ZOS, Please Respond to the very low Style Page Drop Rates

LonePirate · April 26

ZOS really needs to move from an RNG system to a token system for these events. Drop a token each time an objective is completed. Turn in X number of tokens to an NPC to receive the reward. Make that X high enough so people have to put in the time to earn the requisite number of tokens, just not absurdly high so that most players can only complete one or two at most.

This would be a fair system and players could track their progress with it which would help manage expectations. Of course I don’t think ZOS will ever implement this so that leaves us with bitter players mad about a system from an apathetic creator.

huntgod_ESO · April 26

SilverBride wrote: »

The event was extended 2 days and doesn't end until Thursday now.

Lol this didn't age well as they ended up running a maintenance at the daily reset.

code65536 · April 26

So, I've been thinking...

What if ZOS had framed the pages differently?

What they did was announce the pages to everyone. People knew that there are 5 pages. That they drop from these specific things. And that they're limited to this event. And then people (particularly the completionists) will add that to their event to-do list, and when they fail to get it, they become embittered and angry.

But what if ZOS had instead kept all this a secret? Don't tell people that there are these 5 pages. Don't tell people where they come from. People inevitably will stumble across them and they'll be surprised. "Oh, what was this?" And eventually, through word of mouth, the existence of these things will become common knowledge, but it would all be framed differently. I suspect that instead of being something on people's to-do lists, it would be treated as the rare bonus that ZOS had probably intended. I doubt as many people would seek them out, and I doubt that people would be as disappointed when they don't get it.

So if just one of these 5 things were different, I think the pages would not have been the debacle that it had become:

Low drop rate
Inability to buy with tickets
Bound
Limited-time
Publicly announced (ZOS effectively shouting, "you should come and get them!")

SilverBride · April 26

code65536 wrote: »

But what if ZOS had instead kept all this a secret? Don't tell people that there are these 5 pages. Don't tell people where they come from. People inevitably will stumble across them and they'll be surprised. "Oh, what was this?" And eventually, through word of mouth, the existence of these things will become common knowledge, but it would all be framed differently. I suspect that instead of being something on people's to-do lists, it would be treated as the rare bonus that ZOS had probably intended. I doubt as many people would seek them out, and I doubt that people would be as disappointed when they don't get it.

I think this would have been even worse. By the time players figured out that this page only drops from this place, and only from bosses in this zone, etc. it would be too late to try to get them, leaving an even greater number of players disappointed.

I hope they find a way to make these available to all of the player base.

TybaltKaine · April 26

Just make the pages available at all times moving forward. If they are going to have such an absurdly low chance at dropping, eliminate the time limit factor.

Destai · April 26

code65536 wrote: »

So, I've been thinking...

What if ZOS had framed the pages differently?

What they did was announce the pages to everyone. People knew that there are 5 pages. That they drop from these specific things. And that they're limited to this event. And then people (particularly the completionists) will add that to their event to-do list, and when they fail to get it, they become embittered and angry.

But what if ZOS had instead kept all this a secret? Don't tell people that there are these 5 pages. Don't tell people where they come from. People inevitably will stumble across them and they'll be surprised. "Oh, what was this?" And eventually, through word of mouth, the existence of these things will become common knowledge, but it would all be framed differently. I suspect that instead of being something on people's to-do lists, it would be treated as the rare bonus that ZOS had probably intended. I doubt as many people would seek them out, and I doubt that people would be as disappointed when they don't get it.

So if just one of these 5 things were different, I think the pages would not have been the debacle that it had become:
Low drop rate

Inability to buy with tickets

Bound

Limited-time

Publicly announced (ZOS effectively shouting, "you should come and get them!")

This is an interesting idea, thanks for the sharing. That being said, I see it playing out similarly as we saw here. The moment it gets out, people will thirst for it. And if they're rare, still, people will get upset. I just don't see how anyone wins with these being rare. These are supposed to celebrate the anniversary, and the game's history, so I think it's more appropriate for them to be more easily accessible. So the rarity makes it so less people are celebrating, and that creates negative sentiment for ZOS to deal with as well.

code65536 · April 26

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

But what if ZOS had instead kept all this a secret? Don't tell people that there are these 5 pages. Don't tell people where they come from. People inevitably will stumble across them and they'll be surprised. "Oh, what was this?" And eventually, through word of mouth, the existence of these things will become common knowledge, but it would all be framed differently. I suspect that instead of being something on people's to-do lists, it would be treated as the rare bonus that ZOS had probably intended. I doubt as many people would seek them out, and I doubt that people would be as disappointed when they don't get it.

I think this would have been even worse. By the time players figured out that this page only drops from this place, and only from bosses in this zone, etc. it would be too late to try to get them, leaving an even greater number of players disappointed.

I hope they find a way to make these available to all of the player base.

Remember the very first Undaunted event? This was way back in the day before they had come up with the rainbow vomit opal styles that we now associate with that event.

Anyway, for this very first event, there was a super-rare chance of someone getting a lucky jackpot item that granted them every mount in the game (or was it every house in the game?).

I wonder if ZOS maybe intended for these replica styles to be something like that--that they're supposed to be a random jackpot item and that people weren't supposed to farm for them or collect them all.

Anyway, I brought that scenario up as that's the only way I could justify account-bound with these kinds of low drop rates. If ZOS did intend for people to farm for them and collect them all, then account-bound with tiny drop rate is sadistic.

SilverBride · April 26

code65536 wrote: »

...I wonder if ZOS maybe intended for these replica styles to be...

We don't know what they intended which is why this thread exists. They have not responded.

Blackbird_V · April 26

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...I wonder if ZOS maybe intended for these replica styles to be...

We don't know what they intended which is why this thread exists. They have not responded.

This is how us vet PvE players feel and get treated with awful patches like U35. Welcome to the club!

Jaraal · April 26

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...I wonder if ZOS maybe intended for these replica styles to be...

We don't know what they intended which is why this thread exists. They have not responded.

Have they said anywhere how they plan to help the people get their last fragment for the horse? The people who believed there would be a 2 day extension but were turned away by maintenance the moment the last day started should have a chance to finish what they were grinding for.

SilverBride · April 26

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

...I wonder if ZOS maybe intended for these replica styles to be...

We don't know what they intended which is why this thread exists. They have not responded.

This is how us vet PvE players feel and get treated with awful patches like U35. Welcome to the club!

I am a vet PvE player and this has nothing to do with a prior patch.

Desiato · April 26

I've played these games long enough to watch how it's all evolved. Loot tables and rare spawns go all the way back to, at least, D&D which was conceived by rpg enthusiasts. I played AD&D 1E as a child and we had rare drops and rare encounters. There was nothing nefarious about it. There was no grinding. Once a player bought a module, they didn't care how often or for how long they played it. Encounters, loot, combat, was all done via RNG based systems with dice.

ESO was inspired by the success of WoW and created by some of the designers of DOAC. WoW was inspired by EverQuest. Everquest was a 3D Dikumud.

Dikumuds were the most popular form of MUDs. They weren't created by evil corporations to be addictive. They were created and customized by fantasy rpg enthusiasts for fantasy rpg enthusiasts:

Raph wrote:

Monsters spawned originally on time intervals called resets. At first, the whole zone reset at once, then resets evolved in Diku-derived codebases into per-monster timers. (A zone was a collection of world data, including rooms, monsters, and items — each zone could at first have 100 of each.). There evolved the practice of “rare spawns” and eventually “rare drops” as well.

Rare drops are fun! That's why they have existed in games like this since there have been games like this. No designer plans for every player to grind them. Brad McQuaid who was the lead designer of Everquest explained how players ultimately chose to play the game, via camping mobs, was emergent and not what they intended. They intended for players to explore dungeons like players played modules in AD&D. Players weren't intended to camp the the ghoul arch magus for 12 hours to get the Shining Metallic Robes. It was intended to be a nice surprise for the lucky.

ESO has never been grindy like MMOs of the past, but it was a lot more grindy at launch. I spent more time on the VR10-16 levels and on the VR16 mat grind than I did on the recent rare drops. When vMA was introduced, I seem to recall a weapon wasn't even a guaranteed drop. I completed vMA the patch it was introduced, but I only did it twice before I reasonably decided to opt out of the weapon grind until the first Orsinium event with double drops.

IMO, no experienced MMO player would presume any malicious intent by ZOS. Players grind every gift box event. There are players who do the event quests 20 times on multiple accounts! The Alik'r dolmen grind never ends. I think the rare items were intended to be a nice surprise for players who do those things and encourage to them to do some of the overland events introduced the first few years of ESO's existence.

I've lived long enough to know one cannot save another from themselves. You can add a guard rail to something and someone will still walk along it like a tightrope. I don't think ZOS should restrict content just to save the reckless and obsessed from themselves.

@code65536 Had they not announced it, it wouldn't have made a difference. As it was, the hype for the drops was organic from the playerbase and would have happened anyway.

This post brought to you by LCD Soundsystem, I was therrrrrrrrrre...

spartaxoxo · April 26

They absolutely intended people to hunt down the drops. They advertised them. There was no guard rails. They chose the option most restrictive towards players at every opportunity. They changed the text from PTS (about fishing only) from "extremely small chance" to "small chance" but the experience reported by players on PTS is no different to what it was on the live server. And then they didn't even admit the other drops also had a small chance until a quiet, unannounced update to the description of the event midway through.

They obviously intended these to be grinded out. Bad design is not the fault of players.

Serpari · April 26

Desiato wrote: »

I've played these games long enough to watch how it's all evolved. Loot tables and rare spawns go all the way back to, at least, D&D which was conceived by rpg enthusiasts. I played AD&D 1E as a child and we had rare drops and rare encounters. There was nothing nefarious about it. There was no grinding. Once a player bought a module, they didn't care how often or for how long they played it. Encounters, loot, combat, was all done via RNG based systems with dice.

ESO was inspired by the success of WoW and created by some of the designers of DOAC. WoW was inspired by EverQuest. Everquest was a 3D Dikumud.

Dikumuds were the most popular form of MUDs. They weren't created by evil corporations to be addictive. They were created and customized by fantasy rpg enthusiasts for fantasy rpg enthusiasts:

Raph wrote:

Monsters spawned originally on time intervals called resets. At first, the whole zone reset at once, then resets evolved in Diku-derived codebases into per-monster timers. (A zone was a collection of world data, including rooms, monsters, and items — each zone could at first have 100 of each.). There evolved the practice of “rare spawns” and eventually “rare drops” as well.

Rare drops are fun! That's why they have existed in games like this since there have been games like this. No designer plans for every player to grind them. Brad McQuaid who was the lead designer of Everquest explained how players ultimately chose to play the game, via camping mobs, was emergent and not what they intended. They intended for players to explore dungeons like players played modules in AD&D. Players weren't intended to camp the the ghoul arch magus for 12 hours to get the Shining Metallic Robes. It was intended to be a nice surprise for the lucky.

ESO has never been grindy like MMOs of the past, but it was a lot more grindy at launch. I spent more time on the VR10-16 levels and on the VR16 mat grind than I did on the recent rare drops. When vMA was introduced, I seem to recall a weapon wasn't even a guaranteed drop. I completed vMA the patch it was introduced, but I only did it twice before I reasonably decided to opt out of the weapon grind until the first Orsinium event with double drops.

IMO, no experienced MMO player would presume any malicious intent by ZOS. Players grind every gift box event. There are players who do the event quests 20 times on multiple accounts! The Alik'r dolmen grind never ends. I think the rare items were intended to be a nice surprise for players who do those things and encourage to them to do some of the overland events introduced the first few years of ESO's existence.

I've lived long enough to know one cannot save another from themselves. You can add a guard rail to something and someone will still walk along it like a tightrope. I don't think ZOS should restrict content just to save the reckless and obsessed from themselves.

@code65536 Had they not announced it, it wouldn't have made a difference. As it was, the hype for the drops was organic from the playerbase and would have happened anyway.

This post brought to you by LCD Soundsystem, I was therrrrrrrrrre...

I too am ancient like you. Time moves forward. Just because things used to be done one way doesn't mean they have to be done that way, forever. RNG, particularly when dealing with a game most people pay a subscription to, is a widely disliked industry mechanic. Which is why MMOs like FFXIV and even ESO itself have gotten further and further away from it. Curated dungeon drops exist now in this game too.

Blaming the players for not 'controlling themselves' is a fallacious argument, because ZOS absolutely intended people to grind these out—they announced them on Twitter, on their site, they were hyped up by various content creators. And I am not against RNG. I don't mind RNG in vitro. I mind RNG when it's obvious padding to player engagement in metrics for business suits. ESO's RNG for this event, combined with its aggressive cash store? It makes me feel like the game is taking farther and farther away from the original intent of the RPG grind—a sense of achievement—and into a pay-to-win model. The expectation that we needed to grind for the confetti packs every single day, then also use our own money to buy extra confetti packs from the cash store to obtain the horse mount, which is supposed to be part of a celebration event?

I don't presume malicious intent, but I do presume greed because above all this game is a business and businesses want to make money. But I don't want to give this game my money anymore because grinds like these are not fun, which games are supposed to be. The older I get the more I cannot justify sitting for over five hours trying to grind a single weapon to complete my build, or for a super ultra rare style motif that gives me no advantage beyond cosmetics. I want to play the game, not be on an endless thread mill.

There's a balance to be struck here, between grinds and enjoyment, how much work one puts into a task and how that task is rewarded. The majority of players do not feel rewarded by this event. Even those who got all the motifs for free, those who were locked out due to the PTS shenanigans, have been left with a bitter taste in their mouth.

This event wouldn't had annoyed me half as much if it wasn't for the constant down time, the constant reneging of promises (extended event, only to cut it short for NA leaving us with only about four extra hours, many missing out on the advertised anniversary mount), and the poor communication. It's not just about the RNG. The RNG is a symptom of a wider issue to me—ESO's stability and quality control has taken a nosedive the past couple of months and they've gotten greedier. I would love to know what's going on in that office. Is it the layoffs? Is this a portent of things to come for ESO? Is ESO about to be on life support due to that new MMO they're making?

tl;dr: This event's RNG was bad design. The constant down time, the PTS account lockouts, the poor communication and ZOS' greed only made it more obvious.

Elvenheart · April 26

Serpari wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I've played these games long enough to watch how it's all evolved. Loot tables and rare spawns go all the way back to, at least, D&D which was conceived by rpg enthusiasts. I played AD&D 1E as a child and we had rare drops and rare encounters. There was nothing nefarious about it. There was no grinding. Once a player bought a module, they didn't care how often or for how long they played it. Encounters, loot, combat, was all done via RNG based systems with dice.

ESO was inspired by the success of WoW and created by some of the designers of DOAC. WoW was inspired by EverQuest. Everquest was a 3D Dikumud.

Dikumuds were the most popular form of MUDs. They weren't created by evil corporations to be addictive. They were created and customized by fantasy rpg enthusiasts for fantasy rpg enthusiasts:

Raph wrote:

Monsters spawned originally on time intervals called resets. At first, the whole zone reset at once, then resets evolved in Diku-derived codebases into per-monster timers. (A zone was a collection of world data, including rooms, monsters, and items — each zone could at first have 100 of each.). There evolved the practice of “rare spawns” and eventually “rare drops” as well.

Rare drops are fun! That's why they have existed in games like this since there have been games like this. No designer plans for every player to grind them. Brad McQuaid who was the lead designer of Everquest explained how players ultimately chose to play the game, via camping mobs, was emergent and not what they intended. They intended for players to explore dungeons like players played modules in AD&D. Players weren't intended to camp the the ghoul arch magus for 12 hours to get the Shining Metallic Robes. It was intended to be a nice surprise for the lucky.

ESO has never been grindy like MMOs of the past, but it was a lot more grindy at launch. I spent more time on the VR10-16 levels and on the VR16 mat grind than I did on the recent rare drops. When vMA was introduced, I seem to recall a weapon wasn't even a guaranteed drop. I completed vMA the patch it was introduced, but I only did it twice before I reasonably decided to opt out of the weapon grind until the first Orsinium event with double drops.

IMO, no experienced MMO player would presume any malicious intent by ZOS. Players grind every gift box event. There are players who do the event quests 20 times on multiple accounts! The Alik'r dolmen grind never ends. I think the rare items were intended to be a nice surprise for players who do those things and encourage to them to do some of the overland events introduced the first few years of ESO's existence.

I've lived long enough to know one cannot save another from themselves. You can add a guard rail to something and someone will still walk along it like a tightrope. I don't think ZOS should restrict content just to save the reckless and obsessed from themselves.

@code65536 Had they not announced it, it wouldn't have made a difference. As it was, the hype for the drops was organic from the playerbase and would have happened anyway.

This post brought to you by LCD Soundsystem, I was therrrrrrrrrre...

I too am ancient like you. Time moves forward. Just because things used to be done one way doesn't mean they have to be done that way, forever. RNG, particularly when dealing with a game most people pay a subscription to, is a widely disliked industry mechanic. Which is why MMOs like FFXIV and even ESO itself have gotten further and further away from it. Curated dungeon drops exist now in this game too.

Blaming the players for not 'controlling themselves' is a fallacious argument, because ZOS absolutely intended people to grind these out—they announced them on Twitter, on their site, they were hyped up by various content creators. And I am not against RNG. I don't mind RNG in vitro. I mind RNG when it's obvious padding to player engagement in metrics for business suits. ESO's RNG for this event, combined with its aggressive cash store? It makes me feel like the game is taking farther and farther away from the original intent of the RPG grind—a sense of achievement—and into a pay-to-win model. The expectation that we needed to grind for the confetti packs every single day, then also use our own money to buy extra confetti packs from the cash store to obtain the horse mount, which is supposed to be part of a celebration event?

I don't presume malicious intent, but I do presume greed because above all this game is a business and businesses want to make money. But I don't want to give this game my money anymore because grinds like these are not fun, which games are supposed to be. The older I get the more I cannot justify sitting for over five hours trying to grind a single weapon to complete my build, or for a super ultra rare style motif that gives me no advantage beyond cosmetics. I want to play the game, not be on an endless thread mill.

There's a balance to be struck here, between grinds and enjoyment, how much work one puts into a task and how that task is rewarded. The majority of players do not feel rewarded by this event. Even those who got all the motifs for free, those who were locked out due to the PTS shenanigans, have been left with a bitter taste in their mouth.

This event wouldn't had annoyed me half as much if it wasn't for the constant down time, the constant reneging of promises (extended event, only to cut it short for NA leaving us with only about four extra hours, many missing out on the advertised anniversary mount), and the poor communication. It's not just about the RNG. The RNG is a symptom of a wider issue to me—ESO's stability and quality control has taken a nosedive the past couple of months and they've gotten greedier. I would love to know what's going on in that office. Is it the layoffs? Is this a portent of things to come for ESO? Is ESO about to be on life support due to that new MMO they're making?

tl;dr: This event's RNG was bad design. The constant down time, the PTS account lockouts, the poor communication and ZOS' greed only made it more obvious.

Well said.

virtus753 · April 26

code65536 wrote: »

Anyway, for this very first event, there was a super-rare chance of someone getting a lucky jackpot item that granted them every mount in the game (or was it every house in the game?)..

I see a substantive difference here in that that jackpot was a very low chance at getting things that are by and large otherwise available. It saved a ton of money, gold, and in some cases time waiting for things to be offered again (if one can't get them directly through an arrangement with Support). There's only one mount in game that I know for sure can no longer be acquired and (per ZOS) will never be made available again; I don't know if that was included in the jackpot. I don't think there's a house that they've done that with or said that about. Even the Psijic Villa and Antiquarian's Gallery have been made available later in the Crown Store. (Kelesan'ruhn may well follow suit in the future; it's too soon for that one just yet, if we go by the release schedules of the others.)

Same with the jackpot for the huge amounts of currencies during Zeal of Zenithar. Those just save time grinding. They don't offer anything we can't already get.

To make a whole set of otherwise unavailable things only available through what feels like jackpot-level RNG during a limited-time event is quite different, imo.

Desiato · April 26

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They absolutely intended people to hunt down the drops. They advertised them. There was no guard rails. They chose the option most restrictive towards players at every opportunity. They changed the text from PTS (about fishing only) from "extremely small chance" to "small chance" but the experience reported by players on PTS is no different to what it was on the live server. And then they didn't even admit the other drops also had a small chance until a quiet, unannounced update to the description of the event midway through.

They obviously intended these to be grinded out. Bad design is not the fault of players.

They sure didn't intend for everyone to do it. The average skyrim casual who plays ESO like a single player game most likely wasn't even aware of them. IMO, they are now the main audience for the game, not forum dwellers or gaming enthusiasts.

Saying they were advertised suggests they were heavily promoted. I don't think they were even in the promo image for the event. [edit, actually, they were!] They were referenced in the middle of the announcement page. They were not headlining items. They were basically low effort throw-ins as art assets that already existed before the event.

Of course they expected some people to grind them because some players enjoy that. Obviously most do not, but that should be fine. No one should expect all things to be for them, even if they are part of a majority opinion.

Serpari wrote: »

I too am ancient like you. Time moves forward. Just because things used to be done one way doesn't mean they have to be done that way, forever. RNG, particularly when dealing with a game most people pay a subscription to, is a widely disliked industry mechanic. Which is why MMOs like FFXIV and even ESO itself have gotten further and further away from it. Curated dungeon drops exist now in this game too.

Time moves on for sure. There's a reason I don't play p1999. That's why the entire game isn't like this. We're talking about 5 rare style page drops out of dozens that were offered in the event.

I honestly don't see how greed could be a factor at all. If anything, the grind cost them more server resources. I doubt this event significantly increased engagement over previous events.

I think the players impacted negatively overestimate their weight in the overall audience for this game. When I encounter people outside of the game in rl who play ESO, something I would never admit to, they are all TES casuals who would never imagine coming here. Most are Skyrim fans, but there are occasionally some Morrowind and Oblivion fans. To them this is an episodic TES game they play like a single player game. That's why ZOS insists on calling it an online RPG. That's where most of the development resources go in each chapter: content that can be enjoyed completely solo.

I recall a poll on the subject showed that 15% enjoyed the grind. So I think it's fair a minority of the content offered for the event appealed to a minority of players. In the poll thread, many commented because they wouldn't enjoy the grind, they just didn't do it.

And yes, players who put themselves through misery obtaining these items only have themselves to blame. I think that's crazy. I would never do that.

Andew Huberman who is a podcasting neuroscientist has talked a lot about how games, phones and social media are harming us by overstimulating our reward systems, resulting in a lot of self-inflicted suffering. He stresses the need to self-regulate. It's important that people do that.

SilverBride · April 26

Desiato wrote: »

And yes, players who put themselves through misery obtaining these items only have themselves to blame. I think that's crazy. I would never do that.

The topic of this thread is to request feedback from ZoS about why these style pages were done this way. It is not about whether or not players should have participated.

wolfie1.0. · April 26

LonePirate wrote: »

ZOS really needs to move from an RNG system to a token system for these events. Drop a token each time an objective is completed. Turn in X number of tokens to an NPC to receive the reward. Make that X high enough so people have to put in the time to earn the requisite number of tokens, just not absurdly high so that most players can only complete one or two at most.

This would be a fair system and players could track their progress with it which would help manage expectations. Of course I don’t think ZOS will ever implement this so that leaves us with bitter players mad about a system from an apathetic creator.

they have one, its called event tickets, one which they decided to NOT use for these things.

spartaxoxo · April 26

Desiato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They absolutely intended people to hunt down the drops. They advertised them. There was no guard rails. They chose the option most restrictive towards players at every opportunity. They changed the text from PTS (about fishing only) from "extremely small chance" to "small chance" but the experience reported by players on PTS is no different to what it was on the live server. And then they didn't even admit the other drops also had a small chance until a quiet, unannounced update to the description of the event midway through.

They obviously intended these to be grinded out. Bad design is not the fault of players.

They sure didn't intend for everyone to do it. The average skyrim casual who plays ESO like a single player game most likely wasn't even aware of them. IMO, they are now the main audience for the game, not forum dwellers or gaming enthusiasts.

Saying they were advertised suggests they were heavily promoted. I don't think they were even in the promo image for the event. They were referenced in the middle of the announcement page. They were not headlining items. They were basically low effort throw-ins as art assets that already existed before the event.

Of course they expected some people to grind them because some players enjoy that. Obviously most do not, but that should be fine. No one should expect all things to be for them, even if they are part of a majority opinion.

It was in the announcement page. They literally hook you in the headline there will be special bonus loot. It was only in the middle of the page because they had to explain how the event worked first.

They made it a highlight on PTS.

Who cares if it was not meant for ultra casuals? It was created for the type of player who would do things like read their advertising, look at their news page, and even post on their forums. The people here are literally the audience this type of content is intended for and it utterly failed at it.

That is due to horrible design. Not players deciding to put in some effort for a reward.

Also video game addiction and the like has to do with actual, substantial harm to a person's life. People who neglect real life responsibilities like showering, eating, going to work, socializing with their friends and family. It has absolutely nothing to do with someone having a bad mood about something they decided to do one time in 10 years to get a reward they wanted. To suggest otherwise trivializes a serious real life issue and spreads misunderstanding. What happened with the event has absolutely zero to do with neuroscience or psychiatry. It doesn't matter how unhappy someone was doing it.

Harm comes from a pattern of behavior that negative impact on a person's real life. Not people complaining about a video game having garbage RNG that one time.

GooGa592 · April 27

I'm sure the participation report looked great!

manukartofanu · April 27

XSTRONG wrote: »

If something is meantioned as "rare" it should be rare and not be giving away for free in crownstore whats next after that give away monster style pages in crownstore for free?

They're already almost free in the Infinite Archive, if you haven't noticed.

LadyLavina · April 28

The fact that they haven't AT ALL is just absolutely staggering to me.

Jaraal · April 28

LadyLavina wrote: »

The fact that they haven't AT ALL is just absolutely staggering to me.

Personally, I'm not surprised in the least. "Post mortems," as they call them, are extremely rare.

FluffyBird · April 28

Jaraal wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

The fact that they haven't AT ALL is just absolutely staggering to me.

Personally, I'm not surprised in the least. "Post mortems," as they call them, are extremely rare.

"If we stay very still and quiet, unhappy players will go away"
Well, they might do just that.