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Champion System Catch-up Mechanic

ZOS_RyanRuzich
ZOS_RyanRuzich
✭✭✭
Greetings all!

There have been several requests on the forums for an explanation of exactly how the Champion System Catch-up mechanic we’re introducing with the Orsinium patch works. We’re here to offer some details about how the system works on the PTS, and hopefully answer some of your questions. Please note: This thread is not to discuss the pros/cons of the system, but rather to pass on some information about how the system currently works to help you with testing, and assist us in spotting any inconsistencies or errors.

With the new system, the formula used to calculate the amount of XP needed to gain a single Champion Point is as follows:
((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.
If you exceed the cap, the XP required is calculated given the above formula, and then tripled. (So, the XP you would need to earn 512 Champion Points is 589,807, which is then tripled to 1,769,421.)
For the first Champion Point (going from 0 Champion Points to 1 Champion Point) 1XP is required.
We only triple the point values if you are over the current Champion Point cap—once we raise the cap, the values will return to normal.

The new catch-up mechanic, currently on PTS, is subject to change based on player feedback and data. We’ll be iterating on it as needed on the PTS—we’ll do our best to update this post if and when that happens.

Please let us know if you have any questions!
Ryan Ruzich
Gameplay Programmer - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited
Staff Post
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why not just boost enlightenment?
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
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    Xeven wrote: »
    So to get CP #501 it takes 576,733 XP. I'm ok with that because with the given formula it will be 634,219 XP to get CP #3600, which isn't much more TBH.

    Nice work guys.


    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.
    3600 not exceed 3600.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.
    ok it works math with no redbull no work.

    Still at no stage should any we earn be harder than what it took for them to earn if they are not scaled back.
    Edited by silky_soft on October 7, 2015 10:20PM
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • Xeven
    Xeven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.

    ((3599/(3600^0.95))+0.08)*400000 = 634,219

    It's only tripled if you exceed the cap. It really is a fantastic formula.


    Edited by Xeven on October 7, 2015 10:05PM
  • zornyan
    zornyan
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    Xeven wrote: »
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.

    ((3599/(3600^0.95))+0.08)*400000 = 634,219

    It's only tripled if you exceed the cap.


    You forgot to triple it...

    Besides if you check the other thread people have been posting up numbers of which they require for next cp, and people over 500 are already needing over a million, and people at 700+ are into several million per cp.

    So especially you're happy to have a rough number of 2-3 million per cp for anyone that remotely played the game since releaae?
  • Yattaq
    Yattaq
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    zornyan wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.

    ((3599/(3600^0.95))+0.08)*400000 = 634,219

    It's only tripled if you exceed the cap.


    You forgot to triple it...

    Besides if you check the other thread people have been posting up numbers of which they require for next cp, and people over 500 are already needing over a million, and people at 700+ are into several million per cp.

    So especially you're happy to have a rough number of 2-3 million per cp for anyone that remotely played the game since releaae?

    You don't triple it if the cap is 3600.
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
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    Xeven wrote: »
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.

    ((3599/(3600^0.95))+0.08)*400000 = 634,219

    It's only tripled if you exceed the cap. It really is a fantastic formula.


    Just woke up. Math without redbull no work.
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • Sublime
    Sublime
    ✭✭✭✭
    For those who prefer graphics (Plots are based on the 501 cap):

    http://fooplot.com/plot/khhyy9dxgx
    http://fooplot.com/plot/tlk2778c6l
    Edited by Sublime on October 7, 2015 10:10PM
  • ZOS_RyanRuzich
    ZOS_RyanRuzich
    ✭✭✭
    silky_soft wrote: »
    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.
    Unless the math is wrong:
    ((698 / (501 ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000 * 3 = 2377344
    ((2000 / (501 ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000 * 3 = 6632803
    Is this not what you're seeing on PTS?

    Ryan Ruzich
    Gameplay Programmer - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited
    Staff Post
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still the fact is that those above 338 now have to get more XP then the current farmers for their next CP
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    silky_soft wrote: »
    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.
    Unless the math is wrong:
    ((698 / (501 ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000 * 3 = 2377344
    ((2000 / (501 ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000 * 3 = 6632803
    Is this not what you're seeing on PTS?

    @ZOS_RyanRuzich I already edit it mate.

    Why not boost enlightenment though?
    How come it costs us more to earn CP?
    Are those above cap going to be scaled down?
    Edited by silky_soft on October 7, 2015 10:19PM
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • ZOS_RyanRuzich
    ZOS_RyanRuzich
    ✭✭✭
    silky_soft wrote: »
    I already edit it mate

    There's a lag for when a post is submitted on our end and when it gets approved. Sorry :-(
    Ryan Ruzich
    Gameplay Programmer - The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited
    Staff Post
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_RyanRuzich so this is true comparing new system to old system?

    I'm 260 cp
    It will cost me 7cp less to get to 338cp
    It will then cost me 36cp more to get to from 338cp to 501cp
    Which makes me 31cp worse off under the new system.

    Assuming that I stop trying to perfect my rotation and counters actually pvp'ing to grind pve.
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • Kwivur
    Kwivur
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    Great job. I like knowing that people with 2500 CP need 8,267,003 XP while the cap is 501. I'd like to see someone no life that. lol
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    silky_soft wrote: »
    @ZOS_RyanRuzich so this is true comparing new system to old system?

    I'm 260 cp
    It will cost me 7cp less to get to 338cp
    It will then cost me 36cp more to get to from 338cp to 501cp
    Which makes me 31cp worse off under the new system.

    Assuming that I stop trying to perfect my rotation and counters actually pvp'ing to grind pve.

    That point of view doesn't paint the whole picture. You will be far better off under the new system competitively, and this is only the first iteration of the formula.

    If your math is correct, esentially you're forfitting 31 xp for a fair fight vs anyone with 1600+ cp.

    Edited by Xeven on October 7, 2015 11:23PM
  • jluchau
    jluchau
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    zornyan wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If the cap was 3600 it would be 1902657 from 3599 to 3600. Problem we are having is with this implementation it is penalizing those that have not ground out 1000+ cp.

    So someone at 2000 would need to get 2210934xp for 2001 cp. But this is not the case because earlier we found out that for 698th champ point you'll need 2377344.

    ((3599/(3600^0.95))+0.08)*400000 = 634,219

    It's only tripled if you exceed the cap.

    So especially you're happy to have a rough number of 2-3 million per cp for anyone that remotely played the game since releaae?

    I've played at least 5 days a weak since launch... I have 103 CP's currently. I understand I'm no where near as active as some but I suspect i'm about average. I suspect the way this works nobody will be in the 2-3 million xp per cp range.
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    ...Please note: This thread is not to discuss the pros/cons of the system, but rather to pass on some information about how the system currently works to help you with testing, and assist us in spotting any inconsistencies or errors...
    v16 NB,DK,Sorc
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Greetings all!

    There have been several requests on the forums for an explanation of exactly how the Champion System Catch-up mechanic we’re introducing with the Orsinium patch works. We’re here to offer some details about how the system works on the PTS, and hopefully answer some of your questions. Please note: This thread is not to discuss the pros/cons of the system, but rather to pass on some information about how the system currently works to help you with testing, and assist us in spotting any inconsistencies or errors.

    With the new system, the formula used to calculate the amount of XP needed to gain a single Champion Point is as follows:
    ((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.
    If you exceed the cap, the XP required is calculated given the above formula, and then tripled. (So, the XP you would need to earn 512 Champion Points is 589,807, which is then tripled to 1,769,421.)
    For the first Champion Point (going from 0 Champion Points to 1 Champion Point) 1XP is required.
    We only triple the point values if you are over the current Champion Point cap—once we raise the cap, the values will return to normal.

    The new catch-up mechanic, currently on PTS, is subject to change based on player feedback and data. We’ll be iterating on it as needed on the PTS—we’ll do our best to update this post if and when that happens.

    Please let us know if you have any questions!

    Ryan,

    I really like this formula! It accomplishes everything the community has been wanting in a reasonable manner

    My only issue with the existing Seasonal cap you've set for PC is I feel that 501 CPs is too low and will rob many active players such as myself and many others who have played the game normally of a normal sense of progression. I'd be fine with earning CPs (that I can spend) at the increased cost that players in the 338CP to the 501CP range are seeing with the existing cap but I and many other active players and supporters of ESO are going to go into Osrinium patch earning future CPs at a hyper inflated cost and I think that is something you should look at.

    Setting the First season cap at 600-700CPs I think would be much more reasonable, especially if this is a cap you plan on keeping in place for longer than 30 days.

    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • vanzan
    vanzan
    ✭✭✭
    Question I have is, post season 1 will this formula actually allow people to catch-up?
    Based on the average CP and this formula what do you expect the average person to earn?

    Let me make some assumptions

    Assume average CP earned per season is 258

    Season 1 Cap 501
    Average CP at End of Season 1 = 338
    Gap = 163 CP

    Season 2 Cap 1000
    Average CP at End of Season 2 - 596 CP
    Gap = 404

    Season 3 Cap 1500
    Average CP at End of Season 3 - 854 CP
    Gap = 646

    I would assume that catch-up would mean the "average" gap would be getting smaller not larger?

    My numbers are all based on a few assumptions however I am trying to illustrate a point to ensure that it is considered.

    Ty for your time.

    Vanzan Lizardman - TKG

  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Kinda feels like those ppl at 1k cp now, can sit there and laugh at us, because it will take us lowbies at 500 and less much longer time to actually catch up to him, maybe never, even if he basicly never earns another cp. The catchup mechanic is kinda working backwards here. Yea theres a cap now so you can only spend 501, but when the cap is then raised, those at 500 now will have earned much less then they normally should and that the top players earned at 500ish. So when the cap is reaised...well you know...
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • silky_soft
    silky_soft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    silky_soft wrote: »
    @ZOS_RyanRuzich so this is true comparing new system to old system?

    I'm 260 cp
    It will cost me 7cp less to get to 338cp
    It will then cost me 36cp more to get to from 338cp to 501cp
    Which makes me 31cp worse off under the new system.

    Assuming that I stop trying to perfect my rotation and counters actually pvp'ing to grind pve.

    That point of view doesn't paint the whole picture. You will be far better off under the new system competitively, and this is only the first iteration of the formula.

    If your math is correct, esentially you're forfitting 31 xp for a fair fight vs someone with 2000 cp.
    With this system there is a soft cap around 35% lower then the actual cap.

    assuming I'm going from softcap to softcap

    1002 is 653
    1502 is 960
    2004 is 1261
    2505 is 1559
    Edited by silky_soft on October 7, 2015 11:45PM
    Haha block, ha rip.
    Here $15, goat mount please. Not paying 45 : lol :
    Netch is free with a cleanse and free magika. You nerf siphon into the ground. Nice balance team.
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xeven wrote: »
    @Ezareth

    Did you see this?
    I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
    • Average CP on PC - 93
    • Average CP on PS4 - 46
    • Average CP on XB1 - 44
    The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.

    You and I are the minority. I want a balanced game with good fights and I thought you did too. This is a good thing!

    Yes I saw that Xeven. I think this formula with the way it is designed will achieve that. Raising the Cap by 100-200 CPs will not impede that goal, but it will give some enjoyment to active players.

    I've already resigned myself to from here on out earning champion points at an increased cost which is fine by me for a player in the top 10% or so. I just want to be able to continue to have a sense of progression as I move (much slower) each season towards the cap.

    The way this system is designed once the cap is moved a couple of times it will once again free up me and many others around my CP level, but we have to wait until that point in time which is what I'm arguing against.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    vanzan wrote: »
    Question I have is, post season 1 will this formula actually allow people to catch-up?
    Based on the average CP and this formula what do you expect the average person to earn?

    Let me make some assumptions

    Assume average CP earned per season is 258

    Season 1 Cap 501
    Average CP at End of Season 1 = 338
    Gap = 163 CP

    Season 2 Cap 1000
    Average CP at End of Season 2 - 596 CP
    Gap = 404

    Season 3 Cap 1500
    Average CP at End of Season 3 - 854 CP
    Gap = 646

    I would assume that catch-up would mean the "average" gap would be getting smaller not larger?

    My numbers are all based on a few assumptions however I am trying to illustrate a point to ensure that it is considered.

    Ty for your time.

    Yes and no.

    This formula will not allow players who are extremely casual a chance to "catch up" to players who are hard core or extremely active.

    It *will* however allow players who are new to the game and extremely active a chance to "Catch up" to players who are past the cap today which I think is the intended design.

    Additionally players who are semi-casual or fairly active but not totally into XP gaining activities will gain CPs at a drastically increase rate for the remainder of their time in ESO which is also a plus.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
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