MartiniDaniels wrote: »You must mention though that in many cases even OP orc is only slightly (2.5k) above "no racial". So it all just shows that those 258 weapon damage is not that big an issue, and also those tests were made in "ideal" conditions so in any variation from ideal, be it mechanics, stun, moving between targets and so on, bosmer will be coming forward, since passive recovery in comparison to absorb stamina enchantments of dunmer/orc and proc stamina return of redguard and imperial, passive recovery works always no matter what.
Bro, it's up to you how you perceive facts and tests, and if you prefer to think that bosmer is "weak race". I deeply hurt by losing stealth (stealing was always one of my favorite things in all ES games), but combat wise bosmer was considerably buffed with new racials and I'm having great times now in all roles with exception of healer.
Before we had lesser stamina then redguard, less recovery then redguard (if not stacked to huge numbers) and shared damage from stealth with khajiit and that damage was useful only in cancerous builds in PVP and for one-shot of mobs. If anything bosmer was really one of the weakest if not the weakest race in ESO in U20, good for nothing with exception of snipe exploit. Now we have same stamina as everyone, literally best recovery of main resource from all races in real conditions, best mobility if using bow and best burst potential in balanced PVP builds.
I still don't understand this whole "Bosmer are a burst dps race". We have nothing that contributes to burst damage as we're a sustain race. Orcs and Dunmer can burst as they can do more damage in the same time frame, but have to spend more time recovering.MartiniDaniels wrote: »You must mention though that in many cases even OP orc is only slightly (2.5k) above "no racial". So it all just shows that those 258 weapon damage is not that big an issue, and also those tests were made in "ideal" conditions so in any variation from ideal, be it mechanics, stun, moving between targets and so on, bosmer will be coming forward, since passive recovery in comparison to absorb stamina enchantments of dunmer/orc and proc stamina return of redguard and imperial, passive recovery works always no matter what.
Bro, it's up to you how you perceive facts and tests, and if you prefer to think that bosmer is "weak race". I deeply hurt by losing stealth (stealing was always one of my favorite things in all ES games), but combat wise bosmer was considerably buffed with new racials and I'm having great times now in all roles with exception of healer.
Before we had lesser stamina then redguard, less recovery then redguard (if not stacked to huge numbers) and shared damage from stealth with khajiit and that damage was useful only in cancerous builds in PVP and for one-shot of mobs. If anything bosmer was really one of the weakest if not the weakest race in ESO in U20, good for nothing with exception of snipe exploit. Now we have same stamina as everyone, literally best recovery of main resource from all races in real conditions, best mobility if using bow and best burst potential in balanced PVP builds.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »You must mention though that in many cases even OP orc is only slightly (2.5k) above "no racial". So it all just shows that those 258 weapon damage is not that big an issue, and also those tests were made in "ideal" conditions so in any variation from ideal, be it mechanics, stun, moving between targets and so on, bosmer will be coming forward, since passive recovery in comparison to absorb stamina enchantments of dunmer/orc and proc stamina return of redguard and imperial, passive recovery works always no matter what.
Bro, it's up to you how you perceive facts and tests, and if you prefer to think that bosmer is "weak race". I deeply hurt by losing stealth (stealing was always one of my favorite things in all ES games), but combat wise bosmer was considerably buffed with new racials and I'm having great times now in all roles with exception of healer.
Before we had lesser stamina then redguard, less recovery then redguard (if not stacked to huge numbers) and shared damage from stealth with khajiit and that damage was useful only in cancerous builds in PVP and for one-shot of mobs. If anything bosmer was really one of the weakest if not the weakest race in ESO in U20, good for nothing with exception of snipe exploit. Now we have same stamina as everyone, literally best recovery of main resource from all races in real conditions, best mobility if using bow and best burst potential in balanced PVP builds.
No one is saying we're not in a better place than we were, but that's 100% due to the changes to the our other two passives from percent increases to flat values. Not a single person in this thread that I've seen has said we should revert or change those passives. We are only upset at how bad and lore breaking Hunter's Eye is.
I used the 10% stealth bonus damage in PvE because I did a lot of stealthing. It wasn't a big benefit since it was only for one attack and was either wasted on trash that died fast or on a boss that didn't even notice, but at least it was something. Now Hunter's Eye is 100% a PvP passive. If I'm doing a normal dungeon/trail, my base pen plus group buffs means that I don't need 1,500 bonus pen. And in veteran, it's not contributing much of anything because there's not much roll-dodging going on.
Roll dodging is always a DPS loss with regards to Hunter's Eye. Even with set bonuses, the damage lost by not attacking during the roll, plus attacked lost due to the stamina cost means you'll ever make up for it with the bonus damage you're getting. So that means you only will have hunter's eye up if you roll defensively. In PvP, sure everyone rolls all the time, but it's still not enough damage to even notice. And in PvE you rarely have to roll, so your uptime is going to be low. I'd be surprised if Hunters' Eye contributed to 0.5% of your damage in a veteran boss fight.
So Bosmer went from being optimized to cancerous PvP builds to being optimized for impractical niche PvP builds. Not really an improvement.
I still don't understand this whole "Bosmer are a burst dps race". We have nothing that contributes to burst damage as we're a sustain race. Orcs and Dunmer can burst as they can do more damage in the same time frame, but have to spend more time recovering.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVE group dps role hunter's eye is useless other then in moments when you roll-dodge due to mechanics. But same may be said for orcs health proc and sprint speed, dunmers off-resource bonus, khajiit health/off-resource recovery etc.
In PVP and PVE solo, even on magicka character you roll-dodge a lot, because you can't face tank everything with shield anymore and those 5-6 seconds after roll-dodge are decisive in most of the cases. Of course somebody may build for one-way burst, i.e maximum damage with only small recovery, but those are gank builds which are in huge disadvantage in case burst failed. That's why I pointed "balanced" PVP builds. While orc or dunmer should use sustain set or mundus, bosmer can use more damage oriented set to compensate for lack of weapon damage. And even here there are small nuances.. for example bone's pirate provides amazing bonus to recovery, but it can't be used with best food since Artaeum takeaway is food and not drink..
And if we look at what devs are doing, i.e. over-stacked shields nerfed, passive dodge removed, permablocking is in-effective if it is not tank's block during healer's check etc.. they want roll-dodge to be essential and unavoidable part of combat, like it is in many action-RPG games. And when roll-dodge is unavoidable, bosmer will always be in advantage.
why still we don't get a response?
why still we don't get a response?
- I want to learn where can I use "Stealth detection" in Tamriel except - cyroodiil
I’m thinking there will be a quest with actually stealthed Khajiit npcs. Like how there were “trespassing” quests in Morrowind.
So they can say “see, we told you you will need it! XD”
I still like this idea to fix this issue.
Argonian
- Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease and Poison Resistance by 2310 or lower for balance. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Wood Elf
- Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison and Disease Resistance by 2310 or lower for balance. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
They aren't exactly the same and still follows the base lore of ESO better.
I still like this idea to fix this issue.
Argonian
- Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease and Poison Resistance by 2310 or lower for balance. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Wood Elf
- Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison and Disease Resistance by 2310 or lower for balance. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
They aren't exactly the same and still follows the base lore of ESO better.
For the resistances at least. Instead of just removing one from each they should of did something like this for the sake of not breaking ESO's lore.
Sylvermynx wrote: »Jeez, how did this wind up on page 3? And here I'm not even one who DOES stealth bosmer!
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVE group dps role hunter's eye is useless other then in moments when you roll-dodge due to mechanics. But same may be said for orcs health proc and sprint speed, dunmers off-resource bonus, khajiit health/off-resource recovery etc.
In PVP and PVE solo, even on magicka character you roll-dodge a lot, because you can't face tank everything with shield anymore and those 5-6 seconds after roll-dodge are decisive in most of the cases. Of course somebody may build for one-way burst, i.e maximum damage with only small recovery, but those are gank builds which are in huge disadvantage in case burst failed. That's why I pointed "balanced" PVP builds. While orc or dunmer should use sustain set or mundus, bosmer can use more damage oriented set to compensate for lack of weapon damage. And even here there are small nuances.. for example bone's pirate provides amazing bonus to recovery, but it can't be used with best food since Artaeum takeaway is food and not drink..
And if we look at what devs are doing, i.e. over-stacked shields nerfed, passive dodge removed, permablocking is in-effective if it is not tank's block during healer's check etc.. they want roll-dodge to be essential and unavoidable part of combat, like it is in many action-RPG games. And when roll-dodge is unavoidable, bosmer will always be in advantage.
The problem is that, unlike every other racial passive, Hunter's Eye can be made obsolete. With a little bit of thought, you can have enough penetration that Hunter's Eye isn't helping (in PvE). If you have 9,000 pen between base and any buffs/debuffs you can apply, then Hunters' Eye won't help in any solo gameplay because all normal content caps at 9,100 resistance.
And nobody in their right mind is going to try to cap their penetration at 7,600 with the intent of using HE to cover the distance. So you're left with either having too much penetration sometimes or too little others. So Bosmer are either losing DPS by having too little penetration or losing their passive by having too much.
Veteran is a little different since getting max penetration is harder, but you also have your party to help with more buffs/debuffs.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In PVE group dps role hunter's eye is useless other then in moments when you roll-dodge due to mechanics. But same may be said for orcs health proc and sprint speed, dunmers off-resource bonus, khajiit health/off-resource recovery etc.
In PVP and PVE solo, even on magicka character you roll-dodge a lot, because you can't face tank everything with shield anymore and those 5-6 seconds after roll-dodge are decisive in most of the cases. Of course somebody may build for one-way burst, i.e maximum damage with only small recovery, but those are gank builds which are in huge disadvantage in case burst failed. That's why I pointed "balanced" PVP builds. While orc or dunmer should use sustain set or mundus, bosmer can use more damage oriented set to compensate for lack of weapon damage. And even here there are small nuances.. for example bone's pirate provides amazing bonus to recovery, but it can't be used with best food since Artaeum takeaway is food and not drink..
And if we look at what devs are doing, i.e. over-stacked shields nerfed, passive dodge removed, permablocking is in-effective if it is not tank's block during healer's check etc.. they want roll-dodge to be essential and unavoidable part of combat, like it is in many action-RPG games. And when roll-dodge is unavoidable, bosmer will always be in advantage.
The problem is that, unlike every other racial passive, Hunter's Eye can be made obsolete. With a little bit of thought, you can have enough penetration that Hunter's Eye isn't helping (in PvE). If you have 9,000 pen between base and any buffs/debuffs you can apply, then Hunters' Eye won't help in any solo gameplay because all normal content caps at 9,100 resistance.
And nobody in their right mind is going to try to cap their penetration at 7,600 with the intent of using HE to cover the distance. So you're left with either having too much penetration sometimes or too little others. So Bosmer are either losing DPS by having too little penetration or losing their passive by having too much.
Veteran is a little different since getting max penetration is harder, but you also have your party to help with more buffs/debuffs.
Yeah, this is the point.
I love rolling around.
So, I'm happy that dodge roll now adds a little extra speed, even when I don't have bow equipped; even if it isn't very much.
The issue is not them making rolling better (which I view as a good thing) - it is them tying rolling to extra penetration, or in fact tying extra damage to rolling, at all.
If damage has to be tied to dodge roll for some unknown reason (when other races just have it passively), it would at least be far better to tie a damage stat, without a hard cap, to it.
I wish were weren't reduced to talking about how to make the dodge roll portion of Hunter's Eye less terrible. Every single thing about that passive makes no sense, especially for Bosmer.
While, yes, I would be completely happy and stop talking about it if they kept the dodge roll part and just gave stealth back, I don't want to give them ideas on how to fix the dodge roll while not returning stealth.
They need to go back and figure out what makes a Bosmer a Bosmer (hint, it's stealth with some skill at bows) and build the passive around that.
I wish were weren't reduced to talking about how to make the dodge roll portion of Hunter's Eye less terrible. Every single thing about that passive makes no sense, especially for Bosmer.
While, yes, I would be completely happy and stop talking about it if they kept the dodge roll part and just gave stealth back, I don't want to give them ideas on how to fix the dodge roll while not returning stealth.
They need to go back and figure out what makes a Bosmer a Bosmer (hint, it's stealth with some skill at bows) and build the passive around that.