FFS ZOS... AGAIN PTS PATCH NOTES!

Nifty2g

SienneYviete wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wait theres a mechanic on flesh sculptor?

If ZOS didn't spoonfeed half of the community then we would stop seeing nerfs like this, the "hardcore" players are the ones who have been around since the start and have dealt and played the hard content before ZOS decided to change their philosophy and cater largely to the weaker audience; 32 life trials, death penalties, time trials that were hard to get, trial hardmodes that took months.

Now we dont get death penalties and 72 life trials and easily beaten within 8 minutes or less. Not having a death penalty promotes an extremely bad playstyle.

Only way to fix this would be to add in what I like to call a mode for Veteran players and players who want to challenge themselves to better themselves at the game called Nightmare which increases the damage significantly and health to test your builds out and sustain etc etc, another thing players need to do is stop being so stubborn on their builds and acknowledge that it's not the best they can do, I see this so much in ESO people REFUSE to have help and get offended when you tell them they can do better than they are.

For example; this was posted over a month ago (September 14th)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qSrkb8n9YY

This was posted 5 days ago (October 22nd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEFkWuiJJvU

While I agree that there should be an even harder difficulty, the fact that these dungeons are daily pledges is a fairly large part of why people want a nerf. Changing builds yeah i'm fine with that and did so to get through vwgt (still no prison yet, finding it really hard to get a group) the fact of the matter is most players even fairly decent ones don't have the time nor patience to roll hours and hours to get themselves through these dungeons.

Also of note is your group is not the average, well well above average in fact and you need to understand that the majority of the player base will never be able to pull the numbers you guys can.

Once again I would definitely be in favour of some type of hardcore mode and nerf the vet because the normal is just stupidly easy and for most current players the vet is just too difficult. Just my two cents.

I agree, anyone can walk through Normal mode no problem, most of the players say its far too easy and move to Veteran mode and the gap is huge between those 2, no player can progress in such a way that will just ruin you, you can almost get through normal with any build you want to.

ZOS needs to make an even progression system, Veteran mode should include VR16 gear and slightly less harder than it is now, Nightmare Mode should include VR16 gear with slightly stronger enchantments on them (Undaunted sets not included), this not only evenly spreads out the player progression but is a very nice way to do so and to have healthy competition.

Having 2 modes will make 1 or the other cry as Veteran is designed for Hardcore Players, but Normal is far to easy and it becomes a huge problem when 1 party wants the other party to be nerfed and because the other party is much larger then Veteran Mode inevitably gets nerfed. Nightmare Mode should grant immunity against that system and always be hard forcing players to actually progress and adapt.

Just my thought @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert I know the team is short but this is something to look forward to for the future if you ever implement it, divide up the leaderboards for it too.

tengri

Nifty2g wrote: »

Only way to fix this would be to add in what I like to call a mode for Veteran players and players who want to challenge themselves to better themselves at the game

Only if everything you might get as a reward from such adventurers is equally available to "casual" players, too, and of course is BoP and can not be monetized in any way.
Then you can have your nightmare mode all day long...

Frenkthevile

vetWGT was fine after the first fix, vetICP was more like ''the f**k am i playing for?'', first boss gave no loot and 2nd boss was RNG based and required too much dps.

Mettaricana

OmniDevil wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is with players getting upset over changes like this. Seriously, I don't understand and would like to. Is it the idea of being in a 1%er category that can beat something difficult? Is everything too easy that you want something to be overly difficult?

I like challenge and do my best to min/max my builds with what I have available to ensure I'm dumping out as much DPS as possible, however. There are plenty of players that are still struggling with these two dungeons alone, while others have a difficult time getting past the first boss in Imperial Prison (nothing concrete past what I've heard around in-game and other forums sources). Vet Crypt of Hearts was pretty difficult the first time I ventured in there. When IC hit, it seemed even more difficult, though could still be done. It was challenging, but not to the extent that I felt like that hours of farming I put into being able to craft the gear I have did little to nothing for me. Going into IP or WGT, now, that's how it feels. It's difficulty isn't challenging, it's frustrating.

Is it a "stop catering to casuals" mindset? Why? Who started this idea that games should only be catered to those that can dedicate 6+ hours to a game a day/night? I'm lucky if I can play more than 5 hours in a week, 12 on the weekends. So, does that mean I'm not "allowed" to be able to enjoy group content because Jack puts in more time or Sally can play every day for as long as she wants? That's by choice, not necessity. However, by the "hardcore" standards you see in most MMOs, guilds should be requiring you to play certain builds/classes the way they deem fit for the guild, not your enjoyment.

Is it a "I don't want casuals to have my gear! I'm a snowflake!" reason? Again, why? What does someone else having the gear you have do to your game time? Nothing. It doesn't prevent the game from working, nor does it prevent dungeons from working.

Again, I'm not trying to harass or belittle, I just want to understand why changes like this are "bad".

I like this guys logic if we can't complete the dungeon its bad for business ma Khan es paying members quit for games that can be done

Wollust

I am more surprised by peoples reaction than the nerf to the dungeons. What did you expect? I expected the nerf in a few weeks more time, but I guess ZoS does not rest for the casuals while keeping other gamebreaking stuff in place for months. Or years.

Septimus_Magna

Easy mode, easy mode everywhere!

Usara

Ezareth wrote: »

I've run ICP with some of the best players in the game and I'll say the Flesh Sculptor fight is just too hard and too RNG to the point I wont even run ICP because it just isn't fun, even when it is the undaunted daily. There is absolutely zero loot acquired in ICP that you can't aready get in a WGT which I though was balanced pretty well (The bug fixes on the pinion was needed though).

Well I did it two days ago with guildmates and well... they managed to stop all the adds. Even the sprinting ones.
No atros but the first scripted one ^^ I was tanking and it was almost boring. At least, the fight didn't last long.

EDIT : the only RNG in this fight imo is who the boss will stop on the ground. In our case we were lucky it was always me and my DPS colleague, not the guys doing the green stuff.

Senaxu

@Nifty2g xD


http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/286be1pwns2u.png

Merlin13KAGL

Ezareth wrote: »

I've run ICP with some of the best players in the game and I'll say the Flesh Sculptor fight is just too hard and too RNG to the point I wont even run ICP because it just isn't fun, even when it is the undaunted daily. There is absolutely zero loot acquired in ICP that you can't aready get in a WGT which I though was balanced pretty well (The bug fixes on the pinion was needed though).

Agree with @Ezareth here.

Sculptor is the hardest fight of either Vet Dungeon for me, not because of the damage, but because of the fumble factor. Not a huge fan of "dumb luck" type RNG fights most of the time anyway, but there is more than that.

(Allow me to explain before the host of L2P)

I adore that it's a new mechanic (the grenades and adds > atronachs) and not a repeat of something elsewhere. That being said, I have a hell of a time targeting the grenades and getting them to 'pick up' / interacting.

While I'm fairly convinced it's due to the offset reticle I currently have set up, my sweet spot for dealing DPS and the same for interacting with an item is slightly different. It's to the point where I have to be right on top of a grenade and practically look straight down to interact. Even then, it's sometimes sketchy.

My logic being, my VR16 character possesses far more physical skill and grace than my IRL self. I'm pretty sure my character would be able to kneel down to find/pick up a grenade while still focusing (visually, not DPS) on the point of interest elsewhere. (It's the same reason I get irritated with I get hung up on a blade of grass or can't seem to "figure out" how to get through the wide spot between two chatty NPC's without roll dodging...)

If I change my targeting reticle, my DPS/targeting will suffer. Perhaps expanding the hit box (for pickup interaction) on the grenades?

Regarding the pledges for both, agreed the rewards are hardly worth the cost (gems, potions, time). Same with the nigh-impossible to find two-chest-limit in all group dungeons...guarantee a set piece and more than one soul gem for locating these and perhaps people will be more interested in running them beyond grinding of gear...

Anyone else have this issue? Targeting for pickup? (I can place them with surgical precision once in hand, halfway across the room.)

code65536 wrote: »

No. Normal is too damned easy. We breeze through normal without even trying.
.

@code65536 agree here, too.

Last nerf, they dialed normal back to the point of unattended faceroll, which was completely unnecessary.

They need to learn to split the difference or add a slider.

TheBull

Ezareth wrote: »

I've run ICP with some of the best players in the game and I'll say the Flesh Sculptor fight is just too hard and too RNG to the point I wont even run ICP because it just isn't fun, even when it is the undaunted daily. There is absolutely zero loot acquired in ICP that you can't aready get in a WGT which I though was balanced pretty well (The bug fixes on the pinion was needed though).

The best players clear ICP. They may need time to adjust, but they clear. Once they do, it's ran in 25 mins.

The problem with nerfing it further is that there is no other challenging PvE group content. There will be none for months. In my personal opinion ICP and WGT should not be nerfed until new trial content is released IF it is to be nerfed at all.

Dymence

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

Nifty2g

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

@Dymence check the link in my signature try and get that word around, Nightmare mode

also @Senaxu nice, did you do the mechanic ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

So what ? Well, that one is easy.
You want US to be bored by normal mode in order for YOU to NOT get bored by vet mode.

See ? That's YOU vs US.

You cannot win that one because you're outnumbered by US, and by FAR.

So you'd better change your perspective and your argumentation here. @Nifty2g is much more flexible and understanding than you. Think outside of yourself once in a while.

And don't forget that I belong to those who can clear those dungeons. I just feel for others, unlike you.

Senaxu

@Nifty2g like Dymence already said.

There is no mechanic if you just can burst bosses in less then one minute most of the cases. I really miss the IC Dungeon like they were on the PTS where you need to throw 2 flesh grenades on the zombies to kill them. Now it has been nerfed 2 times already (soon 3 times) and the same will happen to maelstrom arena that everyone can clear it on Vet-mode. Tbh for the stamina classes (i have no idea about stamina) it seem to be to hard, but for magica users its really doable like dymence proofed already. I really hope they will insert a hardcore mod soon. but i think it will stay the same and casuals want to be able to clear that aswell ^^

Nifty2g

Senaxu wrote: »

@Nifty2g like Dymence already said.

There is no mechanic if you just can burst bosses in less then one minute most of the cases. I really miss the IC Dungeon like they were on the PTS where you need to throw 2 flesh grenades on the zombies to kill them. Now it has been nerfed 2 times already (soon 3 times) and the same will happen to maelstrom arena that everyone can clear it on Vet-mode. Tbh for the stamina classes (i have no idea about stamina) it seem to be to hard, but for magica users its really doable like dymence proofed already. I really hope they will insert a hardcore mod soon. but i think it will stay the same and casuals want to be able to clear that aswell ^^

yeah i know i've been skipping the mechanic since it was launched actually
spread the nightmare mode around and lets make it happen

Dymence

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

So what ? Well, that one is easy.
You want US to be bored by normal mode in order for YOU to NOT get bored by vet mode.

See ? That's YOU vs US.

You cannot win that one because you're outnumbered by US, and by FAR.

So you'd better change your perspective and your argumentation here. @Nifty2g is much more flexible and understanding than you. Think outside of yourself once in a while.

And don't forget that I belong to those who can clear those dungeons. I just feel for others, unlike you.

You have an option to not be bored. You can improve yourself or whatever to face the 'challenge' vet currently poses.

We can't do anything. We're already at the top, with nothing to do, nothing to keep us interested.

Who's being selfish here?

This entire ridiculous debate would cease of the 'casuals' would just try to improve themselves instead of catering all content to themselves.

paulsimonps

Nifty2g wrote: »

Senaxu wrote: »

@Nifty2g like Dymence already said.

There is no mechanic if you just can burst bosses in less then one minute most of the cases. I really miss the IC Dungeon like they were on the PTS where you need to throw 2 flesh grenades on the zombies to kill them. Now it has been nerfed 2 times already (soon 3 times) and the same will happen to maelstrom arena that everyone can clear it on Vet-mode. Tbh for the stamina classes (i have no idea about stamina) it seem to be to hard, but for magica users its really doable like dymence proofed already. I really hope they will insert a hardcore mod soon. but i think it will stay the same and casuals want to be able to clear that aswell ^^

yeah i know i've been skipping the mechanic since it was launched actually
spread the nightmare mode around and lets make it happen

Good luck with that, like I said on here earlier, if we manage to make the devs give us a Nightmare mode or Hardcore, whatever you want to call it. The average players will not be able to complete it and ask them to nerf that as well. Cause if we had a nightmare mode there would also have to be a reward for it and if everyone can't get that reward cause they can't complete they will feel cheated. Same thing here, v16 only drops in Veteran so those that can't complete screams NERF so that they can get the same as those who can do it before the nerf.

Merlin13KAGL

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

@Dymence , @Senaxu , @Nifty2g Have you ever cleared it using the intended mechanic, just out of curiosity?

It changes the scenario.

I'm in no way trying to get your numbers nerfed. You're clearly bad ass, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Where it becomes an issue (and this is on ZoS's side of the house) is when such bad ass numbers can be used to essentially bypass the intended mechanic.

It's a hard one to balance - there should be challenge at all levels of the game and the ability (with practice and work) and motivation/desire to want to progress to the next level.

As previously mentioned, ZoS does not currently accommodate all levels.

They dial things too far back, more often than not, which absolutely kills the game for your guys, or they leave things ridiculous for the other end of the spectrum.

For the record, I'm somewhere in between. I do try to complete content the developer intended way first, using the mechanics, etc. After a certain amount of that, obviously more efficient ways are found and used.

They need to implement a damn difficulty slider, with gear commensurate accordingly.

Norm should be casual, Vet more experienced, Hard Mode / Nightmare for the elite.

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

Nifty2g

I did it about 5 times before I thought how ridiculous it was this was before the first nerf hit

GAULSTON7

Clearly these nerfs take precedence over the nasty long load screens...which they'll probably never fix...I think their goal is to lose their player base ASAP.

jakeedmundson

1

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

So by your logic.... casuals are stupid and lazy... we can't possibly understand how to get through veteran dungeons...we can't possibly understand which gear to use (some of it we can't obtain due to time)... which skills and rotations to use... we're not veteran material.
I guess all of us should just accept that normal mode dungeons are the end of the line for us and quit playing... i'm sure the eso team would love to hear your ideas

Dymence

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

@Dymence , @Senaxu , @Nifty2g Have you ever cleared it using the intended mechanic, just out of curiosity?

Since I've run it with a lot of different groups, it varies a lot depending on the group strength. Sometimes you have to do the mechanic and sometimes you don't. It doesn't make it any easier/harder though, just makes the fight shorter/longer.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

While I agree to this, and I also think @Nifty2g his idea with the nightmare mode is desirable, I sincerely doubt it will ever be realized. Simply because of the fact that, as previously stated in this thread, people feel entitled to rewards. If they feel the content is too hard to achieve said rewards, it will get nerfed. Just like what's happening to veteran modes currently.

The problem isn't the game - it's the community.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

So by your logic.... casuals are stupid and lazy... we can't possibly understand how to get through veteran dungeons...we can't possibly understand which gear to use (some of it we can't obtain due to time)... which skills and rotations to use... we're not veteran material.
I guess all of us should just accept that normal mode dungeons are the end of the line for us and quit playing... i'm sure the eso team would love to hear your ideas

Nice way to spin my words.

I said you need to work for it. Understanding comes with practice. Don't ask for everything to get nerfed.

Senaxu

paulsimonps wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Senaxu wrote: »

@Nifty2g like Dymence already said.

There is no mechanic if you just can burst bosses in less then one minute most of the cases. I really miss the IC Dungeon like they were on the PTS where you need to throw 2 flesh grenades on the zombies to kill them. Now it has been nerfed 2 times already (soon 3 times) and the same will happen to maelstrom arena that everyone can clear it on Vet-mode. Tbh for the stamina classes (i have no idea about stamina) it seem to be to hard, but for magica users its really doable like dymence proofed already. I really hope they will insert a hardcore mod soon. but i think it will stay the same and casuals want to be able to clear that aswell ^^

yeah i know i've been skipping the mechanic since it was launched actually
spread the nightmare mode around and lets make it happen

Good luck with that, like I said on here earlier, if we manage to make the devs give us a Nightmare mode or Hardcore, whatever you want to call it. The average players will not be able to complete it and ask them to nerf that as well. Cause if we had a nightmare mode there would also have to be a reward for it and if everyone can't get that reward cause they can't complete they will feel cheated. Same thing here, v16 only drops in Veteran so those that can't complete screams NERF so that they can get the same as those who can do it before the nerf.

it sounds so sad but you are absolutely right. as soon there is a reward for something people want to be able to clear it. they dont care about the difficult name "hardcore/nightmare". take your bow on your stamina sorc and lets go.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

Norm should be casual, Vet more experienced, Hard Mode / Nightmare for the elite.

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

that would be so nice, but i think it will never happen. ZOS have to do so many other stuff and the small percentage of players who want an elite/hardcore/nightmare mode is not worth to do the big work on that. there are many more casuals out there that are play since few months and that's also the reason for the average CP value of 93 for PC.

anitajoneb17_ESO

paulsimonps wrote: »

Cause if we had a nightmare mode there would also have to be a reward for it and if everyone can't get that reward cause they can't complete they will feel cheated.

Nope. As long as we can get the same rewards other ways.

The current problem is that these 2 dungeons are the only way to get the new gear sets IN VR16. And if we get it at VR15 doing normal mode, we cannot upgrade it to VR16.

Now if vet mode (nerfed) give VR16 in blue or purple and "nightmare" mode gives VR16 in legendary, I don't mind because I can always upgrade from blue to legendary myself. It's not gated behind difficulty.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

You have an option to not be bored. You can improve yourself or whatever to face the 'challenge' vet currently poses.

We can't do anything. We're already at the top, with nothing to do, nothing to keep us interested.

You also have plenty of options not to be bored.
Like playing the mechanics instead of bursting, for instance.
Or go with lesser gear, non-typical builds, naked, all DPS, all werewolves.

Like you and me did when the trials became too easy , so we 6-manned HelRa, you 6manned Mantikora... that kind of things.

Furthermore, you (we) have already had two months of "full difficulty" (even if in your case it looks like was too easy from the start), now is a good time for nerfing a bit.

Merlin13KAGL

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Cause if we had a nightmare mode there would also have to be a reward for it and if everyone can't get that reward cause they can't complete they will feel cheated.

Nope. As long as we can get the same rewards other ways.

The current problem is that these 2 dungeons are the only way to get the new gear sets IN VR16. And if we get it at VR15 doing normal mode, we cannot upgrade it to VR16.

Now if vet mode (nerfed) give VR16 in blue or purple and "nightmare" mode gives VR16 in legendary, I don't mind because I can always upgrade from blue to legendary myself. It's not gated behind difficulty.

@anitajoneb17_ESO the 'other way' should be progression to the point where you can complete whatever is required to obtain the reward.

Simply put, everyone does not have to have access to everything. It's not unreasonable at all - it gives you something to work towards.

There should, however, be reasonable / logical means to progress to get to that point. The standalone's did it via "Trainers." Currently, there is no real method to practice something to improve it other than the main content itself. There is no in game feedback (other than those really helpful Death Recap tips) to help direct you on how to improve.

If there was a training arena, of some sort, where people could practice and eventually master certain things, it would go a long way in that direction.

Providing uniquely obtainable rewards is not unrealistic though - it gives meaning to the achievement/completion.

Simply providing a gold version of an item is not sufficient. The ease of obtaining upgrade mats vs the (proposed) difficulty of the particular content would lessen the achievement of completing the harder version.

It is not unreasonable that certain things have to be earned, so long as they provide a way to get there. (Nerfing is not that way, incidentally.)

paulsimonps

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Cause if we had a nightmare mode there would also have to be a reward for it and if everyone can't get that reward cause they can't complete they will feel cheated.

Nope. As long as we can get the same rewards other ways.

The current problem is that these 2 dungeons are the only way to get the new gear sets IN VR16. And if we get it at VR15 doing normal mode, we cannot upgrade it to VR16.

Now if vet mode (nerfed) give VR16 in blue or purple and "nightmare" mode gives VR16 in legendary, I don't mind because I can always upgrade from blue to legendary myself. It's not gated behind difficulty.

But that's the problem. Why do it on Nightmare if you can get exact same thing an other way, changing quality is a cheap solution. I mean look at the master weapons. For the longest time most people could not compete VDSA, then they nerfed it to the ground and people then did it so easy and so often that people got bored real quick of it and Master weapons were being used by everyone and their dog. I remember when having the Boethias Scythe Titles meant something. But if we keep nerfing everything to the ground then the progression of ones character will quickly stagnate and we are left with nothing but boring CP grind that will now be capped anyway. Having challenging content to overcome with difficult mechanics is what I want, and I want to to stay difficult or there is no fun in it. Facerolling through veteran dungeons is not fun and the same thing goes for the trials, even before IC(with the exception of SO)

cschwingeb14_ESO

I'm quite sure that ZOS has attempt vs completion rates of all dungeons and bosses. I'm also pretty sure that they DON'T want to put 100's of man hours into creating content that only 1% of the V16 population sees (ie, the end of vICP, because boss #2 is super difficult). And they REALLY REALLY don't want to put 100's of man hours into content that pisses off 90% of their player base.

Next, the flesh grenade mechanic sucks balls (yes, I've done it, and I will never bother again). I bet it sucks a lot more on console. It would be better if flesh grenades were synergies without a timer, rather than interactable objects.

The increased difficulty of vet ICP, WGT (and soon) Maelstrom arena vs normal is, as everyone else says, too big a jump. And certainly too long and difficult for miniscule drop rates. "It took 3 hours to do, man that was a tough run but we did it! Awesome!" is quite a bit different than: "Holy f***, I need to run this s*** how many times to get my set?"

It's a game, not a career

I'd recommend that anyone who feels untimed vet content is too easy, run it without a few pieces of armor. You will get a nice challenge. And once you can do it without any armor, come on back and complain it's too easy. ZOS might listen then. Also, your leetness will gain you several hundred gold in saved repair bills.

Petros

OmniDevil wrote: »

Is everything too easy that you want something to be overly difficult?

Yes, this is what we want

Petros

Nifty2g wrote: »

Wait theres a mechanic on flesh sculptor?

If ZOS didn't spoonfeed half of the community then we would stop seeing nerfs like this, the "hardcore" players are the ones who have been around since the start and have dealt and played the hard content before ZOS decided to change their philosophy and cater largely to the weaker audience; 32 life trials, death penalties, time trials that were hard to get, trial hardmodes that took months.

Now we dont get death penalties and 72 life trials and easily beaten within 8 minutes or less. Not having a death penalty promotes an extremely bad playstyle.

Only way to fix this would be to add in what I like to call a mode for Veteran players and players who want to challenge themselves to better themselves at the game called Nightmare which increases the damage significantly and health to test your builds out and sustain etc etc, another thing players need to do is stop being so stubborn on their builds and acknowledge that it's not the best they can do, I see this so much in ESO people REFUSE to have help and get offended when you tell them they can do better than they are.

For example; this was posted over a month ago (September 14th)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qSrkb8n9YY

This was posted 5 days ago (October 22nd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEFkWuiJJvU

Nifty is correct (How you doing bud?) As players that have played since beta, and play 5-7 days a week for trial and dungeon strats that took months of restless nights to complete, we deserve the right the say this, to say that they should stop lowering the difficulty because some players are to stubborn to change there game play to the correct way to complete these scenarios.

This is why ESO is getting BORING, because it's becoming too easy. The other players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on. Well I say no!