Sorc 1.6 Discussion

tunepunk

Joy_Division wrote: »

- Surge is now an absolute disaster. I get it that RPGs have always had a spell that made wizards good with swords, but there should have always been the option to make surge what the mythology of a sorcerer actually is: an overflow of MAGIC that the caster cannot really control (i.e. makes spells powerful but interesting side effects). Let's not even talk about the idiocy of a heal potentially procing off an impulse dot and thus invalidating everything else during the cooldown...

If you can't survive without Old Crit surge you're playing wrong.

I don't think Sorcerers should be able to charge in and outheal incoming damage while getting beaten on by a mass of foes, while spamming AOE skills.

Pre 1.6 tactic -
1. Apply Crit surge
2. Charge in and make sure to pull as many foes as possible.
3. Dont bother blocking.
4. Spam favorite area AOE skill
5. Win

Post 1.6 tactic
1. Apply crit surge.
2. Use ranged attacks/spells
3. if enemies get close. streak out or CC them in place (stay away from getting hit)
4. Rinse & repeat
5. Win

If it's not enough you're getting hit too often. Try not to get hit and It should be enough.

Taonnor

All other classes can still do pre 1.6.

In connection with champion points grind, is this fair?

tunepunk

Yep it's fair. Distance & CC utilities is your friend.

I've been playing Post 1.6 tactic even before 1.6 was released with great success. Try it out.

Can kill a group of enemies just as fast as spamming close range AOE, or even better since I'm not usually getting hit.

If you were to play PvP i guess you would still have the upper hand if you fight people who rely on being close to you to make any substatial damage.

As i said distance is your friend. Or build differently to evade, mitigate, and block more damage at close range.

kkampaseb17_ESO

@tunepunk, And what about stamina sorcs that do not have access to Hardened Ward/Steadfast Ward spell due to limited magicka pool AND the fact that some of them are close range? Have you ever through of the impact in PvP?

Aletheion

In a different thread (the one about 1.6 being the nail in the coffin for sorcs here), Gina said:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone. While we aren’t quite ready to discuss all the changes and improvements going into Update 6, we can tell you that many of these changes will specifically address the concerns brought up in this thread. Our primary goal is that regardless of your class and build, you can feel like you can be competitive in the archetype you want to play as.

Here's hoping they revert the heals on Critical Surge to drop the cooldown and have the heals along with both Spell power and Weapon power buffs - and fine, limit to the first 6 targets hit.

Maybe someone will identify a good build that isn't ridiculous like sorcs going around in heavy armor wielding 2 handed swords like they are an Imperial Knight or some such thing...

-Aletheion

ToRelax

tunepunk wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

- Surge is now an absolute disaster. I get it that RPGs have always had a spell that made wizards good with swords, but there should have always been the option to make surge what the mythology of a sorcerer actually is: an overflow of MAGIC that the caster cannot really control (i.e. makes spells powerful but interesting side effects). Let's not even talk about the idiocy of a heal potentially procing off an impulse dot and thus invalidating everything else during the cooldown...

If you can't survive without Old Crit surge you're playing wrong.

I don't think Sorcerers should be able to charge in and outheal incoming damage while getting beaten on by a mass of foes, while spamming AOE skills.

Pre 1.6 tactic -
1. Apply Crit surge
2. Charge in and make sure to pull as many foes as possible.
3. Dont bother blocking.
4. Spam favorite area AOE skill
5. Win

Post 1.6 tactic
1. Apply crit surge.
2. Use ranged attacks/spells
3. if enemies get close. streak out or CC them in place (stay away from getting hit)
4. Rinse & repeat
5. Win

If it's not enough you're getting hit too often. Try not to get hit and It should be enough.

I'll fix that for you:

Pre 1.6 tactic -
1. Apply Crit surge
2. Charge in and make sure to pull as many foes as possible.
3. Use Immovable and/or Absorbtion Field
4. Dont bother blocking.
5. Spam favorite area AOE skill
6. Win

Post 1.6 tactic
1. Apply Entropy and Regeneration
2. Use ranged attacks/spells
3. if enemies get close. streak out or CC them in place (stay away from getting hit)
4. Rinse & repeat
5. Win

Any thought about PvP btw? That's where youa re fighting other classes who have class selfheals, you know?

gendarkb16_ESO

Dazin93 wrote: »

In my opinion, crit surge is not a viable skill anymore in PvP in its current form. Playing as a stamina sorc I could previously utilize it with critical rush and stack weapon power with rally. It wasn't ideal by any means, but still worth a slot.

Now, the combination of crit % reduction on armor sets and armor passives, the 1 sec delay, flawless dawnbreaker nerf, and the reduction in critical damage, have made it a shadow of what it was. Heals in the 80-100 range are pitiful and can easily be outdone by entropy and rally.

To add insult to injury, I can pop a vr5 weapon damage potion and get the same weapon power buff as crit surge on a longer time with 2 other added benefits.

THISSS

i am also a stamina sorcerer using a 2h.... surge went from usefull (if you had luck and nobody blocked you) to utter crap ... why use surge when rally does the same but better and last more. WHY USE SURGE when a stamina potion does the same ....

Zenimax you screwed surge in so many ways not only for magicka users, for stamina users too.

tunepunk

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

@tunepunk, And what about stamina sorcs that do not have access to Hardened Ward/Steadfast Ward spell due to limited magicka pool AND the fact that some of them are close range? Have you ever through of the impact in PvP?

I play stamina sorcerer myself. I don't see any reason why i need to change anything in my builds for 1.6

Pre 1.6
My main is Sorceror with bow. Using Bombard to keep enemies at range and an occational streak if needed. Both of them do a bit of AOE damage as well. Tactic still works well in 1.6 almost never get hit and does a lot of damage. I even do VR public dungeons solo as well as VR bosses and VR public dungeon bosses.

I do go melee range as well with 2nd bar, where you have 2 options. Mitigate damage (1 hand and shield). or Evade incoming damage.

One thing i found out about Sorcerer is that Opposing spec seems beneficial sometimes. Let me explain:

If you rely on Stamina to survive. Speccing low stamina but high regen rate using medium armor. Since most CC breaks, blocks, running, roll dodge seem to drain a percentage rather than a fixed number high regen rate is beneficial with a low pool. Go all in for High Magicka pool and good some good damage spells instead of wasting it on stamina skills. Even if you equip a melee weapon or bow, damage output of light and heavy attacks will not benefit much from a High stamina pool, if at all. Maybe equip a useful stamina based utility skill to use once in a while, but that's it.

Since they removed soft caps and deminishing returns this should work even better now.

ToRelax

tunepunk wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

@tunepunk, And what about stamina sorcs that do not have access to Hardened Ward/Steadfast Ward spell due to limited magicka pool AND the fact that some of them are close range? Have you ever through of the impact in PvP?

Pre 1.6
My main is Sorceror with bow. Using Bombard to keep enemies at range and an occational streak if needed. Both of them do a bit of AOE damage as well. Tactic still works well in 1.6 almost never get hit and does a lot of damage. I even do VR public dungeons solo as well as VR bosses and VR public dungeon bosses.

I do go melee range as well with 2nd bar, where you have 2 options. Mitigate damage (1 hand and shield). or Evade incoming damage.

Sorry, but low vet PvE and questing is really not the point at all.

If it comes to class balance, first the PvE endgame content and the PvP must be balanced.

tunepunk

ToRelax wrote: »

Sorry, but low vet PvE and questing is really not the point at all.

If it comes to class balance, first the PvE endgame content and the PvP must be balanced.

So what's unbalanced? Survivability? DPS output? CC & utility skills, healing?

I don't see any reason why you can't optimise your sorcerer build to be good in any of those?

I believe changing your playstyle to fit the skills is better than changing skills to fit the playstyle. Otherwize chose a class that has the skills that will allow you to play the way you want.

NotSo

Yeah but it sucks having a particular playstyle kicked in the nuts.

tunepunk

NotSo wrote: »

Yeah but it sucks having a particular playstyle kicked in the nuts.

I agree. I would much rather have them change my favorite skill to work the way i want to instead of making a new character... but hey.. that's life.

Let's hope spellcrafting will add some more flavour in the future.

xherics

Spellcrafting = 2018 = maybe...

tunepunk

ToRelax wrote: »

Any thought about PvP btw? That's where youa re fighting other classes who have class selfheals, you know?

I don't know. I think there are many ways to overcome. If your opponent is outhealing your DPS, make him less efficient at healing. If his self heals are stamina based, drain his Stamina, if they are magicka based, drain his stamina. It's really hard to outheal anything if you can't block or break CC, or is out of resources no matter what class you're playing.

If you lack self heals. Invest in Mitigation, health regen, Evade, keep distance, adjust your playstyle & skills to lose as little health as possible.
Additionaly.... Investigate which set bonuses, traits & glyphs can provide the healing that your skills cant?

If your opponent is using the majority of his resources for survival he's not gonna use a lot of resources to damage you.

Seems pretty fair to me.

olsborg

[*] Rune Cage: This ability will no longer break due to damage over time. Each rank of Rune Cage now increases the disorient duration.
[*] Weakening Prison: This ability now puts an aura of protection on you that lasts for one minute. The first player character to attack you during that one minute will be put in a Rune Prison. Each additional rank increases the duration of the aura by 20 seconds.[/list]

This will still be useless in pvp.




[*] Daedric Mines

• Increased the damage of all ranks and morphs to 150.
• All boss monsters and any monster with boss immunities will be immune to damage from this ability for one second after being affected by a Daedric Mine.

Increased dmg by how much compared to what? huh? Please elaborate.


[*] Surge

• This ability now applies the Major Brutality buff.
• Power Surge: This ability now applies the Major Brutality and Major Sorcery buffs.
• Critical Surge: This ability now has a one second cooldown on the heal.
  
  Ehm, terrible change there. Please revert it back...or something.
  
  Also, the twilight having less hp? thats not exactly what it needed, quite the contrary!

sniserb16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

ONE piece of good news: The "instant" proc on Crystal Shards is now actually instant. It is, I used it several times. How that didn't make the patch notes I'll never know.

It is pretty clear ZoS does not comprehend the current 1.5 Meta that recognizes sorcs are in a bad place. My personal theory is that when they had their big guild summit, the sorc was not quite seen as merely a "negate" monkey and thus was not informed just how lacking the sorc was until after many of 1.6 changes were already undertaken.

The class really needs an overhaul because so many problems plague it:

- Pets should *never* have been a toggle with the scarcity of skills we are allowed to slot. At the very least there should have been a cheap disposable summons ala Skyrim available as an option.

- Surge is now an absolute disaster. I get it that RPGs have always had a spell that made wizards good with swords, but there should have always been the option to make surge what the mythology of a sorcerer actually is: an overflow of MAGIC that the caster cannot really control (i.e. makes spells powerful but interesting side effects). Let's not even talk about the idiocy of a heal potentially procing off an impulse dot and thus invalidating everything else during the cooldown...

- Mines and encase suffer from high cost / underwhelming effect syndrome. From what I understand of the notes, bosses now gain immunity to mines after setting one off. As if the skill wasn't bad enough. I'm am guessing they did so because someone submitted a joke /feedback that the a group killed the Mantikora in SO by using well placed daedric mines and ZoS took this seriously...

- Sorcs skills tend to be so underwhelming that Sorcs seek alternatives from other skill lines. Spell symmetry instead of dark exchange. Impulse instead of Lightning Flood. Crushing shock instead of deadric curse. Crushing shock is still better (or at least more versatile) than curse and trial sorcs will still spell sym rather than dark exchange. The jury is still out on lightning flood.

None of this means one is incapable of playing a sorc, having fun, and completing end-game content. But doing so is kind of like playing the black pieces in chess...the player is accepting a disadvantage for doing so.

I fully agree with you mate. I think is time to quit or reroll

OtarTheMad

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Can we please have some well-written feedback from a good PvP sorc on 1.6 changes concerning PvP, rather than AoE craglorn mobs?

EU players don't have their characters uploaded this week so...I cannot do it myself...

I can try to help considering I PvP'd with my Sorc yesterday and it's all I really do in the live server with him.

I think right now it's too small of a sample to judge how effective Sorcerer's will be in PvP as yesterday was mainly small scale PvP with most people probably not grouping and just fighting randomly in fields.

I can tell you that if you run an offensive Sorc with two Destro staffs then you are in trouble fighting someone one-on-one because you really have no self-heal. Carry a restro staff and that will solve the problem by just simply putting Combat Prayer or one of the other skills on the bar. I have mine on my second bar.

Too early to tell how important Impen is on your gear, how many you should have and what other trait is better. I would say you need to get as much crit as humanly possible however. Right now Pre-1.6 my Sorc (with Inner Light) had about 54% spell crit. In the PTS server (again with Inner Light) I have just 42% spell crit... with the same set up. Some abilities give you more spell crit with the new buffs called Major and Minor Prophecy (Minor= 3% and Major=10%)

I would say toy around with your bars, see what skills work together better because even though not many things changed for Sorc, you have to almost work a little harder to make the class not seem so underpowered. Magicka Detonation (new AvA ability) is nice to run on your bar but is not the zerg killer it was said to be and is a little underwhelming.

The changes to Destructive Reach, Daedric Curse and some other skills like Degeneration and Impulse give you a reason to try them on your bar and maybe swap out a skill that didn't get that big of a buff. Also the buff to Meteor makes it pretty much the best offensive Ultimate a Sorc can use. Streak or Ball of Lightning (Bolt Escape) is also more important than ever in PvP for a Sorc as you'll need to get out of bad situations really quick since you're a little squisher in light armor than before. Have one or two shields on your bar like Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka to help you out. I only have one because I am trying to go more offensive and need the space.

I hope this helps.

Pixelex

Can someone on the PTS post the new Destructive Touch description? This should be a dot-spell now.

Perhaps we now can be dot sorcerers with this new skill and the 20% more damage degeneration ticks.
This would be so great!! Degeneration, Detructive Touch, Elemental Blockade.. perhaps soul trap. Tick, tick, tick.. YAY!

Black_Wolf88

xherics wrote: »

ZOS, i have to ASK! Are you joking to NERF to die the SORC class?

Why no healing with spell damage on SURGE? Selfheal only with STAMINA weapon? Spell buff only, when no self-heal? Why? Do you want to delete sorc from the game at all? This change is unacceptable) Sorc was the worse class already, why do you nerfing it more and more and more?
Until now we had at least self-healing, we were able to solo content, but after this change it will be not possible properly...

Sorc needs to use STAFF for making DPS, STAFF is based on SPELL damage! With this change, SORC HAS NO SELF-HEAL ABILITY!
And do not mention the cooldown of healing and also crit % nerf... With all of these nerfs, SORC will be weaker than BEFORE!

I can imagine the sorc surge like this, but no other way and I think, everybody can say the same:

Surge = "heal on crit" (without cooldown!) OR "weapon buff AND spell buff"
Power surge = heal on crit + weapon buff (without cooldown!) - costs stamina
Spell surge = heal on crit + spell buff (without cooldown!) - costs magicka




@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

completely agree. with this big nerf they can just delete the sorc class entirely. would make it a lot easier for everyone as we dont have to waste time in game dying 100s of times trying to compete with other classes. our dps were on the low side in 1.5 compared to nb and dk, now it seem like dps is gone along with any way to possibly staying alive for more than 10 sec.

to be forced to use resto staff on 2nd bar for healing is really insulting as all other classes have self heal in their class skill line. forcing us to have resto staff on 2nd bar will limit our possibilities in both solo and group content.

xherics

Pixelex wrote: »

Can someone on the PTS post the new Destructive Touch description? This should be a dot-spell now.

Perhaps we now can be dot sorcerers with this new skill and the 20% more damage degeneration ticks.
This would be so great!! Degeneration, Detructive Touch, Elemental Blockade.. perhaps soul trap. Tick, tick, tick.. YAY!

5 sec DoT only

Pixelex

Thank you @xherics‌. Well, thats short. .___.''

Fruity_Ninja

Derra wrote: »

(Power)surge is now completely pointless for magica builds. Why would you use it for a spellpower buff when you can use entropy for the same buff + dmg + mages guild passives?
The only application for powersurge right now is on a hybrid build? Completely pointless skill imho.

Nice on the nerf for criticalsurge. Completely related to pvp that one and majorly screwing pve sorcs.

So entropy makes up the same spellpower buff as Power Surge?

I didn't check that out actually, I might have to. Do they stack with each other as well?

Kilandros

tunepunk wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

- Surge is now an absolute disaster. I get it that RPGs have always had a spell that made wizards good with swords, but there should have always been the option to make surge what the mythology of a sorcerer actually is: an overflow of MAGIC that the caster cannot really control (i.e. makes spells powerful but interesting side effects). Let's not even talk about the idiocy of a heal potentially procing off an impulse dot and thus invalidating everything else during the cooldown...

If you can't survive without Old Crit surge you're playing wrong.

I don't think Sorcerers should be able to charge in and outheal incoming damage while getting beaten on by a mass of foes, while spamming AOE skills.

Pre 1.6 tactic -
1. Apply Crit surge
2. Charge in and make sure to pull as many foes as possible.
3. Dont bother blocking.
4. Spam favorite area AOE skill
5. Win

Post 1.6 tactic
1. Apply crit surge.
2. Use ranged attacks/spells
3. if enemies get close. streak out or CC them in place (stay away from getting hit)
4. Rinse & repeat
5. Win

If it's not enough you're getting hit too often. Try not to get hit and It should be enough.

I seriously hate these "Just play ranged and don't get hit" posts.

Not everyone wants to play a Destro/Resto Sorc.

angelyn

tunepunk wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

TLDR my build changes in 1.6:
Pros
• I can hit more targets with my AOE
• A number of skills will boost max magicka instead of reducing it.
• Due to the above my spell damage will increase.

Cons
• Crit surge will no longer heal me effectively.
• I will not generate ultimate on my AOE bar unless I start to weave single attacks in
• It will be harder for me to generate ultimate overall as even my single target spells/abilities will no longer generate ultimate.
• Armor and armour spells provide less spell resistance and armour protection than before. I will be more vulnerable.

I envision I will put less stat points into Magicka, since some skills now buff it. Instead I will put those stat points into health to make up for Crit surge changes.

Who knows? I may even try out a pet build!

Its quite clear they are trying to stop AOE spam builds. Critical surge works a bit like momentum. Damage boost and some heal. I never heard anyone complain that the heal part of momentum doesn't scale depending on how many enemies you are fighting. I think its a good decision that will force sorcerers to use a bit more finesse to survive instead of spamming AOE. Pre 1.6 critical surge would make it easier to survive the more enemies you could hit making you less likely to die the more targets you hit.

The same goes for ultimate generation. I don't see any reason skill spammers should get more ultimate than others.

Yeah you're really awesome. You used to take on 10 enemies at once without any skill or finesse whatsoever. Just head in and spam your AOE. Im happy those kind of builds will just be a memory.

ZOE are clearly targeting overpowered, and thereby overrepresented builds that were never intended. These builds formed from using super efficient skill combinations. And will be a problem for update 7 also. People will theorycraft and tweak new builds until they find new slightly more overpowered setups.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if as you say ZOS are trying to stop AOE being so effective, why have they not put a 1 second cooldown on every AOE that heals players in the game? Instead of just focusing on one class?

Also you may hate this build, but my build never personally affected anyone. As I said earlier, pvp is not my thing. I understand there needs to be balance, but as a PVE player my number one skill crit surge is now useless, when it used to help with DPS and take pressure off the healer in groups.

That means I will now probably only use 2 out of all the sorcerer skills. I've not tested the rest, but lets hope that some of the sorcerer skills are more viable after 1.6. so that more skills will become effective for whichever role you play.

The reason why sorcerers rely so heavily on crit surge, is because the rest of the class skills weren't competitive enough to compete with say, dps of other classes. I would have loved to try out a pet build and was sorely dissapointed that it didn't provide adequate dps in group situations.

I also didn't like the fact that I have to weave light attacks into single target, simply to cancel an animation and become competitive with my measly dps compared to other classes. I picked the class, but was pigeon holed into a build since as a magicka sorcerer the main option for DPS is -crit surge plus elemental ring for AOE, and crit surge+elemental drain+crushing shock+light attacks for single target.

I for one welcome build diversity and sincerely hope that with update 6 there will be more options for both magicka and stamina sorcerers, so that we aren't pigeon holed into one build/one weapon as it's the only one that remotely provides same dps/healing/tanking as any other class.

Regarding ultimate generation- ALL players will be affected by this change, not just the "skill spammers" that you mentioned. I was merely pointing out that weaving in single target weapon attacks when dealing with multiple enemies doesn't seem like sound logic to me. Any player who currently has an AOE bar and a single target bar will now need to weave single target weapon attacks in,regardless of if they are fighting multiple/single enemies. I personally don't like the weapon attacks of staves(which I use) as they are so slow and clunky. I can't be the only player who thinks there should be a weapon attack that hits multiple targets and isn't a weapon skill,due to the change in ultimate generation.

Sarcasm and insults are not constructive. I don't see why you think you have the right to be sarcastic to and insult other forum users, whilst generally using a hostile tone in your comments. My comment was balanced, positive and pointed out both the pros and the cons of how my current build will need to change.

I'm not sure how many sorcerers would agree with you saying that no finesse is required to play and survive as one. I for one sure as hell found some of the other classes easier to play when I re rolled some alts. However, I still want to play a sorc and I think it needs a little attention. There are many skills in the sorcerer tree that are interesting and exciting, however until they provide more/equal dps/healing/tankiness to weapon/world/guild skills available to us, and still be equal/better than other classes- no one will use them.

Kilandros

angelyn wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

angelyn wrote: »

TLDR my build changes in 1.6:
Pros
• I can hit more targets with my AOE
• A number of skills will boost max magicka instead of reducing it.
• Due to the above my spell damage will increase.

Cons
• Crit surge will no longer heal me effectively.
• I will not generate ultimate on my AOE bar unless I start to weave single attacks in
• It will be harder for me to generate ultimate overall as even my single target spells/abilities will no longer generate ultimate.
• Armor and armour spells provide less spell resistance and armour protection than before. I will be more vulnerable.

I envision I will put less stat points into Magicka, since some skills now buff it. Instead I will put those stat points into health to make up for Crit surge changes.

Who knows? I may even try out a pet build!

Its quite clear they are trying to stop AOE spam builds. Critical surge works a bit like momentum. Damage boost and some heal. I never heard anyone complain that the heal part of momentum doesn't scale depending on how many enemies you are fighting. I think its a good decision that will force sorcerers to use a bit more finesse to survive instead of spamming AOE. Pre 1.6 critical surge would make it easier to survive the more enemies you could hit making you less likely to die the more targets you hit.

The same goes for ultimate generation. I don't see any reason skill spammers should get more ultimate than others.

Yeah you're really awesome. You used to take on 10 enemies at once without any skill or finesse whatsoever. Just head in and spam your AOE. Im happy those kind of builds will just be a memory.

ZOE are clearly targeting overpowered, and thereby overrepresented builds that were never intended. These builds formed from using super efficient skill combinations. And will be a problem for update 7 also. People will theorycraft and tweak new builds until they find new slightly more overpowered setups.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if as you say ZOS are trying to stop AOE being so effective, why have they not put a 1 second cooldown on every AOE that heals players in the game? Instead of just focusing on one class?

Also you may hate this build, but my build never personally affected anyone. As I said earlier, pvp is not my thing. I understand there needs to be balance, but as a PVE player my number one skill crit surge is now useless, when it used to help with DPS and take pressure off the healer in groups.

That means I will now probably only use 2 out of all the sorcerer skills. I've not tested the rest, but lets hope that some of the sorcerer skills are more viable after 1.6. so that more skills will become effective for whichever role you play.

The reason why sorcerers rely so heavily on crit surge, is because the rest of the class skills weren't competitive enough to compete with say, dps of other classes. I would have loved to try out a pet build and was sorely dissapointed that it didn't provide adequate dps in group situations.

I also didn't like the fact that I have to weave light attacks into single target, simply to cancel an animation and become competitive with my measly dps compared to other classes. I picked the class, but was pigeon holed into a build since as a magicka sorcerer the main option for DPS is -crit surge plus elemental ring for AOE, and crit surge+elemental drain+crushing shock+light attacks for single target.

I for one welcome build diversity and sincerely hope that with update 6 there will be more options for both magicka and stamina sorcerers, so that we aren't pigeon holed into one build/one weapon as it's the only one that remotely provides same dps/healing/tanking as any other class.

Sarcasm and insults are not constructive. I don't see why you think you have the right to be sarcastic to and insult other forum users, whilst generally using a hostile tone in your comments. My comment was balanced, positive and pointed out both the pros and the cons of how my current build will need to change.

I'm not sure how many sorcerers would agree with you saying that no finesse is required to play and survive as one. I for one sure as hell found some of the other classes easier to play when I re rolled some alts. However, I still want to play a sorc and I think it needs a little attention. There are many skills in the sorcerer tree that are interesting and exciting, however until they provide more/equal dps/healing/tankiness to weapon/world/guild skills available to us, and still be equal/better than other classes- no one will use them.

I don't think anyone in this thread agrees with tunepunk. Don't waste your time with people who are basically making "L2P" posts.

Iselin

So I gather the Inner Light + Critical Surge + Elemental Ring + Immovable AOE build was deemed to still not be nerfed enough so they just targeted it for extinction with this patch because it's inherently evil?

Fruity_Ninja

Kilandros wrote: »

I don't think anyone in this thread agrees with tunepunk. Don't waste your time with people who are basically making "L2P" posts.

Don't forget the bit about "in every single thread where Crit Surge/Power Surge is being discussed as a topic"

Maulkin

Iselin wrote: »

So I gather the Inner Light + Critical Surge + Elemental Ring + Immovable AOE build was deemed to still not be nerfed enough so they just targeted it for extinction with this patch because it's inherently evil?

That build was to them like Molag Grunda, the illegitimate child of Molag Bal and Brenda from Beverly Hills 90210, so they are killing it with fire.

indigoblades

I felt my 1.6 build was much weaker and I have been playing without crit surge for a while in anticipation of 1.6 and also because in pvp i dont expect to crit heal much anyway with all the impenetrable. I do use power surge on some builds sometimes to boost wpn damage.

I found both my 1.5 magika and stam sorc builds to be weaker, testing against mobs in crag. My damage was lower i felt and sustain was much worse. I haven't tried any add-ons in PTS and with out FTC and Wykkyd showing info, its only qualitative feeling. Crag Spellcar is where i all ways test my builds. If i can solo the mobs without relying on an ult i am comfortable. My magika build had to run from mobs, she just couldnt handle them solo.


Again, With out any champ points invested and without changing my mix of magika / health /stam i felt much weaker, especially my magika resto/destro build. Before 1.6 my magika build could just barely solo spellcar (with no crit surge AOE, but in emergencys i would need to fall back to bat swarm to heal.) My, Stam 2H/resto or 2H/duel weld, build can still solo crag mobs but less easily and whitestrakes saved me alot. (i use 2H Brawler for shield and lightning form and hardened ward.... resto or duel weld with entropy on other bar )

Both builds had about 2600 health.

Magika build
( either all light or 5 light / 2 med ) and magika close to soft cap, seducer for spell reduction and about any 3 bonus that helps magicka and 3 soul shine jewelry, fire resist, 2 x magic cost.. this build has done best for me in pvp. i think it does better at pvp because i can stay at range not because it is that much better of a build than the stam build. Unless i am doing vet group dungeons where people need me to maximize dps, pve is so easy that pve optimaztion thru crit surge & mage light doesnt matter too me, id rather practice my pvp skills because i am still learning pvp at pvp rank 12.

Resto on bar 1: [Healing springs (more for pvp)] [Bolt escape morph] [Healing Ward] [mutegin or rapid regin] [Hardened Ward]
Destro on bar 2: [Aoe or shards] [bolt escape morph] [Force shock] [Power surge ] [Harden Ward ]


Stam build
( i call stam build, buts really hybrid, stam is about 200-400 higher than magicka) (all magika enchants changed to stam) 5 med/2 light - 5 piece whitestrakes bonus for low health shields, any 3 bonus that helps stam and 3 soul shine jewelry, fire resist, reduce stam & mag cost. i think this build would do better with even more stam, but if changed my attributes i could not play the same char with magicka.

Bar 1 same resto or for Aoe i Dual weld [Entropy or Duel weld skill] [Bolt escape] [Steel Tornado] [Power Surge ] [imovable or harden ward or lightning form]
Bar 2 [crit rush or lightning form (fast morph)] [bolt escape] [BRAWLER] [RALLY] [Hardened Ward]

On my bar 1 I keep overload on to have access to 3rd bar with mages fury and vel curse (cant be reflected in pvp) ,either morph of equilibrium, bolt escape or the fast form of lightning form and rapid regin or other pvp utilitys.

Again i couldnt see the numbers but sustain on either build was worse, my previous play style was very dependantly on shields which seem different now... dmg seemed worse i felt. i did try entropy with no morph, but that and rapids couldn't keep my sorc healed. The stam build can build enough shields with cleave to just sustain if lightning form armor stays up. I found shields to much less effective in 1.6. Before 1.6 it seemed like shields took almost all the damage before health dropped and in 1.6 my heath was dropping fast.

Lately, I have been frantically leveling my DK alt whom has gone from level 17 to 38 and seems so OP i may switch. When the DK has just rally, GDB and cleave, they can kill & out sustain my sorc with a full skill bar easily. That leaves them 7 slots to put other attacks weapons, shields, heals, aoe and utilities..... i cant see 1.6 making those skills much worse so it looks like i dont see much of a future for my sorc unless i theory craft a pet build which tho maybe more powerful in 1.6 pve, i dont see it useful in pvp, until pets stealth and pets dont take up most of your bar.

[EDIT, i just removed bolt escape and added the Degeneration morph of entropy, which heals on all weapon attacks. With that, my stam sorc was much stronger than 1.5 due to plenty of healing. i havent tested it on Magika sorc tho. Still it perterbs me some because the only sorc skills i am using on the stam sorc if i dont run the overload bar are boundless storm, hardened ward and streak. The overload bar adds mages fury. i might have enough healing now to drop the resto tho or make the resto/desto viable, needs more testing.]

Iselin

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

So I gather the Inner Light + Critical Surge + Elemental Ring + Immovable AOE build was deemed to still not be nerfed enough so they just targeted it for extinction with this patch because it's inherently evil?

That build was to them like Molag Grunda, the illegitimate child of Molag Bal and Brenda from Beverly Hills 90210, so they are killing it with fire.

Indeed... so I guess now we quest in VR areas with some version of encase + liquid lightning and add bolt escape so we can run for the hills when they don't die and their new CC immunity kicks in... got it.

And in Cyrodiil... well, I guess someone should stay behind in the keeps and do all the chores... unless there are no Templars or Nightblade around to heal so then we can pull out our stick of heals and go out on an adventure... can't hardly wait.