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Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    @Ogou To answer your question. Dunmer and Argonians have roots in stealth gameplay just like Bosmer do, even though stealth is not as important to their identity as it is for Bosmer.
    If ZOS' goals was to increase diversity and make more races viable for more roles, then they failed in regards to stealth as now only Khajiit can really be considered. The lore would have had room for two more stealth races.
    To address your balance concern, Argonians are in need of a rebalance either way and mathematically underperforming. You could add 3m of stealth radius to them and still be within the 6.5 set piece boni no problem. Also, it should be considered that the 3m stealth radius should not be counted as a whole set bonus as it does not affect combat balance in any way, it just adds flavour. DPS parses are unaffected and they would not become more oppressive in PvP because of it either. Giving them a stealth bonus would set them apart from other tank races and give them a unique flavor as well. At worst Argonians in PvP would start using invisibility potions, but that won't make them broken because their potion passive already allows them to reset fights in their favor and invisibility potions are a cancelation of the fight that Khajiit can already obtain without encountering balance issues.
    About Dunmer, Dunmer have nothing that sets them apart from Orcs and Altmer apart from their fire resistance and their dual nature. They are slightly less optimal than both as each of the other races has one more combat related passive than them, Orcs even have two. Adding stealth to them would not be as much of a concern, especially if Orcs gain detection for free with no sacrifice as was proposed earlier. What this request boils down to is increasing the item set standard to 7 set boni for some races without affecting the combat balance or power balance among the alliances. At the end of the day, EP and AD would have 2 stealth races each and DC would have an anti-stealth race to counter them.

    I think when ZOS said they wanted to make more races viable for more roles they were talking specifically about damage, healing and tanking. I don't think balancing stealth was ever something they actually considered.

    True, stealth radius is not a full set bonus as far as overall balance is concerned but the other races already have other "flavor" passives that represent the races a lot better (although, I agree, Argonians could definitely use the buff).

    At the end of the day. This change would require a lot of work from ZOS for something that is, in the grand scheme of things, not that important.
  • Ratzkifal
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    And yes, they could code it back in in no time at all, but they would rather ignore us and wait for us to go away. But 2600 posts seems to indicate that's not going to happen any time soon.

    We are already at 87 pages and close to hitting page 88. Our chances of getting an answer at 100 pages are low, so let's already start thinking of a Bosmer stealth themed party at page 100. If ZOS doesn't give us a celebration, we have to make our own after all!

    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • BlueRaven
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    Taloros wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Oh! Maybe we have been approaching this all wrong. Maybe we should make some nerf "Hunter's Eye" threads, saying it's too strong in PvP and suggest putting them back to the old passive as a solution.

    Well, can't hurt. See you over here:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/482394/bomser-op-in-ic-nerf-hunters-eye/p1?new=1

    I meant what I said as a joke. As in "Well-they-only-listen-to-PvP-nerf-threads-anyway" type commentary. I thought the /sarcasm was implied...
  • BlueRaven
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    And yes, they could code it back in in no time at all, but they would rather ignore us and wait for us to go away. But 2600 posts seems to indicate that's not going to happen any time soon.

    We are already at 87 pages and close to hitting page 88. Our chances of getting an answer at 100 pages are low, so let's already start thinking of a Bosmer stealth themed party at page 100. If ZOS doesn't give us a celebration, we have to make our own after all!

    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D

    Actually I am surprised the thread has gotten this far. I am used to the Blizzard forums where threads have a hard cap of about 21 or so pages. Technically speaking, can threads go infinitely long on these boards?
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    And yes, they could code it back in in no time at all, but they would rather ignore us and wait for us to go away. But 2600 posts seems to indicate that's not going to happen any time soon.

    We are already at 87 pages and close to hitting page 88. Our chances of getting an answer at 100 pages are low, so let's already start thinking of a Bosmer stealth themed party at page 100. If ZOS doesn't give us a celebration, we have to make our own after all!

    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D

    Actually I am surprised the thread has gotten this far. I am used to the Blizzard forums where threads have a hard cap of about 21 or so pages. Technically speaking, can threads go infinitely long on these boards?

    See you at a thousand!
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Part of what's frustrating is that it's such an easy fix. Five minutes of work from the devs, two minutes on the forum to let everyone know and then this thread can close.

    With so many things plaguing ESO right now that ZOS seems to be flat out ignoring (have they rushed to fix anything other than Pummeling Goliath for the PVPers?) it certainly seems like it's so far down the list that we'll certainly hit 100 pages if not the vaunted 1000. ...well, unless ZOS finally decides to lock the thread because they're tired of people wanting Bosmers to have some resemblance to TES Bosmers of lore.

    And just to keep it on topic: Hey ZOS! Your race balancing changes have had a detrimental impact on both PVE and PVP content. Any chance of getting some of those "significant changes coming for the ability and other related mechanics?" Is Monday too soon?

    I think they will fix this when (if) they have good occasion for this, as part of something bigger. But making it as separate change will lead to 10 another open letters on next day.. so I think we may only hope for something like re-balance of stealth, or re-balance of CP, and under those circumstances ZOS can quietly adjust racial passives as part of the global changes and fix this lore breach.
  • Ratzkifal
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    Part of what's frustrating is that it's such an easy fix. Five minutes of work from the devs, two minutes on the forum to let everyone know and then this thread can close.

    With so many things plaguing ESO right now that ZOS seems to be flat out ignoring (have they rushed to fix anything other than Pummeling Goliath for the PVPers?) it certainly seems like it's so far down the list that we'll certainly hit 100 pages if not the vaunted 1000. ...well, unless ZOS finally decides to lock the thread because they're tired of people wanting Bosmers to have some resemblance to TES Bosmers of lore.

    And just to keep it on topic: Hey ZOS! Your race balancing changes have had a detrimental impact on both PVE and PVP content. Any chance of getting some of those "significant changes coming for the ability and other related mechanics?" Is Monday too soon?

    I think they will fix this when (if) they have good occasion for this, as part of something bigger. But making it as separate change will lead to 10 another open letters on next day.. so I think we may only hope for something like re-balance of stealth, or re-balance of CP, and under those circumstances ZOS can quietly adjust racial passives as part of the global changes and fix this lore breach.

    I think you are right and that is really frustrating for me. Not that I couldn't stand other people being right :D But it means that ZOS is okay with leaving things in a broken state for as long as there is no higher purpose behind it. They said they would fix racials. They did (according to themselves) and the next time they'll look at racials again will be in a few years it seems. Despite there being reasons to look at it again right now, even if it's just for 2 seconds.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • thegreatme
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    I think you are right and that is really frustrating for me. Not that I couldn't stand other people being right :D But it means that ZOS is okay with leaving things in a broken state for as long as there is no higher purpose behind it. They said they would fix racials. They did (according to themselves) and the next time they'll look at racials again will be in a few years it seems. Despite there being reasons to look at it again right now, even if it's just for 2 seconds.

    I mean considering the Big Gripe right now is "you canceled an event over a queue that's been broken for five years instead of fixing it before the event?!", ZoS isn't exactly known for timely fixes...

    And I'm not sure that's even ZoS, specifically. I think its just the World of Convenience and Big Corporate that we live in becoming the standard practice instead of the unsuccessful exception that used to be laughed at.

    I'm not really convinced ZoS doesn't know its broken. I'm not convinced nobody at ZoS wants to fix it either. I just think whoever calls the shots doesn't deem it priority enough to see it done because its not monetarily expedient.

    "Niche" playstyles and new fixes to old problems people have learned to tolerate don't sell product. New content does. So...

    tenor.gif?itemid=7551542
    Join my Nocturnal-devoted Mercenary Reach guild! https://esokrakeclan.weebly.com/
    My Artstation | Deviantart | Youtube | Furaffinity

    Thank You ZoS!:
    ◙ Blackfeather Court banker/merchant
    ◙ Gloam Indrik

    Let's See It Happen ZoS:
    ◙ /honorloop emote
    ◙ cross-legged sitting emote
    ◙ Evergloam house
    ◙ Hagraven Polymorph
    ◙ Hagraven Houseguest
    ◙ Re-release Gloam Wolf Mount
  • thegreatme
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D

    Sign me up to help :wink:
    Join my Nocturnal-devoted Mercenary Reach guild! https://esokrakeclan.weebly.com/
    My Artstation | Deviantart | Youtube | Furaffinity

    Thank You ZoS!:
    ◙ Blackfeather Court banker/merchant
    ◙ Gloam Indrik

    Let's See It Happen ZoS:
    ◙ /honorloop emote
    ◙ cross-legged sitting emote
    ◙ Evergloam house
    ◙ Hagraven Polymorph
    ◙ Hagraven Houseguest
    ◙ Re-release Gloam Wolf Mount
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    These constant/consistent changes to balance PvP at the expense of PvE and the half hearted "Everything is still within the lore" self aggrandizements that they do is really wearing thin.

    And yet, look at what all of this has done for PvP. Lag is getting worse, people are saving skill points on Hunter's Eye, PvPers are quitting faster than Bosmer players ever have, and they are cancelling some of their favorite events because they would rather work on new content and crown store goodies than fix the chronic and persistent gameplay problems.

    Everything is on a downward spiral, not just the inept racial changes.

    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    And yes, they could code it back in in no time at all, but they would rather ignore us and wait for us to go away. But 2600 posts seems to indicate that's not going to happen any time soon.

    We are already at 87 pages and close to hitting page 88. Our chances of getting an answer at 100 pages are low, so let's already start thinking of a Bosmer stealth themed party at page 100. If ZOS doesn't give us a celebration, we have to make our own after all!

    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D

    Actually I am surprised the thread has gotten this far. I am used to the Blizzard forums where threads have a hard cap of about 21 or so pages. Technically speaking, can threads go infinitely long on these boards?

    See you at a thousand!

    Don't take this the wrong way, I think you are a great person who I would love to meet. But I really hope I don't see you at 1000 pages as I have no intention of posting that much longer, because I am becoming tired of this game and topic.

    These constant/consistent changes to balance PvP at the expense of PvE and the half hearted "Everything is still within the lore" self aggrandizements that they do is really wearing thin.

    I am an officer in a trading guild and a social guild, I am participating enough to honorably hold those positions. A while back I even joined a young guild filled with inexperienced players as form of game guru. (They did not know how WW bites worked and did not know anything about a lux vendor, for example.) I run contests and help new players, but more and more my heart is not in it. I love(loved?) the ES games and although I never really researched the lore that much, I was happy it was there and that they consistently relied on it. It created a the idea of a full and strong depth to what I was playing.

    And really since these race changes, my love for the series is falling apart. It just feels like all scrim work now. Like you were walking down a fantastically beautiful city street only to have one of the facades fall down, forever breaking the illusion. I tried to forget about ESO for a bit and I played Skyrim. But the moment I thought about ESO the whole world that I loved felt very shallow.

    Right now I feel like I am just treading water until I can find a different game.
    I was kind of joking. My own enjoyment is severely challenged, so I get where you're coming from. All of my 50+ characters are Bosmer. I play them as stealthy, which means I have to use substandard sets instead of the end-game sets people seem to expect high level chars to have. My subscription has lapsed now, and my wallet is closed. Until this is fixed, I will play now and again for free, and come here to complain. Page 100, page 1000, page 1000000 I don't care. I said I will never accept this garbage change, and that's what I am going to do.

    Also, I like your scroll. Very apt.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • thegreatme
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    48155898907_28f848190b_o.jpg

    Work in progress.

    Oh are we doing memes already? I got one :D

    tumblr_ptwgi0KStq1x3ihtco1_640.png
    (if you don't get it, go watch Aggretsuko)
    Join my Nocturnal-devoted Mercenary Reach guild! https://esokrakeclan.weebly.com/
    My Artstation | Deviantart | Youtube | Furaffinity

    Thank You ZoS!:
    ◙ Blackfeather Court banker/merchant
    ◙ Gloam Indrik

    Let's See It Happen ZoS:
    ◙ /honorloop emote
    ◙ cross-legged sitting emote
    ◙ Evergloam house
    ◙ Hagraven Polymorph
    ◙ Hagraven Houseguest
    ◙ Re-release Gloam Wolf Mount
  • Taloros
    Taloros
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    @Taloros You think you can make/find more memes like that for our 100th page celebration? Gotta express our need for stealth artistically :D

    Can and will! :-)

    I'm seriously puzzled as to how that other thread is taken, uhm, seriously by some. Say anything pvp related, and some people will take the opposite stance, no matter what.
  • Ratzkifal
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    Good news everyone. The next update will have one dungeon that's related to Bosmer. Wouldn't it be fitting to fix Bosmer stealth along with the update that's partially related to them?
    Neighboring Elsweyr, Grahtwood’s Elden Root tree is threatened by a deathly corruption that originates from the nearby jungles of Tenmar and the Lair of Maarselok. Grahtwood’s protectors have tried and failed to destroy the Dragon at the center of the blight, so a truce has been called between the forest spirit Selene and her captor, the warlock Carindon. Together, and with your help, they must attempt to save the Elden Root tree before the corruption can spread.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • max_only
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    OsManiaC wrote: »
    Just think of it, you are a veteran elder scrolls player or the modern one with oblivion and skyrim not matters, you hate mmorpgs, but you want to give a try to ESO - just Single player content- ...

    And you choose bosmer because you were a woodelf in all your previous games

    HAHA GET REKT

    Prrrrrrecisely
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Blinkin8r
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    The new Bosmer passives are better than the old ones and are lore friendly.
    II Blinkin II
    Xbox 1 NA
    "A man without the sauce is lost, but the same man can become lost in the sauce."
  • BlueRaven
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    Blinkin8r wrote: »
    The new Bosmer passives are better than the old ones and are lore friendly.

    No.

  • TokenIntellect
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    Blinkin8r wrote: »
    The new Bosmer passives are better than the old ones and are lore friendly.

    How do you figure?

  • haelene
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    One troll is worth 5 pages, at least

    I mean, if you're looking at it in terms of keeping the thread active, sure! ;)

    That said, not really sure that's the best way to get our point across in a meaningful way. (Not like I really believe ZOS is listening anyways, but a girl can dream.)
This discussion has been closed.