Has ESO finally lost its allure?

Caroloces · March 2022

ZOS would be hard pressed to find a more dedicated player than me. In the game since its inception, I’ve been a consistent subscriber, promoted the game to friends, family, and utter strangers, salivated over new chapters and eagerly shelled out my money at the first opportunity to make those purchases.

Ok, maybe that’s a bit of hyperbole. ZOS, I’m sure, would find thousands of players just like me who have been enchanted with the game since our first timid steps in Coldharbor back in the day (2014 for me). And what has kept me going these past 8 years of my life? There are really 2 essential elements for keeping me in this game for the longest period I’ve ever spent in any computer game, and believe me, at age 72, I’ve spent decades playing (anyone remember Dungeon Master on the Amiga?).

These 2 elements are: 1. The ability to play the game as if it were brand-new, with each new character I create, and 2.The ability for each new character to deepen my knowledge of ES lore through the brilliant readings and dialogues encountered in each zone of Tamriel. I've been smitten with ES since TES III Morrowind in 2002.

This recent update has basically removed the incentives I have for playing with its poor implementation of the Account Wide Achievements. Now, don’t get me wrong, the AWA could be useful and fun if it was limited to broad, general achievements like “Crime Pays” or “Give to the Poor” where characters do their part to contribute to the greater good of the account as a whole, but the essential guidepost type achievements (eg., Mages Guild and Fighter’s Guild Skill Master) are essential points of interest for guiding each character that you create. Finding that the Mages Guild Skill Master was completed by my Orc character, Mandanor, back in 2016 is basically meaningless to me today.

I understand the concerns about the performance hits that achievements take. I actually feel that I could have lived with the AWA if it had not affected the Zone Guides. The Zone Guides are truly the bedrock of character guidance in the replay value of the game. Unfortunately, the Zone Guides are connected to achievements, and now they share the same pitfalls of diminished replayability. Just logging in now, I discover that my newest character, barely created a month ago, has completed 30 unique quests in Western Skyrim (zone guide) back in 2020. He has never even entered Western Skyrim.

And they call this a Quality of Life Improvement? I think the allure is fading away. The bloom is off the rose.

S0Z0H · March 2022

Thanks for this thread. We need more detailed communication like this from dedicated players. The AWA where it stands at the moment, does diminish the allure of the game for a huge part of the community. It's very immersion breaking

vindex9ona · March 2022

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

I really suggest you to see them as "player achievements" since in the end that's what they are. You have completed those things as a player, the character you were controlling is only the medium through which you did it.

You, as the player, completed those 30 unique quests in Skyrim in 2020, and this is what the game is reflecting now. You can still re-do them all with your new character, the re-playability is still there if that's what you like to do in the game, but you've already accomplished it back then, that's all the achievement says.

Zama666 · March 2022

@Caroloces Dood, I had a Commodore 128 and Amiga 1200 (that I used till 1994).
I also played OG Morrowind. Ultima 3 got me hooked on the genre...

I have faith ZOS can change it around - updates all the time...

Little prayer to Zenithar....

Tanks for sharing!

Z

Gythral · March 2022

In a word:

YES

Khami · March 2022

For someone like me who stopped questing on alts years ago, the AWA are nice. I've been playing this game off and on since beta with more off than on during those first two plus years, but been on an almost daily basis since late 2016.

One Tamriel made the story for the game disjointed when it came to zones. With one character, I literally did it in reverse order, starting with what would have been Cadwell's gold to what should have been doing while I was 1-50.

If one is serious about leveling up champion points, they won't touch the main story until they hit 50 because that line gives great XP once you hit the CP levels.

I've only done 100% of all the quests in every zone I could find once and on my main. And had all the achievements for number of quests per zone before they nerfed the vet zones back in July 2014. There isn't enough variance of the story to do it repeatedly with 18 characters.

The stories for the zones aren't that great to begin with, story telling isn't ESO's strong suit or Bethesda's for that matter.

tmbrinks · March 2022

I will continue to get sad whenever I see these threads pop up.

So much lost, the complete decimation of a lot of players playstyles.

To gain pretty much nothing that couldn't have been accomplished by putting in an overview for those that feel the opposite.

Two major comments already in here that are just cruel and basically telling the OP to "suck it up" thinking that we all had to "lose" for them to get their AwA. I've seen more callous comments from players this past few weeks than ever before. Not a lick of empathy.

TPishek · March 2022

No.

Urvoth · March 2022

Yep, exactly this. Thanks zos for wasting thousands of hours put into individual characters to get achievements. I guess it was too hard for them to just upgrade their database instead of mandatorily destroying my character and the whole achievement hunting experience.

heaven13 · March 2022

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

I really suggest you to see them as "player achievements" since in the end that's what they are. You have completed those things as a player, the character you were controlling is only the medium through which you did it.

You, as the player, completed those 30 unique quests in Skyrim in 2020, and this is what the game is reflecting now. You can still re-do them all with your new character, the re-playability is still there if that's what you like to do in the game, but you've already accomplished it back then, that's all the achievement says.

This would be true IF ZoS had individual character tracking for completed quests and zone guides. Unfortunately, in ESO character tracking and achievements have always been one and the same. By adding “player” achievements, ZoS took away character tracking. Both could have been implemented (and in fact were for a long time due to addons) but ZoS chose the least elegant and sloppiest way forward.

ADarklore · March 2022

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance" and when they finally start trying to do just that... "oh wait, achievements are more important than performance". If servers have 'billions' of achievements to store and constantly access... I can understand how this is a HUGE drain on performance and server processes. So I applaud ZOS for trying to do whatever they can to improve performance- not only for 'today' but also so they can continue to add more content and whatever comes along with it.

As for zone guides, skyshards, etc... I'm sure, eventually, these things will be resolved as I'm sure there are another way of keeping track of these other than through achievements. Achievements are probably the EASIEST way of tracking, but I'm betting there are other ways that just need to be implemented by addon authors.

Sylvermynx · March 2022

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance" and when they finally start trying to do just that... "oh wait, achievements are more important than performance". If servers have 'billions' of achievements to store and constantly access... I can understand how this is a HUGE drain on performance and server processes. So I applaud ZOS for trying to do whatever they can to improve performance- not only for 'today' but also so they can continue to add more content and whatever comes along with it.

As for zone guides, skyshards, etc... I'm sure, eventually, these things will be resolved as I'm sure there are another way of keeping track of these other than through achievements. Achievements are probably the EASIEST way of tracking, but I'm betting there are other ways that just need to be implemented by addon authors.

That begs the question for console users though. About 2/3 of the population of players in ESO use consoles to access the game - consoles not allowed addons....

Kesstryl · March 2022

Caroloces, I 100% agree with you. I'm also a long time TES fan, and have been since The Elder Scrolls Arena back in the 90s. I came here to experience Tamriel in the second era, and have many years of exploring the stories on different alts. I've pretty much done all content except Battlegrounds. I've played Cyrodil, Imperial City, vet dungeons and trials, so I have done the gamer side of ESO. But what I loved the most were the quests and stories. For each expansion I created a new alt who was born there and became a hero of that place. I already had my Vestige who in my character canon defeated Molag Bal, and wanted other heroes who had their own stories in their parts of Tamriel. And I loved every moment of it. Everything made sense, NPCs reacted to those alts accordingly, and my love for the game kept growing.

While I'm sure this update caters to the dungeon, trial, and PvP completionist crowd (and I've been among them in progression groups), I feel like everyone else was rolled under the bus, including me. They trashed narrative cohesion and world immersion just to appeal to only one type of gamer. Somehow they think this is healthy for the game. If Account Wide Achievements had been done differently and not so intrusively, it could have been a win for everyone. I understand there "might" be performance improvements with account wide achievements, and I think many things could have been moved account side without destroying immersion. All they had to do was put in extra work to move many things that flag off the achievements to flag off quest completion. I mean each character still has something tracking their quests, lore books, skyshards, etc. Had they set more things to flag off this, they could have spared the most horrible parts of this update and the gamer completionist crowd would have been happy, and the rest of us could still immerse in the world we know and love.

I haven't logged into any of my alts on live yet, and don't know if I can bring myself to do so. I might play on PTS from time to time as that's the only place I will ever be able to play with a fresh account each cycle since I don't have EU characters. Speaking of PTS, many of us there tried so hard and begged ZOS so hard to either rework and delay this update to address all these things, but they not only didn't listen to our feedback, they didn't even acknowledge it. Now I see myself fading like a soul shriven from this game and waiting however many years until TES 6 comes out.

[snip]

[edited for rude commentary]

heaven13 · March 2022

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance" and when they finally start trying to do just that... "oh wait, achievements are more important than performance". If servers have 'billions' of achievements to store and constantly access... I can understand how this is a HUGE drain on performance and server processes. So I applaud ZOS for trying to do whatever they can to improve performance- not only for 'today' but also so they can continue to add more content and whatever comes along with it.

As for zone guides, skyshards, etc... I'm sure, eventually, these things will be resolved as I'm sure there are another way of keeping track of these other than through achievements. Achievements are probably the EASIEST way of tracking, but I'm betting there are other ways that just need to be implemented by addon authors.

Fixed by addon authors is NOT an acceptable solution to bugs brought to ZoS’s attention week 1 of PTS that haven’t even been acknowledged as bugs 6 weeks later.

Folkb · March 2022

The only thing I don't like is that add ons aren't showing me the shards I still need on alts and bosses that I need to kill, other than that, not in the mood to do master angler on more toons lol.

tmbrinks · March 2022

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance" and when they finally start trying to do just that... "oh wait, achievements are more important than performance". If servers have 'billions' of achievements to store and constantly access... I can understand how this is a HUGE drain on performance and server processes. So I applaud ZOS for trying to do whatever they can to improve performance- not only for 'today' but also so they can continue to add more content and whatever comes along with it.

As for zone guides, skyshards, etc... I'm sure, eventually, these things will be resolved as I'm sure there are another way of keeping track of these other than through achievements. Achievements are probably the EASIEST way of tracking, but I'm betting there are other ways that just need to be implemented by addon authors.

The total storage space for all the achievements in the game is likely under 5 TB of data (given my conversation with an add-on creator who looked into ZoS's storage of achievements and a projection of the number of players in the game).

If a billion dollar company can't manage a 5 TB database in a world of Petabytes of data, then this game is as good as cooked.

If they were actually doing it for performance improvements they would have shouted that from the mountains at the reveal. It was only added in as a footnote in the Q&A when they knew they had opened a can of worms, so they went back to their favorite response that's been said a dozen times, with no noticeable improvement in performance as of yet.

AcadianPaladin · March 2022

I count myself among those in favor of AWA. I’ve been playing the same little elf since 2007 in Oblivion, who (after mastering time travel) migrated to Skyrim, and currently makes her home in ESO. Unlike TES IV &V, ESO lacks the build flexibility (due to multiplayer ‘balance’ I presume) to reflect the depth of her skills. Therefore, she exists as multiple classes/specs, where her race, appearance, etc is identical. Our approach is that these ‘alts’ literally are the same character and she moves among classes as casually as she changes hairstyles or outfits. So, AWA is a perfect fit for her. I do not do PTS (not paid to be a beta tester) and have only been playing U33 for a couple days so I cannot speak to some of the details of implementation where I expect there is room for refining away some unintended consequences.

As far as the larger direction of the game, as a PvE soloist, I remain quite satisfied. Jewelry crafting, the outfitting system, the stickerbook and recreation of known pieces, companions are all very nice additions. And the game remains quite solo-friendly (a must for me). As one who loves classic medieval fantasy, I confess that, to date, I have found every one of the original zones to be superior to any DLC/Chapter zone. Therefore, I’m pleased to see what ZoS calls a return to a more traditional environment with the year of the Breton (as opposed to the burned out hells of Oblivion or the steampunk of Sotha Sil).

KMarble · March 2022

Folkb wrote: »

The only thing I don't like is that add ons aren't showing me the shards I still need on alts and bosses that I need to kill, other than that, not in the mood to do master angler on more toons lol.

The add ons that did that won't work anymore because they collect data from the server. All individual character data was added together when U33 went live and we now only have "player" data*.

Going forward I doubt there will be any add on that will be able to do what you want because the data isn't there anymore.

*For the most part. There are a few exceptions.

dinokstrunz · March 2022

Yeah it lost its allure a while back with terrible change after terrible change. ZoS just seems lost & confused with bad decision after bad decision. From AwA being implemented in such a humiliating fashion to confusing & questionable combat changes. I honestly can't remember the last positive update this game received. I would like to know what the Devs think about this humiliating mess of game right now.

NeKryXe · March 2022

I don't understand the point of the Account Wide Achievements. I always saw it as a way for us to know, easily, what we did or not in each character. Now it feels harder to track it. Or, I'm just not adapted yet. All my characters have the same achievement points... it's a huge, huge mess. It takes a lot of time to identify what we didn't complete in each character and when we complete it it doesn't even feel rewarding.

We need at least an addon to help us with this mess.

tmbrinks · March 2022

NeKryXe wrote: »

I don't understand the point of the Account Wide Achievements. I always saw it as a way for us to know, easily, what we did or not in each character. Now it feels harder to track it. Or, I'm just not adapted yet. All my characters have the same achievement points... it's a huge, huge mess. It takes a lot of time to identify what we didn't complete in each character and when we complete it it doesn't even feel rewarding.

We need at least an addon to help us with this mess.

Unless you downloaded an add-on prior to U33 being installed, the tracking is gone. Your character achievements (save for the few that are still character bound) were overwritten by the collective total of your account.

Addons can't save it. Unless ZoS adds in new API functionality, and then they'd likely lose any of the performance gains (which I'm highly skeptical actually exist)

NeKryXe · March 2022

btw... I don't mind much to deal with this mess on my alt characters, but we should be able to disable this Account Wide Achievements stupidity on our main character. It ruined a lot my will to play.

Caroloces · March 2022

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

Prior to this update, my lovely Orc, Mandanor, did not "forget" that he had achieved Mages Guild Skill Master. It was evident in his achievements. If I logged onto a different character, I would see that character's achievements, and not Mandanor's. I was a classroom teacher before I retired. If I gave "Johnny" a 100 on a spelling test, that score was not forgotten once I gave "Jane" an 85. It would be ludicrous to give "Johnny" a 100 on his test and have that show up as the score for all of my students! And that is exactly the scenario that is taking place in ESO with this update.

peacenote · March 2022

OP, thanks for your story. I think it's important for people to continue sharing their views, even if it is too late to reverse, because possibly we can at least hope, with enough ongoing feedback, that any other changes along these lines are implemented more thoughtfully and with more engagement with the community.

To answer your question, yes, some of the charm is definitely gone for me. My friend and I went through both dungeons today, because he is a tank and needed the gear. Between the two of us, with me giving him my pieces, he got everything needed in a couple of runs. Halfway through the "farm" I thought about suggesting that we switch toons, to do the dungeons on our alts... and then I realized that, unless they need the skyshards, it no longer mattered. I had already gotten the completion achievement. The alts will no longer get the pop ups, I can't know who has and hasn't done them yet when I don't exactly remember, and there is basically no reason to try and do them on multiple toons.

A whole release of two dungeons and now I'm basically done with it in one day, except for the time I'll spend unlocking the other achievements in there once, on my main. Which will probably take one or two additional play sessions.

I did also mention this on the PTS thread, but I chose to log into my characters is mostly backwards order, to reduce the chance that an alt would get a "major" achievement. I used the "Level 50 Hero" achievement to check whether achievements were, indeed, overwriting. They were. At first it was fun... because I was surprised a few times when a character I thought was "older" didn't overwrite someone's date. Then, when I got to my main, and she overwrote all of the steps in that achievement with her date, and all the names, it made me so sad. The dates I achieved level 50 on all of those characters are now gone. Erased. And the enjoyment I had for one second re-discovering which characters I leveled, in what order, is gone forever, never to be experienced again.

(Well, unless I were to make another account or accounts for alts going forward, which is the absolute last thing I would ever do at this point... definitely not supporting the company which erased all of my character dates and memories with more purchases. Imagine the irony, though... something meant to encourage account-wide play pushes players to carry multiple accounts with one character each on them.

And yes, I know that it was always me doing the actions. But I have fond memories tied to when I was playing each one and leveling them. Those dates were meaningful.)

Caroloces · March 2022

Folkb wrote: »

The only thing I don't like is that add ons aren't showing me the shards I still need on alts and bosses that I need to kill, other than that, not in the mood to do master angler on more toons lol.

Neither am I. Just because an achievement exists doesn't mean you have to complete it.

NeKryXe · March 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

I don't understand the point of the Account Wide Achievements. I always saw it as a way for us to know, easily, what we did or not in each character. Now it feels harder to track it. Or, I'm just not adapted yet. All my characters have the same achievement points... it's a huge, huge mess. It takes a lot of time to identify what we didn't complete in each character and when we complete it it doesn't even feel rewarding.

We need at least an addon to help us with this mess.

Unless you downloaded an add-on prior to U33 being installed, the tracking is gone. Your character achievements (save for the few that are still character bound) were overwritten by the collective total of your account.

Addons can't save it. Unless ZoS adds in new API functionality, and then they'd likely lose any of the performance gains (which I'm highly skeptical actually exist)

That's really sad. What a huge mess! I really don't understand the point of this big downgrade.

Kesstryl · March 2022

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I count myself among those in favor of AWA. I’ve been playing the same little elf since 2007 in Oblivion, who (after mastering time travel) migrated to Skyrim, and currently makes her home in ESO. Unlike TES IV &V, ESO lacks the build flexibility (due to multiplayer ‘balance’ I presume) to reflect the depth of her skills. Therefore, she exists as multiple classes/specs, where her race, appearance, etc is identical. Our approach is that these ‘alts’ literally are the same character and she moves among classes as casually as she changes hairstyles or outfits. So, AWA is a perfect fit for her. I do not do PTS (not paid to be a beta tester) and have only been playing U33 for a couple days so I cannot speak to some of the details of implementation where I expect there is room for refining away some unintended consequences.

As far as the larger direction of the game, as a PvE soloist, I remain quite satisfied. Jewelry crafting, the outfitting system, the stickerbook and recreation of known pieces, companions are all very nice additions. And the game remains quite solo-friendly (a must for me). As one who loves classic medieval fantasy, I confess that, to date, I have found every one of the original zones to be superior to any DLC/Chapter zone. Therefore, I’m pleased to see what ZoS calls a return to a more traditional environment with the year of the Breton (as opposed to the burned out hells of Oblivion or the steampunk of Sotha Sil).

I appreciate your creativity and ability to continue to RP through this, but can you at least have enough imagination to have empathy for many of us who have different characters that are their own unique individuals who are right now experiencing either the madness of Sheogorath or a Dragon Break?

All of my alts (60 total at this point) are their individual selves. Personally, I'm not fussed with the stuff about AWA. I know every one of my alts, I know what they have and haven't done, I know which skyshards they've all found, etc etc - because I have that kind of memory for detail.

Now, I DO have empathy for you and others like you. I've said so various times. I wish this balls-up stuff hadn't happened and that all of you were happy for a new chapter. But personally, it's not affecting me, so I'm not a particularly good "advocate".

I hope that things change somehow over time so that you will be in a happier place....

Thank you, you have my admiration.

Vulkunne · March 2022

Caroloces wrote: »

ZOS would be hard pressed to find a more dedicated player than me. In the game since its inception, I’ve been a consistent subscriber, promoted the game to friends, family, and utter strangers, salivated over new chapters and eagerly shelled out my money at the first opportunity to make those purchases.

Ok, maybe that’s a bit of hyperbole. ZOS, I’m sure, would find thousands of players just like me who have been enchanted with the game since our first timid steps in Coldharbor back in the day (2014 for me). And what has kept me going these past 8 years of my life? There are really 2 essential elements for keeping me in this game for the longest period I’ve ever spent in any computer game, and believe me, at age 72, I’ve spent decades playing (anyone remember Dungeon Master on the Amiga?).

These 2 elements are: 1. The ability to play the game as if it were brand-new, with each new character I create, and 2.The ability for each new character to deepen my knowledge of ES lore through the brilliant readings and dialogues encountered in each zone of Tamriel. I've been smitten with ES since TES III Morrowind in 2002.

This recent update has basically removed the incentives I have for playing with its poor implementation of the Account Wide Achievements. Now, don’t get me wrong, the AWA could be useful and fun if it was limited to broad, general achievements like “Crime Pays” or “Give to the Poor” where characters do their part to contribute to the greater good of the account as a whole, but the essential guidepost type achievements (eg., Mages Guild and Fighter’s Guild Skill Master) are essential points of interest for guiding each character that you create. Finding that the Mages Guild Skill Master was completed by my Orc character, Mandanor, back in 2016 is basically meaningless to me today.

I understand the concerns about the performance hits that achievements take. I actually feel that I could have lived with the AWA if it had not affected the Zone Guides. The Zone Guides are truly the bedrock of character guidance in the replay value of the game. Unfortunately, the Zone Guides are connected to achievements, and now they share the same pitfalls of diminished replayability. Just logging in now, I discover that my newest character, barely created a month ago, has completed 30 unique quests in Western Skyrim (zone guide) back in 2020. He has never even entered Western Skyrim.

And they call this a Quality of Life Improvement? I think the allure is fading away. The bloom is off the rose.

Well a bunch of us tried like hell to convince them this was a bad idea and why. And we did this by -not- using manipulative sort of means, or by making people feel guilty or otherwise burdened for the way they feel. Please don't get us mistaken with anyone else cause we advocated for people to continue to be free to choose, even if there's a cost to it, even if others have to wait on features they want to see and no it may not be right but its better than other people choosing for you. Which is the same as saying the ability for someone to make a different choice alone is something that should have priority over other things.

So what's going to have to happen now is we're all stuck with the consequences and ESO inacts another strange, really unpopular change, they've gotten away with it again and you know what... they're going to keep on doing it. Though, those of you hurt by this have my sympathies, you really do. And so, with that said I probably shouldn't say what we suspect will be done by all those new resources opened up when they shelled out the souls of everyone's characters. They took all those hours you invested your heart and soul and money and traded it all for... a card game as I understand it.

I sleep very well at night, having fought the good fight, having nothing to do with this decision by ZOS.

Edited for Clarification.

vindex9ona · March 2022

Caroloces wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

Prior to this update, my lovely Orc, Mandanor, did not "forget" that he had achieved Mages Guild Skill Master. It was evident in his achievements. If I logged onto a different character, I would see that character's achievements, and not Mandanor's. I was a classroom teacher before I retired. If I gave "Johnny" a 100 on a spelling test, that score was not forgotten once I gave "Jane" an 85. It would be ludicrous to give "Johnny" a 100 on his test and have that show up as the score for all of my students! And that is exactly the scenario that is taking place in ESO with this update.

This is an online game. At some point the servers will be shut down forever and all characters and their achievements will be lost.
Our comments have nothing to do with cruelty or lack of empathy, but with an healthy relationship with life and the difference between a game and reality.

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.
[snip]

[snip]

[Minor edit for nonconstructive comment.]

Vulkunne · March 2022

vindex9ona wrote: »

Caroloces wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

Prior to this update, my lovely Orc, Mandanor, did not "forget" that he had achieved Mages Guild Skill Master. It was evident in his achievements. If I logged onto a different character, I would see that character's achievements, and not Mandanor's. I was a classroom teacher before I retired. If I gave "Johnny" a 100 on a spelling test, that score was not forgotten once I gave "Jane" an 85. It would be ludicrous to give "Johnny" a 100 on his test and have that show up as the score for all of my students! And that is exactly the scenario that is taking place in ESO with this update.

This is an online game. At some point the servers will be shut down forever and all characters and their achievements will be lost.
Our comments have nothing to do with cruelty or lack of empathy, but with an healthy relationship with life and the difference between a game and reality.

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.
For your own good, I hope you won't attach too many feelings to your characters, as it can never end well.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no "Johnny" and no "Jane" here as separate entities, I hope you realize that it's always you playing all those characters beyond a healthy level of immersion, and therefore all those "votes" regarding what you did and how well you did it can go to you as the player.

You don't understand fam. Please don't be so critical of others feelings. This is exactly why something like this should never have been done because now what was I'm sure a big part of ESO gaming pool is now open to ridicule, as is their way of life. So not only have characters lost a notable chunk of their individual identity, it as if you're a fool too for ever imagining them as having one ... innnn in the first place or wanting to explore another fantasy world and take a healthy break from 'reality'. Sad that this is even an issue in this day and age when we all know why it should never even have been considered for learned reasons that are so common its almost laughable if it weren't such a serious problem.

Wow this could damage the game in more ways than anyone could have ever imagined. I sincerely hope whomever wanted this done, stuck to their guns, completely ignored other options and the players begging them not to do this, I hope you are satisfied.

NeKryXe · March 2022

Vulkunne wrote: »

Caroloces wrote: »

ZOS would be hard pressed to find a more dedicated player than me. In the game since its inception, I’ve been a consistent subscriber, promoted the game to friends, family, and utter strangers, salivated over new chapters and eagerly shelled out my money at the first opportunity to make those purchases.

Ok, maybe that’s a bit of hyperbole. ZOS, I’m sure, would find thousands of players just like me who have been enchanted with the game since our first timid steps in Coldharbor back in the day (2014 for me). And what has kept me going these past 8 years of my life? There are really 2 essential elements for keeping me in this game for the longest period I’ve ever spent in any computer game, and believe me, at age 72, I’ve spent decades playing (anyone remember Dungeon Master on the Amiga?).

These 2 elements are: 1. The ability to play the game as if it were brand-new, with each new character I create, and 2.The ability for each new character to deepen my knowledge of ES lore through the brilliant readings and dialogues encountered in each zone of Tamriel. I've been smitten with ES since TES III Morrowind in 2002.

This recent update has basically removed the incentives I have for playing with its poor implementation of the Account Wide Achievements. Now, don’t get me wrong, the AWA could be useful and fun if it was limited to broad, general achievements like “Crime Pays” or “Give to the Poor” where characters do their part to contribute to the greater good of the account as a whole, but the essential guidepost type achievements (eg., Mages Guild and Fighter’s Guild Skill Master) are essential points of interest for guiding each character that you create. Finding that the Mages Guild Skill Master was completed by my Orc character, Mandanor, back in 2016 is basically meaningless to me today.

I understand the concerns about the performance hits that achievements take. I actually feel that I could have lived with the AWA if it had not affected the Zone Guides. The Zone Guides are truly the bedrock of character guidance in the replay value of the game. Unfortunately, the Zone Guides are connected to achievements, and now they share the same pitfalls of diminished replayability. Just logging in now, I discover that my newest character, barely created a month ago, has completed 30 unique quests in Western Skyrim (zone guide) back in 2020. He has never even entered Western Skyrim.

And they call this a Quality of Life Improvement? I think the allure is fading away. The bloom is off the rose.

Well a bunch of us tried like hell to convince them this was a bad idea and why.

So what's going to have to happen now is we're all stuck with the consequences and ESO inacts another strange, really unpopular change, they've gotten away with it again and you know what... they're going to keep on doing it.

Though, those of you hurt by this have my sympathies, you really do. And so, with that said I probably shouldn't say what we suspect will be done by all those new resources opened up when they shelled out the souls of everyone's characters. They took all those hours you invested your heart and soul and money and traded it all for... a card game as I understand it.

I sleep very well at night btw cause I had nothing to do with this.

I absolutely remember a lot of discussions here about Account Wide Achievements but I also remember that most people hated the idea. I always thought that this was something safe. The achievements were a way to track the progression on each of our characters. I have 10 characters, I lost track of everything.