Sorc 1.6 Discussion

ToRelax

Made up a Discussion in the Feedback Forum about Critical Surge.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148366/surge-in-1-6

Danisheraser

I am disappointed with these changes.

So Zenimax wants sorcerers to be pet classes with destruction staffs? Pathetic.

Erock25

Updated OP with the clannfear correction.

Ethona

I don't play Sorc, but it appears that ZOS has one direction for Sorc this whole time! So it's really ZOS-Sorc this way while the players are wanting it go that way. Since the game has been out for fairly long time and patch after patch ZOS has kept going in their own direction with the class ... perhaps it's time for some folks to reconsider their play style for the Sorc or jump ship to another class.

mailb16_ESO149

Magelight is now +5% instead of -10% Magicka, so should net a 15% Magicka increase. I don't know how much that affects damage, though. It also seems that using Entropy gives +20% damage for the next attach at 100% chance at rank 2 of Might of the guild.

LtCrunch

Kilandros wrote: »

These changes do absolutely nothing for the Sorcerer except shift some numbers around and nerf our already underwhelming self heal.

- No stamina morphs (and yet Surge buffs weapon damage)
- No meaningful DPS increase (Crystal Frag still has a global cooldown/cast time)
- No meaningful survivability buffs (Storm Armor duration increased--its duration was never a problem. The skill was fine.)

Because Sorcerers received no Stamina morphs they are effectively locked into Destro/Restro combos.

Furthermore, the Pet "improvements" are an indication that the Developers are trying to shoehorn the class into a fairly passive Pet playstyle.

Abandon ship. It is not going to improve for Sorcerers--ever. ZOS has indicated they don't plan to address balance again anytime soon, so there will be no stamina morphs / hybrid opportunities for Sorcerer in the foreseeable future. Even if they do balance class again sometime in the next couple of years, they've demonstrated that they want Sorcerers to be strictly magicka-based Pet users.

That's it. Get the hell out now. You've been warned.

What exactly would you call this:
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Sorcs are going to much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now with several of these changes. Some of the changes are indeed questionable, but you need to tone down your hyperbole or people aren't going to take you seriously.

angelyn

I've had a look at what I currently have on my bars and how it will change. I mainly PVE and I'm no expert. I'm really hoping I've misunderstood some of the skill changes (I'm looking at you crit surge!). Note that I only use 3 Sorcerer Class skills. The rest are all from mages guild/destruction staff etc. This is just an example of a type of build that some sorcerers would run and how the changes would affect this build:

MULTIPLE TARGETS BAR
This entire bar will no longer generate ultimate unless I weave single target weapon attacks into a pack of mobs. If they insist on ultimate being generated by weapon attacks, then give us a multiple target weapon attack.

AOEs can now hit more than 6 targets, but with reducing damage based on range.

• Crit Surge -Was my number 1 skill and helped me survive as a vampire sorc. I know that many people hate this build in PVP but I mainly PVE. Not sure if I will keep this on my bar now.
• Boundless Storm- Gave me extra AOE damage (Looks the same unless I didn’t understand it correctly) Hit more targets + no ultimate generation.
• Elemental Ring: (No changes listed) Hit more targets + no ultimate generation.

SINGLE TARGET BAR
Had to incorporate light attack weaving to get DPS so will continue to do so. Therefore, at least when fighting single targets I should get some ultimate. However, it is at a much slower rate than AOE bar currently, and will probably regen even slower after 1.6 as abilities/spells will no longer generate ultimate.

• Elemental Drain- Ability(weakness to elements) now has no cost and can affect multiple targets. They’ve not mentioned whether the Elemental Drain morph will still return magicka. If it does then that = increased magicka due to free spell and magicka return.
• Crushing Shock-No change
•Endless Fury: Increased base magicka regen to 25% but not sure how much it magicka it used to give back. Unsure but could give more magicka return.


BOTH BARS
• Magelight isn't a sorc skill, however, I run it on both bars and many people do. This currently equates to -5% max magicka. Now that they have changed it to buff by 5%, that will be an increase to my build of 10% magicka. This will therefore, increase my spell damage. (I have no idea how much by). Equates to 10% increase in magicka and associated spell damage increase.
• Bound Aegis: Used to provide armour at -10% magicka. Now provides no armour but spell resistance and minor physical resistance. Also buffs magicka by 10% (which would equate to +20% magicka for me since I’m used to running at -10%). I will be more squishy, have +20% magicka and associated spell damage increase.
• Batswarm Ultimate- No changes listed, however it will be much harder to generate ultimate unless weaving light attacks into aoe rotation as well.

LIGHT ARMOUR
Not sure how much armor it used to give compared to heavy armour %wise . It will now be at 25% of what the same piece could provide in heavy armour. If that ratio is less than what it is now it means- Light armour will possibly provide less armour protection than it does now.

Same thing with spell resistance -Not sure how much it used to give compared to heavy armour. It will now give the same spell resistance as the value of the armour on the piece. If they have nerfed light armour as in above paragraph. Light armour will possibly provide less spell resistance than it does now.


TLDR my build changes in 1.6:
Pros
• I can hit more targets with my AOE
• A number of skills will boost max magicka instead of reducing it.
• Due to the above my spell damage will increase.

Cons
• Crit surge will no longer heal me effectively.
• I will not generate ultimate on my AOE bar unless I start to weave single attacks in
• It will be harder for me to generate ultimate overall as even my single target spells/abilities will no longer generate ultimate.
• Armor and armour spells provide less spell resistance and armour protection than before. I will be more vulnerable.

I envision I will put less stat points into Magicka, since some skills now buff it. Instead I will put those stat points into health to make up for Crit surge changes.

Who knows? I may even try out a pet build!

xherics

I can accept these changes, if CRIT SURGE will have NO cooldown!

Sorc is atm the most *** CLASS in the game and you take away also the ONE only self-heal ability what we have... No acceptable change!

Emma_Overload

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Kilandros

Brandalf wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

These changes do absolutely nothing for the Sorcerer except shift some numbers around and nerf our already underwhelming self heal.

- No stamina morphs (and yet Surge buffs weapon damage)
- No meaningful DPS increase (Crystal Frag still has a global cooldown/cast time)
- No meaningful survivability buffs (Storm Armor duration increased--its duration was never a problem. The skill was fine.)

Because Sorcerers received no Stamina morphs they are effectively locked into Destro/Restro combos.

Furthermore, the Pet "improvements" are an indication that the Developers are trying to shoehorn the class into a fairly passive Pet playstyle.

Abandon ship. It is not going to improve for Sorcerers--ever. ZOS has indicated they don't plan to address balance again anytime soon, so there will be no stamina morphs / hybrid opportunities for Sorcerer in the foreseeable future. Even if they do balance class again sometime in the next couple of years, they've demonstrated that they want Sorcerers to be strictly magicka-based Pet users.

That's it. Get the hell out now. You've been warned.

What exactly would you call this:
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Sorcs are going to much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now with several of these changes. Some of the changes are indeed questionable, but you need to tone down your hyperbole or people aren't going to take you seriously.

None of our class abilities scale off of stamina, so how does that Dark Exchange morph help us exactly? So we can get more Stamina to use on non-class abilities, great. This of course is in addition to the fact that no one uses Dark Exchange because of the overly long cast time which makes you supremely vulnerable during fights.

Still, I'll say it again: None of our class abilities scale off of stamina. So that morph doesn't really help.

So no, the ability to recover stamina does not mean "Sorcs are going to be much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now." That quote is the only hyperbolic and exaggerated fact that's been made so far.

Rylana

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

It would be like when I was emp prior to the streak nerf and before impen was common. I literally could self heal for so much that even 30 people focus firing me didnt budge my healthbar

OtarTheMad

I don't plan on giving up on Sorc until I test things out. We got some good buffs imo. We do have some good changes and I'd like to see what it changes going forward. It might seem worth actually having Daedric Curse in my bar now and also Lightning Form as well. It might be easier to be a ranged offensive Sorc now more than before. Especially with changes to Destro line and Mages Guild. Sad that this class still relies on other skill lines to be on par with the other classes but maybe ZOS will adjust things a little.

Kilandros

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

It would be like when I was emp prior to the streak nerf and before impen was common. I literally could self heal for so much that even 30 people focus firing me didnt budge my healthbar

Which is why they should scrap the heal entirely from Surge and give Sorcerer's a self heal elsewhere akin to Dragon's Blood.

ToRelax

Kilandros wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

These changes do absolutely nothing for the Sorcerer except shift some numbers around and nerf our already underwhelming self heal.

- No stamina morphs (and yet Surge buffs weapon damage)
- No meaningful DPS increase (Crystal Frag still has a global cooldown/cast time)
- No meaningful survivability buffs (Storm Armor duration increased--its duration was never a problem. The skill was fine.)

Because Sorcerers received no Stamina morphs they are effectively locked into Destro/Restro combos.

Furthermore, the Pet "improvements" are an indication that the Developers are trying to shoehorn the class into a fairly passive Pet playstyle.

Abandon ship. It is not going to improve for Sorcerers--ever. ZOS has indicated they don't plan to address balance again anytime soon, so there will be no stamina morphs / hybrid opportunities for Sorcerer in the foreseeable future. Even if they do balance class again sometime in the next couple of years, they've demonstrated that they want Sorcerers to be strictly magicka-based Pet users.

That's it. Get the hell out now. You've been warned.

What exactly would you call this:
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Sorcs are going to much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now with several of these changes. Some of the changes are indeed questionable, but you need to tone down your hyperbole or people aren't going to take you seriously.

None of our class abilities scale off of stamina, so how does that Dark Exchange morph help us exactly? So we can get more Stamina to use on non-class abilities, great. This of course is in addition to the fact that no one uses Dark Exchange because of the overly long cast time which makes you supremely vulnerable during fights.

Still, I'll say it again: None of our class abilities scale off of stamina. So that morph doesn't really help.

So no, the ability to recover stamina does not mean "Sorcs are going to be much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now." That quote is the only hyperbolic and exaggerated fact that's been made so far.

Yes that will not be a very good skill for stamina builds anyway as there is no mentioning of it scaling off weapon damage and stamina.

However, I will consider making an alternative build with this for PvP (or even use it in my main build, just don't see how to make space for it right now).

It will just not be viable if you can't get in a relatively safe situation quickly for some seconds but the only reason I NEVER use it in PvP is because it drained stamina, thus made me ven more vulnerable than I was before.

Kilandros

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I don't plan on giving up on Sorc until I test things out. We got some good buffs imo. We do have some good changes and I'd like to see what it changes going forward. It might seem worth actually having Daedric Curse in my bar now and also Lightning Form as well. It might be easier to be a ranged offensive Sorc now more than before. Especially with changes to Destro line and Mages Guild. Sad that this class still relies on other skill lines to be on par with the other classes but maybe ZOS will adjust things a little.

If you weren't using Lightning Form before, there's no reason for you to use it now just because they increased the duration (unless it becomes mandatory for LA users)

Leovolao

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

It would be like when I was emp prior to the streak nerf and before impen was common. I literally could self heal for so much that even 30 people focus firing me didnt budge my healthbar

Then cap the heal to the 6 targets taking full damage and reduce the healing received. This 1 second cooldown *** is just a slap in the face.

ToRelax

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

It would be like when I was emp prior to the streak nerf and before impen was common. I literally could self heal for so much that even 30 people focus firing me didnt budge my healthbar

I already made a thread about it, gave my best to stay objective

ToRelax wrote: »

Made up a Discussion in the Feedback Forum about Critical Surge.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148366/surge-in-1-6

OtarTheMad

Kilandros wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I don't plan on giving up on Sorc until I test things out. We got some good buffs imo. We do have some good changes and I'd like to see what it changes going forward. It might seem worth actually having Daedric Curse in my bar now and also Lightning Form as well. It might be easier to be a ranged offensive Sorc now more than before. Especially with changes to Destro line and Mages Guild. Sad that this class still relies on other skill lines to be on par with the other classes but maybe ZOS will adjust things a little.

If you weren't using Lightning Form before, there's no reason for you to use it now just because they increased the duration (unless it becomes mandatory for LA users)

I only really used it on scroll runs but I'll give it a shot. Most likely I'll still stay with Conjured Ward and/or Harness Magicka but... worth a shot just for curiousity reasons.

Cuyler

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

It would be like when I was emp prior to the streak nerf and before impen was common. I literally could self heal for so much that even 30 people focus firing me didnt budge my healthbar

Can't you do this now with your OP and now buffed even more DK?

daemonios

Still too early without seeing what the Champion System passives will do for us, but I'm skeptical that ZOS is taking sorcerer complaints seriously. Many reasons already stated here, and I'll just add that there's no word on fixing Crystal Frag's instant cast which isn't actually instant.

Samadhi

Weakening Prison is kind of interesting to me on paper; whoever attacks me gets disoriented could play an interesting role if the cost is not too high.

My ranger/bow build will likely go back to using at least one pet.

My sword and board build might try some new things with the duration increase on Thundering Presence.

Want to see what Crystal Blast does with the cast time reduction and 60 target AoE cap, but the radius on the impact is probably not sufficient for PvP.

This update may make me revisit some of my niche builds, but aside from that there is not a ton of appeal.

Emma_Overload

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

That was ALREADY true, if you used a dual Destro Wall-of-Elements build, casting AOEs from both bars. Furthermore... so what? Why do you want the game to be broken for PVE players?

Do you have any idea how much damage the packs of mobs in Craglorn do? Scaled Illusionists pounding you with 800 DPS (each) every second, Perforators nailing you with 2200 HP snipes? Surviving against these mobs (as a sorc) is NOT possible unless you are critting and healing CONSTANTLY on as many targets as possible.

LtCrunch

Kilandros wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

These changes do absolutely nothing for the Sorcerer except shift some numbers around and nerf our already underwhelming self heal.

- No stamina morphs (and yet Surge buffs weapon damage)
- No meaningful DPS increase (Crystal Frag still has a global cooldown/cast time)
- No meaningful survivability buffs (Storm Armor duration increased--its duration was never a problem. The skill was fine.)

Because Sorcerers received no Stamina morphs they are effectively locked into Destro/Restro combos.

Furthermore, the Pet "improvements" are an indication that the Developers are trying to shoehorn the class into a fairly passive Pet playstyle.

Abandon ship. It is not going to improve for Sorcerers--ever. ZOS has indicated they don't plan to address balance again anytime soon, so there will be no stamina morphs / hybrid opportunities for Sorcerer in the foreseeable future. Even if they do balance class again sometime in the next couple of years, they've demonstrated that they want Sorcerers to be strictly magicka-based Pet users.

That's it. Get the hell out now. You've been warned.

What exactly would you call this:
Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Sorcs are going to much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now with several of these changes. Some of the changes are indeed questionable, but you need to tone down your hyperbole or people aren't going to take you seriously.

None of our class abilities scale off of stamina, so how does that Dark Exchange morph help us exactly? So we can get more Stamina to use on non-class abilities, great. This of course is in addition to the fact that no one uses Dark Exchange because of the overly long cast time which makes you supremely vulnerable during fights.

Still, I'll say it again: None of our class abilities scale off of stamina. So that morph doesn't really help.

So no, the ability to recover stamina does not mean "Sorcs are going to be much more viable for stamina builds and a more versatile class overall than they are now." That quote is the only hyperbolic and exaggerated fact that's been made so far.

Pre-update 6 no class abilities scaled off of stamina, did that automatically mean they were useless or didn't synergize well with stamina builds? Of course not, so that's a pretty pointless statement. Yes you can use it with non-class abilities, you know where the bulk of stamina abilities are.

You can cancel the "cast" of Dark Exchange at any time, you don't have to stay in it for the full duration every time. No matter how you may want to spin it Sorcerers are going to synergize better with stamina builds, pet builds are going to be viable, all the while improving on the DPS capabilities of the class as it exists currently on live(daedric curse/daedric mines damage increase, reduced crystal shard cast time). Overall the class is much more versatile post update 6 than pre update 6. If you can't see that then you're blind.

Pancake-Tragedy

I just want to put this out there, if it hasn't been said already...making pets toggled really kills the entire idea of a pet build.

Rylana

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL... my AOE can hit 60 targets now... but I can ONLY crit heal off of ONE of them... PER SECOND!

NO.... just NO!

Do you realize what would happen if that limitation was not in place

Read what you said. Heal off of sixty targets? Youd never die, youd heal for more than 5000 HPS

That was ALREADY true, if you used a dual Destro Wall-of-Elements build, casting AOEs from both bars. Furthermore... so what? Why do you want the game to be broken for PVE players?

Do you have any idea how much damage the packs of mobs in Craglorn do? Scaled Illusionists pounding you with 800 DPS (each) every second, Perforators nailing you with 2200 HP snipes? Surviving against these mobs (as a sorc) is NOT possible unless you are critting and healing CONSTANTLY on as many targets as possible.

Group content, not meant to be soloed.

Next.

LtCrunch

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

I just want to put this out there, if it hasn't been said already...making pets toggled really kills the entire idea of a pet build.

I do think requiring pet toggles on both bars is quite limiting. They should make it so if the pet is already toggled on it will stay out until it dies regardless of if you swap to a bar that doesn't have the pet slotted.

Snit

Rylana wrote: »

Group content, not meant to be soloed.

Next.

Are you under the impression that only sorcs can currently solo in group content? Alternately, do you believe there should not be solo PvE content in Craglorn?

Rylana

Snit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Group content, not meant to be soloed.

Next.

Are you under the impression that only sorcs can currently solo in group content? Alternately, do you believe there should not be solo PvE content in Craglorn?

Using craglorn mobs as justification as to why a solo sorc needs more self healing is the problem

Those mobs are meant to be group fought and not soloed, craglorn is a group zone.

lostavalon

well i guess it might time to just retire the sorc once and for all, i had really high hopes of a good change for them but i see that is definatly not gona happen. i really loved playng the class but it consistantly keep gettin the raw end of the stick. its dps considerably sucks compared to the other classes and its just a bad in tanking, have to see how the Champ system is gonna pan out with it, in which i will make my final call on playing my sorcerer again... good job ZOS... NOT

Emma_Overload

Rylana wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Group content, not meant to be soloed.

Next.

Are you under the impression that only sorcs can currently solo in group content? Alternately, do you believe there should not be solo PvE content in Craglorn?

Using craglorn mobs as justification as to why a solo sorc needs more self healing is the problem

Those mobs are meant to be group fought and not soloed, craglorn is a group zone.

Tell that to the mobs... they don't wait to see if you brought friends before they crush your a-s! What about the peeps trying to complete writs surrounded by swarms of wasps? 200 HPS is not going to cut it in Craglorn, even against glorified mosquitoes.

It's bad enough that dungeon and trial content doesn't scale to the number of players in the instance, now you want overland mob content to be off limits to solo players, too? That's bogus.