Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice!
AvPlayer: No!! Cause i am god and the game is ***.
Hcplayer: SAY IT!!
AvPlayer: Ok, i am an average player and if i would practice more i would be able to do the hardcore mode.
Gamemessage: AvPlayer got "enlightened mindset" title.
HcPlayer: Well done, you did it!

ok but back to serious. In the game League of Legends there were limited skins 2 years ago. Just guess what happened there... And that's the reason why i don't believe that a hardcore/nightmare mode will exist in teso soon.

You seem to have the mistaken impression that the effort is the currency of the game.

It's not. Time is.

Why do people buy xp scrolls? Because they only have so many hours to play and want to get the most out of it. Why do people loathe the VR15/16 crafting grind? Because they'd rather spend their precious hours playing the game rather than farming for the mats that they need in order to play the game.

I know people who are very good players--good gear, good rotations, have no problems beating Skoria on hard mode--who avoid vWGT and vICP, not because they can't do it, but because the idea of spending hours on mercilessly unforgiving mechanics just isn't their idea of a fun way to spend what few hours they have available.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ishammael wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.



.

So... should everyone get a gold medal, even though they weren't made Usain Bolt?

No. It means that the general level of the competition shouldn't be the Olympics. Saying that people who say "we became good via practice, thus everyone can" is wrong. Players who can't reach the Olympics should not be condemned to run just against their neighbour or their mother-in-law in their backyard. Which is what those dungeons are in normal mode. I think the vet version of those dungeons should be nerfed to "national competition" level instead of Olympics.

And if people really need Olympics levels, let's promote Nifty's idea with "nightmare mode". But remember, the only reward you get at Olympics is glory and decorative medal. No exclusive sportswear that will make you even better and that noone else can get.

Woeler

jakeedmundson wrote: »

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

You are not entitled to clear anything if you are not willing to invest time. I can understand general complaints about something that is actually an issues, but at the moment it's just people blaming the game instead of looking at themselves and thinking "Hmm, maybe I need to play a bit better". But of course people can keep asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, clearing those dungeons is not an achievement anymore.

And after the patch it will be the same over again, people posting that they cannot clear the Veteran Maelstrom with their magicka bow sorcerer vampire. And then it gets nerfed again untill it's not even an achievement anymore to clear it.

The Uninvited

code65536 wrote: »

I know people who are very good players--good gear, good rotations, have no problems beating Skoria on hard mode--who avoid vWGT and vICP, not because they can't do it, but because the idea of spending hours on mercilessly unforgiving mechanics just isn't their idea of a fun way to spend what few hours they have available.

This.

I have run hardmode trials, CoA hardmode and speed challenges of all dungeons with good players. Yet I can't convince them to group up for vICP or vWGT because they don't have the time for it...

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.



.

YOU don't need to the best player of the game to finish the dungeon... don't be rediculous... There is not just one Group who finshed this...

jakeedmundson

Woeler wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

You are not entitled to clear anything if you are not willing to invest time. I can understand general complaints about something that is actually an issues, but at the moment it's just people blaming the game instead of looking at themselves and thinking "Hmm, maybe I need to play a bit better". But of course people can keep asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, clearing those dungeons is not an achievement anymore.

And after the patch it will be the same over again, people posting that they cannot clear the Veteran Maelstrom with their magicka bow sorcerer vampire. And then it gets nerfed again untill it's not even an achievement anymore to clear it.

did you even read my comment?... "willing" has nothing to do with it... having no OPTION to invest time is the problem.
and where did i say each and every person is "entitled" to clear all content?
Here lets do this.... all of the casuals that are screwed into the dead zone between normal and veteran just stop playing... because they are obviously too stupid and lazy (which is hilarious to call someone lazy for not playing a game MORE) to make any progress.... oh wait, they can't do that?? why? ... oh that's right... the game would end. (no cash flow) good luck with that.

fyi... again... since you probably didn't read anything else in this post...
i have never... ever asked for any kind of nerf to any aspect of any game. I just don't understand why some people take offense and get all butt-hurt... "what?? MORE people are going to be able to play MY part of this game?? why would they do that!!"

grow up

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Petros wrote: »

Practice makes perfect, and there is L2Run, specific running techniques can and will improve your running.

Still won't make me a Usain Bolt though.

You don't have to be it... You have to be a medicore runner... IT IS NOT THE WORLDRECORD YOU HAVE TO BRAKE!!! Get over it...

SorataArisugawa

The Uninvited wrote: »

Petros wrote: »

Again, players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on.

No, they want something they can complete because they payed for it.

Imagine this scenario:

More and more content will be made harder in the future because the hardcore players who have the time to learn, adapt and complete are asking for it. Do you think the casuals (and thus the majority) will buy those DLC's?

The answer to that question is a simple NO. So less and less money will be available to ZOS to keep developing the game and it will end pretty soon. Than both the hardcore player and the casual player lose, because the game will no longer exist.

They can complete it. It is not impossible. They pay for the change to complete it, not to get the loot for free. Insane...

SorataArisugawa

The Uninvited wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I know people who are very good players--good gear, good rotations, have no problems beating Skoria on hard mode--who avoid vWGT and vICP, not because they can't do it, but because the idea of spending hours on mercilessly unforgiving mechanics just isn't their idea of a fun way to spend what few hours they have available.

This.

I have run hardmode trials, CoA hardmode and speed challenges of all dungeons with good players. Yet I can't convince them to group up for vICP or vWGT because they don't have the time for it...

Maybe they don't want to show you the dungeon!... Changes your skills maybe...

SorataArisugawa

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

You are not entitled to clear anything if you are not willing to invest time. I can understand general complaints about something that is actually an issues, but at the moment it's just people blaming the game instead of looking at themselves and thinking "Hmm, maybe I need to play a bit better". But of course people can keep asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, clearing those dungeons is not an achievement anymore.

And after the patch it will be the same over again, people posting that they cannot clear the Veteran Maelstrom with their magicka bow sorcerer vampire. And then it gets nerfed again untill it's not even an achievement anymore to clear it.

did you even read my comment?... "willing" has nothing to do with it... having no OPTION to invest time is the problem.
and where did i say each and every person is "entitled" to clear all content?
Here lets do this.... all of the casuals that are screwed into the dead zone between normal and veteran just stop playing... because they are obviously too stupid and lazy (which is hilarious to call someone lazy for not playing a game MORE) to make any progress.... oh wait, they can't do that?? why? ... oh that's right... the game would end. (no cash flow) good luck with that.

fyi... again... since you probably didn't read anything else in this post...
i have never... ever asked for any kind of nerf to any aspect of any game. I just don't understand why some people take offense and get all butt-hurt... "what?? MORE people are going to be able to play MY part of this game?? why would they do that!!"

grow up

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

Its not about more people getting it. I am very happy about everybody who gets the loot with the old system. But its about people who don't know what they are doing and complain about not completing VET WGT. I heard this sooo often already. They can't do 10k DPS, but complain about the game to be sooo hard. 10k is not hard. I do it with VR 14 Gear and 6 Skills. It is not hard... but yeah give everything to the people who don't bother. It's a great choice...

jakeedmundson

1

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

You are not entitled to clear anything if you are not willing to invest time. I can understand general complaints about something that is actually an issues, but at the moment it's just people blaming the game instead of looking at themselves and thinking "Hmm, maybe I need to play a bit better". But of course people can keep asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, clearing those dungeons is not an achievement anymore.

And after the patch it will be the same over again, people posting that they cannot clear the Veteran Maelstrom with their magicka bow sorcerer vampire. And then it gets nerfed again untill it's not even an achievement anymore to clear it.

did you even read my comment?... "willing" has nothing to do with it... having no OPTION to invest time is the problem.
and where did i say each and every person is "entitled" to clear all content?
Here lets do this.... all of the casuals that are screwed into the dead zone between normal and veteran just stop playing... because they are obviously too stupid and lazy (which is hilarious to call someone lazy for not playing a game MORE) to make any progress.... oh wait, they can't do that?? why? ... oh that's right... the game would end. (no cash flow) good luck with that.

fyi... again... since you probably didn't read anything else in this post...
i have never... ever asked for any kind of nerf to any aspect of any game. I just don't understand why some people take offense and get all butt-hurt... "what?? MORE people are going to be able to play MY part of this game?? why would they do that!!"

grow up

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

So because you have more time to play the game, others who don't just have to quit after they reach veteran levels and suffer? Great!

ha and suffer?.... really? making content more suitable for the general population makes you suffer?... you need a hobby....
#firstworldproblems

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

Its not about more people getting it. I am very happy about everybody who gets the loot with the old system. But its about people who don't know what they are doing and complain about not completing VET WGT. I heard this sooo often already. They can't do 10k DPS, but complain about the game to be sooo hard. 10k is not hard. I do it with VR 14 Gear and 6 Skills. It is not hard... but yeah give everything to the people who don't bother. It's a great choice...

Again this logic "if I can do it everybody can"...

So how do you explain that, as a matter of fact, not everybody can ? Because they're all lazy and idiots ? Because they don't have as much time as you ? Or because, in fact, it is not so easy ?

Listen, you and all "elite" players here : if you want a really difficult game, just go play another game. But we don't have all to suffer because you have nothing else to do and want to be the exclusive little snowflake on ESO. We want fun, not hard, especially not too hard, and you have no right to say what's good for us, nor what we deserve or don't deserve. Just leave, all of you, you won't be missed.

I'm willing to compromise, but not with people who aren't ready to compromise on their side.

Stillian

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Again this logic "if I can do it everybody can"...

So how do you explain that, as a matter of fact, not everybody can ? Because they're all lazy and idiots ? Because they don't have as much time as you ? Or because, in fact, it is not so easy ?

Listen, you and all "elite" players here : if you want a really difficult game, just go play another game. But we don't have all to suffer because you have nothing else to do and want to be the exclusive little snowflake on ESO. We want fun, not hard, especially not too hard, and you have no right to say what's good for us, nor what we deserve or don't deserve. Just leave, all of you, you won't be missed.

I'm willing to compromise, but not with people who aren't ready to compromise on their side.

If you cannot spend 10 minutes to read a guide - why would you be able to complete dungeon on veteran mode? Try normal one! Game can be enjoyable for everyone, why should it be enjoyable only for casuals?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Like spending 10 minutes to read a guide is going to make anyone be able to complete vWGT or vICP. Are you kidding me ? Who told you people don't read guides ? Who told you people don't work hard for those dungeons ? It's just that they keep failing, even with a lot of efforts.

The game can be enjoyable for everyone, why should parts of it be enjoyable only by the "elite" ?

(NB : I personally have cleared those dungeons at VR16. I still find them too difficult for the majority of players. I'm not self-centered).

But I shouldn't even be discussing this. It's being nerfed, just great, don't worry and be happy. Whiners will be whiners.

Ellendil

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

Its not about more people getting it. I am very happy about everybody who gets the loot with the old system. But its about people who don't know what they are doing and complain about not completing VET WGT. I heard this sooo often already. They can't do 10k DPS, but complain about the game to be sooo hard. 10k is not hard. I do it with VR 14 Gear and 6 Skills. It is not hard... but yeah give everything to the people who don't bother. It's a great choice...

Again this logic "if I can do it everybody can"...

So how do you explain that, as a matter of fact, not everybody can ? Because they're all lazy and idiots ? Because they don't have as much time as you ? Or because, in fact, it is not so easy ?

Listen, you and all "elite" players here : if you want a really difficult game, just go play another game. But we don't have all to suffer because you have nothing else to do and want to be the exclusive little snowflake on ESO. We want fun, not hard, especially not too hard, and you have no right to say what's good for us, nor what we deserve or don't deserve. Just leave, all of you, you won't be missed.

I'm willing to compromise, but not with people who aren't ready to compromise on their side.

I realy dont get what problem do you have?? Some Players just want a game wich is a little bit more challenging and for a fact the game is and was challenging until the point some Players are complaining about how difficult everything is and then its getting nerved again. Now some Players ask for a Solution which is the nightmare mode and these Players dont want that nightmare mode to get even better equip they just asked for some cosmetic stuff.

Pls grow up guys

Stillian

Reading a guide will make you a proper (or close to it) character, which will help a lot to complete those dungeons on any dificulty.

SorataArisugawa

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

We're just talking in circles here....
its not about willingness to "practice"... people don't have that kind of time... that's it. It's like trying to fill a 1 liter bottle with 2 liters.... it wont' happen.
if you have 6 hours a day to put towards this game... good for you. most of us do not.
btw... these changes are already happening. deal with it... you can complain all you want but the majority will ultimately win.

You are not entitled to clear anything if you are not willing to invest time. I can understand general complaints about something that is actually an issues, but at the moment it's just people blaming the game instead of looking at themselves and thinking "Hmm, maybe I need to play a bit better". But of course people can keep asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, clearing those dungeons is not an achievement anymore.

And after the patch it will be the same over again, people posting that they cannot clear the Veteran Maelstrom with their magicka bow sorcerer vampire. And then it gets nerfed again untill it's not even an achievement anymore to clear it.

did you even read my comment?... "willing" has nothing to do with it... having no OPTION to invest time is the problem.
and where did i say each and every person is "entitled" to clear all content?
Here lets do this.... all of the casuals that are screwed into the dead zone between normal and veteran just stop playing... because they are obviously too stupid and lazy (which is hilarious to call someone lazy for not playing a game MORE) to make any progress.... oh wait, they can't do that?? why? ... oh that's right... the game would end. (no cash flow) good luck with that.

fyi... again... since you probably didn't read anything else in this post...
i have never... ever asked for any kind of nerf to any aspect of any game. I just don't understand why some people take offense and get all butt-hurt... "what?? MORE people are going to be able to play MY part of this game?? why would they do that!!"

grow up

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

So because you have more time to play the game, others who don't just have to quit after they reach veteran levels and suffer? Great!

ha and suffer?.... really? making content more suitable for the general population makes you suffer?... you need a hobby....
#firstworldproblems

Nice twisting. Its not about more people get the loot. Its about nerfing it, that people can't do the basics. And it is not to hard to do that.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Stillian wrote: »

Reading a guide will make you a proper (or close to it) character, which will help a lot to complete those dungeons on any dificulty.

I geared my stamplar DPS according to @Alcast 's stamplar build exactly (The "Jabsmania" build). Trained the rotation. Still don't come up with even 70% of his DPS.
It's not all about copy/pasting. There are many other factors that require initial talent and hours of training.
If at least silly techniques like animation canceling were not required, it would help. But they are there and they take an awful long time to get used to.

Same with my magicka sorc DPS. Typical same 100% cookie-cutter build everyone's running at endgame. I reach decent DPS (13-17K) but I can't reach the 20-25K some people obviously manage to reach.

Stop telling people to "work". It's a game. It should be FUN.
And stop thinking that because you can, anybody can.

It's being nerfed anyway, so it's fine.

And talking about guides, I'm getting really tired of forced cookie cutter copy pasted builds. I want to try different combinations, have fun with it and still be able to beat content. That means the content should not require super-optimized builds with zero diversity.

OmniDevil

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

Its not about more people getting it. I am very happy about everybody who gets the loot with the old system. But its about people who don't know what they are doing and complain about not completing VET WGT. I heard this sooo often already. They can't do 10k DPS, but complain about the game to be sooo hard. 10k is not hard. I do it with VR 14 Gear and 6 Skills. It is not hard... but yeah give everything to the people who don't bother. It's a great choice...

You assume that the people who can't complete it aren't taking the time or taking the steps you claim is all you need to complete vWGT or vICP. While I can certainly say this will be true for a decent portion, it would do you a lot of good to understand that you can't say this is true on a general or vast majority level.

95% of my guild members all come from long histories of MMO games, most of which pride themselves in being part of past guilds in those games that were part of a very small demographic of being able to clear hardmode content. In ESO, we use the same methods to prepare and, as you loosely put it, "practice" that we would in other MMOs. We read strategies, we watch videos posted by different people just to make sure we understand fights from different perspectives or points of view. We help each other out with getting crafted gear to help us step up to the next rung of the ladder to give us that edge. We're not running Heavy Armor stamina or magicka builds. We've done our research on what enchants work best and how to achieve the best mitigation, dps, healing, etc. possible without having the latest and greatest v16 Dungeon Gear. When we realize our health is too low, we adjust our builds to give us more so we're not running pure glass cannon builds without sacrificing more dps, mitigation, healing than necessary.

We can beat vCoA, vCoH or any of the other non-IC 4-man dungeons, but when it comes to vICP or vWGT, there seems to be a drastic margin of difficulty difference and is significantly less forgiving with a potential reward controlled by terribad RNG. Oh, but wait, the reward is the satisfaction that we achieved something, right? Apples to Oranges. Different strokes for different folks. There are those that would rather the continued stroking of their ePeen, but there are also those who would appreciate a different reward for the effort they put in.

Not one single person in this game can say they're more entitled to anything. It doesn't matter if JoeShmo put in XYZ Effort and Time or if BillyBob has less time and paid ABC Money.

In the end, a large portion of the ESO player base haven't completed vICP/vWGT. It's not because they're lazy, selfish, haven't practiced, put in the time/effort. The dungeons difficulty need to be tuned to allow them to still be challenging, yet still be completed by more than the 1% Elite Club. I hope you get your "Nightmare" mode. It's definitely something I would love to see, but this will be a losing battle for you if you think that dungeons, present/future, will never get "nerfed" to accommodate larger demographics.

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

So because you don't have the time or have not the possiblity to play the game, others who like to play the game have to suffer? Great!

It takes 2 hours maximal, to understand your class. If you don't have time for this, there is no help anyway.

Its not about more people getting it. I am very happy about everybody who gets the loot with the old system. But its about people who don't know what they are doing and complain about not completing VET WGT. I heard this sooo often already. They can't do 10k DPS, but complain about the game to be sooo hard. 10k is not hard. I do it with VR 14 Gear and 6 Skills. It is not hard... but yeah give everything to the people who don't bother. It's a great choice...

Again this logic "if I can do it everybody can"...

So how do you explain that, as a matter of fact, not everybody can ? Because they're all lazy and idiots ? Because they don't have as much time as you ? Or because, in fact, it is not so easy ?

Listen, you and all "elite" players here : if you want a really difficult game, just go play another game. But we don't have all to suffer because you have nothing else to do and want to be the exclusive little snowflake on ESO. We want fun, not hard, especially not too hard, and you have no right to say what's good for us, nor what we deserve or don't deserve. Just leave, all of you, you won't be missed.

I'm willing to compromise, but not with people who aren't ready to compromise on their side.

If it was about a difficulty like breaking the world record, your "Jusain Bolt" would be true. But, its not remotly close to the world record. It's not that hard to obtain the performace of the vet wgt or prison.

Furthermore you don't have to do that dungeons to get your VR16 gear. There is a variaty of things were you get the gear. And there is a lot of other cool stuff to do in the game without obtaining gear as well. But the people who like hard dungeons won't get any comparison for this. They lose their main reason to play: nice challenging group content...

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Furthermore you don't have to do that dungeons to get your VR16 gear. There is a variaty of things were you get the gear. And there is a lot of other cool stuff to do in the game without obtaining gear as well. But the people who like hard dungeons won't get any comparison for this. They lose their main reason to play: nice challenging group content...

... and you'd all go ... ?????

Joke apart, tell me where to get my overwhelming surge set in VR16 if not in those 2 dungeons...

Dymence

code65536 wrote: »

Senaxu wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I support 3 difficulties.

I play this game with a lot of different people of varying skill/progression levels, and probably 70% fit in the "normal is too easy, vet is too hard" category. The difficulty spread is oddly tuned to the very opposite ends of the spectrum, away from the majority of the player base. There's a really, really big margin between "pugs with green drops and no build" and "burn squad with 100k+ group dps" It doesn't really solve anything to bump either mode up or down, especially if normal is meant to be scaled to lower levels, you just end up alienating another part of the player base. 3 difficulties would allow the majority to enjoy the content; hardcore players don't get their content nerfed, lowbies/newbies get to actually play the content they paid for, and those in between have something that's possible, but not easy to the point of boredom.

and vet player's get slightly better gear (or at least have better drop chances) than normal mode player's but they have also to accept that hardcore mode player's get better drop chances or titles to clear it on no death's.... oh wait a moment.... i hear a mimimi. ok forget about that. that will basically not work. it would be like.....

Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice.
AvPlayer: No!
Hcplayer: Say that you are an average player and you have to practice!
AvPlayer: No!! Cause i am god and the game is ***.
Hcplayer: SAY IT!!
AvPlayer: Ok, i am an average player and if i would practice more i would be able to do the hardcore mode.
Gamemessage: AvPlayer got "enlightened mindset" title.
HcPlayer: Well done, you did it!

ok but back to serious. In the game League of Legends there were limited skins 2 years ago. Just guess what happened there... And that's the reason why i don't believe that a hardcore/nightmare mode will exist in teso soon.

You seem to have the mistaken impression that the effort is the currency of the game.

It's not. Time is.

Why do people buy xp scrolls? Because they only have so many hours to play and want to get the most out of it. Why do people loathe the VR15/16 crafting grind? Because they'd rather spend their precious hours playing the game rather than farming for the mats that they need in order to play the game.

I know people who are very good players--good gear, good rotations, have no problems beating Skoria on hard mode--who avoid vWGT and vICP, not because they can't do it, but because the idea of spending hours on mercilessly unforgiving mechanics just isn't their idea of a fun way to spend what few hours they have available.

I know enough people who have invested a lot of time but haven't improved at all. Talent and understanding is also important.

I wonder, what your definition of me would be if you call people who clear Skoria hard mode but avoid vWGT and vICP 'very good players with good gear and good rotations'. An amazing very super good player?

Clearing skoria on hard mode is hardly a feat worth nothing these days. The only interesting part about that fight is whether you can kill him on the first platform or not.

I don't understand why everyone is calling practice and effort 'work' and claiming games are not about work but about fun. Don't you enjoy improving yourself as a player? If this is work for you, maybe games are not for you?

When I find something hard, in whatever game, I stop and think what I can change, improve, think about tactics etc.

But it seems that the tactics of these days are to go on the forum and spend your time complaining about how hard it is until it gets nerfed, rather than spending this time on the game itself.

Stillian

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Furthermore you don't have to do that dungeons to get your VR16 gear. There is a variaty of things were you get the gear. And there is a lot of other cool stuff to do in the game without obtaining gear as well. But the people who like hard dungeons won't get any comparison for this. They lose their main reason to play: nice challenging group content...

... and you'd all go ... ?????

Joke apart, tell me where to get my overwhelming surge set in VR16 if not in those 2 dungeons...

Get it v15. You dont want super-optimized build, right?