Has ESO finally lost its allure?

SilverBride · March 2022

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance"

I've never had a performance problem in all the years I've played. But I sure feel the sting of having my characters' individuality removed to fix a problem I never had.

Jaraal · March 2022

Urvoth wrote: »

Yep, exactly this. Thanks zos for wasting thousands of hours put into individual characters to get achievements. I guess it was too hard for them to just upgrade their database instead of mandatorily destroying my character and the whole achievement hunting experience.

The more time you spend in the ESO world the more you realize that it’s all about the bottom line with them. So it’s really no surprise that they would rather delete the player experience than invest in infrastructure that would keep the game whole. 90+ pages of heartfelt stories were not enough to prevent the disaster. And sadly, I don’t think the resulting exodus of players will do anything to change the mindset, either.

Ragnarok0130 · March 2022

Vulkunne wrote: »

show previous quotes

vindex9ona wrote: »

Caroloces wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

Prior to this update, my lovely Orc, Mandanor, did not "forget" that he had achieved Mages Guild Skill Master. It was evident in his achievements. If I logged onto a different character, I would see that character's achievements, and not Mandanor's. I was a classroom teacher before I retired. If I gave "Johnny" a 100 on a spelling test, that score was not forgotten once I gave "Jane" an 85. It would be ludicrous to give "Johnny" a 100 on his test and have that show up as the score for all of my students! And that is exactly the scenario that is taking place in ESO with this update.

This is an online game. At some point the servers will be shut down forever and all characters and their achievements will be lost.
Our comments have nothing to do with cruelty or lack of empathy, but with an healthy relationship with life and the difference between a game and reality.

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.
For your own good, I hope you won't attach too many feelings to your characters, as it can never end well.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no "Johnny" and no "Jane" here as separate entities, I hope you realize that it's always you playing all those characters beyond a healthy level of immersion, and therefore all those "votes" regarding what you did and how well you did it can go to you as the player.

You don't understand fam. Please don't be so critical of others feelings. This is exactly why something like this should never have been done because now what was I'm sure a big part of ESO gaming pool is now open to ridicule, as is their way of life. So not only have characters almost completely lost identity you're a fool too for ever imagining them or having an imagination at all, or wanting to explore another fantasy world. Sad. It's just sooo sad.

Wow this could damage the game in more ways than anyone could have ever imagined. I sincerely hope whomever wanted this done, stuck to their guns, completely ignored other options and the players begging them not to do this, I hope you are satisfied.

I've been playing since Beta and lurked on the forums since then and we heard the same exact thing - "this could damage the game in more ways than anyone could have ever imagined" - when One Tamriel launched here on the forums. There were endless quitting threads, cancelling sub threads, people railing on and on and on about lost "feelings of character progression" because they could no longer solo ROFLStomp world bosses in starter zones and we all know many years later that One Tamriel was ultimately a solid move for the game, our own progression, and its longevity. AWA will be the same thing in the end and like One Tamriel is here to say - ZoS outright stated this just like they said for One Tamriel. Unlike One Tamriel AWA is also something the community has been repeatedly asked for since launch so I'm frankly quite happy that we finally have it. Next since we have AWA ZoS should implement Steam Achievements to capitalize on the forward momentum.

Amottica · March 2022

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

OtarTheMad · March 2022

I get the negativity towards Account Wide Achievements, heck I was on that boat. However, then I really thought about it and maybe it's just me but I barely even remember what achievements each character has anymore. After 18 character slots and most likely WAY over 30 characters made and deleted... I lost track. I was even surprised by some of the achievements some characters had. Also, if it does help with performance (I have only logged in a few times, busy life rn) then I am game. I haven't seen anything good or worse with this update so far with performance but maybe that's just me and my experience with U33.

This also helps when/if they ever add another class, also helps people who feel stuck with a class because "I am not doing all those achievements again." (Looking at you 150 daily quest achievement... f that.) I saw that a lot in chats, people who felt stuck with a class... they often wished a class change token existed. I know that if a new class comes out some time and I like it better than the one I am playing now... I am not stuck, which is great IMO.

I feel bad for those who tracked who had what and really didn't want good characters having DB or TG achievements etc. That sucks and I get that but for me... I just lost track of who had what. Hell, my first character didn't even have FG until way after One Tamriel came out because I wanted him to be a mage and mages didn't do FG crap... but I eventually gave in because I wanted the achievement points. Plus for raids I needed certain passives and abilities... kinda pee'd all over my path.

RevJJ · March 2022

It annoys me no small amount that ZOS keeps talking about how important the ESO community is, and how they want to improve communication and then defecate all over those statements. It’s just marketing babble to keep us hooked and think we really matter.

Because ultimately ZOS is doing what most companies do. Focus on new customers because for sales and marketing people that’s often all that counts. Get in new customers, get their money and once they’re in… well, who cares? I guess that their income from new players is higher than from long term players, so they just don’t give a single bit about the second group. They showed this recently when they announced giving away a DLC that subscribers would own anyway, they’re doing it now with this “quality of life” update that alienates a lot of players and there have been other examples.
Cellphone companies work like this, internet providers work like this. Incentives and deals are almost always for new customers and rarely for existing ones because they already have that business.

I haven’t logged on since the update, I’m still checking the forums because I still have a bit of (unrealistic) hope that ZOS will suddenly wake up and actually start to communicate and admit this was implemented poorly.

If not… well I know this isn’t an airport so I won’t make any announcements.

It’s been a fun time spending thousands of hours in-game. I guess all good things come to an end.

Xorxe · March 2022

I was always for AWA but I thought for myself that they would be never implemented. Because I imagined the hard work to cherry pick the achievements that are suitable for acount-wide and ones that are essential for character integrity. And then redoing some quest and dialogues that are achievement dependant. Huge work, not gona happen. Well I got my wish, AWA are here, but I dreded that ZOS [snip] it up, like companions, like armory, like anything they touch lately (sad to say this, but thats how I see it, and Im not happy about it). And sure as hell ZOS didnt disapoint. They took all the achievement and throw them to one pile, except of those, that can be paid for by crowns, oh no, those just neeeeds to be character based, but other achievos - [snip] them (and players who care about their characters in this way too). GG ZOS you justified my decision to not pay and almost not play after you basicaly declared maintenance mode for this year. And its sad to say, that if you would did nothing, the game would be better :-/

[edited for profanity bypass]

Tandor · March 2022

Ulvich wrote: »

What bothers me the most is that it appears ZM is not listening to the fan base. During the last PTS they asked for feedback, and they got over 90 pages of it mostly asking not to include AwA in the upcoming patch. Now, since the patch, there have been numerous issues regarding skyshards, discovered points, titles, and achievements. This tells me that either ZM did not fully test everything, or they just don't understand (or care about) our points of view.
Today I sent in my feedback right after I canceled my subscription. Being a former programmer myself I hope they come to terms with the mess that has been created and make it right. I hope.

I did the same the other night, cancelled my first account subscription and sent in feedback as to the reasons why - namely the broken way in which the account-wide achievements were implemented despite all the concerns expressed on the PTS and which were never listened to or discussed with the community. My second account subscription will go the same way if nothing changes, both accounts totalling 50 characters that haven't been played since this mess appeared on the PTS, and with just a third account left with a single character on it so that I know whatever he does can't get compromised by these changes. It's so sad that the way I (and many others) have played the game for 8 years has been made impossible.

I'm in a very similar position (and age) to the OP - and yes, I have fond memories of Dungeon Master on the Amiga {or possibly the Atari ST as I had both and really bought the Amiga in order to play Infocom adventures after starting out with a Sinclair Spectrum). Those were exciting and innovative days, I even had my own game published, and every new release took gaming forward (and often required hardware upgrades) but now all sense of innovation has gone and the genre seems not only to have become rather stale but in many cases it's going backwards as changes like this trivialise the way we used to be able to play.

Tandor · March 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance"

I've never had a performance problem in all the years I've played. But I sure feel the sting of having my characters' individuality removed to fix a problem I never had.

Too true! That's my experience too.

Xarc · March 2022

It's really like removing characters and saying to players to only play one.

"oh you can play other chars if you want but dont expect have fun with achievements you already got".

I feel insulted after 8years.

SammyKhajit · March 2022

Sammy has been feeling sad from this whole experience.

This AWA sordid business has achieved nothing but division among the community as well as departures.

ZOS senior management, this one hope you feel proud. Bonus points if you never played the game before.

alberichtano · March 2022

RPGplayer13579 wrote: »

I would say that the next chapter is less impressive as previous chapters. With a card game as the big new feature. There is an interesting questline, but I doubt will have any effect on the game at large or the Three Banners War. On the plus side it looks like my Khajiit character will get a new companion.

It's an MMO. NOTHING will ever change the game at large storywise. It is one of the downsides with MMOs, they can never really change as new players would get confused. As long as we are free to play the content in any order we want, the game world cannot change.

alberichtano · March 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

A PvP marketed MMORPG that sold-out to focus on PvE...for years.

Year after year of performance promises unfulfilled.

Some of the best/popular ESO streamers were PvP w/viewers in the thousands, left to be replaced with streams that barely hit 100 viewers on sleepy overland content, and hard mode trials that most of the ESO community will never do.

No creative incentives/rewards to PvP and bring revenue through PvP.

No new races

Only 2 new classes

One new combat skill line

No new weapon types

No tournament Zeni/ESO streams...instead, cooking...

A hyped up expansion,...is it naval warfare pvp map? Is it boat building to explore a water zone? New class? New skill line? New race? New weapon type?...nope, it's a mini card game.

So ya the hype train left the station, and I gave my ticket away.

That said, it's still the best MMORPG on console atm.

Say what now? This game was never marketed as a PvP-focused game. I would never have started playing it if it had been. It was always heavy on story and RPG-elements, that is to say PvE.

And no, there will probably never be any new races. The ten playable races in ESO are an old tradition from the previous single player games. Indeed, I think many of the long time TES-fans would shudder of the thought of new races.

And no, no new weapon types either - it is hard enough to balance the types there are, let alone make more new ones.

It sounds to me that you are expecting ESO to be more of a wargame?

But yeah, I do agree that the card game is very "meh", as the youth of today would put it.

alberichtano · March 2022

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

show previous quotes

kargen27 wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

I really suggest you to see them as "player achievements" since in the end that's what they are. You have completed those things as a player, the character you were controlling is only the medium through which you did it.

You, as the player, completed those 30 unique quests in Skyrim in 2020, and this is what the game is reflecting now. You can still re-do them all with your new character, the re-playability is still there if that's what you like to do in the game, but you've already accomplished it back then, that's all the achievement says.

People keep saying this but you could not complete anything without a character. It is a team effort between you and your character. Letting another character take credit for something it was not involved with seems wrong. That aside I really wanted to eventually finish the hunter trophies on my main. I was getting really close. When I had some time waiting for trials or some other event to start I would spend time slaughtering mass amounts of something to earn a trophy. I might not give it a go for a month or more and then spend an hour or so for a few days in a row.
The change finished those achievements for me. None of my characters earned them and now none can. I don't feel like I earned them or any sense of accomplishment knowing across my account they are finished. Not done as that implies I did them but finished in that they no longer exist to be done.
Same with fishing. I had multiple characters working toward becoming a master. Now they are all masters and some of them have never seen a pole.
I understand why some wanted account wide achievements. They play different than I do. The problem is the game has been wrecked for me to make it better?? for them. I don't understand why their play style is suddenly deemed so much more important than mine.
They say it is because of performance issues. I hope that is true and we see significant improvement. If not then it was and is the worst move made by the team so far. They have alienated a lot of players and taken away a very popular way to play our way.

Eh I can use your characters to get the same achievements. They are mere tools.

That is your way of looking at it. I would surmise (and correct me if I am wrong) that you see games as challenges, you do them until you perfect your score and move on? Many of us do not play games that way. To us it is the journey, not the goal, that is the point. Achievements in ESO weren't just badges of merit, but indeed the only way to keep track of your characters progress. If there had been other ways it wouldn't have been so much confusion and outrage.

Ask yourself this - if you play, say an FPS, and finish it. And then start over - do you expect everything to be done and over with when you starta a new gameplay? Or do you expect the game to be undone and fresh for your new rerun.

SerafinaWaterstar · March 2022

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.

Please do not tell people how they should play. Your post is rather patronising.

Since inception, this game has encouraged different character creation (18 per server). That is over 7 years of each character having individual achievements - which is the only way to track progression & what have/haven’t done. That is now gone.

That is one of the main areas of complaint about this implementation of AWA, and telling me to ‘switch view’ doesn’t help me work out if my templar healer has done vet HR hm as because my nb has, the ‘achievement’ is marked done.

And it does make a difference. I can dd vet trials on my stamblade & magsorc - but on my warden or dk?! Nah.

Again, whilst I am fully aware that I am the player, I know I have different capabilities when playing different characters - is that too hard for you to understand?

alberichtano · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

But that's just it. They have ruined many of the stories.

Vulkunne · March 2022

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vulkunne wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

Caroloces wrote: »

vindex9ona wrote: »

For every player that feels this way, there is one that feels happy about not having the game suddenly "forget" all I've done in it since 2014 every time I log on a different character (playing TES games since Arena and its 19 floppy disks here). The world is in balance and ZOS cannot make everybody happy at the same time.

Prior to this update, my lovely Orc, Mandanor, did not "forget" that he had achieved Mages Guild Skill Master. It was evident in his achievements. If I logged onto a different character, I would see that character's achievements, and not Mandanor's. I was a classroom teacher before I retired. If I gave "Johnny" a 100 on a spelling test, that score was not forgotten once I gave "Jane" an 85. It would be ludicrous to give "Johnny" a 100 on his test and have that show up as the score for all of my students! And that is exactly the scenario that is taking place in ESO with this update.

This is an online game. At some point the servers will be shut down forever and all characters and their achievements will be lost.
Our comments have nothing to do with cruelty or lack of empathy, but with an healthy relationship with life and the difference between a game and reality.

Switch point of view from character achievements to player achievements and the situation won’t look so bad anymore. In the end, once the game will shut down (no matter if it will be next week or in 10 more years), all that will be left will be your memories of a nice time playing it, and what you achieved in it as a player will only be your own personal thing, tracked nowhere.

All achievements are and have always been player ones fundamentally. Because you, the player, is the only thing real and the one that did all of it in game. And since it’s a game, you did it all for fun and that’s all that matters in the end.
For your own good, I hope you won't attach too many feelings to your characters, as it can never end well.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no "Johnny" and no "Jane" here as separate entities, I hope you realize that it's always you playing all those characters beyond a healthy level of immersion, and therefore all those "votes" regarding what you did and how well you did it can go to you as the player.

You don't understand fam. Please don't be so critical of others feelings. This is exactly why something like this should never have been done because now what was I'm sure a big part of ESO gaming pool is now open to ridicule, as is their way of life. So not only have characters almost completely lost identity you're a fool too for ever imagining them or having an imagination at all, or wanting to explore another fantasy world. Sad. It's just sooo sad.

Wow this could damage the game in more ways than anyone could have ever imagined. I sincerely hope whomever wanted this done, stuck to their guns, completely ignored other options and the players begging them not to do this, I hope you are satisfied.

I've been playing since Beta and lurked on the forums since then and we heard the same exact thing - "this could damage the game in more ways than anyone could have ever imagined" - when One Tamriel launched here on the forums. There were endless quitting threads, cancelling sub threads, people railing on and on and on about lost "feelings of character progression" because they could no longer solo ROFLStomp world bosses in starter zones and we all know many years later that One Tamriel was ultimately a solid move for the game, our own progression, and its longevity. AWA will be the same thing in the end and like One Tamriel is here to say - ZoS outright stated this just like they said for One Tamriel. Unlike One Tamriel AWA is also something the community has been repeatedly asked for since launch so I'm frankly quite happy that we finally have it. Next since we have AWA ZoS should implement Steam Achievements to capitalize on the forward momentum.

Well I'm glad that you will and others who share you opinion will profit greatly off the rest of us who had our right to choose torn away from us, as well part of the game that we wanted to continue to just exist, be erased so you could have the things that you want. Especially many of us who stupidly followed this game or been a part of it for many years. You know this is so weird cause there's no company I know of who would treat their shareholders this badly. Not publicly at least hah >:D

But in a way you're not wrong cause I don't know everything. But I tell you what I do know is that you guys have your reward and I hope you enjoy it and you can have it all. Because its produced from the misery this change has caused others, both those who have been with the game for a long long time and those new people coming in now and will eventually ask why was this done?

Personally, I'm into stealing gold not silver because this change feels like everyone is coming out second place.

Vulkunne · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

Nope. Characters and Identity come first. They're the things that tell the stories. Stories are nothing without the experience which implicitly will be different per character, which can't really experience them proper now, which is why those elements were put in place to begin with.

When ZOS start removing brain matter they didn't care about no stories... totally and completely illogical to fall back to something like that now lol. Talk about much how better the performance will be... lol just ignore the comments out there now about how bad performance is as I said in the beginning, will continue to be because this changes nothing.

It was all about getting at them resources to introduce a new product. That's it.

Vulkunne · March 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

show previous quotes

ADarklore wrote: »

It's interesting... people are always complaining, "Fix your servers... improve performance"

I've never had a performance problem in all the years I've played. But I sure feel the sting of having my characters' individuality removed to fix a problem I never had.

OMG this comment is so dope the Fed Gov needs to legalize it.

Well done you won the Internet today

Exactly how I feel too.

Vulsahdaal · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Actually I think you have this all backward.

The people who are all about achievements, this was a good move for them. They have repeatedly complained about not wanting to play an alt because they dont want to get an achievement on an alt that their main doesnt have yet, OR they done want to play an alt because they HAVE to get 'mind numbing' achievements all over again.

Which at first it really puzzled me why it was so important to them that their main have every achievement possible, and any and all alts must also have every single achievement as well.

My thoughts were, who cares about achievements? Just play the game, and the achievements will come. Or they wont. Doesnt matter.

Then I realized that is just how they play the game. The achievements are the goal. It is the game. It is everything. The object is to beat the game, and you beat the game by getting all the achievements.

Again, this is the group that is happy. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

As for myself, Im in the second group you mention. I dont care about achievements. Seriously. My main who has been with me since early access has an achievement score of 7105/50120.

Im just here for as you put it, the stories. I enjoy the people I run with. Im not worried about getting every single achievement on every character, I just play the game. This is where I come to relax and enjoy myself. I would play whichever of my 15 characters I felt like, their stories and experiences WERE all vastly different so it was nice to have a choice.

But now this choice is gone. And since the update, Ive only logged on just once to collect the daily with my main and within that minute I realized I just couldnt do this I logged out.

For me, this change is NOT a good change.

BTW Im fully aware that I could continue to play my main with no issues, but its difficult for me to log in and see my other characters there and not being able to play them. Of course I could just delete them all except my main so I dont have to look at them, but cant bring myself to do that either.

So Im in a bad position. Ill probably do some things on my main, but the game has lost the allure for me. Ill probably just leave the game so I can keep the memories of my characters as they were, and move on to something different.

I know others have done the same, but what I find interesting is, the first group, the happy with the changes achievement hunting group, many from there will leave also.

With this change, ZOS brought the closer, if not to completion of their goal. To collect all the achievements. To beat the game. Once they have done this, the challenge is over. They will move on to the next as well.

Im really not sure what ZOs game plan here is, but I guess in the end it really doesnt matter.

ADarklore · March 2022

In a year nobody will even be talking about AwA anymore. For many people, change is hard... with MMOs change is literally every couple of months. Every change brings with it walls and walls of text of complaints, only to, a few months later, repeat the cycle. And yet, for all the complaints and 'I'm quitting' posts... ESO continues to roll on, bring in new players, and continue to develop new content. Also, the reality is, long term players are not what keeps ESO going... it's new players, buying new things, things that they don't already have. So if ESO loses long-term players, it really isn't hurt all that bad financially... it isn't ESO+ that sustains ESO, it's Crown Store purchases.

According to ZOS, AwA is both about QoL improvement for many (not all) players but also about improvements to server usage intending to be an investment for the overall health of the game long-term. Personally, I could care less about achievements... I don't play to 'win' or 'beat' the game, I don't play with a checklist... I play to complete the quests, to engage in fun battles, and see what new content ZOS is going to throw at us. IMO, each of my characters may be an individual, BUT... they aren't running around in the world to receive 'pats on the back' achievements... they are out there to help the people of the world. They don't walk around with a checklist of things to do which decides how good they are or decides what kind of person they are... they just DO things because they need/want to be done. That's how "I" play the game. Now, you might play differently, BUT... in the end, the game belongs to ZOS and they can make whatever decisions they feel is right for the continued health of the game. This isn't the first time a huge number of players disagreed with their changes and won't be the last.

Foto1 · March 2022

no

tmbrinks · March 2022

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Actually I think you have this all backward.

The people who are all about achievements, this was a good move for them. They have repeatedly complained about not wanting to play an alt because they dont want to get an achievement on an alt that their main doesnt have yet, OR they done want to play an alt because they HAVE to get 'mind numbing' achievements all over again.

Which at first it really puzzled me why it was so important to them that their main have every achievement possible, and any and all alts must also have every single achievement as well.

My thoughts were, who cares about achievements? Just play the game, and the achievements will come. Or they wont. Doesnt matter.

Then I realized that is just how they play the game. The achievements are the goal. It is the game. It is everything. The object is to beat the game, and you beat the game by getting all the achievements.

Again, this is the group that is happy. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

As for myself, Im in the second group you mention. I dont care about achievements. Seriously. My main who has been with me since early access has an achievement score of 7105/50120.

Im just here for as you put it, the stories. I enjoy the people I run with. Im not worried about getting every single achievement on every character, I just play the game. This is where I come to relax and enjoy myself. I would play whichever of my 15 characters I felt like, their stories and experiences WERE all vastly different so it was nice to have a choice.

But now this choice is gone. And since the update, Ive only logged on just once to collect the daily with my main and within that minute I realized I just couldnt do this I logged out.

For me, this change is NOT a good change.

BTW Im fully aware that I could continue to play my main with no issues, but its difficult for me to log in and see my other characters there and not being able to play them. Of course I could just delete them all except my main so I dont have to look at them, but cant bring myself to do that either.

So Im in a bad position. Ill probably do some things on my main, but the game has lost the allure for me. Ill probably just leave the game so I can keep the memories of my characters as they were, and move on to something different.

I know others have done the same, but what I find interesting is, the first group, the happy with the changes achievement hunting group, many from there will leave also.

With this change, ZOS brought the closer, if not to completion of their goal. To collect all the achievements. To beat the game. Once they have done this, the challenge is over. They will move on to the next as well.

Im really not sure what ZOs game plan here is, but I guess in the end it really doesnt matter.

I care about the achievements. I HATE this change.

Now, if I get an achievement on my alt before my main, it will forever say that it was earned by that alt instead of my main.

If I wanted to accomplish the goal of having all the achievements on one character it now FORCES me to play that main first. (I can't do this because I earned achievements on other characters before my current main even existed that have now overridden their accomplishments)

oregonrob · March 2022

I have been playing ESO for about five years. Over that time I have set up three different accounts and have over 40 characters that I play. Each of them has a different story. Now it appears only one character in each account is going to matter. So literally thousands of hours I have put into this game has evaporated overnight. I did not work towards the Master Crafter achievement, for example, so that everyone in the account could have it. Worse, it appears that since it is account wide, it has become much easier to achieve, which reduces both the challenge and the accomplishment. So why would anyone do that anymore?

I was brought up that the customer is always right. There were 91 pages of comments pointing out the problems with this approach and the change was implemented anyway. We are not just gamers, we are also customers.

I could use all sorts of descriptive phrases here about this change but that would be counter productive. Stated simply, this update has harmed the game and how many gamers play it. However it is also an opportunity to ZeniMax to examine what happened here and come up with a way to salvage the situation. Also a mea culpa goes a long way in a situation like this.

dinokstrunz · March 2022

Do you really think ZoS are going to start listening to its player base now? I've seen ZoS developers outright say "Never listen to people" on their social media accounts referring to feedback & complaints. These aren't the people who are interested in addressing their multitudes of issues within their game.

Nothing is ever going to change unless ZoS change but they've been saying they will improve for years now and guess what. they're still the same old silent ZoS. Pack your bags & leave is the best solution, knowing ZoS they probably want you to leave to.

Amottica · March 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

But that's just it. They have ruined many of the stories.

The stories are still there. They have not changed. Nothing ruined.

shadyjane62 · March 2022

I am sitting here ready to cry because I am down to 3 chars after having had as many as 18. I have just finished doing endeavors and crafting on my main character and usually at this point doing crafting on my two alts.

Now I look at them and say to myself "what's the point" I don't need the stuff or the gold.

After crafting I would do a little pvp and do something on each of my others for variety. I was working on getting them all the skyshards which is a great way to travel over the entire map.

That is gone. Since my main has done them all the icons have disappeared and the addons no longer work.

I am ready to delete two level 50 chars because I can't see playing them anymore since everything is already done.

My husband says I'm ridiculous for feeling so bad over a game. But he has a new PS5 and loads of future gaming.

I don't see that future at the present time because ESO is all I play.

tmbrinks · March 2022

Amottica wrote: »

show previous quotes

alberichtano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

But that's just it. They have ruined many of the stories.

The stories are still there. They have not changed. Nothing ruined.

There are stories you can no longer do on alts because of these changes. That is a verified fact.

sarahthes · March 2022

tmbrinks wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

But that's just it. They have ruined many of the stories.

The stories are still there. They have not changed. Nothing ruined.

There are stories you can no longer do on alts because of these changes. That is a verified fact.

As far as I'm aware there's a handful of epilogues that don't work. I expect these will be patched in the near future.

tmbrinks · March 2022

sarahthes wrote: »

show previous quotes

tmbrinks wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If gaining achievements is the reason a person continues to play a game, sure this was not a good move and the game probably has lost some of the sparkles for them.

However, most play because they enjoy the combat or other systems in the game. They play because they enjoy the stories. They play because they enjoy the people they run with. These people are still into achievements but are not worried about getting every single achievement on every single character they roll because many are mind-numbing after the first few times. For these people, this change is overall a good change.

Time will tell, and it will not take much time, to see if there are many that are truly this upset with this change to AWA. I doubt it will have much impact because it is so much secondary to pretty much everything important for a game's success.

But that's just it. They have ruined many of the stories.

The stories are still there. They have not changed. Nothing ruined.

There are stories you can no longer do on alts because of these changes. That is a verified fact.

As far as I'm aware there's a handful of epilogues that don't work. I expect these will be patched in the near future.

There are bugs that are years old, I have little faith it'll be fixed.