FFS ZOS... AGAIN PTS PATCH NOTES!

anitajoneb17_ESO

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Either you are proud you did it or not, you decide lol...

Lol, How come that (most) "elite people" consider that a content is not worth playing if it is not linked to recognition by others, leaderboards and exclusive rewards ? Obviously "self-recognition" is not enough (but that's human).

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

The Minority of players is coming to this forum so don't worry, most players won't see "this player" you centered this post around, saying he easily beat hard mode. he practiced a lot and knows his character in and out. In case someone sees it, I'm sure he won't" feel bad " because of that. There is always a handful people better than yourself, that's what I think..

My posts here are not centered around this player, it's centered around "typical elite mentality", and the disgusting attitude that goes with it, the condescendance, crushing others, bragging, superiority, know-it-all and "L2P" syndroms, because their ego needs constant and endless feeding from the game. Admittedly not all of them are in the same boat but many are.

player_klaus

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Elite's superiority complex at its best.
(*vomits*)

(Really, just go. We can live very well without you. But I doubt you know it).

dear anitajoneb17_ESO,

pls dont twist reality... truth is: i can live without you -but you cant without me.

jokes aside,
i now that objektivism is a very toxic ideology. but your "we are more" made me hold a mirror in your face.
everybody needs a challenge to develope. and while you have a whole world of challenges and opportunities to get better -we dont.

Drearvoyage

From reading this thread I think a potential issue is that the console version was released awhile after the pc. Some pc players have invested a lot of time and effort so they deserve their CPs, gear and skill. A lot of console players are catching up but I'm way off the future CP cap and my motivation to farm v16 mats is lacking. Should I be able to complete the IC vet dungeons? Probably not, I need to improve my character so I can tank these dungeons and practice with my group. However, this content was released at a similar time to pc and console players so a large proportion of console players can't do the content yet but some pc players don't have an issue. Expecting us all to be at the same point in the game and being able to complete all the content at the same time isn't going to happen for awhile.

anitajoneb17_ESO

player_klaus wrote: »

pls dont twist reality... truth is: i can live without you -but you cant without me.

jokes aside,
i now that objektivism is a very toxic ideology. but your "we are more" made me hold a mirror in your face.
everybody needs a challenge to develope. and while you have a whole world of challenges and opportunities to get better -we dont.

So you need ESO to make very hard content to get challenged to "develop" yourself. That doesn't mean that ESO needs you, that means that you need to move on to another game.

There we agree ;-)

Half-joke aside too : look at things. Every very hard content in the game has been beaten by you elite players LONG BEFORE any nerfs. Why do you care if it's nerfed ? It's already not challenging anymore for you, long before the nerf. I saw videos of highly skilled groups burning down the planar inhibitor one week after release, that means long before any nerf. It's already easy for you.

I kind of understand your hunger for very hard content, but not-nerfing the current dungeons will not change that because they're already easy for you. I think the truth is that this content being nerfed makes it more accessible to less skilled players and that takes "glory" away from you, and that's what you don't like. But that's the rule of MMOs I guess : game changes, rules change, results don't last, achievement values change.

Vet Maelstrom Arena is just around the corner and as it looks, elite players will have their share of challenge in there. It will be too hard for me, but I don't mind, I can wait a couple of weeks/months for it to be nerfed, while you enjoy the hard difficulty. By the time it's nerfed, you'll have beaten it, made it "easy" for you, and you'll have new stuff (probably a new trial with the next DLC) and there you have your challenging content again.
So what on earth is wrong with VWGT and VICP being nerfed, in your position ?

Remember, I'm not against very hard stuff dedicated to very good players (even though I don't believe that helps ZOS making the game better). I'm simply against difficulty-gated loot and set items.
And I support Nifty's concept of "nightmare" level.

As to the "we are more", well, that's a fact. There are game studios who develop very hard games for very good players and challenge lovers on a "niche market segment", and they succeed very well. It just happens that ZOS isn't one of them and their business model is not centered around elite players.

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

player_klaus wrote: »

dont be scared "causuals"

for a 3/4-burn you only need ~14k dps. the fight will last 1:30. 0:30 are required for the so called "mechanics".

YOU CAN DO IT ...IF YOU TRY

but reading this "we are more" bs makes me kind of angry. because you are NOTHING without us and YOU KNOW IT.

imagine all theorycrafters, build-developers, progress oriented and learn-willing players go on strike.
no builds for you, no help with gearing up, maxxig out your toons, no metrix, no stream and youtube and noone carriyng you and the "play as you want'lers" through the content.

have fun wiping in silver pledges with your bow-dk healers and gimp-blades spamming acid-spray 30m away from the group.

we will watch.

and when you cant complete a single silver pledge in half a year, you will surrender to our only wish:

let us have challenging content.

Elite's superiority complex at its best.
(*vomits*)

(Really, just go. We can live very well without you. But I doubt you know it).

Yeah you can live without "us". The "life" will be so: The game will be so easy, that even you will fall asleep during the dungeon. But well, you will just go one, because after this, you have your full gear. You complete the ne DLCs and Updates in 2 Days and cry, why is ther no new content. And then, you leaf and destroy a other game. Nice one!

Dracane

Always these pve nerfes.....
I remember when the game started, it was a REAL challenge. Yea sure, we were unexperienced either.
But the difficulty was much higher and it was so much fun.

Look how the game is nowadays. Everything is so tireing and easy, I could solo everything.
I miss the good old days. But all the crying of uncapable people who are too lazy to accept a challenge, totally destroyed the pve aspect of the game. I should write a song 'Dear former self'

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

[..]

Same applies in the game. While I unfortunately don't have reliable statistics for it, I'm ready to bet that less or far less than 30% of players have completed CoA in veteran hard mode. So beating Valkyn Skoria in hard mode makes you de facto a good player. You think that it means nothing because you see through your "elite" eyes in your small elite world where everyone can beat it easily and it means nothing anymore. Someone who can run 100m in less than 12 seconds is a noone in Usain Bolt's eyes but is nonetheless a very good runner.

There is your mistak again. Beating COA hard mode makes you a dedicated dungeon player. You don't get the information, if anybody is a good player (fast learning, high movment, good understanding of your build and other builds). It showes just, if you are persistent. You just want to play the game, how it is now. Spare us this "the normal player is to bad for this". It is nonsense in relation to the difficulty of the dungeons.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Regardless of this distorted reality, your tone was also wrong. If someone talks to you and says "see, I've achieved this, that makes me proud of myself", there's some qualities called "kindness" and "diplomacy" which, if you had them, would make you say : "hey, way to go boy ! nice job ! now next step... " instead of "what ? this ? nothing to be proud about, you're still a nobody".

If you open this field: your tone is also "wrong". You want to be respected after you demand unnessessary nerfs... This is the problem why you won't get any credit form the "better" players. As long you want the easy mode, you have to deal with this "attitude"...

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

[..]
There is your mistak again. Beating COA hard mode makes you a dedicated dungeon player. You don't get the information, if anybody is a good player (fast learning, high movment, good understanding of your build and other builds). It showes just, if you are persistent. You just want to play the game, how it is now. Spare us this "the normal player is to bad for this". It is nonsense in refelation to the difficulty of the dungeons.
.../...
If you open this field: your tone is also "wrong". You want to be respected after you demand unnessessary nerfs... This is the problem why you won't get any credit form the "better" players. As long you want the easy mode, you have to deal with this "attitude"...

I'm not sure your obvious lack of mastery of the english language allows you to get into rhetorical questions such as the difference between "good" and "dedicated", or "credit" and "respect". I don't ask for credit, but for respect.
But your answer is clear : "we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't play as well we do and doesn't set this goal for himself".

Point proven, thank you.

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Elite's superiority complex at its best.
(*vomits*)

(Really, just go. We can live very well without you. But I doubt you know it).

Yeah you can live without "us". The "life" will be so: The game will be so easy, that even you will fall asleep during the dungeon. But well, you will just go one, because after this, you have your full gear. You complete the ne DLCs and Updates in 2 Days and cry, why is ther no new content. And then, you leaf and destroy a other game. Nice one!

Well your crystal ball is obviously as broken as your spell checker, because I never cried for new content (I'm happy when it comes though) and from what I've seen of Orsinium on PTS I can play three months there happily without even running a single dungeon.

Unlike you "elite players" who keep crying for new trials, new dungeons, new objectives for IC, new, new, new. It's you who are eating content at the speed of light and claim it's outdated, not us.

Dymence

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@Stillian : nice try but you did not answer my question. I want diversified builds, not s*** gear.

Dymence wrote: »

Clearing skoria on hard mode is hardly a feat worth nothing these days. The only interesting part about that fight is whether you can kill him on the first platform or not.

^This.
This is exactly the kind of comment which make most other players dislike you, so-called "elite". That is JUST SO CONDESCENDING to the point it is unbearable and hard to understand, too. You're always bragging all over the place how easy everything is (especially anything that anyone has cleared after you).

Can't someone just be happy and proud and feel good for having beaten Skoria ? No, you absolutely MUST bring that person down by saying it means nothing.

Believe it or not, it means something to A LOT of players. Re-connect with reality. And with a little bit a respect, too, if possible.

What is so condescending about stating the facts? Honestly?

Previous poster stated 'very good players' who were able to kill skoria on hard mode. But that doesn't make you a very good player. It's just like saying someone owns 1000$ is a very rich person, but he's not, when you consider there are people with millions.

Facts are just that, facts. It only becomes condescending once you interpret it as such. If a person cannot accept the reality that bringing down skoria in hard mode is nothing special anymore, then it is not I who is at fault. Never did I say someone cannot be happy and proud and feel good about beating skoria on hard mode. Good for him if it makes him happy.

Reality is reality though, no matter how hard you try to deny it. If anyone should re-connect with reality, that would be you in this case.

These are not facts, these are just perspectives, and you give me the BEST possible example for explaining it.

Someone who has 1000 dollars on cash isn't a rich person in the eyes of richer people like you and me (yes, owning a computer and spending time on a video game makes us rich, de facto), or in the eyes of very rich people like Hollywood stars or whatever.
But 1000 dollars on cash is nonetheless a fortune in a world where 80% of the population lives on less than 10 dollars a day (the lowest 20% being on less than 1 dollar a day). That's the REALITY and your vision is typically distorted due to being self-centered. You are disconnected from that reality.

Same applies in the game. While I unfortunately don't have reliable statistics for it, I'm ready to bet that less or far less than 30% of players have completed CoA in veteran hard mode. So beating Valkyn Skoria in hard mode makes you de facto a good player. You think that it means nothing because you see through your "elite" eyes in your small elite world where everyone can beat it easily and it means nothing anymore. Someone who can run 100m in less than 12 seconds is a noone in Usain Bolt's eyes but is nonetheless a very good runner.

Regardless of this distorted reality, your tone was also wrong. If someone talks to you and says "see, I've achieved this, that makes me proud of myself", there's some qualities called "kindness" and "diplomacy" which, if you had them, would make you say : "hey, way to go boy ! nice job ! now next step... " instead of "what ? this ? nothing to be proud about, you're still a nobody".

Someone having 1000 dollars on cash not being a rich person is a perspective?

Indeed, a perspective of someone who doesn't accept/understand the entire reality.

Thank you for proving my point.

As for tone, I am not so socially out of touch that I would belittle someone for being happy with his achievement, regardless if it is worth noting or not. That wasn't the context here, though. It was a discussion with arguments using reference points as examples. In this case the reference point being: you can beat skoria hard mode thus you are a good player - which I said is false because looking at the big picture, it is meaningless.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

Someone having 1000 dollars on cash not being a rich person is a perspective?

Yes. And I explained why. With facts. You choose to disregard it : your problem.

Senaxu

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Well Skoria was hard. But CP System got introduced, so it's logical it's not as hard as it used to be anymore, this got nothing to do with "elite thinking" therefore, I guess. More and more people will do this easily, because at some point it just can't be a challenge anymore, well not like on Release.

CP only make a difference for those who have them.
Remember average CP is around 93 on PC (maybe slightly higher now, that was a few weeks ago).

Who deserves to be proud ? The player who completes it with 100CP or the one who burns it down thanks to 600+ CP and pretends it means nothing, and assumes that because it's easy for him, it's also easy for everyone ?

Hm, i dont where i should start here. There will be a catchup system soon and players should reach the cap if they have some time to play. then, if the CP lvl is equal to other players, there are some other differences like: Ping, skill, mindset, knowledge.

People that are new in the game(started to play the last 6 months) 70% i guess cause of the 93CP average value, have less knowledge in the game then others and its really hard for them to clear vet dungeons except they spent few hours to inform about good builds for there classes.

For the casual player, who plays 10h-15h (guess 20-25%) a week but since the release. well if you don't made a long break you should have around 300-400 CP if you just manage to get all the enlightened points. this players are veterans and should be able to clear the veteran mod if you play a little bit focused and its still a challenge for them specially if you have not that amount of time for a clearrun.

For elite players, who plays 15h+/week (maybe 10% max) since the release you should be over the 501 cap already. For them veteran modes are a joke and with the best build for the class, good animation canceling and huge knowledge about the game, how could it be otherwise... For this players a Hardcore/nightmare mode would make sense.

Some of those players want to play there own style. Healstuff cause the attackanimation is nice and on stamina cause a big green bar looks nice.... well you get the point. its simply not possible to clear a vet dungeon with this.. its not possible to balance all this. some builds are more effective than others and if you want to be able to clear vet or (maybe soon) hardcore mode you need to change something that you are able to do this. And its up to you if you wipe throw the whole dungeon for 3-4h, cause you still want to play your style and don't want to waste time about get a good build for your class what would take at least 1-2h to get a huge improvement and clear the dungeon in less then 1h what would be really nice specially for casual players who have less time to do clear dungeons.

But yes. If you want to play your own style in PvE you have to accept the fact that you will be less effective and the probability will be lower for a clearrun, achievements and fun.

Dymence

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Someone having 1000 dollars on cash not being a rich person is a perspective?

Yes. And I explained why. With facts. You choose to disregard it : your problem.

If you acknowledge the actual facts, which is the fact that there are people with thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, millions etc. of dollars out there, then you with a meager 1000 dollar are nothing in the grand scale. You are just less 'poor' than the rest.

Where a person grows up and how much money they have to manage with every day is absolutely meaningless in this regard, when you look at the bigger picture.

Perhaps it is my problem that I choose to disregard your subjective opinion (read: NOT FACTS) on the matter, as your rose colored image of reality seems to make life a lot easier. That's not how it works, though.

The same goes for the game.

G0ku

Fruitless discussion. I gave up on ZOS changing anything about that matter after they nerfed DSA. Some people who started back then even pity now that they will never be able to experience the original version. I don´t think they nerf stuff because of some forum complainers but because their numbers are showing them that far less people than they assumed where able to complete it.

The loot out of these dungeons generates the cries for nerfs. If they would hand out vault trophies and set parts VR16 in normal mode the vast majority of the playerbase wouldn´t even try the veteran version. They just can´t deal with the fact their gear is only VR15.

I am in between the two factions of players hardcore/casuals. We cleared both hardmodes, and ICP was indeed hard for us. But we are a coordinated group of 4 people in teamspeak. Now just try once to go to your local undaunted camp and grab 3 other players from zonechat and then see if you can complete it. And, although this is my very first MMO, I think this is the concept of such a game: grab other unknown people and experience the game with them and make eventually good friends. For such groups completing these is near to impossible. And that´s why they nerf it.

They should just prevent skipping mechanics by dps. Hell they should even add in a damage / resistance multiplicator for mobs or sth if a group exceeds a certain amount of dps. 40k dps by a single player -> doubled amount of resistance of boss at 50% HP.

They should find a way to cater the needs of dps monsters without provoking envy in other players... But they will continue with their cycle of releasing hard content and nerfing it continually further down the road.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Someone having 1000 dollars on cash not being a rich person is a perspective?

Yes. And I explained why. With facts. You choose to disregard it : your problem.

If you acknowledge the actual facts, which is the fact that there are people with thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, millions etc. of dollars out there, then you with a meager 1000 dollar are nothing in the grand scale. You are just less 'poor' than the rest.

Where a person grows up and how much money they have to manage with every day is absolutely meaningless in this regard, when you look at the bigger picture.

Perhaps it is my problem that I choose to disregard your subjective opinion (read: NOT FACTS) on the matter, as your rose colored image of reality seems to make life a lot easier. That's not how it works, though.

The same goes for the game.

You can try and call a minority YOUR standard if you wish so but that won't make it THE standard. People who own million of dollars are a very tiny minority and that's a fact. Standards are defined by statistical averages and medians, not by your perception.
Applied to the game, you can call the 5-10% "elite" or "good players" the standard and call the 90% remaining just "more or less bad players", and twist stuff and facts to your liking as much as you want, that won't change the fact that the game will not ever be balanced around 5-10% of its users no matter how you'd like to call it a standard. That's how it works.
And a player that can achieve something that 70% of other players cannot is a good player. You can call him a "less bad player" if you prefer, but it's pointless.

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

[..]
There is your mistak again. Beating COA hard mode makes you a dedicated dungeon player. You don't get the information, if anybody is a good player (fast learning, high movment, good understanding of your build and other builds). It showes just, if you are persistent. You just want to play the game, how it is now. Spare us this "the normal player is to bad for this". It is nonsense in refelation to the difficulty of the dungeons.
.../...
If you open this field: your tone is also "wrong". You want to be respected after you demand unnessessary nerfs... This is the problem why you won't get any credit form the "better" players. As long you want the easy mode, you have to deal with this "attitude"...

I'm not sure your obvious lack of mastery of the english language allows you to get into rhetorical questions such as the difference between "good" and "dedicated", or "credit" and "respect". I don't ask for credit, but for respect.
But your answer is clear : "we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't play as well we do and doesn't set this goal for himself".

Point proven, thank you.

The fact, that I don't know how to write as good as a native speaker, has nothing to do with my logical understanding. You won't get any of the respect or credit (which is methoporical the same here, because you want to get a bit of respect from others, even if they don't know what you achieved). And as long as you will just slam the door again and again, nobody will give you the credit or the respect. You achievement of defeating Valkyn Scoria is no achievment any more. It is easy. It is easy because of people wanted nerfs instead of increasing their knowledge and playstyle. Thats what you get from "us" for crying for nerfs. You think we should go away, because our fun is now gone, so know you could be the king of the hill? No way, sorry dear...

And maybe you try to understand what the others and I already saied several times:
"we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't play as well we do and doesn't set this goal for himself" is wrong. What we say is: "we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't want to beat the game as it is (not to hard by the way; no Jusain Bolt to beat), but instead cry for nerfs" Yeah this it what we say. You didn't get the "Point" anyway (be careful: ambiguous!)

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Elite's superiority complex at its best.
(*vomits*)

(Really, just go. We can live very well without you. But I doubt you know it).

Yeah you can live without "us". The "life" will be so: The game will be so easy, that even you will fall asleep during the dungeon. But well, you will just go one, because after this, you have your full gear. You complete the ne DLCs and Updates in 2 Days and cry, why is ther no new content. And then, you leaf and destroy a other game. Nice one!

Well your crystal ball is obviously as broken as your spell checker, because I never cried for new content (I'm happy when it comes though) and from what I've seen of Orsinium on PTS I can play three months there happily without even running a single dungeon.

Unlike you "elite players" who keep crying for new trials, new dungeons, new objectives for IC, new, new, new. It's you who are eating content at the speed of light and claim it's outdated, not us.

Nice, if you don't have anything to add about my language, we could continue with you poor argumentation, okay? Alright. Lets start:

Yeah call it new content, or new gear(VR16 in your case, because VR14 is not enough for the perfect sense of your alt). You want new things as well. And the best things of course. Because you deserve them in your opinion. You don't allow others to question, if you deserve them. Well that is a point of few at least...

If you could wait 3 months without visiting a single dungeon, tell me why do you demand easier dungeons now, after 2 months? Don't tell me PVP is nothing for you... we would like the play the content for serveral month, but after 2 weeks it gets nerfed and after 2 month again. The content is boring because of the nerfs. So we have ask for new. And we are the source of the problem of course... nice one!

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Yeah call it new content, or new gear(VR16 in your case, because VR14 is not enough for the perfect sense of your alt). You want new things as well.

If you could wait 3 months without visiting a single dungeon, tell me why do you demand easier dungeons now after 2 months of the first DLC? Don't tell me PVP is nothing for you...

- I don't PvP.
- I don't "want new things" but I want access to them when there are in the game, I refuse difficulty-gated items.
- I didn't "demand" nerfs, I approve of them when they come.
- I approve of them because I feel for the people who actually cannot do them because they're too hard for them. Yeah, empathy, you know...(oh wait, no, you don't).
- And I also approve of them because I see that the gap between players is tearing entire guilds apart. Because we cannot play the new content together due to it being too hard for some members, it splits guilds and groups and friends. We're here to play together, and we can't, and guilds are fragilized in their identity due to this gap. Guilds are the core system of this game and I want this game to last.
- And I loathe competition.

jakeedmundson

1

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Yeah call it new content, or new gear(VR16 in your case, because VR14 is not enough for the perfect sense of your alt). You want new things as well.

If you could wait 3 months without visiting a single dungeon, tell me why do you demand easier dungeons now after 2 months of the first DLC? Don't tell me PVP is nothing for you...

- I don't PvP.
- I didn't "demand" nerfs, I approve of them when they come.
- I approve of them because I feel for the people who actually cannot do them because they're too hard for them. Yeah, empathy, you know...
- And I also approve of them because I see that the gap between players is tearing entire guilds apart. Because we cannot play the new content together due to it being too hard for some members, it splits guilds and groups and friends. We're here to play together, and we can't, and guilds are fragilized in their identity due to this gap. Guilds are the core system of this game and I want this game to last.
- And I loathe competition.

Got a point there... i was in the #2 of a guild .. both were maxed at 500 players each. Last week the #2 died and active members switched to the #1 section... there are only 220 members in that one now... guilds are definitely on a down slope. (major trading guilds and raid guilds anyway)
As a tank... i can't find a group sometimes for over an hour. (from guild members to group finder to fishing for groups in the undaunted area) says a little bit about the number of active players.

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

You won't get any of the respect or credit (which is methoporical the same here, because you want to get a bit of respect from others, even if they don't know what you achieved).

Sorry Sir but methoporically (?), metaphorically, or whatever, you should learn some vocabulary, because respect and credit are two different things entirely, and respect is something that is due to *everyone* regardless of any achievement (unlike credit).

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

"we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't play as well we do and doesn't set this goal for himself" is wrong. What we say is: "we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't want to beat the game as it is"

You realize that the two sentences mean exactly the same, I hope ?
And, by the way, you're not entitled to despise anyone, actually.

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Someone having 1000 dollars on cash not being a rich person is a perspective?

Yes. And I explained why. With facts. You choose to disregard it : your problem.

If you acknowledge the actual facts, which is the fact that there are people with thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, millions etc. of dollars out there, then you with a meager 1000 dollar are nothing in the grand scale. You are just less 'poor' than the rest.

Where a person grows up and how much money they have to manage with every day is absolutely meaningless in this regard, when you look at the bigger picture.

Perhaps it is my problem that I choose to disregard your subjective opinion (read: NOT FACTS) on the matter, as your rose colored image of reality seems to make life a lot easier. That's not how it works, though.

The same goes for the game.

You can try and call a minority YOUR standard if you wish so but that won't make it THE standard. People who own million of dollars are a very tiny minority and that's a fact. Standards are defined by statistical averages and medians, not by your perception.
Applied to the game, you can call the 5-10% "elite" or "good players" the standard and call the 90% remaining just "more or less bad players", and twist stuff and facts to your liking as much as you want, that won't change the fact that the game will not ever be balanced around 5-10% of its users no matter how you'd like to call it a standard. That's how it works.
And a player that can achieve something that 70% of other players cannot is a good player. You can call him a "less bad player" if you prefer, but it's pointless.

All your examples are very poorly. It is not about the money you make, or the gold you have in game. It not about different countries where you start with different parents and a different wealth. Everybody starts this game with the same set of possibilities. You can understand your charakter perfect, you could get the same itemes as all the others. You could achieve everthing like the others. But you and others deside not to, in several cases. Its okay. I don't want to do everything in this game as well. The problem starts, when you want the same as the others, who did the dungeons, but don't want to do the same for it. Zenimax will get you the drops sooner or later with nerfs. We have to live with that sadly. But as long you don't change your attitude, you wont get the respect. This game doesn't demand hard work form you. Just a little dedication. But you neglet that. Instead of this you behave your self here unreasonable. If you would focus your power away from bad examples to the completion of the dungeons, you would already be equiped with the best in slot gear...

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Everybody starts this game with the same set of possibilities.

Yeah, like having 10 hours a day to play versus 10 hours a week. Same set of possibilities... (LOL).

eliisra

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Well Skoria was hard. But CP System got introduced, so it's logical it's not as hard as it used to be anymore, this got nothing to do with "elite thinking" therefore, I guess. More and more people will do this easily, because at some point it just can't be a challenge anymore, well not like on Release.

But both vCoH and VCoA was semi-casual friendly when released. Or like 25% population doable. Normal guild groups could complete and better pugs. I remember completing vCoA and Skoria with my PvP scrub buddies and a light armor tank, some week after it came out. We watched a crappy beta video and just winged it somehow.

The higher difficulty of vICP is a new thing, not at all consistent with earlier VR dungeons. I'm not sure VR dungeons where ever intended for top players only. But who knows, maybe ZOS wanted to see how it played out.

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Yeah call it new content, or new gear(VR16 in your case, because VR14 is not enough for the perfect sense of your alt). You want new things as well.

If you could wait 3 months without visiting a single dungeon, tell me why do you demand easier dungeons now after 2 months of the first DLC? Don't tell me PVP is nothing for you...

- I don't PvP.
- I don't "want new things" but I want access to them when there are in the game, I refuse difficulty-gated items.
- I didn't "demand" nerfs, I approve of them when they come.
- I approve of them because I feel for the people who actually cannot do them because they're too hard for them. Yeah, empathy, you know...(oh wait, no, you don't).
- And I also approve of them because I see that the gap between players is tearing entire guilds apart. Because we cannot play the new content together due to it being too hard for some members, it splits guilds and groups and friends. We're here to play together, and we can't, and guilds are fragilized in their identity due to this gap. Guilds are the core system of this game and I want this game to last.
- And I loathe competition.

You have already the access to the gear. You just don't want to get it. Thats the problem. But try to twist things further. Pointless...

"because they're too hard for them" always the same mistake. Sorry, if not everybody gets the loot. Where is you line of emathy? I am also aginst to hard dungeons. But the actual ones aren't. Lots of people can't complete it, because they try just 2 times and after this it is too hard. This is ridiculous...

"And I also approve of them because I see that the gap between players is tearing entire guilds apart. Because we cannot play the new content together due to it being too hard for some members, it splits guilds and groups and friends. We're here to play together, and we can't, and guilds are fragilized in their identity due to this gap. Guilds are the core system of this game and I want this game to last."
The problem is, that the majority doesn't wont to adapt. You must not change your complete playstyle in TESO to every dungeon. But the basics have to be understanded. After this the dungeon is not hard. I would get your point, if just 50 people get the dungeons clear. If you have to play a certain build and do 20k sustain DPS, have 50k life as a tank etc. But you could complete the dungeon with very easy to obtainable values. And even then they get nerfed. This is unfair...

SorataArisugawa

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

You won't get any of the respect or credit (which is methoporical the same here, because you want to get a bit of respect from others, even if they don't know what you achieved).

Sorry Sir but methoporically (?), metaphorically, or whatever, you should learn some vocabulary, because respect and credit are two different things entirely, and respect is something that is due to *everyone* regardless of any achievement (unlike credit).

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

"we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't play as well we do and doesn't set this goal for himself" is wrong. What we say is: "we are entitled to despise anyone who doesn't want to beat the game as it is"

You realize that the two sentences mean exactly the same, I hope ?
And, by the way, you're not entitled to despise anyone, actually.

Ohh dear...

respect could be a credit as well. I don't see it as this my self, but there a lots of people who do a lot to get the credit respekt.

This two sentences mean 2 different things:
1. I am against all people, who are not as good as I am.
2. I am against all people, who don't try enough to beat the challange, but demanding nerfs to get the same gear as the one who beat the challenge already.
Totaly different. Your sentence is selfcentered and would really be questionable, if the people thinks this way. But the other is just about fair and interesting challenges

anitajoneb17_ESO

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This is unfair...

Yeah, sooooo unfair.
A dungeon that you've had the possibility to run at highest difficulty for two months, that maybe you've ran a hundred times, is getting nerfed so that other people can enjoy it too, at a difficulty level that they can enjoy.
And that happens at the very same time when another very high difficulty content is being released so that you have a new playground suited to your needs (VMA).
Yeah, that's sooooo unfair... poor soul...

I believe we both have stated our arguments, readers can make up their minds, so I will not discuss directly with you any further. Carrying on repeating the same things over and over just because we disagree will lead nowhere.

omfgitsbatman

jakeedmundson wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

That's what normal is for.

i disagree... normal is to get acquainted with a dungeon. you get to know how it runs and you get starter gear drops.
normal mode isn't "casual only" content just like veteran mode isn't "elite player" only content. This game is like any other product...it needs to appeal to the majority to be successful and make money.
Everyone reaches "veteran" status by playing past the end of their faction's content. if you get to v16, have decent gear, and know your build... you should be able to group with friends and work your way through the vet content... but that's not how it works is it?
Too many times where dps is never enough... or the tank isn't tough enough... healer can't heal enough... it all seems to come down to champion points... someone can look up a build, put together gear, learn a rotation... but if you dont' have 400 cp, you won't beat certain parts of the game.... and thats stupid.... sorry, but it is.

If you get to v16, have decent gear, and know your build.... you should be able to group with friends and work your way through the vet content. I did it... I've done it multiple times and had a blast doing it. I started playing the game last October. 2 weeks after I hit v14, I took people that I met in pug groupfinder vet pledge groups into DSA. We were by no means good at this game. We cleared normal DSA after a few attempts then decided to attempt Vet DSA. We died... a lot... but with each death, we learned something and slowly got better. Every single night that we played, we were in VDSA dying. It took us about 2-3 weeks to finally get it down, but at the end, the sheer joy we felt was worth it. We had all improved by leaps and bounds and had almost every aspect of the place memorized.
Next Challenge: Sanctum Ophidia
At that time, not many guilds that were clearing Sanctum were taking people that hadn't done it before. So... I decided to put together a group in a guild that my VDSA buddies and I were in. This guild never even thought about going into Sanctum before we put together this group. They struggled with Hel Ra. It was the same story as above... except with well over a month of trying and dying. We all improved by huge amounts. We all grew closer as a group. We all learned the mechanics, and end the end we triumphed. This group was a ragtag group of misfits before we started doing this. Now, we can work our way through absolutely any content in the game.
All it takes is patience, a willingness to fail and learn, and a desire and you will eventually succeed. If you don't have the patience or desire, I recommend normal mode.

Also, as far as CP's I've done Vet ICP on Hardmode i a group where I was the only one with over 250 cp's. I only have slightly over 500 cp's right now, so I'm not a god by any means.

jakeedmundson

1

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

The two things i highlighted in bold do not go together... and they should not go together.
there is a huge difference between accepting a challenge and dedicating large amounts of time to complete something.

Would i accept the challenge to beat vWGT? yep...
CAN i dedicate the amount of time required to complete it? not usually.
People seem to want some kind of... "forever" video game... and they get that "if you're not in it for the long haul then just gtfo!" baditude.
Here's an idea for you "elitists".... try doing something else for a while. Don't live on a game... Try branching out a little bit... play other games, or even crazier.... go outside. it's insane that you think a game should be catered to you because you have nothing better to do for 8 hours a day.

We all purchased this game... the top 10% shouldn't be the ones calling the shots on how everyone else plays it. You wanna talk about people getting annoyed/bored and leaving? it's already happening to a larger crowd because they CANT complete end game content. (me and 5 friends started this game around the same time... i'm the only one left) noone wants to spend 6 hours trying to pass a dungeon ONE time just to find out they didn't get any worth-while item to drop.
If they want difficult... great... but make the completion worth it and allow a much better chance for items.
if they want repeatable content... great... but make the content quicker/easier to get through so you can try it more than one time a week.
Don't try to do both... it doesn't work. THAT will make people quit.

That's what normal is for.

i disagree... normal is to get acquainted with a dungeon. you get to know how it runs and you get starter gear drops.
normal mode isn't "casual only" content just like veteran mode isn't "elite player" only content. This game is like any other product...it needs to appeal to the majority to be successful and make money.
Everyone reaches "veteran" status by playing past the end of their faction's content. if you get to v16, have decent gear, and know your build... you should be able to group with friends and work your way through the vet content... but that's not how it works is it?
Too many times where dps is never enough... or the tank isn't tough enough... healer can't heal enough... it all seems to come down to champion points... someone can look up a build, put together gear, learn a rotation... but if you dont' have 400 cp, you won't beat certain parts of the game.... and thats stupid.... sorry, but it is.

If you get to v16, have decent gear, and know your build.... you should be able to group with friends and work your way through the vet content. I did it... I've done it multiple times and had a blast doing it. I started playing the game last October. 2 weeks after I hit v14, I took people that I met in pug groupfinder vet pledge groups into DSA. We were by no means good at this game. We cleared normal DSA after a few attempts then decided to attempt Vet DSA. We died... a lot... but with each death, we learned something and slowly got better. Every single night that we played, we were in VDSA dying. It took us about 2-3 weeks to finally get it down, but at the end, the sheer joy we felt was worth it. We had all improved by leaps and bounds and had almost every aspect of the place memorized.
Next Challenge: Sanctum Ophidia
At that time, not many guilds that were clearing Sanctum were taking people that hadn't done it before. So... I decided to put together a group in a guild that my VDSA buddies and I were in. This guild never even thought about going into Sanctum before we put together this group. They struggled with Hel Ra. It was the same story as above... except with well over a month of trying and dying. We all improved by huge amounts. We all grew closer as a group. We all learned the mechanics, and end the end we triumphed. This group was a ragtag group of misfits before we started doing this. Now, we can work our way through absolutely any content in the game.
All it takes is patience, a willingness to fail and learn, and a desire and you will eventually succeed. If you don't have the patience or desire, I recommend normal mode.

Also, as far as CP's I've done Vet ICP on Hardmode i a group where I was the only one with over 250 cp's. I only have slightly over 500 cp's right now, so I'm not a god by any means.

Glad it worked for you ... doesn't work for most of us. I didn't ask for the nerf... but it's already happening. sorry.
And i wont' keep repeating myself... if you want to see my counter to your argument above - read back through the comments because it's already been discussed a dozen times here.