Has ESO finally lost its allure?

jtm1018 · March 2022

Is it bad to say that I just love living in tamriel.
Lots of adventures to do.
Lots of monster to kill.
Lots of stuff to distract you, events and those other pita's.
Basically just adventuring in tamriel.
Lost its allure, I dont know, I just love it here.

ectoplasmicninja · March 2022

The delve/WB/skyshard map icons being broken atm are a bit of a pain. Every time I change zone it's 50/50 on whether all the delves look incomplete, skyshards look uncollected, and WBs look undefeated, or not. Across 18 characters it's hard to remember who's done what, but...I guess that's the point, isn't it? AWA mean a shift in thinking and approach, from the "this character hasn't done this yet, so I should go do that" that used to prod our actions to "I've done everything on someone so now I can just do whatever I want on anyone". Admittedly I haven't quite crossed that psychological bridge yet. It's just difficult without the straightforward impetus of achievements to act as a progress chart for a character that I can then use to plot my future actions on them. I mean, no, I don't need to do every dungeon on every character anymore, but I guess I never did? It was just a breadcrumb trail that was easy to follow, and now I need to throw my own breadcrumbs.

Hurbster · March 2022

Think I'm gonna have a bash at levelling a conjurer. Maybe go for White Mage.

renne · March 2022

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

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renne wrote: »

Gosh, what could POSSIBLY have been released recently across all platforms that would see a lot of people who also play ESO playing something else? What could it possibly be we just don't know.

You aren't talking about that "game" where people repeatedly smash their face against ridiculously overtuned mechanics that are "hard" just for the sake of being "hard" in a barren empty "open world" in a pointless battle of attrition for "maiden points" and "fun" are you?

Somehow ESO getting a card game seems like a plus in light of that glorified digital self flagellation. I mean there is feeling you need to prove something and just outright masochistic compulsions. I guess some people like that stuff. /shrug

Glad I didn't ride the $60 pre-order hype train on that one.

Just because you personally don't like a game or the mechanics of a game doesn't make any less a game, the difficulty artificial, the game not an open world, whatever you seem to think """""maiden points""""" are or make it any less fun for the people who do like it, so I don't understand why any of the scare quotes.

But yeah, I am talking about Elden Ring. And just because you personally don't like it doesn't make it any less of a truth that there are a lot of people playing Elden Ring who'd be playing something else if it hadn't come out. Sorry, I guess?

WhyMustItBe · March 2022

renne wrote: »

Just because you personally don't like a game ... doesn't make it any less of a truth that there are a lot of people playing...

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

I guess some people like that stuff. /shrug

I literally said the same thing. To each their own, basically. But I don't think there is near as much of an overlap between the ESO crowd and that game as you might think, certainly not enough to meaningfully impact the population.

In terms of difficulty, ESO is about as easy mode as it gets. WoW actually has more difficult overland content. People have been asking for veteran mode toggle for instanced overland for years. Contrast that with a game that is so difficult it borders on digital masochism and I think the number of people who enjoy playing a game with the difficulty of ESO who would honestly be pulled away to play a game like that is really very small.

But me not thinking a game like that is a good design or personally enjoying it isn't meant to insult the people who do. I am just of a different school of thought. I personally feel games should be fun and entertaining, not tedious and infuriating. I guess maybe some people enjoy the challenge of transcending the frustration? I honestly just don't get the appeal of that genre.

_Zathras_ · March 2022

Hurbster wrote: »

Think I'm gonna have a bash at levelling a conjurer. Maybe go for White Mage.

White Mage rocks. Summoner is a lot of fun as well.

Destai · March 2022

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

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Destai wrote: »

I think the predictability of the yearly release cycle contributes to a feeling of malaise. I also think the less meaty content we're getting doesn't bode well. I understand we need some performance fixes and I'm happy they're finally doing it, I just worry about well-done it'll be, just seeing how they did with AWA.

Would rather 1 major expac a year... Combine all 4 releases into one summer release with 6 new dungeons, the chaper and story arc. Spend the rest of the year on balance and fixes.

Nobody wants the game changes every 4 months... a year would be fine with balances along the way.

Exactly. Monetization contributes to the fading allure. It feels exhausting. There's more for me to buy in the store than there is for me to earn in-game. I think the product management needs vast improvement.

And so do the testing cycles. I'm on console and I'm horrified reading what's happening with AWA for PC people. I'm not against AWA per se but it doesn't seem like it's implemented in a well-designed way. Like so many other changes, seems like PTS feedback was ignored and they charged forward despite more time being needed.

As for creating new toons, after 12, I'm done. Too many skyshard runs, horse upgrades, grinding, only to have a toon that's the same meal as the others with different spices. I accept that burnout is partially on me, but I still feel like there's room for the game to grow and welcome playstyles that extend the game's life.

Casul · March 2022

The AwA changes would probably bring me back, but the performance is keeping me away. Game isn't fun if it doesn’t run.

Scaletho · March 2022

I still don't get this AWA. As far as I know, none of my new characters already finished any quests it never made. The quests are there, and I need to finished them with each of character I eventually create. The achievements, however, are "completed" somehow.

So, for practical purpose, all story lines still need to be made; the 'badges' we earn in the process are now already gained by our older characters.

Honestly, I don't see why this AWA is so criticized. For any player, the process of passing through all story lines in all regions is still in place for any character.

Kalik_Gold · March 2022

Scaletho wrote: »

I still don't get this AWA. As far as I know, none of my new characters already finished any quests it never made. The quests are there, and I need to finished them with each of character I eventually create. The achievements, however, are "completed" somehow.

So, for practical purpose, all story lines still need to be made; the 'badges' we earn in the process are now already gained by our older characters.

Honestly, I don't see why this AWA is so criticized. For any player, the process of passing through all story lines in all regions is still in place for any character.

OK new character made (level 3), walk past a Tythis banker and he will be saying " the Muth Gnaar monks"; meanwhile your new character has not even saved these monks yet. So basically the immersion is killed for any quest you are trying to repeat on an alt.

I'm on console but from my understanding that is what is happening, because all achievements have been unlocked the NPCs in the game think your new level character has done it. This goes on and on for every quest, including quest chains you haven't even started.

If I'm incorrect a PC person can clear it up.

proprio.meb16_ESO · March 2022

You are correct, and apart from this there are a few things now you can do only once in your account (!!) and a few actual glitches im not sure that have been fixed already (like the two queens one) and ofc this, which is just ridiculous: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600829/any-new-about-this-bug#latest

To have a better idea of the whole issue best thing to do is get a cup of tea (or whatever suits you, even popcorn could be appropriate) and go reading through 94 pages of the pts feedback thread, i can assure its one of the most converging threads ive ever read here, and its general outcome has been "ok with awa, but definitely not this way".

TwinLamps · March 2022

Now imagine how people who have 30+ master fishers, dozen od emperors and ton of other achievements feel like. All that effort for what?

Casul · March 2022

TwinLamps wrote: »

Now imagine how people who have 30+ master fishers, dozen od emperors and ton of other achievements feel like. All that effort for what?

It's just the other side of the coin. For every person like you mention, there another who has never gotten to make an alt because of fear of missing an achievement on your main.

heaven13 · March 2022

BuildMan wrote: »

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TwinLamps wrote: »

Now imagine how people who have 30+ master fishers, dozen od emperors and ton of other achievements feel like. All that effort for what?

It's just the other side of the coin. For every person like you mention, there another who has never gotten to make an alt because of fear of missing an achievement on your main.

Every time I see this response I just want to yell “We could have had both”!!!

They are not mutually exclusive. It didn’t have to be this way. And, in fact, that’s what most people in the PTS thread advocated for: character achievements with an overview of player achievements, where aggregate achievements were tallied on both sides (one character could earn Master Angler for themselves but the player side would tally across the entire account) and all tangible rewards would have been given at the player level. No one had to lose anything, if it had been done well. It wasn’t.

Kesstryl · March 2022

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sarahthes wrote: »

Most of the people I play closely with have been a bit burnt out on ESO for other reasons for a while and are taking a bit of a break playing other games while the new meta shakes out. I know a lot of cores are starting back up again in 1-2 weeks, including 3 of my own. In the meantime, most of us have reduced our playtime because sometimes you just need a break and none of us are dungeon achievement pushers.

In other words, I think there's a combination of factors involved in the steam charts drop. For PvE endgame, the drastic meta shift (that NOBODY on the forums seems to be talking about!) has far more to do with it.

Just wanted to point out what someone else said because it's very insightful and relevant to your post:

matterandstuff wrote: »

Just pointing out that the Steam average player count for the last thirty days has now crashed to the lowest level since December 2019. The significance of that (beyond it being a long time ago and pre-pandemic) is that it's the month after the Undaunted event had to be cancelled within hours because it broke the servers, after possibly the worst six months performance-wise in the history of the game, with the dungeon finder barely usable for long periods of time and having to be drastically reworked. December 2019 is what the player numbers looked like after months of such severe performance woes that anything now still pales by comparison; the game lost more than a third of its player base in the second half of that year.

That after ESO's pandemic boom and a couple of pretty successful years since, they're now back down at those numbers does not sound like a game in a healthy state.

heaven13 wrote: »

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BuildMan wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

Now imagine how people who have 30+ master fishers, dozen od emperors and ton of other achievements feel like. All that effort for what?

It's just the other side of the coin. For every person like you mention, there another who has never gotten to make an alt because of fear of missing an achievement on your main.

Every time I see this response I just want to yell “We could have had both”!!!

They are not mutually exclusive. It didn’t have to be this way. And, in fact, that’s what most people in the PTS thread advocated for: character achievements with an overview of player achievements, where aggregate achievements were tallied on both sides (one character could earn Master Angler for themselves but the player side would tally across the entire account) and all tangible rewards would have been given at the player level. No one had to lose anything, if it had been done well. It wasn’t.

^^ This would have been ideal. This is what we originally wanted. This is what all that 94 pages of feedback on PTS was about. We wanted both. After they told us AwA was really about saving database space, we begged and begged that the bugs we found would be fixed so that those of us who were sad about losing the individual data of our alts could at least still enjoy the game the way it was. Apparently we not only had to lose the souls of our characters, but we also have to suck up they way AwA interferes with the game world, and that just rubs salt, alcohol, and acid into the wound.

The_Boggart · March 2022

I gave an achievement award for 10k AP , I got this for opening daily rewards not really an achievement is it. AwA has really dumbed down the game.

Mrtoobyy · March 2022

I would love to have separate achievements, character and account based. I would also love to have more immersive overland.
Whatever you enemy you fight feels the same wether it's daedra or an ogre. Just different skins on them. It really doesn't matter what mechanics they have.

This is is probably the biggest reason for me why the allure is fading. Been play since beta and leveling up alts or playing through new content just feels like playing whatever PVE content.
The most content rich part of the game is overland, imagine for a veteran player to long for new challenging questing experience with your OG toon.

Hymzir · March 2022

It has for me at least.

To be fair. it's been on the decline for quite some while, but the AWA debacle kinda killed any lingering interest in it.

And it's not even the changes as such, as much as the way it has been handled. There have been basically no acknowledgement of any issues, no communication on what is being done, nor admission that it could've been handled better from ZOS.

Some of the worries I've had with AWA, have been dispersed thanks to meticulous testing by other players. Many quest, that were feared to have been borked by the changes, do work mostly as they should.There are still issues though, and some content is once per account.

The real kicker is that none of this was done by ZOS. No comments, no explanations, no attempt to dispel worries. Just silence. Beyond the usual marked spiel of: "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!" Which gets tiresome.

As such, I've been in a waiting mode here and been spending my time on other games, while waiting to see how ZOS is gonna respond to these concerns. Or more like if ZOS is going to respond. By now it's kinda clear they wont.

I don't know what to do really. Part of me wants to keep on doing my thing in ESO, but I just can't seem to get around to login on any more. And the longer I wait, the less interested I become on returning. This is not just because of the AWA nonsense. It's a thing that's been growing for a while now. The AWA hassle just broke the camel's back, so to say.

I mean, PVP is total train wreck, housing is hampered by ridiculously tiny item budget, and the game itself is mired in over monetization, and the world moves farther and farther from the more or less grounded medieval fantasy it is supposed to be, with all them laser ponies prancing about. And am not keen on having to re-work all my builds again, thanks to the radical changes to the core mechanics. And who knows what the next update will change. Probably even more radical mechanical changes. So tired of that. And the introduction of a CCG gring into the mix really doesn't help much either.

I recently stumbled across a slew of new Skyrim mods that have totally re-vitalized my interest in it, and I got a lot of quest and DLC mods to slog through. More than I realistically have time to play, to be honest. Add to that Elden Ring, and the fact that I really should get around to playing through RDR2 since I got it in last steam winter sale. And there are rumours of a Cyberpunk DLC on the horizon, and the latest patch has made it almost playable, so... Do I really want to bother with ESO at this point? I got more than enough stuff to do before Starfield launches, so do I really want to deal with the lag and the bugs and the ever changing game design, and the in your face constant reminders, that I should buy some crowns!

Add to this the problems introduced by AWA, and I just don't see why I should bother. I'm no longer on an extended sick leave, so it's not like I can game all day any more either, and there just are so many other, less aggravating I might add, ways to spend my time.

I think I'll log finally on tomorrow. Finally bite the bullet so to say, and wipe my character data. Maybe finish up some lingering things here and there, and say my abayo:s to guildies and then tuck this thing into cold storage. Come back in a year or so to see what's what, and whether the world has moved past ESO for good. I'll guess I'll know tomorrow, after I force myself to log on.

barney2525 · March 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

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barney2525 wrote: »

Server stability vs Player enjoyment.

And how did that work out for them?

I dunno. I have no idea if they actually value Player Enjoyment.

Bethgael · March 2022

vindex9ona wrote: »

This is an online game. At some point the servers will be shut down forever and all characters and their achievements will be lost.
Our comments have nothing to do with cruelty or lack of empathy, but with an healthy relationship with life and the difference between a game and reality.

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.
[snip]

[snip]

[Minor edit for nonconstructive comment.]

Why do you play a "role playing game" if you do not like to role play your characters, then? [wait, this is rhetorical: read on].

I could diss you for this, but I won't--because if you prefer the "MMO" part of "MMORPG" then that's your business and great, we have a choice. Thing is: it's all very well of you to crow, because your playstyle lost nothing. Ours? Lost it all.

Some of us have what could be called "writerbrain" or "RP brain" or--I don't know, the fun part is the individualisation of our multiple characters. When the servers get turned off one day, many of us will---yes, will--mourn our characters because they are a literal part of our imagination that we've "lived with" for almost a decade, in many cases. You know, in the same way people will cry when Old Yeller dies, because we relate to losing a dog, or get sad at the end of a book or movie or game when a Sad Thing happens. Some of us will, indeed, look back at our time and our individual characters with fondness and nostalgia, because that was the whole point of playing the game.

See, that's the FUN of that for us.

The fact you don't understand this doesn't make it any less true. Your comments are a lack of empathy because enjoying role play and character differences does not mean that people don't have a "healthy relationship with reality". It simply means that our way of having fun is different from yours, and you don't seem to be able to understand that while you lost nothing, those of us who consume fun differently from you lost the ability to have our preferred way of fun: role playing and character individuality in this role playing game.

Instead, you're demanding that we switch to seeing things your way. We do understand the difference. Really. Do you?

etchedpixels · March 2022

BuildMan wrote: »

The AwA changes would probably bring me back, but the performance is keeping me away. Game isn't fun if it doesn’t run.

For me I think it's three things

1. The sheer number of bugs and glitches the game now has, where you have to logout and in during quests to get characters to appear, where stuff just bugs out, where dungeon groups spawn with half of the group missing and so on.
2. The performance - lag in Cyrodiil, random disconnect and flakyness in general - especially trials
3. Game age - ESO is looking and feeling ever more dated. I realise it's a prisoner of its own history and time but up against new games it's on the losing side.

AWA is merely annoying

Lysette · March 2022

ectoplasmicninja wrote: »

The delve/WB/skyshard map icons being broken atm are a bit of a pain. Every time I change zone it's 50/50 on whether all the delves look incomplete, skyshards look uncollected, and WBs look undefeated, or not. Across 18 characters it's hard to remember who's done what, but...I guess that's the point, isn't it? AWA mean a shift in thinking and approach, from the "this character hasn't done this yet, so I should go do that" that used to prod our actions to "I've done everything on someone so now I can just do whatever I want on anyone". Admittedly I haven't quite crossed that psychological bridge yet. It's just difficult without the straightforward impetus of achievements to act as a progress chart for a character that I can then use to plot my future actions on them. I mean, no, I don't need to do every dungeon on every character anymore, but I guess I never did? It was just a breadcrumb trail that was easy to follow, and now I need to throw my own breadcrumbs.

Hm. when I look at delves on the map and the status of skyshards there, my map still shows for every character differently if it is - undiscovered, discovered or acquired, whenever I hover with the mouse over the delve icon. I'm on PC though and don't use add-ons. Skyshards show as well individually for each character in the compass, if I have not yet collected them. The zone guide tracks as well progress of skyshards collection individually per each of my characters. So I can still easily find out, which character has done what in regards to skyshards and delve completion separately.

But what was a bit confusing lately, I got a skyshard hunter message (and that it is available now for purchase on other characters of mine) while this specific character hasn't actually acquired all the skyhards in that zone - it was one less. Is the skyhard hunter achievement now adding up all the different findings of all of my characters into one achievement?

kringled_1 · March 2022

Lysette wrote: »

But what was a bit confusing lately, I got a skyshard hunter message (and that it is available now for purchase on other characters of mine) while this specific character hasn't actually acquired all the skyhards in that zone - it was one less. Is the skyhard hunter achievement now adding up all the different findings of all of my characters into one achievement?

Yes, that is what it will do now.

Anyron · March 2022

Its crazy what they want for dlcs.. If you compare 40€ eso expansion( 10hours) with another new game ( elden ring for example that cost 60 with around 150 good hours) eso just isnt worth it. And every expansion gets smaller..
Now they introduce new card game, but new cards will be behind another expansion, it worked same with antiquity ( lets leave behind items that gets nerfed to ground 3 months after patch) and companions

Lysette · March 2022

Anyron wrote: »

Its crazy what they want for dlcs.. If you compare 40€ eso expansion( 10hours) with another new game ( elden ring for example that cost 60 with around 150 good hours) eso just isnt worth it. And every expansion gets smaller..
Now they introduce new card game, but new cards will be behind another expansion, it worked same with antiquity ( lets leave behind items that gets nerfed to ground 3 months after patch) and companions

they said you will play both from the same shuffled stack - so you do not know, if your "better" cards will not be used by your opponent instead. So acquiring better cards is not really a worthwhile goal with this concept, more kind of some fun activity you can do if you have nothing better to do.

Antiquities are pretty similar to that - a fun activity if you enjoy doing it - but you could spend your time as well on something else and achieve more in much less time.

Northwold · March 2022

Anyron wrote: »

Its crazy what they want for dlcs.. If you compare 40€ eso expansion( 10hours) with another new game ( elden ring for example that cost 60 with around 150 good hours) eso just isnt worth it. And every expansion gets smaller..
Now they introduce new card game, but new cards will be behind another expansion, it worked same with antiquity ( lets leave behind items that gets nerfed to ground 3 months after patch) and companions

Some of the houses alone work out more expensive than an AAA game. Yes the pricing is bonkers.

Kesstryl · March 2022

Kalik_Gold wrote: »

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Scaletho wrote: »

I still don't get this AWA. As far as I know, none of my new characters already finished any quests it never made. The quests are there, and I need to finished them with each of character I eventually create. The achievements, however, are "completed" somehow.

So, for practical purpose, all story lines still need to be made; the 'badges' we earn in the process are now already gained by our older characters.

Honestly, I don't see why this AWA is so criticized. For any player, the process of passing through all story lines in all regions is still in place for any character.

OK new character made (level 3), walk past a Tythis banker and he will be saying " the Muth Gnaar monks"; meanwhile your new character has not even saved these monks yet. So basically the immersion is killed for any quest you are trying to repeat on an alt.

I'm on console but from my understanding that is what is happening, because all achievements have been unlocked the NPCs in the game think your new level character has done it. This goes on and on for every quest, including quest chains you haven't even started.

If I'm incorrect a PC person can clear it up.

Some have been testing the NPCs. For the most part they are behaving, but there are a couple that are not. Story quest NPC chatter seems to be firing off completed quests. There's one documented misfire happening in Coldharbor with an NPC that talked to an alt about completing Vaults of Madness when that alt did not. The whole game hasn't been tested yet, it's ongoing, and if anyone has found and can verify with screenshots, please post them here: [url="http://"]https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600993/results-of-account-wide-achievements-testing-on-live-npc-interactions#latest[/url]

LashanW · March 2022

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

But me not thinking a game like that is a good design or personally enjoying it isn't meant to insult the people who do. I am just of a different school of thought. I personally feel games should be fun and entertaining, not tedious and infuriating. I guess maybe some people enjoy the challenge of transcending the frustration? I honestly just don't get the appeal of that genre.

It's just a matter of perspective. People have a preferred level of difficulty when playing a game. People who enjoy souls-like games don't find them tedious and infuriating. They find it awesome and fun. The challenge in those game just clicks with them.

I started playing Elden Ring this week (just a few hours in), and man, it is so refreshing. I really missed how it feels to venture out into a dangerous land with unknown threats (much easier to immerse myself in). And it looks like the game is absolutely huge with tons of replayability and character customization. Pretty sure I'll spend a thousand or more hours there (like I did for dark souls 2 and 3). Seems well worth the money. (I bought it for 50$ from steam). I was never even worried about spending money on Elden Ring as it's from a developer that has never let me down.

In ESO I find group content to be pretty exciting. But the rest of the game is just... boring and often disappointing, I don't find it fun and entertaining at all.

But the main reason I find ESO less and less appealing is how ZoS is managing their game and treating their playerbase. Performance keeps getting worse and worse, loading screens become infuriating sometimes. Multi-threaded rendering is the ONLY performance improvement I've seen in this game for years, and I was hyped as I thought they'd continue that trend. But now they seem to be going on a path where removing certain aspects of the game is considered as acceptable, instead of investing in proper solutions that doesn't compromise player fun.

I also don't have a clue anymore who their primary target audience is. It can't be people like me, otherwise we'd get a veteran overland/quests. It can't be PvPers, just going to Cyrodiil in primetime is enough to see that. I always thought it was the casual questing and/or role-playing folks. Atleast that's what they always say when we ask for proper options to enjoy questing. But now we have a forced buggy poorly thought out implementation of AwA which affects casual players with their immersion.

Seems to me like no type of player is being valued or respected (except ofc the whales that feed on the crown store). It worries me, makes me really consider whether I should continue to sub or not. For now I have decided not to.

TPishek · March 2022

heaven13 wrote: »

Every time I see this response I just want to yell “We could have had both”!!!

We could not, it was never an option zos wanted to do because it was only done for the purposes of making the database more efficient. If everything worked smoothly we likely wouldn't have had them at all.