Sorc 1.6 Discussion

XEVENEX

Actually, you can't streak away from anyone who is any good. Gap closers have far more range than streak and cost a lot less iirc. That said its still amazing for mobility.

Glory

They still haven't fixed Unstable Familiar... Still does 10% damage instead of 20% damage.

christoph.dessleb17_ESO

XEVENEX wrote: »

Actually, you can't streak away from anyone who is any good. Gap closers have far more range than streak and cost a lot less iirc. That said its still amazing for mobility.

actually depends on how you use it. good sorcerers use it either offensively or foresighted with advantage of their environment. it's far more than a simple o *** button.

Gorthax

I must just not see how sorcs are good anymore. Not from a pve stand point. Also not from a "grab a sword and shield" stand point either. If anything I have become far more weaker than 1.5

daemonios

More observations: daedric mines have a huge camera shake. I used them on swarming wasps and it's terribly distracting. The screen shakes all over the place as long as some wasps are making them go boom.

Gorthax

OtarTheMad wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Can we please have some well-written feedback from a good PvP sorc on 1.6 changes concerning PvP, rather than AoE craglorn mobs?

EU players don't have their characters uploaded this week so...I cannot do it myself...

I can try to help considering I PvP'd with my Sorc yesterday and it's all I really do in the live server with him.

I think right now it's too small of a sample to judge how effective Sorcerer's will be in PvP as yesterday was mainly small scale PvP with most people probably not grouping and just fighting randomly in fields.

I can tell you that if you run an offensive Sorc with two Destro staffs then you are in trouble fighting someone one-on-one because you really have no self-heal. Carry a restro staff and that will solve the problem by just simply putting Combat Prayer or one of the other skills on the bar. I have mine on my second bar.

Too early to tell how important Impen is on your gear, how many you should have and what other trait is better. I would say you need to get as much crit as humanly possible however. Right now Pre-1.6 my Sorc (with Inner Light) had about 54% spell crit. In the PTS server (again with Inner Light) I have just 42% spell crit... with the same set up. Some abilities give you more spell crit with the new buffs called Major and Minor Prophecy (Minor= 3% and Major=10%)

I would say toy around with your bars, see what skills work together better because even though not many things changed for Sorc, you have to almost work a little harder to make the class not seem so underpowered. Magicka Detonation (new AvA ability) is nice to run on your bar but is not the zerg killer it was said to be and is a little underwhelming.

The changes to Destructive Reach, Daedric Curse and some other skills like Degeneration and Impulse give you a reason to try them on your bar and maybe swap out a skill that didn't get that big of a buff. Also the buff to Meteor makes it pretty much the best offensive Ultimate a Sorc can use. Streak or Ball of Lightning (Bolt Escape) is also more important than ever in PvP for a Sorc as you'll need to get out of bad situations really quick since you're a little squisher in light armor than before. Have one or two shields on your bar like Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka to help you out. I only have one because I am trying to go more offensive and need the space.

I hope this helps.

@OtarTheMad‌ it would be better if meteors could NOT be reflected......that alone makes it garbage still. Also the destructive reach skill, no thanks. It can be reflected. I am speaking from a pvp stand point not pve. Pve is just to darn boring to even care about anymore

OtarTheMad

Gorthax wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Can we please have some well-written feedback from a good PvP sorc on 1.6 changes concerning PvP, rather than AoE craglorn mobs?

EU players don't have their characters uploaded this week so...I cannot do it myself...

I can try to help considering I PvP'd with my Sorc yesterday and it's all I really do in the live server with him.

I think right now it's too small of a sample to judge how effective Sorcerer's will be in PvP as yesterday was mainly small scale PvP with most people probably not grouping and just fighting randomly in fields.

I can tell you that if you run an offensive Sorc with two Destro staffs then you are in trouble fighting someone one-on-one because you really have no self-heal. Carry a restro staff and that will solve the problem by just simply putting Combat Prayer or one of the other skills on the bar. I have mine on my second bar.

Too early to tell how important Impen is on your gear, how many you should have and what other trait is better. I would say you need to get as much crit as humanly possible however. Right now Pre-1.6 my Sorc (with Inner Light) had about 54% spell crit. In the PTS server (again with Inner Light) I have just 42% spell crit... with the same set up. Some abilities give you more spell crit with the new buffs called Major and Minor Prophecy (Minor= 3% and Major=10%)

I would say toy around with your bars, see what skills work together better because even though not many things changed for Sorc, you have to almost work a little harder to make the class not seem so underpowered. Magicka Detonation (new AvA ability) is nice to run on your bar but is not the zerg killer it was said to be and is a little underwhelming.

The changes to Destructive Reach, Daedric Curse and some other skills like Degeneration and Impulse give you a reason to try them on your bar and maybe swap out a skill that didn't get that big of a buff. Also the buff to Meteor makes it pretty much the best offensive Ultimate a Sorc can use. Streak or Ball of Lightning (Bolt Escape) is also more important than ever in PvP for a Sorc as you'll need to get out of bad situations really quick since you're a little squisher in light armor than before. Have one or two shields on your bar like Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka to help you out. I only have one because I am trying to go more offensive and need the space.

I hope this helps.

@OtarTheMad‌ it would be better if meteors could NOT be reflected......that alone makes it garbage still

Very true, no ultimate should be reflected... that's why it's an ultimate. I used it on a guard at a resource yesterday (one of them that was on the flag) and it's nearly one shot them... it was crazy. I do agree though.

Overall things don't look great for Sorcs in the future.

Dazin93

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sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Impenetrable change: Now makes crit useful in PVP and we are actually seeing people die to burst, instead of endless fights

In my opinion, crit, in of itself, isn't more useful as impenetrable can reduce/eliminate any added damage you gain from crit damage. It only can be useful based on the synergies that may accompany it depending on your class/build.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-Base crit chance and passives: Helps introduce more burst into pvp, making it more exciting

This is inaccurate as you failed to state/notice that the crit chance has been significantly reduced on armor sets and armor passives easily negating the gain in base crit chance.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-Harder to cap both magicka and stamina regen: This means its harder to make a build that never runs out of resources, and therefore fights are more likely to end. Stalemates are boring, the game is much more fun now

Disagree. What this does is push builds towards damage shield stacking/resto healing as the only viable way of having sustained fights and sufficient survival.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-Champion system adds a long term feeling of progression, although some constellations seem significantly better than others

Nerfing health itemization and regeneration and then requiring heavy investment in the Champion system to reach 1.5 levels isn't what I consider progression.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

-Streak is unblockable, making it a very tough choice between it and the projectile absorb morph. Fantastic job

The stun is also removed upon receiving any damage making it less group friendly and less viable as a cc measure for builds that utilize dots. It's much harder to utilize now as an offensive skill.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Mines: These things are SCARY to melee. I play a melee sorc, so I know. Great job with these. There should be better counters to immobilize in the game.

But obviously you don't play a stamina sorc because they are way to expensive to use otherwise.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Overall sorcerror is a great class now, and still my favorite. Greatly improved over live.

Completely disagree in regards to a stamina sorc build.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

2. You guys did a GREAT job improving the sorcerror class. It is very viable with multiple builds now. Some things multiple people seem to have issues with is surge. I havent experimented much with it yet, but they bring up some valuable points. The cooldown on the self heal is obviously mandatory to prevent insane self healing from streaking through zergs or large groups, its unfortunate more people dont understand this. Perhaps the 1 second cooldown is too long or the heal is not strong enough. I think this ability needs to be analyzed a bit and possibly improved.

I couldn't disagree more regarding your statement about build variety/viability.

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

3. Sorcerror seems overly reliant on using a restoration staff compared to other classes. Critical Surge and dark exchange are the only class heals, besides the dark magic passive. These heals arent really reliable. Conjured ward is an awesome self shield though and I think a lot of people forget we have this when they talk about sorc lack of healing. The ward is in many ways better than a heal. I think its good for classes to have strengths and weaknesses, so having weak self heals is fine, but this does somewhat pigeonhole us into using a restoration staff on one bar in pvp for the strongest builds.

You state sorc is viable with multiple builds but then even contradict yourself in stating sorcs seem overly reliant on using a resto staff as class heals aren't reliable and that it pigeonholes sorcs in pvp.

If I have to have a resto staff and ward to be viable in pvp then I can forget about being a stamina sorc as both are magicka intensive and both scale from your magicka pool and spell damage.

And if we are now relegated to only sorc magicka builds with resto staff then where are these multiple builds you are alluding to? Frankly, they don't exist unless you consider swapping a few skills to be a different build.

One person stated that your dumb to play a stamina sorc anyways; that's just not what the class was intended for. Maybe he is right, however, 1.6 was supposed to bring more class/build/role diversity and open up more choices, not limit them.

In contrast, all I see is classes and builds becoming even more restricted and less choices. Let's be honest. Many of us have probably played games from 10 years ago that had more viable classes and builds than what ESO currently offers. Restricting it even more is very shortsighted on their part and if new and current players don't enjoy the playstyle that those few builds provide, they will not continue to play.

XEVENEX

christoph.dessleb17_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Actually, you can't streak away from anyone who is any good. Gap closers have far more range than streak and cost a lot less iirc. That said its still amazing for mobility.

actually depends on how you use it. good sorcerers use it either offensively or foresighted with advantage of their environment. it's far more than a simple o *** button.

Thats pretty much what I meant but didnt elaborate. You have to know its time to run before they get in gap closing range or use terrain etc. I use it mainly offensively. Forcing your opponent to find and retarget you every 5 seconds is an amazing thing.

I would argue that being effective with sorc requires some skill.

tunepunk

One of the sorcerer skills i think need some Love is encase & morps. Totally useless in many cases PVE. especcially against some creatures that are immune to immobalize. If so... they could at least make it explode for the puny damage it does. PVP it can be useful. Fun usage.... sneak or bolt in to zerg and root a bunch. Root bypasses block, adds increased crit chance and heals 5% per target hit. PvE not so much useful. Too many things immune to immobalize.

Have restraining prison apply small DoT for the same duration at least.

Exstazik

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

They still haven't fixed Unstable Familiar... Still does 10% damage instead of 20% damage.

also not stun

Gorthax

XEVENEX wrote: »

christoph.dessleb17_ESO wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Actually, you can't streak away from anyone who is any good. Gap closers have far more range than streak and cost a lot less iirc. That said its still amazing for mobility.

actually depends on how you use it. good sorcerers use it either offensively or foresighted with advantage of their environment. it's far more than a simple o *** button.

Thats pretty much what I meant but didnt elaborate. You have to know its time to run before they get in gap closing range or use terrain etc. I use it mainly offensively. Forcing your opponent to find and retarget you every 5 seconds is an amazing thing.

I would argue that being effective with sorc requires some skill.

naw, just required a sword and shield :P

Snit

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Derra

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

sabresandiego_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

Snit

Derra wrote: »

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community.

I think that's meaningless. Shield Stacking is not an exploit, so anyone who wants to 'frown upon' it is probably not someone whose opinion will keep me awake at night

Fruitdog

I hate to say it but maybe the devs intended the Twilight Matriarch to be the class heal.

Pyatra

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

He means stacking on the other shields as well, like dropping Resto, Hardened, and whatever else.

XEVENEX

XEVENEX wrote: »

We've far, far more important things to complain about than lol crit surge. If that was your crutch then you were doing it all wrong to begin with.

Health is not scaling up as much as damage and shields are on PTS. Even more reason to have a Hardened Ward based defense. It's cheap, instant, spammable, and gets better the more magicka you stack. You don't need a heal if your health never takes damage.

Just because you can make a stamina Sorc doesnt mean you should. You are not a unique snowflake. There is a superior build for every class in every mmo ever created. Gamers are generally pretty good at min/maxing these things out.
Stamina builds are just not going to be as effective because our class skills are all magicka. It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

I said this a page ago

Derra

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

Just search for the endless crys about shield stacking (though they are from the same few people all along).

I love my hardened ward.

Pyatra wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

He means stacking on the other shields as well, like dropping Resto, Hardened, and whatever else.

you won´t even need that anymore. Hardened can reach like 15k shield on pts that will not be critically hit. If you´re being funny couple that with up to 18k Healing ward + 10k Harness.
Hilarious.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I test builds on the PTS on a boss with lots of HP that never interrupts my rotation so I get very, very accurate DPS numbers (mammoths and storm atros give garbage numbers).

Anyways, I tested a pet build. Conclusion: it still sucks, barely any DPS increase over a crushing shock rotation. I will change around my gear and enchants to see if I can get pets to be more viable, but right now, they are not.

Gorthax

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

15k damage shield? Enlighten me, mine is only 8k @Derra‌

Gorthax

unless you meant stacking shields for a total of 15k

XEVENEX

Derra wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

Just search for the endless crys about shield stacking (though they are from the same few people all along).

I love my hardened ward.

Pyatra wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

Frowned upon? Are you joking? This is a class ability. Thats like saying using ambush is frowned upon. Stop being silly

He means stacking on the other shields as well, like dropping Resto, Hardened, and whatever else.

you won´t even need that anymore. Hardened can reach like 15k shield on pts that will not be critically hit. If you´re being funny couple that with up to 18k Healing ward + 10k Harness.
Hilarious.

You can crit shields cant you? I know they do not benefit from armor so the light armor nerf is a non issue.

Also 15k is a bit high. Its more like 11-13k depending on magicka.

angelyn

Also..now that we are using pet builds for DPS, we won't pick hardened ward morph as we will need to pick empowered ward morph to give pets DPS boost.

Sooo just like surge I need to pick between self heal and damage.. Maybe they intend us to run with crit surge for extra damage and hardened ward (with pets)for something instead of self heal?

Actually, there is no mention in the patch notes of the changes that they promised for conjured ward. Perhaps they didn't mean to improve it just telling us that it would now be useful. I'm going to query this in another thread.

XEVENEX

Gorthax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Sabre does make one point with which I agree, having given it some thought: Perhaps we should stop thinking of Critical Surge as our class heal, and give that label to Hardened Ward. Hardened Ward is still pretty solid.

Hardened ward and the resulting shield stacking is frownend upon by most of the community. However its the way to play for a sorc atleast in pvp. Not much other choices left.
15000 points dmg shield is nice though. Have not seen a heal that high

15k damage shield? Enlighten me, mine is only 8k @Derra‌

Its 8k +33% so around 11k. I wrote an addon that tells you exactly how much shield you have.

painsworth01

Maybe i'm missing something about this "powerful pet build", but my low level vet sorc still does much more damage without a pet. i finally loaded both pets simultaneously and stood back to see how much damage they could do. Not much.

Erock25

tunepunk wrote: »

Root bypasses block, adds increased crit chance and heals 5% per target hit.

Why do people who don't understand their own class comment on things? Encase certainly does not heal 5% per target hit. It is just a shame that your voice is as loud on this forum as people who actually know what they are talking about.

skillastat

Surge don't heal *** all

angelyn

painsworth01 wrote: »

Maybe i'm missing something about this "powerful pet build", but my low level vet sorc still does much more damage without a pet. i finally loaded both pets simultaneously and stood back to see how much damage they could do. Not much.

Perhaps ZOS could tell us what build they were using when they said that pet sorcerers had high DPS. I'm willing to try anything!