U39 - PTS Endeavours: more choice is less it seems

RMW

Yeah no. This alone will be not fun doing with pugs lol

Why make these more complicated than you have to? Do you want us to stop doing endeavors?

StabbityDoom

One last thing. Some of these are ESO+/dlc owning only.
So lower income people are being hit by this change too.

Just leave endeavors alone. They were fine.

FayJolyn

Play the way you want will become play the way ZOS wants you too. Aw hell naw.

Honestly, I think ZOS need some help in the fun and creative department. To make this post constructive I want to ask the community to help with this. Give Zos some actual realistic and fun new ideas instead. C'mon people, lets get creative! Letsgoooooo!

So, I want to ask of you gamers;
What kind of endeavors would you actually like to see instead of the ones ZOS comes up with?

AzuraFan

Considering the games that are being released within the next few months, if ever there was a time to give people a reason to log in daily, now is it. These changes will have the opposite effect.

I've gone through a few periods when the only reason I logged in to ESO was to pick up the login reward, do the daily endeavors, and do writs, with the endeavors being a huge incentive. These changes will kill that incentive.

Even when I'm actively logging into ESO, I'm not going to spend an hour (or two) on daily endeavors. Some people only have an hour or two to play every day. When are people supposed to work on story quests, explore, do their dungeons/trials of choice, or PvP if all their gaming time is spent on endeavors?

If the rationale is to reduce the number of seals so more people will buy crates, well, if the change has players dropping the game, who exactly is buying these crates?

I hope this is a trial balloon that will quickly be shot down.

But if the goal is to make getting seals more difficult so that more people will (theoretically) buy more crates, I think it will backfire. I support companies I like and somewhat trust. I'm not inclined to like a company that introduces endeavors as a way for people to earn crown crate items and then makes it overly difficult to do so. That would leave such a bad taste in my mouth that I wouldn't spend another penny on ESO and would consider cancelling my ESO+ sub. After all, I probably wouldn't be logging in much anyway.

WhoRU

Is there any chance that ZOS might conduct an unbiased poll of what players enjoy about the game? If so perhaps they could also publish the results. (Apologises if this has already been done?)

For example:-

1. Just solo
2. PVE dungeons normal
3. PVE dungeons vet
4. PVP (designating each type)
5. A mix of the above
6. Only 2, 3, or 4 when compelled to do so e.g. to obtain transmutation crystals, events or endeavours

I suggest the results might show that the proposed way forward for endeavors will upset a substantial number of loyal players who have, up to now, found it kept them invested in logging in daily.

thedocbwarren

I wish they split PVP and PVE from these. I love the endeavors but, personally, have no interest in PVP. Also ToT.... no thanks, should not exist in this game IMHO.

Elsonso

BergisMacBride wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Another lot on the same theme, no real surprises, just as bad as I was expecting...

Harrowstorm one is fine, all others I won't even bother with. Too much time and effort to fit around my other daily game activities.

I would not do any of them. I would simply wait to see if tomorrow's selection is better.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

FayJolyn wrote: »

So, I want to ask of you gamers;
What kind of endeavors would you actually like to see instead of the ones ZOS comes up with?

Someone mentioned fishing. ‘Catch X fish’, ‘Catch a Blue quality or better fish’ or even ‘Catch X fish in Zone Y’ as long as care was taken not to cut off non-DLC and non-ESO+ people from completing their three Endeavors. ‘Fillet X fish’ wouldn’t be terribly different from the ‘Refine X items’ Endeavors we have now. ‘Loot X pieces of bait’ would have LOTS of ways to complete for different playstyles and in different places. Fishing has been in the game for ages, is available to everyone, and above all needs more love.

Lumenn

WhoRU wrote: »

Is there any chance that ZOS might conduct an unbiased poll of what players enjoy about the game? If so perhaps they could also publish the results. (Apologises if this has already been done?)

For example:-

1. Just solo
2. PVE dungeons normal
3. PVE dungeons vet
4. PVP (designating each type)
5. A mix of the above
6. Only 2, 3, or 4 when compelled to do so e.g. to obtain transmutation crystals, events or endeavours

I suggest the results might show that the proposed way forward for endeavors will upset a substantial number of loyal players who have, up to now, found it kept them invested in logging in daily.

Well, there was an informative poll about weaving or some such awhile back. Almost 50/50 with a slight lead hating it, praising the HA attack lightning build as an alternative way to play being made more viable etc etc. So then zos nerfed empower, nerfed one of the few sets for HA build, and these notes rearranged(nerfed)lighting staff....


Polls scare me now.

Groterdan

Lol dailys were fine. Good example of dont fix stuff that ain't broken . Zos there is enough stuff broken dont change and mess stuff up that actually is working at least decent. Never understand why [snip] like this is done .

[edited for profanity bypass]

verminjerky

TL;DR: I've been a loyal customer with deep pockets for several years. I love Endeavors and I'm down to see them expanded, but making the dailies excessively difficult and time consuming will disincentivize me to spend my time - and money - in the game.

ETA: A friend pointed out that these dailies might be Undaunted-specific. If so, then I've no issue with the dungeon-specific Endeavors.

These things are starting to add up. I'm a fairly big spender on ESO. If not a whale then certainly a portly porpoise.

I don't mind the weeklies but making new dailies that will potentially take hours to complete seems like a move to make Seals more difficult to acquire.

If I don't see the value of spending my money in ESO, I'm not going to continue to do so. I have been a huge defender of Endeavors up to this point. I have always thought they were one of the best additions to the game. I have already purchased one Radiant Apex with them and have enough for two more.

But I also buy the crates. I buy the 25 pack and then I buy more to supplement it because I enjoy what I get from them.

This is a massive nerf that will result in shutting people out of them, including hardcore, daily players like me on days when I don't have hours to dedicate either A. to the game or B. to Endeavors, specifically. (Because I like playing ESO and I do lots of other things in the game including PVP, endgame content, questing, and role playing with my friends.)

Groterdan

Sigh still boggled They added that card game... Such a total waiste of time and recources on it and now forcing peeps it by option of endeavours esp with all the other horrid options. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Brightuatha

Please remember a great deal of us play solo. Please keep at least 3 endevors for solo players a day. Bethesda used to respect this before. Seems not as much lately.

Shagreth

What a stupid idea. I belong to the camp of players that likes challenging content and would love to have an option for hard overland etc. and still find this dumb. Unless the goal is to make endeavors more difficult in order to sell more crates, if that's the case then well done, Zeni.

StaceyBliss

This is awful, I’m so disappointed by these changes. This could possibly be the last straw for me, my wallet can’t take much more of the crown store!

BenevolentBowd

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Kevin , @ZOS_RichLambert

As someone who tracked endeavors since day 1 and did some analysis on the Endeavor system, here is my initial first impressions.

The four marketing points of ESO


Current System
Up to this point the current Endeavors system has done a decent job balancing PvE/PvP, Base Game / Paywalls, Group/Solo, Content Types (Events, Crafting, Battlegrounds, Legerdemain, Dark Brotherhood, Housing, etc.)







New System
Based on the [very limited] data available, the new direction of the Endeavors system seems to stray significantly from at least two of the four stated pillars of the game.

• Shift towards Paywall content from Base Game content
• Under-represented amount of Solo content
• Increased reward for PvE content
• Questing is a notable absence from the categories to date. (marketing pillar 3 - questing?)

Unfortunately, these changes shift the game to "Play Your Way™" to "Play Our Way or Enjoy the Fear of Missing Out™". Also, it is another mechanism to divide the community... Hardcore vs Casuals debate.

NoxiousBlight

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Kevin , @ZOS_RichLambert



Unfortunately, these changes shift the game to "Play Your Way™" to "Play Our Way or Enjoy the Fear of Missing Out™". Also, it is another mechanism to divide the community... Hardcore vs Casuals debate.

Thank you for everything you do Bowd. I check your website for the endeavors daily so I can know which character to log in with at the start.

Glad to see that my impending dread of these new endeavors is backed up by the data.

Sigh. Can't get over how awful these changes would be. I'll probably check your website, see these awful endeavors, then just not log in at all.

BergisMacBride

StabbityDoom wrote: »

But this one feels directly at people like me. Listen. IF YOU DO THIS YOU WILL BE ATTRACTING ONLY ONE KIND OF PLAYER - and I assure you, people my age have more money than they do. Please listen.
@ZOS_Kevin I hope these messages get to those who matter in this decision.

BRAVO, well said, Stabbity!! <standing ovation applauise>.

I've been here since launch, got into the game when I bought my daughter a copy for her 16th birthday. (Guess which one of us is still playing and paying?)

The irony is I've probably bought more crowns and crown crates from ZOS over the years than most anyone playing the game past and present, so I really don't even care how many seals of endeavor I have. I've never spent any seals and probably never will. What I do care about is ticking off that daily little achievement and sense of enjoyment I get when I do the endeavor and see the counter tick up. It doesn't mean anything at all but it is one thing that keeps me coming back every day. Little dopamine rush like someone said earlier.

I have a pretty simple playstyle. I play daily. Do writs, run surveys, do some dailies, do new zone quests, fill my trader slots, pop around to traders and houses and always do endeavors. Not much of an end game trial\progression type - that never appealed to me. Play 99.999% of the time solo. Solo some dungeons, arenas when I have time etc...rarely do group dungeons. Like to PvP from time to time as well.

@ZOS_Kevin and @ZOS_GinaBruno, you and the devs should really listen to Stabbity, she speaks for a large percentage of your loyal longterm paying playerbase. Quickest way to push us away from the game is to keep making changes exactly like this one.

OolongSnakeTea

Forcing people to do paid content for the endevour system is a bad bad idea, and it feels like a scummy marketing ploy to force either more ESO+ or 'dungeon pack purchases' on players.

Dragonredux

How did the logic of the most casual activity that anyone solo can knock out in an hour at most go to group content that takes maybe 2 hours at least to do 3.

I'm for sure not doing the Maw endeavor, Twins memes are bad enough already. The dungeons are just a blacklist of "Skip x dungeon for the day"

SaffronCitrusflower

If these endeavors go live it will decrease my interactions with the game and guarantee I'll never spend money in the crown store again. I'll probably log in a couple times/week instead of daily.

The way the endeavors are now they create an incentive to log in daily and do some simple achievements, and people almost always stick around to do other things after they're done with endeavors. If endeavors become no incentive to log in then people will be logging in less often.

These kinds of endeavors could really, really hurt the bottom line. It will have the opposite impact as what appears to be the goal.

HappyTheCamper

@BenevolentBowd God, I love what you do for the community. Please, never stop until Alduin takes us all.

Tandor

And there was me hoping that the new endeavours would just involve simple additional stuff like catching a few rare fish...

If the examples quoted here are anything to go by, my involvement with endeavours will be greatly reduced. I haven't seen a new one yet that I would want to do, none of them fits my playstyle. Mind you, reducing the amount of endeavours I bother with isn't necessarily a bad thing, they just become a habit without any particularly worthwhile reward - much like most so-called "dailies" so far as I'm concerned. Maybe it will wean me off them entirely.

simonjadis

I'd really love to believe that this is just an attempt to help players group up for group content. But I work 60-hour weeks and I have a social life. Even grouping for *any* dungeon can be a pain, as I have to wait for a friend to run Fungal Grotto I with me for the endeavor if our schedules align. This? I'm sure that there are players who can sit through a queue for three different dungeons in one day, but I'm not one of them. I can do the 350 kills in a week even if it's a little steep, but the rest? It would just kill the endeavor system, which I hope is not the intention.

Pushing dungeons is also a huge misfire for a game where a key selling point is how easy solo play is.

It doesn't help that, personally, I will never do PVP and I have no interest in Trials/Arenas. I might cave and play Tales of Tribute but I don't want to play any card game for any reason. I play video games for fun.

Really hope that they correct this long before Update 39 goes live.

Razberry9876

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Oh that's miserable.

I love the Endeavor system, but please stop giving us specific things to do. It's already a major pain point when we have to "Kill 1 delve boss in Glenumbra" and it's camped out so nobody can get a hit in, but this...?

"Run 1 dungeon" is fine. We don't need specific dungeons. We don't need specific trials. We don't need specific world events.

I'm also not a fan of trials as a daily in the first place. A trial is not something that everyone can just find 11 friends to do (especially if they pick AA as the trial, since that does need a full group). And it's not like there's a group finder to pug a trial (and pugging trials... ugh). Weekly is ok, but as a daily when people have real schedules is not as much fun. At least up to now the 'trial' daily has been constrained to Saturdays, but oof.

I was excited about new endeavors. I wouldn't mind an excuse to play ToT once in a while or go do something fun, but trying to rustle up three friends who don't share my work schedule to do BCI and then FL... that's asking a lot.

I suppose it should also be pointed out that three of those dailies require DLC: Fang Lair is from Dragon Bones, Abyssal Geysers from Summerset, and Tribute from High Isle. We've been pretty good at getting dailies where you can do all three without DLC, so this also seems a bit unfriendly.

🔼 Exactly this! These changes are too specific & will ruin a good thing.

Dayhjawk

NO just no!

1. Complete a Dungeon - just keep it this, random, or your chocie. Dont break this up!
2. Complete a trial - just leave this as a weekly, any trial.
3. Do the card game match - find long as both npc and player match can count. If I have to go and do a player match for this daily then no......

Elsonso

.

Tandor wrote: »

And there was me hoping that the new endeavours would just involve simple additional stuff like catching a few rare fish...

If the examples quoted here are anything to go by, my involvement with endeavours will be greatly reduced. I haven't seen a new one yet that I would want to do, none of them fits my playstyle. Mind you, reducing the amount of endeavours I bother with isn't necessarily a bad thing, they just become a habit without any particularly worthwhile reward - much like most so-called "dailies" so far as I'm concerned. Maybe it will wean me off them entirely.

Same here. I will have less reason to care about Endeavors than I already do.

I've been pondering and I'm not seeing the upside to this change. Yeah, there are new Endeavors, and yeah, people will collect them. I question how many. Will people step up and do these in greater numbers than today, or will this just make it so people have less reason to even check on them. I am sure they can find people who like these, but what happens if the "Blech" and "Meh" outweigh the "Yay"?

BergisMacBride

Elsonso wrote: »

. Will people step up and do these in greater numbers than today, or will this just make it so people have less reason to even check on them. I am sure they can find people who like these, but what happens if the "Blech" and "Meh" outweigh the "Yay"?

When\if it goes in like this it will most definitely be more of the Meh or Blechs.

If they think this will make them more money by increasing crown store sales, then they're most likely in for an unpleasant surprise. These changes will serve to decrease daily engagement on the part of quite a few loyal players. Less engagement > fewer logins > less opportunity to connect with the game and also see all the shiny new things from the crown store popups. I think it's actually a bad business decision .

This patch is already probably the most uninspiring one they've ever released since they changed their focus/pulled back on releases, but this nerf to endeavors is just mind-boggling in a supposed "Quality of Life" patch. Zos is just shooting themselves in the foot on this one.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

Unfortunately, these changes shift the game to "Play Your Way™" to "Play Our Way or Enjoy the Fear of Missing Out™". Also, it is another mechanism to divide the community... Hardcore vs Casuals debate.

Thank you so much @BenevolentBowd !

Loralai_907

Not a fan of the proposed changes. While I don't necessarily go out of my way to always do endeavors, that is primarily due to a huge limit on my available free time these days. Having to do a trial on a random Tuesday is 100% not going to happen for me. I dont have the energy to use my extremely limited time forced into doing hard things or forced into dealing with a bunch of people. Gaming is supposed to be fun, not be a second job. I'll just skip doing the endeavors. But, that doesn't mean I'm going to spend extra real money on stuff in the crown store. And I personally wouldn't be swayed into buying content I may not already have for a chance at "free" crown store stuff.