Has ESO finally lost its allure?

SilverBride · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

show previous quotes

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The stories are still there. They have not changed. Nothing ruined.

Imagine that every summer you and your family take a road trip across the country. Even though you've taken the same trip before you really look forward to revisiting the places that you enjoyed. But now your roadmap has been taken away from you and you have no way to track where you have been or where you still need to go to experience the full trip again.

Sure, the places are still there...

The map is still there. I have opened it up and see it clearly. TES is much about searching the map for areas to quest. The stories are still there. So the road trip rocks as it always has though some of the stories do lose their luster after playing them a few times.

The map is there but it's all filled in. Places I haven't completed on my character show complete. What good is an inaccurate map?

Saieden · March 2022

For me, my goal was really just to beat hardmodes on all 3 roles, and have a bit of fun with some side activities and fashion along the way. All the hours of farming content for gear and transmutes, and making gold through the guild trader economy, was just to fund this goal. I had already been spending most of my time in game on these funding activities rather than practicing parses and actually doing the content I really wanted to.

So how do achievements effect me? They are (were) my personal benchmark for each role. They were the only way I had to track how far along I was, because I only have one toon in each role, and to me, all 3 are Mains. My time is limited, and ESO already demanded much of it to keep up, so having to now track something via some external means, because the devs are incapable of maintaining their (extremely profitable) software properly, is simply unacceptable to me.

So now I play FF14 and I truly understand what an MMO feels like when the creators and devs really do listen to and care for their playerbase. It's night and day.

heaven13 · March 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

iyx · March 2022

This patch is just incredibly buggy. In a few hours of playing, I've already encountered a bug with map markers turning black, camera is wonky, and my ping jumps several times in some locations. Ok, and I had to put my main on hiatus indefinitely so that my alt progression would be the same as it was before the patch.
I can live with the downgrading of content, but when content goes live (after two months of discussion on the PTS forum, yes) broken to an almost unplayable stage, that doesn't seem acceptable to me.

Tremuto · March 2022

ESO lost its allure when they patched out Mystic Orb spam.

ectoplasmicninja · March 2022

My position on this continues to be largely indifferent. Account wide titles are convenient for me, as I only use titles I find appropriate for the character I'm playing, and the amalgamation of achievement progress is also convenient for me (looking at you, monster trophies achievements). Tracking my characters' progress through the various stories in the world has become more difficult but not impossible - I can check the zone guide, make my own notes, etc. I still consider them all to have their own identity as individuals regardless of what the achievements read, so I don't have a problem with that, but I do dislike how characters that are not members of the Dark Brotherhood will be recognized as members by NPCs, etc. I haven't been able to check whether the overlapping characters issues from the PTS are still happening on live yet so I can't speak on that.

The real annoyance for me is those epilogues and NPC encounters that new characters will now be denied. That scene at the end of Markarth (you all know what I mean) is one of my favourites in the game. I love the characters and I loved the way the story played out and the bonds that formed and I love *that* moment...and it is currently not a thing that I can experience again. That's just not acceptable to me. I can live with everything else, although I feel for everyone who can't and I wish it had been implemented differently for your sake, but this is not okay.

Most perturbingly, I haven't seen any acknowledgement from ZOS that this is something they intend to address. It may be a comparatively small issue, but I think enough folks have complained about it that it warrants an official response, even if it's just to say "hey guys, this was an undesirable consequence of the update and we are looking into fixing it in a future patch but can't give a timeline".

Tandor · March 2022

sarahthes wrote: »

Those of us who don't mind the changes also deserve to be heard, that's the main reason I'm posting on this thread.

I was actually very against account wide achievements before ZOS announced it but I'm totally okay with it now that it's been implemented.

Game updates always release with bugs because I don't think there's a company out there that has the resources to release a bug-free product. Some are better than ZOS, some are considerably worse. Do I think this could have been rolled out better? Yes. Do I think it's a disaster that makes the game unplayable because of a handful of scenarios that will most likely be fixed in the coming weeks? No.

Absolutely you have the right to be heard, and I think more people might be inclined to agree with you that there are just a handful of scenarios that you're confident will be fixed in the coming weeks if ZOS were to give even the slightest indication that they acknowledged the issues with those scenarios and were fully intending to work on them. However, all they have provided thus far is a wall of silence notwithstanding all the pleas for clarification on their intentions and for delay in the changes' implementation while they dealt with those scenarios, because we all recognised that once this went live it was most likely to be beyond reversal or significant change.

Melivar · March 2022

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2022

heaven13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

If you have read any of my MANY MANY comments on this subject, I have always said that they should leave character pages exactly how they are and add a separate account wide achievement tab. This keeps it nice for both types of alt players. If you want it fresh, great, if you want to see total progress, also great. I have also said that they should leave titles to characters. That means no level 3 godslayers, and it keeps end game community engaged as people hunt down trifectas on multiple toons.

Clearly, they didnt go that way, and certainly I wish they would have, but that ship has sailed. That said, I significantly prefer this to the old system. If this was the only option for AWA, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

Melivar wrote: »

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Right there with ya.

heaven13 · March 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

If you have read any of my MANY MANY comments on this subject, I have always said that they should leave character pages exactly how they are and add a separate account wide achievement tab. This keeps it nice for both types of alt players. If you want it fresh, great, if you want to see total progress, also great. I have also said that they should leave titles to characters. That means no level 3 godslayers, and it keeps end game community engaged as people hunt down trifectas on multiple toons.

Clearly, they didnt go that way, and certainly I wish they would have, but that ship has sailed. That said, I significantly prefer this to the old system. If this was the only option for AWA, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

show previous quotes

Melivar wrote: »

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Right there with ya.

I’m sure I have read your posts and I apologize if I made it seem like I was coming down on you in particular. I don’t want people to feel bad for enjoying the update, just as I don’t think anyone should be made to feel bad about negative feelings either. Your feelings on the matter are just as valid as mine. I’m just bitter and angry that ZoS has seemingly pitted players against each other (or rather that we’re doing it for them) when we could have had the best of both. It just sucks. So again, please accept my apologies if my statement made you feel as though I was lashing out at you individually.

sarahthes · March 2022

Some of us want our level 3 Godslayers. All my Godslayers are on the same character anyway, might as well spread around the love a bit.

karekiz · March 2022

BRO I hate Morrowind Resource patch too. Literally KILLED endgame guilds. Nobody ain't got time to Heavy Attack.

Huyen · March 2022

Caroloces wrote: »

ZOS would be hard pressed to find a more dedicated player than me. In the game since its inception, I’ve been a consistent subscriber, promoted the game to friends, family, and utter strangers, salivated over new chapters and eagerly shelled out my money at the first opportunity to make those purchases.

Ok, maybe that’s a bit of hyperbole. ZOS, I’m sure, would find thousands of players just like me who have been enchanted with the game since our first timid steps in Coldharbor back in the day (2014 for me). And what has kept me going these past 8 years of my life? There are really 2 essential elements for keeping me in this game for the longest period I’ve ever spent in any computer game, and believe me, at age 72, I’ve spent decades playing (anyone remember Dungeon Master on the Amiga?).

These 2 elements are: 1. The ability to play the game as if it were brand-new, with each new character I create, and 2.The ability for each new character to deepen my knowledge of ES lore through the brilliant readings and dialogues encountered in each zone of Tamriel. I've been smitten with ES since TES III Morrowind in 2002.

This recent update has basically removed the incentives I have for playing with its poor implementation of the Account Wide Achievements. Now, don’t get me wrong, the AWA could be useful and fun if it was limited to broad, general achievements like “Crime Pays” or “Give to the Poor” where characters do their part to contribute to the greater good of the account as a whole, but the essential guidepost type achievements (eg., Mages Guild and Fighter’s Guild Skill Master) are essential points of interest for guiding each character that you create. Finding that the Mages Guild Skill Master was completed by my Orc character, Mandanor, back in 2016 is basically meaningless to me today.

I understand the concerns about the performance hits that achievements take. I actually feel that I could have lived with the AWA if it had not affected the Zone Guides. The Zone Guides are truly the bedrock of character guidance in the replay value of the game. Unfortunately, the Zone Guides are connected to achievements, and now they share the same pitfalls of diminished replayability. Just logging in now, I discover that my newest character, barely created a month ago, has completed 30 unique quests in Western Skyrim (zone guide) back in 2020. He has never even entered Western Skyrim.

And they call this a Quality of Life Improvement? I think the allure is fading away. The bloom is off the rose.

No, this isnt an "I quit the game!" rant or anything like it. But I decided to stop playing for now, even that I have bought the game on the XBOX less then 2 months ago. Why should I dedicate myself to making more then one character like stated above?

Caroloces · March 2022

As the septuagenarian who initiated this thread, I have some thoughts (for what they're worth) on the plight we're in and a possible way forward.

At the heart of this issue are 2 different ways of viewing achievements. Some players view them as goals; some view them as guideposts. I think it helpful if we take a step back and try to view the gaming pleasure that is derived from each style of play, and show empathy for those who play in a different manner than we do. For the goal-oriented, achievements are there as goals to be reached, and the dopamine rush for doing so will be more easily gained if all characters in an account strive together to reach those goals. Account Wide Achievements are therefore a blessing and a boon to the game. For the Guidepost-oriented player, achievements are there to help develop the individual characters in one's account develop and grow in similar or different ways. Achievements are "consulted" to help the player decide which activities should be pursued to help characters emerge and grow into distinct individuals. The dopamine rush occurs in the logical and elegant way one can play the game and promote each character's development, and the feeling that the game is filled with new possibilities.
In the implementation of AWA, Zos made the mistake of reformulating most of the achievements so they would cater to and please the goal-oriented style of player without any regard for the guidepost-oriented player. This is unfortunate because a great many achievements truly are individual guideposts (progress in the main story chapters, as an example). There are also many achievements that are well-suited for goal-oriented players (master angler?). Even though I'm a guidepost type of player, I could see myself enjoying the pursuit of an achievement goal like master angler with all my toons!
The ideal would be to create a system in which you have both types of achievements, but unfortunately, the monkey wrench in such an ideal is the need to streamline performance so as more content is added, the game doesn't get bogged down by a bloated database.

So at the risk of straining my welcome in this post, here are my thoughts on how Zos could attempt to remediate this conundrum:

First and foremost, detach the zone guide from achievements, and make it a more robust tool for players to use in character progression. There should be nothing in the zone guide that smacks of completion if the individual character has not achieved that element, whatever it is.
There's a heck of a lot of achievements in the game. Is it possible to whittle these down, consolidate some, to help improve performance? To me, one of the ludicrous things that got my goat was to see the Mages Guild Skill Master achievement (a guidepost type) completed back in 2016 on one of my early characters. This does nothing for me in 2022, especially when I'm working to progress newer characters in that skill line!
A shot in the dark, but hey! What the heck: If performance is such a concern, is it within the realm of possibility to make database elements of the game, like achievements, be client-based, rather than server-based?
Finally, Zos should establish a form of the PTS that is constant and ongoing to test and evaluate the game as a whole. Perhaps a select and rotating roster of players would be allowed admittance and a channel created for direct communication between Zos devs and these players to monitor the health of the game. I believe the problem of AWA implentation in this patch had a lot to do with the way it was rushed through to meet the patch deadline. A more considerate and methodical way to make changes like this would be to allow more stakeholders (players!) to be an important part of the process, and not allow release unless the implementation was fine-tuned and ready.

Anyway, I've said my piece on this issue. I believe it's time for a break from Tamriel. My sub renews in May so I'll check back then to see if there's any type of future for me in ESO. Thanks all!

Arunei · March 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

ESO was never marketed as a PvP game, though. It was a PvE game with a considerable focus on PvP, but let's not try to paint the game as being advertised as something it never was to fit a narrative. It's not really needed when there are a lot of other things to focus on, like the repeated "we're working on communication" without too much improvement in that field (Kevin has been awesome but he's only one person) or how many times they say they're working on performance with no real gains on the player end over the last few years. And now we have them saying that they have to remove existing data (character achievements) to make room for new data essentially.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2022

heaven13 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

If you have read any of my MANY MANY comments on this subject, I have always said that they should leave character pages exactly how they are and add a separate account wide achievement tab. This keeps it nice for both types of alt players. If you want it fresh, great, if you want to see total progress, also great. I have also said that they should leave titles to characters. That means no level 3 godslayers, and it keeps end game community engaged as people hunt down trifectas on multiple toons.

Clearly, they didnt go that way, and certainly I wish they would have, but that ship has sailed. That said, I significantly prefer this to the old system. If this was the only option for AWA, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

Melivar wrote: »

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Right there with ya.

I’m sure I have read your posts and I apologize if I made it seem like I was coming down on you in particular. I don’t want people to feel bad for enjoying the update, just as I don’t think anyone should be made to feel bad about negative feelings either. Your feelings on the matter are just as valid as mine. I’m just bitter and angry that ZoS has seemingly pitted players against each other (or rather that we’re doing it for them) when we could have had the best of both. It just sucks. So again, please accept my apologies if my statement made you feel as though I was lashing out at you individually.

Totally fair. I have wanted AWA since forever, but to your point I give the implementation about a C-.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2022

Arunei wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

ESO was never marketed as a PvP game, though. It was a PvE game with a considerable focus on PvP, but let's not try to paint the game as being advertised as something it never was to fit a narrative. It's not really needed when there are a lot of other things to focus on, like the repeated "we're working on communication" without too much improvement in that field (Kevin has been awesome but he's only one person) or how many times they say they're working on performance with no real gains on the player end over the last few years. And now we have them saying that they have to remove existing data (character achievements) to make room for new data essentially.

Maybe not exclusively, but they leaned into the large scale AvAvA PVP battles very aggressively in their early marketing efforts. They have certainly pivoted pretty hard away from that concept, but it was definitely there early on.

kargen27 · March 2022

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

show previous quotes

kargen27 wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

I really suggest you to see them as "player achievements" since in the end that's what they are. You have completed those things as a player, the character you were controlling is only the medium through which you did it.

You, as the player, completed those 30 unique quests in Skyrim in 2020, and this is what the game is reflecting now. You can still re-do them all with your new character, the re-playability is still there if that's what you like to do in the game, but you've already accomplished it back then, that's all the achievement says.

People keep saying this but you could not complete anything without a character. It is a team effort between you and your character. Letting another character take credit for something it was not involved with seems wrong. That aside I really wanted to eventually finish the hunter trophies on my main. I was getting really close. When I had some time waiting for trials or some other event to start I would spend time slaughtering mass amounts of something to earn a trophy. I might not give it a go for a month or more and then spend an hour or so for a few days in a row.
The change finished those achievements for me. None of my characters earned them and now none can. I don't feel like I earned them or any sense of accomplishment knowing across my account they are finished. Not done as that implies I did them but finished in that they no longer exist to be done.
Same with fishing. I had multiple characters working toward becoming a master. Now they are all masters and some of them have never seen a pole.
I understand why some wanted account wide achievements. They play different than I do. The problem is the game has been wrecked for me to make it better?? for them. I don't understand why their play style is suddenly deemed so much more important than mine.
They say it is because of performance issues. I hope that is true and we see significant improvement. If not then it was and is the worst move made by the team so far. They have alienated a lot of players and taken away a very popular way to play our way.

Eh I can use your characters to get the same achievements. They are mere tools.

and until you do they shouldn't have the achievements. About tools. A screwdriver isn't used to drive nails simply because it was in the same box as the hammer.

duagloth · March 2022

It losts its allure a long time ago. Not sure it ever had it, no one i know will even give it a chance,even with the base game being dirt cheap. 😆

dinokstrunz · March 2022

Arunei wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

ESO was never marketed as a PvP game, though. It was a PvE game with a considerable focus on PvP, but let's not try to paint the game as being advertised as something it never was to fit a narrative. It's not really needed when there are a lot of other things to focus on, like the repeated "we're working on communication" without too much improvement in that field (Kevin has been awesome but he's only one person) or how many times they say they're working on performance with no real gains on the player end over the last few years. And now we have them saying that they have to remove existing data (character achievements) to make room for new data essentially.

All I remember when the game was being beta tested was Cyrodiil being the major focal point. Cyrodiil was the only thing that really galvanized any attention from the MMO corner.

I don't buy any of their excuses regarding AwA, it all just sounds baloney to me. But years of false promises will do that (5+ years now) on consistant disappointment with this game. Is it no shock that hype for this games future content fell flat on its face, people have simply stopped caring about ESO and it shows from the developers too. People have given up with this game that's 100% for sure.

Arunei · March 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

Arunei wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

ESO was never marketed as a PvP game, though. It was a PvE game with a considerable focus on PvP, but let's not try to paint the game as being advertised as something it never was to fit a narrative. It's not really needed when there are a lot of other things to focus on, like the repeated "we're working on communication" without too much improvement in that field (Kevin has been awesome but he's only one person) or how many times they say they're working on performance with no real gains on the player end over the last few years. And now we have them saying that they have to remove existing data (character achievements) to make room for new data essentially.

Maybe not exclusively, but they leaned into the large scale AvAvA PVP battles very aggressively in their early marketing efforts. They have certainly pivoted pretty hard away from that concept, but it was definitely there early on.

That may be the case, but it was never marketed as a PvP game in the way that it was implied. They also haven't "sold out" for PvE when that's been the main focus since the beginning, as a TES game. They've turned focus from PvP, yes, considering how they've lowered population and not added many new modes or what have you, but ESO wasn't to be marketed as more PvP than PvE. Making it sound like ESO was primarily a PvP game that "sold out" to focus on PvE isn't the way to phrase it.

Agenericname · March 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

show previous quotes

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

If you have read any of my MANY MANY comments on this subject, I have always said that they should leave character pages exactly how they are and add a separate account wide achievement tab. This keeps it nice for both types of alt players. If you want it fresh, great, if you want to see total progress, also great. I have also said that they should leave titles to characters. That means no level 3 godslayers, and it keeps end game community engaged as people hunt down trifectas on multiple toons.

Clearly, they didnt go that way, and certainly I wish they would have, but that ship has sailed. That said, I significantly prefer this to the old system. If this was the only option for AWA, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

Melivar wrote: »

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Right there with ya.

I’m sure I have read your posts and I apologize if I made it seem like I was coming down on you in particular. I don’t want people to feel bad for enjoying the update, just as I don’t think anyone should be made to feel bad about negative feelings either. Your feelings on the matter are just as valid as mine. I’m just bitter and angry that ZoS has seemingly pitted players against each other (or rather that we’re doing it for them) when we could have had the best of both. It just sucks. So again, please accept my apologies if my statement made you feel as though I was lashing out at you individually.

Totally fair. I have wanted AWA since forever, but to your point I give the implementation about a C-.

Personally I feel like a C- is a little high. Whether or not you wanted AWA, this missed its mark in a few critical areas.

Communication from ZOS has been awful. When they added weapons to normal maelstrom they at least gave an explanation and even said at one point that they knew it would be controversial but felt it was the right way to handle it. There was very little said about this aside from the QnA. That one may have been the more important one.

Achievements like Grand Master Crafter shouldnt complete on any character, much less all, if none of them have actually earned it. My main gained roughly 6k achievement points when the patch dropped. Of those, there are a number that no one character had previously. Some were incorporated from other characters, but quite a few were not.

Im not sure that the way that this was implemented is healthy for the long term replayability in some parts of the game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2022

Arunei wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

ESO was never marketed as a PvP game, though. It was a PvE game with a considerable focus on PvP, but let's not try to paint the game as being advertised as something it never was to fit a narrative. It's not really needed when there are a lot of other things to focus on, like the repeated "we're working on communication" without too much improvement in that field (Kevin has been awesome but he's only one person) or how many times they say they're working on performance with no real gains on the player end over the last few years. And now we have them saying that they have to remove existing data (character achievements) to make room for new data essentially.

Maybe not exclusively, but they leaned into the large scale AvAvA PVP battles very aggressively in their early marketing efforts. They have certainly pivoted pretty hard away from that concept, but it was definitely there early on.

That may be the case, but it was never marketed as a PvP game in the way that it was implied. They also haven't "sold out" for PvE when that's been the main focus since the beginning, as a TES game. They've turned focus from PvP, yes, considering how they've lowered population and not added many new modes or what have you, but ESO wasn't to be marketed as more PvP than PvE. Making it sound like ESO was primarily a PvP game that "sold out" to focus on PvE isn't the way to phrase it.

I was merely commenting on the marketing at launch, and frankly, this is not all that relevant to the thread. I remember thinking that I might not play (been here since Beta) because it seemed like a PVP ES based on the advertising, and at the time, it was not something I was interested in.

Agenericname wrote: »

show previous quotes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I love the account wide achievements so much. Already joined a new dungeon group to start hunting achievements. I play so many alts that achievements lost all meaning to me years ago.

Now that they are account wide, I feel like I can actually make progress on my achievement point total. Even something like being able to work towards Master Angler while I am waiting in BG queues. potentially on multiple toons, is amazing. Oh and now I want to play BGs for achievements. Never cared because my quester is not my main PVPer. I also play my main quester as a lawful good character, and did DB and TG quests on a different toon. Never bothered to do all the nuanced achievements, because who cared, the point total on my evil NB was laughable. Now, I am going to go back and do them all. I could go on and on with examples.

Sure, I wish titles were tied to the character, and there are certain annoyances with they way this was implemented (more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel), but I view it as mostly a very positive change. My playtime is going to increase significantly because of this. I have had one foot out the door for a few years now.

We could have had both. An account overview that tallies everything together and then saved character data. Doing it that way would have even allowed them to add new account specific achievements. But no.

There’s nothing wrong with your enjoyment of the feature. The issue is that it was entirely unnecessary for it to come at the cost of character achievements. The performance reason is a tacked on, Hail Mary, to try to get more players to accept this mess. Account and character achievements are not mutually exclusive and should not have been implemented as though they were.

If you have read any of my MANY MANY comments on this subject, I have always said that they should leave character pages exactly how they are and add a separate account wide achievement tab. This keeps it nice for both types of alt players. If you want it fresh, great, if you want to see total progress, also great. I have also said that they should leave titles to characters. That means no level 3 godslayers, and it keeps end game community engaged as people hunt down trifectas on multiple toons.

Clearly, they didnt go that way, and certainly I wish they would have, but that ship has sailed. That said, I significantly prefer this to the old system. If this was the only option for AWA, I would take that deal every day and twice on Sundays.

Melivar wrote: »

The AWA change has me out doing things that I wouldn't normally be doing over the past few weeks. So for me personally the allure has increased. I've even started grinding out leveling Bastian for his achievement to get the companion meta achievements completed on a character who's play style doesn't make him hate my character every 40 seconds as I move through the world.

I may even complete the master angler at some point as now I can fish on any character to progress the advancement while they wait in dungeon or BG Ques or simple wait for trial groups to fill.

I wish people didn't have to deal with their own frustrations with the new system and it could have worked out making everyone happy. The one thing I personally wish was different was the achieved by x at the bottom but I can live with it.

While I have for the most part enjoyed reading both the PTS thread (pretty sure I haven't missed many posts) and others to get an understanding of why folks feel the way they do both good, bad and somewhere in the middle so I can perhaps help anyone in my small circle of players find a way past any issues moving forward should they ask.

ZOS did what they felt they needed to for the longer term benefit of the game and only time will tell if they hit or missed the mark and if the gains are outweighed to the losses. Even a 90+ page thread with thousands of posts boils down to 400-600 plays more or less even if it was 2000 is still marginal to the player base that pays attention to the forums or social media stuff (60-70K people where on the twitch live stream) let alone all the folks who just trudge along buying and eating through whatever content they churn out.

Cheers and good luck in Tamriel everyone

Right there with ya.

I’m sure I have read your posts and I apologize if I made it seem like I was coming down on you in particular. I don’t want people to feel bad for enjoying the update, just as I don’t think anyone should be made to feel bad about negative feelings either. Your feelings on the matter are just as valid as mine. I’m just bitter and angry that ZoS has seemingly pitted players against each other (or rather that we’re doing it for them) when we could have had the best of both. It just sucks. So again, please accept my apologies if my statement made you feel as though I was lashing out at you individually.

Totally fair. I have wanted AWA since forever, but to your point I give the implementation about a C-.

Personally I feel like a C- is a little high. Whether or not you wanted AWA, this missed its mark in a few critical areas.

Communication from ZOS has been awful. When they added weapons to normal maelstrom they at least gave an explanation and even said at one point that they knew it would be controversial but felt it was the right way to handle it. There was very little said about this aside from the QnA. That one may have been the more important one.

Achievements like Grand Master Crafter shouldnt complete on any character, much less all, if none of them have actually earned it. My main gained roughly 6k achievement points when the patch dropped. Of those, there are a number that no one character had previously. Some were incorporated from other characters, but quite a few were not.

Im not sure that the way that this was implemented is healthy for the long term replayability in some parts of the game.

Well, again, I personally think its an improvement over the old system. I very much like AWA, at least the broad strokes. That's why I said C-, its passing, but barely. LOL. If my options where keep it as is, or revert to last week knowing we would never get AVA, I would take the new system without a second thought.

Caroloces wrote: »

As the septuagenarian who initiated this thread, I have some thoughts (for what they're worth) on the plight we're in and a possible way forward.
At the heart of this issue are 2 different ways of viewing achievements. Some players view them as goals; some view them as guideposts. I think it helpful if we take a step back and try to view the gaming pleasure that is derived from each style of play, and show empathy for those who play in a different manner than we do. For the goal-oriented, achievements are there as goals to be reached, and the dopamine rush for doing so will be more easily gained if all characters in an account strive together to reach those goals. Account Wide Achievements are therefore a blessing and a boon to the game. For the Guidepost-oriented player, achievements are there to help develop the individual characters in one's account develop and grow in similar or different ways. Achievements are "consulted" to help the player decide which activities should be pursued to help characters emerge and grow into distinct individuals. The dopamine rush occurs in the logical and elegant way one can play the game and promote each character's development, and the feeling that the game is filled with new possibilities.

In the implementation of AWA, Zos made the mistake of reformulating most of the achievements so they would cater to and please the goal-oriented style of player without any regard for the guidepost-oriented player. This is unfortunate because a great many achievements truly are individual guideposts (progress in the main story chapters, as an example). There are also many achievements that are well-suited for goal-oriented players (master angler?). Even though I'm a guidepost type of player, I could see myself enjoying the pursuit of an achievement goal like master angler with all my toons!

The ideal would be to create a system in which you have both types of achievements, but unfortunately, the monkey wrench in such an ideal is the need to streamline performance so as more content is added, the game doesn't get bogged down by a bloated database.

So at the risk of straining my welcome in this post, here are my thoughts on how Zos could attempt to remediate this conundrum:
First and foremost, detach the zone guide from achievements, and make it a more robust tool for players to use in character progression. There should be nothing in the zone guide that smacks of completion if the individual character has not achieved that element, whatever it is.

There's a heck of a lot of achievements in the game. Is it possible to whittle these down, consolidate some, to help improve performance? To me, one of the ludicrous things that got my goat was to see the Mages Guild Skill Master achievement (a guidepost type) completed back in 2016 on one of my early characters. This does nothing for me in 2022, especially when I'm working to progress newer characters in that skill line!

A shot in the dark, but hey! What the heck: If performance is such a concern, is it within the realm of possibility to make database elements of the game, like achievements, be client-based, rather than server-based?

Finally, Zos should establish a form of the PTS that is constant and ongoing to test and evaluate the game as a whole. Perhaps a select and rotating roster of players would be allowed admittance and a channel created for direct communication between Zos devs and these players to monitor the health of the game. I believe the problem of AWA implentation in this patch had a lot to do with the way it was rushed through to meet the patch deadline. A more considerate and methodical way to make changes like this would be to allow more stakeholders (players!) to be an important part of the process, and not allow release unless the implementation was fine-tuned and ready.

Anyway, I've said my piece on this issue. I believe it's time for a break from Tamriel. My sub renews in May so I'll check back then to see if there's any type of future for me in ESO. Thanks all!

Point 1 is spot on. I like AWA, but I cant disagree with that assessment. I have never played a game where achievements were tied to a character. Most games require multiple playthroughs to get all achievements, so to me, tying achievements to a character is silly. I am clearly a goal-oriented player in your example. I also see no reason why they couldn't rework the zone guides going forward, but I am not a programmer.

Mushroomancer · March 2022

Oh the allure is long gone, but for me AWA had nothing to do with it. I am actually in favor of it as a concept. This is mostly because I can actually play some of my alts that I had been putting off because of the "every important achievement on my main" syndrome I happened to have.
I don't find ESO terribly immersive on account of all the hundreds of player-made fellow chosen ones that litter every inch of the world, so I don't particularly care about having each character have their own story or whatever, besides their appearance. At its core, ESO is still an MMO, and I think there's only so much I can ever get immersed in a game belonging to the genre.

To me the game started to lose its appeal because of how stale it's been over the last years, with very little, repetitive, unoriginal, and puddle-deep content coming out each year. And this year's chapter reveal has been sort of just twisting the knife in the wound, it really felt like they were joking; expectations couldn't have been lower, and somehow I was still disappointed.

That being said, I do understand and can empathize with how a lot of players have found themselves sapped of their will to play or replay the game because of how this change was handled, but I just cannot relate with the reasons why they are against AWA. Regardless, I think we can all agree that this wasn't the most elegant way to implement this change, to put it very, very kindly. I trust that ZOS will at least have the decency of patching the more annoying quirks of this implementation, but I find the way they pulled their usual "it's for performance reasons" ace in the sleeve the moment they started feeling the backlash extremely distasteful and like a reflexive damage control response. I honestly doubt the performance impact of achievement data was that massive, and even then, performance seems to be worse after the patch, funny that.

Bottom line, as it seems to be the case with most of the changes that aren't well received by the community, communication has been abysmal, and this just reeks of a rushed update, the thing is there is genuinely no reason I can think of to rush such a "feature", unless those crumbs of storage space that character-wide achievements occupied were required to add the latest asset-flip dungeons.

newtinmpls · March 2022

To answer OP's initial question: has ESO lost it's allure?

My reply: Not completely, ZoS just chose to throw away a BIIIIG chunk of it

Sylvermynx · March 2022

Caroloces wrote: »

As the septuagenarian who initiated this thread, I have some thoughts (for what they're worth) on the plight we're in and a possible way forward.
At the heart of this issue are 2 different ways of viewing achievements. Some players view them as goals; some view them as guideposts. I think it helpful if we take a step back and try to view the gaming pleasure that is derived from each style of play, and show empathy for those who play in a different manner than we do. For the goal-oriented, achievements are there as goals to be reached, and the dopamine rush for doing so will be more easily gained if all characters in an account strive together to reach those goals. Account Wide Achievements are therefore a blessing and a boon to the game. For the Guidepost-oriented player, achievements are there to help develop the individual characters in one's account develop and grow in similar or different ways. Achievements are "consulted" to help the player decide which activities should be pursued to help characters emerge and grow into distinct individuals. The dopamine rush occurs in the logical and elegant way one can play the game and promote each character's development, and the feeling that the game is filled with new possibilities.

Actually there's 3 ways - those two you posted, and mine (also viewed so by some good RL friends of mine who play though not as much as I do): I don't give a rat's patoot about achievements at all, whether character-isolated or account-bound.

TPishek · March 2022

I honestly really like having some things being only possible to do once. It makes the world feel lived in if I go somewhere on a new character and see that some dashing hero had helped rebuild Orsinium or killed some annoying bosmer kid.

ArchangelIsraphel · March 2022

TPishek wrote: »

I honestly really like having some things being only possible to do once. It makes the world feel lived in if I go somewhere on a new character and see that some dashing hero had helped rebuild Orsinium or killed some annoying bosmer kid.

I get that perspective and I'm glad you see it positively.

For me, though, it feels like college- walking into my room to see that my roommate has left their stuff all over my floor. Except in eso, I have no way to chuck it all back to their side.

Plus, when you've been playing a main for years, it's nice to see those things reset to remember what it was like before you did the quests and to have the complete experience when you replay.

NeKryXe · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Then I realized that is just how they play the game. The achievements are the goal. It is the game. It is everything. The object is to beat the game, and you beat the game by getting all the achievements.

Again, this is the group that is happy. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Even for them, this is bad. Now their goals got easy, if it was a problem means that now their game might be almost beaten and they didn't win anything. Meanwhile, those who were using achievements to track the progress, lost everything. It's a lose-lose situation. I believe that this was the worse thing that happened to this game, unless they have a backup to restore this error.

Faulgor · March 2022

I don't care either way, I only do achievements for the rewards, but I'm really surprised how many people are upset about this after years of people asking for account wide achievements. You can argue about the implementation, but to say that ZOS doesn't listen to the community when them listening to feedback is the only reason this change was even implemented seems wrong.