Cloak Needs A Nerf

killingspreeb16_ESO

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

SHIELDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN NERFED... shall I say it again? Shields are 50% less effective now. Shut. The. Hell. Up.

And dmg is nerfed too you know?oh wait maybe youre a sorc since dmg still insane for them maybe you dind't notice that.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Master_Kas wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

You want to know what is really OP?

The sorcerer, maybe that is a topic of a new discussion but as far as NBs go. I personally don't think there is a problem with cloak, I use it to escape and leave danger, or maybe sneak up and try to kill someone. You know how many times I die? Allot, I died so many times my kill counter said, "I was a Lover not a fighter".

And don't think I have never been ganked by another NB. I have many times, I hate when I spend 450g on a siege and a NB sneaks up and burns it.

People talk about about spamming cloak, well who does not use the same skill all the time? Sorcs have their pets to protect them, I get struck by whatever lightening skill they use and magical balls all the time. So spamming is not just cloaking.. its used on every single class.

I think people don't understand what the real problem is.. YOU CAN NOT FIGHT IN PVP OR IC ALONE. If you want to survive and win in PvP/IC you really need to be in large groups.

Just remember all you players out there that want to cry Nerf? Well ZOS does hear you but I almost guarantee if they Nerf cloak.. your not going to like it. The changes they make may affect one of your skills, or it could make one of your class skills OP. Then you will be in the same position I am; trying to defend your class.

What is really sad is, the people that are creating these topics are more than likely players that don't play allot. Players that want everything at once, they cry because they don't have enough CP because the person that has been working so hard to get to the top plays to much.

I see threads on this forum, that say "This forum is toxic". At first I thought they were crazy, but after reading deep into these types of discussions. I am now believing this place is toxic.

Hush don't you dare say anything about sorcerers. It's so weak compared to nightblades, no defense besides their shield which isn't even OP.

Look at the nightblades nerf them , with their cloakspamming. There is NO way for a poor sorcerer to break their cloak making it useless.

Let the sorcs spam their hardened ward with no regen/cost penalty and absorb/migate damage like tank-built characters while wearing skirts and a staff while putting out higher burst

/bow to our sorc overlord,their class is too weak no defense or utility0 CC and low dmg and they are countered by everything! Im glad the sorc class have so many good player!

Derra

revonine wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

You want to know what is really OP?

The sorcerer, maybe that is a topic of a new discussion but as far as NBs go. I personally don't think there is a problem with cloak, I use it to escape and leave danger, or maybe sneak up and try to kill someone. You know how many times I die? Allot, I died so many times my kill counter said, "I was a Lover not a fighter".

And don't think I have never been ganked by another NB. I have many times, I hate when I spend 450g on a siege and a NB sneaks up and burns it.

People talk about about spamming cloak, well who does not use the same skill all the time? Sorcs have their pets to protect them, I get struck by whatever lightening skill they use and magical balls all the time. So spamming is not just cloaking.. its used on every single class.

I think people don't understand what the real problem is.. YOU CAN NOT FIGHT IN PVP OR IC ALONE. If you want to survive and win in PvP/IC you really need to be in large groups.

Just remember all you players out there that want to cry Nerf? Well ZOS does hear you but I almost guarantee if they Nerf cloak.. your not going to like it. The changes they make may affect one of your skills, or it could make one of your class skills OP. Then you will be in the same position I am; trying to defend your class.

What is really sad is, the people that are creating these topics are more than likely players that don't play allot. Players that want everything at once, they cry because they don't have enough CP because the person that has been working so hard to get to the top plays to much.

I see threads on this forum, that say "This forum is toxic". At first I thought they were crazy, but after reading deep into these types of discussions. I am now believing this place is toxic.

Hush don't you dare say anything about sorcerers. It's so weak compared to nightblades, no defense besides their shield which isn't even OP.

Look at the nightblades nerf them , with their cloakspamming. There is NO way for a poor sorcerer to break their cloak making it useless.

Let the sorcs spam their hardened ward with no regen/cost penalty and absorb/migate damage like tank-built characters while wearing skirts and a staff while putting out higher burst

Make cloak an ultimate and give NBs a classshield. Everybody happy.

I'm not sure either deleting death stroke, soul siphon or veil of blades would make very many people happy. They're all incredibly useful ultimates. Imagine spending your ultimate only to have someone throw down an aoe or use a stupid cheap detect pot. Every counter would have to be removed in that scenario.

Well ofc make it like last 5 and non breakable.

But yeah - NB has only good ultimates. Not like sorc with trololoverload and i´ve forgot the other ones bc i´ve not put any skillpoints there since 1.6.

Overload hits pretty hard man, 10K easy even with the damage reduction. Though it's weak to DK reflect and defensive stance. I do agree on the other ultimates though they're pretty meh in PvP.

Yeh it hit´s hard. But it´s kind of a troll mechanic. If you start a fight with 1000 ultimate anyone without reflect will inevitably die to it if he´s not able to outheal ~10k dps in pvp. It´s an ultimate with little to no use when used with below 160 ultimate against a competent opponent but insanely powerful when used with more. I don´t like the mechanic at all.
Also the third skill bar added to it is kind of gamebreaking when it comes to duels.

Derra

Soulac wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

God ZOS game balance is hitting such dumb levels, why not add a update that makes heals,cloaks,shields rolls and everything else cost more per use....
CP and lack of caps are causing this not skills.

I could make a thread and complain about balance or CP and it could get 1000likes
Wouldnt change a thing.

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

You want to know what is really OP?

The sorcerer, maybe that is a topic of a new discussion but as far as NBs go. I personally don't think there is a problem with cloak, I use it to escape and leave danger, or maybe sneak up and try to kill someone. You know how many times I die? Allot, I died so many times my kill counter said, "I was a Lover not a fighter".

And don't think I have never been ganked by another NB. I have many times, I hate when I spend 450g on a siege and a NB sneaks up and burns it.

People talk about about spamming cloak, well who does not use the same skill all the time? Sorcs have their pets to protect them, I get struck by whatever lightening skill they use and magical balls all the time. So spamming is not just cloaking.. its used on every single class.

I think people don't understand what the real problem is.. YOU CAN NOT FIGHT IN PVP OR IC ALONE. If you want to survive and win in PvP/IC you really need to be in large groups.

Just remember all you players out there that want to cry Nerf? Well ZOS does hear you but I almost guarantee if they Nerf cloak.. your not going to like it. The changes they make may affect one of your skills, or it could make one of your class skills OP. Then you will be in the same position I am; trying to defend your class.

What is really sad is, the people that are creating these topics are more than likely players that don't play allot. Players that want everything at once, they cry because they don't have enough CP because the person that has been working so hard to get to the top plays to much.

I see threads on this forum, that say "This forum is toxic". At first I thought they were crazy, but after reading deep into these types of discussions. I am now believing this place is toxic.

Hush don't you dare say anything about sorcerers. It's so weak compared to nightblades, no defense besides their shield which isn't even OP.

Look at the nightblades nerf them , with their cloakspamming. There is NO way for a poor sorcerer to break their cloak making it useless.

Let the sorcs spam their hardened ward with no regen/cost penalty and absorb/migate damage like tank-built characters while wearing skirts and a staff while putting out higher burst

Make cloak an ultimate and give NBs a classshield. Everybody happy.

If every class defends themselves with the same mechanic it's boring.
Nb should never get a class Shield or a strong heal, never. That's what cloak is for.
It's defense, escape and used to attack/counter the enemy without taking dmg directly to your health.

Well funnel health + sap is a stronger heal even when used on pvp target than anything resto staff has to offer apart from stacking healing springs.
I would not say that NB heals are weak AT ALL.

Ofc it´s the same mechanic/theory as with sorc heals. Be in stealth a bit tick up by funnel attack again.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

God ZOS game balance is hitting such dumb levels, why not add a update that makes heals,cloaks,shields rolls and everything else cost more per use....
CP and lack of caps are causing this not skills.

I could make a thread and complain about balance or CP and it could get 1000likes
Wouldnt change a thing.

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

You want to know what is really OP?

The sorcerer, maybe that is a topic of a new discussion but as far as NBs go. I personally don't think there is a problem with cloak, I use it to escape and leave danger, or maybe sneak up and try to kill someone. You know how many times I die? Allot, I died so many times my kill counter said, "I was a Lover not a fighter".

And don't think I have never been ganked by another NB. I have many times, I hate when I spend 450g on a siege and a NB sneaks up and burns it.

People talk about about spamming cloak, well who does not use the same skill all the time? Sorcs have their pets to protect them, I get struck by whatever lightening skill they use and magical balls all the time. So spamming is not just cloaking.. its used on every single class.

I think people don't understand what the real problem is.. YOU CAN NOT FIGHT IN PVP OR IC ALONE. If you want to survive and win in PvP/IC you really need to be in large groups.

Just remember all you players out there that want to cry Nerf? Well ZOS does hear you but I almost guarantee if they Nerf cloak.. your not going to like it. The changes they make may affect one of your skills, or it could make one of your class skills OP. Then you will be in the same position I am; trying to defend your class.

What is really sad is, the people that are creating these topics are more than likely players that don't play allot. Players that want everything at once, they cry because they don't have enough CP because the person that has been working so hard to get to the top plays to much.

I see threads on this forum, that say "This forum is toxic". At first I thought they were crazy, but after reading deep into these types of discussions. I am now believing this place is toxic.

Hush don't you dare say anything about sorcerers. It's so weak compared to nightblades, no defense besides their shield which isn't even OP.

Look at the nightblades nerf them , with their cloakspamming. There is NO way for a poor sorcerer to break their cloak making it useless.

Let the sorcs spam their hardened ward with no regen/cost penalty and absorb/migate damage like tank-built characters while wearing skirts and a staff while putting out higher burst

Make cloak an ultimate and give NBs a classshield. Everybody happy.

If every class defends themselves with the same mechanic it's boring.
Nb should never get a class Shield or a strong heal, never. That's what cloak is for.
It's defense, escape and used to attack/counter the enemy without taking dmg directly to your health.

Well funnel health + sap is a stronger heal even when used on pvp target than anything resto staff has to offer apart from stacking healing springs.
I would not say that NB heals are weak AT ALL.

I'm in love with Swallow Soul on my NB. It kicks off a ~1.5k HoT against PvP targets and 3k HoT against mobs. Non-crit values I may add. The animation is also almost non-existent on the target so half the time people don't know what they are taking damage from and from which direction.

It's cheaper than Rapid Regen (500 mana cost, hello!), offers double the heal and does very very decent damage (11k crits against mobs, ~5k crits against players).

It's an all around beast of skill imo. Would love it on my Sorc, it'd be the first skill on my bar along with Streak.

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

You want to know what is really OP?

The sorcerer, maybe that is a topic of a new discussion but as far as NBs go. I personally don't think there is a problem with cloak, I use it to escape and leave danger, or maybe sneak up and try to kill someone. You know how many times I die? Allot, I died so many times my kill counter said, "I was a Lover not a fighter".

And don't think I have never been ganked by another NB. I have many times, I hate when I spend 450g on a siege and a NB sneaks up and burns it.

People talk about about spamming cloak, well who does not use the same skill all the time? Sorcs have their pets to protect them, I get struck by whatever lightening skill they use and magical balls all the time. So spamming is not just cloaking.. its used on every single class.

I think people don't understand what the real problem is.. YOU CAN NOT FIGHT IN PVP OR IC ALONE. If you want to survive and win in PvP/IC you really need to be in large groups.

Just remember all you players out there that want to cry Nerf? Well ZOS does hear you but I almost guarantee if they Nerf cloak.. your not going to like it. The changes they make may affect one of your skills, or it could make one of your class skills OP. Then you will be in the same position I am; trying to defend your class.

What is really sad is, the people that are creating these topics are more than likely players that don't play allot. Players that want everything at once, they cry because they don't have enough CP because the person that has been working so hard to get to the top plays to much.

I see threads on this forum, that say "This forum is toxic". At first I thought they were crazy, but after reading deep into these types of discussions. I am now believing this place is toxic.

Hush don't you dare say anything about sorcerers. It's so weak compared to nightblades, no defense besides their shield which isn't even OP.

Look at the nightblades nerf them , with their cloakspamming. There is NO way for a poor sorcerer to break their cloak making it useless.

Let the sorcs spam their hardened ward with no regen/cost penalty and absorb/migate damage like tank-built characters while wearing skirts and a staff while putting out higher burst

Make cloak an ultimate and give NBs a classshield. Everybody happy.

If it scales of max stamina then sign me up Imagine the trolls with dodgerolling and a 9kish damage shield that absorbs magic and physical damage

Araxleon

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

I dont really agree with the bolded part above.

Every gap closer completely nullifies the use of Bolt Escape, they also costs less to cast and causes dmg.

Focused Charge + morphs 22m (templar)
Teleport Strike + morphs 22m (nightblade)
Critical Strike + morphs 22m (two-handed)
Shield Charge + morphs 22m (one-handed&shield)
*Dragon Leap 20-28m (dragonknight) ultimate

All these skills cover more distance than the 15m you travel with bolt escape.

The only thing is needed to counter bolt escape is decent reaction time + one of the gap closers listed above.

Speed buffs are also very effective to catch bolting sorcs because you loose momentum after each bolt. This makes movement with bolt escape + speed buff slower than expected/intended in addition to the huge magicka drain.

gap closers counter cloak already also (bringing you close + AOE)

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

SHIELDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN NERFED... shall I say it again? Shields are 50% less effective now. Shut. The. Hell. Up.

And dmg is nerfed too you know?oh wait maybe youre a sorc since dmg still insane for them maybe you dind't notice that.

some people dont realize they never really nerfed shields (aside from shield breaker set)

lol 50% less damage 50% less shield strength

some people are just sily ;P

Derra

Araxleon wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

I dont really agree with the bolded part above.

Every gap closer completely nullifies the use of Bolt Escape, they also costs less to cast and causes dmg.

Focused Charge + morphs 22m (templar)
Teleport Strike + morphs 22m (nightblade)
Critical Strike + morphs 22m (two-handed)
Shield Charge + morphs 22m (one-handed&shield)
*Dragon Leap 20-28m (dragonknight) ultimate

All these skills cover more distance than the 15m you travel with bolt escape.

The only thing is needed to counter bolt escape is decent reaction time + one of the gap closers listed above.

Speed buffs are also very effective to catch bolting sorcs because you loose momentum after each bolt. This makes movement with bolt escape + speed buff slower than expected/intended in addition to the huge magicka drain.

gap closers counter cloak already also (bringing you close + AOE)

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

SHIELDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN NERFED... shall I say it again? Shields are 50% less effective now. Shut. The. Hell. Up.

And dmg is nerfed too you know?oh wait maybe youre a sorc since dmg still insane for them maybe you dind't notice that.

some people dont realize they never really nerfed shields (aside from shield breaker set)

lol 50% less damage 50% less shield strength

some people are just sily ;P

And this coming from someone telling sorcs to man up and use alternate self defense mechanism.

Shield reduction in pvp was 15% dmg reduction was 20% in 1.6. So shields became 5% weaker compared to dmg right there. This continues with more effective ways to stack dmg than maxstat in 1.7 and results in shields being approximatly 20% less effective when compared to raw dmg numbers than they were in 1.6.
But thanks again for proving that you - the self proclaimed expert nightblade theorycrafter - know nothing.

vamp_emily

Funny how people think Cloaking is OP. Last night I was PvPing and died 11 times before I even got a kill. I was thinking my kill counter was off.

Bashev

vamp_emily wrote: »

Funny how people think Cloaking is OP. Last night I was PvPing and died 11 times before I even got a kill. I was thinking my kill counter was off.

Cloak is OP combined with shadow image.

vamp_emily

Bashev wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Funny how people think Cloaking is OP. Last night I was PvPing and died 11 times before I even got a kill. I was thinking my kill counter was off.

Cloak is OP combined with shadow image.

Well I never used shadow but I know I was trying to cloak the heck out of danger and could never get far before I had 10 EPs pounding on me.

Xeven

They nerfed shields 5%, bastion was nerfed, HW's 33% bonus no longer applies to outside cyrodiil values, and yep shield breaker. Shields were heavily nerfed @Araxleon.

If youre going to kill anyone, shield or not, you have to burst them, you know that. Spamming WB only works on scrubs. Shields are fine.

Tdroid

Some of the defense for Cloak is regarding a Stamblade, which I suppose is fair. They have little magicka and less regen, making their claking ability fairly manageable if pressed. But entering cloak more or less at any given time, like Magicka Nightblade can, is something of a problem for the overral balance for the game. Not so much for its escape ability, but more for its battlefield mobility and ganking benefits. Not to mentioned its DoT cleanse or guaranteed critical hit, plus the ability to aggro mobs onto your enemies.

My solution would be to make one of the cloaks stamina based, so all nightblades have roughly equal access to it, then to either give it diminishing returns on duration, diminishing returns for cost effectiveness or reduce regen when cloaked. That way Stamblades wouldn't be hurt any more by it than Magblades. It could even be possible to make these nerfs specific to the Imperial City, since the tight environments and mobs gives the cloaks a lot of versitility and power, while not nearly as much in the open fields of Cyrodiil.

Tdroid

melodeath wrote: »

i like how now another abbility is beeing decided to be messed with while the core issues are still at play..

how about return soft caps ?
how about remove cp system so theres is atleast a fair fight instead of the numerous times where 1 beats the other for simply having more cp (happends alot)

"Yes, please" to the return of soft caps and removing the CP system. Or at least reworking the CP system. It is far too powerful in general.

As an attachment to this idea, I would say that there should be some reward for getting through the soft cap and reaching a hard cap(say, a bonus % of crit chance or whatever), so that there could be some reason to go for it. But that it would also require sacrificing other stats.

revonine

The only realistic advantage I see is an easier time getting past the crap ton on NPCS ZOS stuffed into the city. Cloak was FIXED to working as intended since 1.6 but there was no issue that patch as players laughed as that poor pathetic NB tried to cloak away only for every single attack to pull him out of cloak again. There was no issue when it wasn't working properly funny how that is isn't it?
People are fooling themselves and jumping on hate trains I've seem this crap in every MMO I've ever played especially from that games forums. Why why do I keep taking part in MMO forums. Ignorance would have been bliss.

Master_Kas

Tdroid wrote: »

Some of the defense for Cloak is regarding a Stamblade, which I suppose is fair. They have little magicka and less regen, making their claking ability fairly manageable if pressed. But entering cloak more or less at any given time, like Magicka Nightblade can, is something of a problem for the overral balance for the game. Not so much for its escape ability, but more for its battlefield mobility and ganking benefits. Not to mentioned its DoT cleanse or guaranteed critical hit, plus the ability to aggro mobs onto your enemies.

My solution would be to make one of the cloaks stamina based, so all nightblades have roughly equal access to it, then to either give it diminishing returns on duration, diminishing returns for cost effectiveness or reduce regen when cloaked. That way Stamblades wouldn't be hurt any more by it than Magblades. It could even be possible to make these nerfs specific to the Imperial City, since the tight environments and mobs gives the cloaks a lot of versitility and power, while not nearly as much in the open fields of Cyrodiil.

This. Finally someone :<

LoreRiley

babanovac wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally I don't see what is wrong with escape mechanics. If a player cloaks or bolt-escapes away its probably because they are not very good at fighting anyway. If I can catch them, then great I get some TV stones, but if I don't then so what?

That's just the thing, NBs are the only ones left that have this escape mechanic. All the rest of the classes have to stay in the fight and die.

Also, if a player is not very good, he should die. Getting away in pvp is a skill in itself, and should not be reserved to a single class.

Im sorry but that is the dumbest logic ever. Nightblades are meant for stealth and escaping thats their core mech. If you wanted to get out of a fight you should just roll a NB or a Sorc.
There are so many *** counters but you guys are just too dumb to use em.

Magelight

Dks use Firebreath in the general direction and temps use puncturing sweeps simple and there are far more counters. You dont see me complaining about Sorc sheilds,DK Resistance or Temp heals. Thats because they are core mechanics exclusive to that class.

Cathexis

The best explanation I have heard for the problem is this:

Magicka nightblades currently have the ability to control when a fight begins AND when it ends, at any time, irrespective of counters.
This rationale was used to implement changes to bolt escape and it's morphs (yes it had counters too, you just didn't use them).
Subsequently, no other class now currently has this capacity.
The exact same rationale applies here: a class has the absolute capacity to dictate the terms of a fight, and it has been determined, by popular opinion, that that capacity is imbalanced.

Xeven

Cathexis wrote: »

The best explanation I have heard for the problem is this:

Magicka nightblades currently have the ability to control when a fight begins, and when it ends, irrespective of counters.
This rationale was used to implement changes to bolt escape and it's morphs (yes it had counters too, you just didn't use them).
Subsequently, no other class now currently has this capacity.
The exact same rationale applies here: a class has the absolute capacity to dictate the terms of a fight, and it has been determined, by popular opinion, that that capacity is imbalanced.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

I dont really agree with the bolded part above.

Every gap closer completely nullifies the use of Bolt Escape, they also costs less to cast and causes dmg.

Focused Charge + morphs 22m (templar)
Teleport Strike + morphs 22m (nightblade)
Critical Strike + morphs 22m (two-handed)
Shield Charge + morphs 22m (one-handed&shield)
*Dragon Leap 20-28m (dragonknight) ultimate

All these skills cover more distance than the 15m you travel with bolt escape.

The only thing is needed to counter bolt escape is decent reaction time + one of the gap closers listed above.

Speed buffs are also very effective to catch bolting sorcs because you loose momentum after each bolt. This makes movement with bolt escape + speed buff slower than expected/intended in addition to the huge magicka drain.

gap closers counter cloak already also (bringing you close + AOE)

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

SHIELDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN NERFED... shall I say it again? Shields are 50% less effective now. Shut. The. Hell. Up.

And dmg is nerfed too you know?oh wait maybe youre a sorc since dmg still insane for them maybe you dind't notice that.

some people dont realize they never really nerfed shields (aside from shield breaker set)

lol 50% less damage 50% less shield strength

some people are just sily ;P

And this coming from someone telling sorcs to man up and use alternate self defense mechanism.

Shield reduction in pvp was 15% dmg reduction was 20% in 1.6. So shields became 5% weaker compared to dmg right there. This continues with more effective ways to stack dmg than maxstat in 1.7 and results in shields being approximatly 20% less effective when compared to raw dmg numbers than they were in 1.6.
But thanks again for proving that you - the self proclaimed expert nightblade theorycrafter - know nothing.

they are still too strong,the only class other than Wb spammer that deal more than 5k dmg like nothing is the sorcerer and thanks too those shield they are still the top class,after cloak nerf WTB a change to shield thanks,before you say shieldbreaker no thanks that set is too situational and work well only with a bow and in my opinion still useless.

tennotsukai87

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

Actually, I do use mines, streak, and lightning form (3 ability bars). I'm not going to take up 2-3 slots on a lesser version of mage light. Hell, because of shield breaker, I now have to have an additional heal on my second bar. I don't use encase, but I will be looking into that. I'm sure that's not what will work though as liquid lightning probably covers just as much, if not more, area. Then again, I'm only speculating, since I've never used the spell but have seen it on videos. As for your other ideas, I'm magicka so using a stamina based ability would just mean death for me. Also, I did state I use detect potions; however, now that I've had enough time to get use to their quickslot location and use them efficiently I am still unable to find NBs using cloak. Honestly, I don't have a problem with fear, but that's just me.

kadar

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

revonine

The_Outsider wrote: »

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

Lol I don't see these gods either. I think I perform pretty well as a magblade but I don't cloak from opponent to opponent leaving a trail of death raking up their stones and sleeping with their wives (while cloaked).
I get my kills from outplaying my opponent now in this patch more than ever.

Derra

revonine wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

Lol I don't see these gods either. I think I perform pretty well as a magblade but I don't cloak from opponent to opponent leaving a trail of death raking up their stones and sleeping with their wives (while cloaked).
I get my kills from outplaying my opponent now in this patch more than ever.

Nobody believed the sorc when they said that. I don´t think anyone is going to believe the NB stating the same

Rittings

Dudes, just equip a skill that reveals hidden enemies. Problem solved.

Knootewoot

Cathexis wrote: »

The best explanation I have heard for the problem is this:

Magicka nightblades currently have the ability to control when a fight begins, and when it ends, irrespective of counters.
This rationale was used to implement changes to bolt escape and it's morphs (yes it had counters too, you just didn't use them).
Subsequently, no other class now currently has this capacity.
The exact same rationale applies here: a class has the absolute capacity to dictate the terms of a fight, and it has been determined, by popular opinion, that that capacity is imbalanced.

Every class can control when a fight begins. Just stealth and wait for someone to walk by and attack.

Many people already said it.. cloak is OP.. if combined with shadow. Or you could say.. cloak is not OP because not everyone wants or uses shadow. Then they say.. if you not use shadow you don't use your class abilities right (as if everyone NB should use shadow). So basically... cloak is not OP.. it's shadow.

So keep cloak as it is and nerf shadow.

kadar

Derra wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

Lol I don't see these gods either. I think I perform pretty well as a magblade but I don't cloak from opponent to opponent leaving a trail of death raking up their stones and sleeping with their wives (while cloaked).
I get my kills from outplaying my opponent now in this patch more than ever.

Nobody believed the sorc when they said that. I don´t think anyone is going to believe the NB stating the same

No one believed Sorcs because in their case, it wasn't true. This is a case of, "My skill got nerfed, and you have a strong skill. Therefore your skill should be nerfed TOO." This is a toxic mentality for a game with so many underlying problems already. A more comparable nerf was BE to Roll Dodge. Not BE to Cloak.

ZOS may nerf cloak, but they will take 3 years to do it. By the time they get around to it, everyone will have learned to effectively counter cloak with the many counters ZOS has already give us (like many people are already doing). Then the nerf will hit. "Oh no ZOS! Why you nerf Cloak! We actually realized that it wasn't so OP in the first place, now the skill is useless!"

I wish ZOS believed in balance tweaks instead of the NERF HAMMER OF THOR (dramatic effect intended).

Bashev

The_Outsider wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

Lol I don't see these gods either. I think I perform pretty well as a magblade but I don't cloak from opponent to opponent leaving a trail of death raking up their stones and sleeping with their wives (while cloaked).
I get my kills from outplaying my opponent now in this patch more than ever.

Nobody believed the sorc when they said that. I don´t think anyone is going to believe the NB stating the same

No one believed Sorcs because in their case, it wasn't true. This is a case of, "My skill got nerfed, and you have a strong skill. Therefore your skill should be nerfed TOO." This is a toxic mentality for a game with so many underlying problems already. A more comparable nerf was BE to Roll Dodge. Not BE to Cloak.

ZOS may nerf cloak, but they will take 3 years to do it. By the time they get around to it, everyone will have learned to effectively counter cloak with the many counters ZOS has already give us (like many people are already doing). Then the nerf will hit. "Oh no ZOS! Why you nerf Cloak! We actually realized that it wasn't so OP in the first place, now the skill is useless!"

I wish ZOS believed in balance tweaks instead of the NERF HAMMER OF THOR (dramatic effect intended).

You can add the same logic to already nerfed DK skills talons and reflected scales.

kadar

Bashev wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I sincerely hope I encounter these legendary Magicka NBs described in this thread (I might learn things). They who can perform such spectacular feats of strength solely because of the OP-ness of Cloak ability. They who dance in and out of combat without taking any damage. Mercilessly killing all opponents without chance for counter play.

Meanwhile the MNBs I see in the real world typically fall to your basic counters. Even when they do escape it's no big cause they can't do any damage. ..

Lol I don't see these gods either. I think I perform pretty well as a magblade but I don't cloak from opponent to opponent leaving a trail of death raking up their stones and sleeping with their wives (while cloaked).
I get my kills from outplaying my opponent now in this patch more than ever.

Nobody believed the sorc when they said that. I don´t think anyone is going to believe the NB stating the same

No one believed Sorcs because in their case, it wasn't true. This is a case of, "My skill got nerfed, and you have a strong skill. Therefore your skill should be nerfed TOO." This is a toxic mentality for a game with so many underlying problems already. A more comparable nerf was BE to Roll Dodge. Not BE to Cloak.

ZOS may nerf cloak, but they will take 3 years to do it. By the time they get around to it, everyone will have learned to effectively counter cloak with the many counters ZOS has already give us (like many people are already doing). Then the nerf will hit. "Oh no ZOS! Why you nerf Cloak! We actually realized that it wasn't so OP in the first place, now the skill is useless!"

I wish ZOS believed in balance tweaks instead of the NERF HAMMER OF THOR (dramatic effect intended).

You can add the same logic to already nerfed DK skills talons and reflected scales.

"This is a toxic mentality for a game with so many underlying problems already."

dodgehopper_ESO

Based on nb passives, cloak is also the "nb rune focus". I play a templar as my main, and i think this proposal is bad. I do think that all classes and abilities ought to be eventually duplicatable between guild skills and spellcrafting. That type of change would really continue the flavor of past tes games.