Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

KMarble

wedgebert wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

I was thinking about this today and it occurred to me that at some point someone created a true stealth mission in this game. Many of us have been playing it over and over again for the last days, it's the Princess quest in the Jester's Festival.

So, to the person(s) from the dev team who is(are) said to be reading this thread: heists from TG =/= stealth ; Princess quest from JF = stealth.

As a side note, thank you for the tip about recipes and furnishing plans. My main became a thief because of those.

You mean the quest where you automatically get caught stealing the apples, pay your bounty, then feed them to the pig and run directly through town to turn them in?

Pretty sure stealth isn't used at all during that quest

You use stealth when stealing the apples. Or at least, you should. Granted, most people will bypass it all together to get the quest finished already, but it was meant to be done "the stealthy" way - figure out when and where to crouch, move around the basket and cart to find the best angle, wait to the right moment to steal.

wedgebert

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah, I just crouch down behind the wagon with my best thief (Khajiit now, unfortunately), and steal the apples when the eye is closed. If bounty, I sprint to guard, use Clemency passive, and I have a 60 seconds of guards looking the other way. So I mount up and ride down as fast as I can, grab the princess, and ride back out of town at top speed, before the Clemency wears off.

If I receive no bounty, I do the exact same thing, without the stop at the guard. So, not a stealth quest for me at all!

I've only managed to get the "hide behind the cart" trick to work once. Now I just make sure I don't have any stolen goods on me and just pay the bounty if I get caught.

rpa

I've managed few times to steal crab apples and not get bounty. It is possible. I suspect success is more likely if there are no other players around trying to do same. Stealth is kind of solo thing.

Also I don't find stealth content with time limit and mazey environment with slowly moving stealth detecting mooks particulary fun. To me that kind of stuff feels forced and generic chore instead.

Cundu_Ertur

KMarble wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

The premise is absurd, too; someone contracts out a job to a job board and then once it is taken can't be bothered to wait an extra 5 minutes?

To me the most absurd part of these so called heists is that we do not know where the objectives are.

I actually think that's valid, just not with the impossible timer attached. I should be able to pick the place clean -- so long as no-one sees me and I don't kill anyone it should be max reward.

Cundu_Ertur

rpa wrote: »

Also I don't find stealth content with time limit and mazey environment with slowly moving stealth detecting mooks particulary fun. To me that kind of stuff feels forced and generic chore instead.

Pick two of those bolded things, add the no-kill optional goal and you have a proper TG mission. Switch it up between missions. Timed mission where the objective is known to be in a certain place, not one otherwise.

You know what's odd about the counter-stealth mooks? Not a Bosmer among them; not that I have seen anyhow.

wedgebert

I was thinking about Hunter's Eye this morning (which might explain this blinding headache) and I did find one potential spot where its damage isn't terrible. High damage critical hits.

Because HE is a percent damage increase, not flat, comparing it to the other bonuses at high levels can make a difference because flat weapon damage bonuses will likely make up a smaller percentage of the overall damage.

Just as a quick example, if you crit for 50,000 damage in an ideal situation, you'll end up doing 25,000 (assuming they have no critical resistance). With Hunter's Eye you'll do an extra 1135 damage for 26135 total. While that's still only a 4.5% effective damage increase, when you're talking about 25,000 damage, that might actually be enough to put you over the edge from an enemy with 2% health vs a dead one.

However, this does beg the question about racial differences. Khajiit now have extra critical damage and Bosmer's bonus damage really only matters if you hit for large (i.e. critical) hits. So we lost stealth but turned into a crit race? No wonder my head hurts.

MartiniDaniels

wedgebert wrote: »

I was thinking about Hunter's Eye this morning (which might explain this blinding headache) and I did find one potential spot where its damage isn't terrible. High damage critical hits.

Because HE is a percent damage increase, not flat, comparing it to the other bonuses at high levels can make a difference because flat weapon damage bonuses will likely make up a smaller percentage of the overall damage.

Just as a quick example, if you crit for 50,000 damage in an ideal situation, you'll end up doing 25,000 (assuming they have no critical resistance). With Hunter's Eye you'll do an extra 1135 damage for 26135 total. While that's still only a 4.5% effective damage increase, when you're talking about 25,000 damage, that might actually be enough to put you over the edge from an enemy with 2% health vs a dead one.

However, this does beg the question about racial differences. Khajiit now have extra critical damage and Bosmer's bonus damage really only matters if you hit for large (i.e. critical) hits. So we lost stealth but turned into a crit race? No wonder my head hurts.

Well, why do you need crit for that? It's always 1500 penetration, plain % bonus.
Simply speaking, in conditions where stam recovery above food and class passives matters, i.e. PVP and solo content, bosmer has highest burst/counter-attack potential of all races. So it may be ideal for dealing with players and adds, but pointless against high-HP bosses, something like that.

wedgebert

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, why do you need crit for that? It's always 1500 penetration, plain % bonus.
Simply speaking, in conditions where stam recovery above food and class passives matters, i.e. PVP and solo content, bosmer has highest burst/counter-attack potential of all races. So it may be ideal for dealing with players and adds, but pointless against high-HP bosses, something like that.

You need crit because the bonus damage from penetration is so tiny (22.5 damage for a 1,000 damage hit) that it's worthless at lower levels because it will be easily out healed or shielded. It's like the 6% argonian healing bonus. Because it's unlikely to save you a heal, it doesn't actually do anything. Likewise the Bosmer extra damage is very unlikely to reduce the total number of hits it takes to kill someone. If you it takes 10 hits to kill someone without HE, it's probably still going to take 10 hits to kill them. You'll just kill them with slightly more overkill.

I'm not sure how add resistances work. If they have the same resistance as the boss, then you get the same problems. It's worthless in normal and near worthless in vet. If they have less resistance, then, well HE does even less.

And Bosmer don't have the highest burst, Orc, Dunmer, and Altmer would have that honor. Bosmer are supposed to be a sustain race, not a damage (burst) race. Bosmer are supposed to be able to do more damage over time on account of getting more attacks off.

So if you have an Orc and a Bosmer attack as fast as they can until they run out of stamina, the Orc will do more damage. It's not until you give the recovery time to do its thing that the Bosmer will start to get enough extra attacks to overcome their lack of a damage bonus. But if you try to purposely activate Hunter's Eye, the stamina cost completely negates your sustain bonus.

And therein lies the problem with Hunter's Eye (from the non-stealth side of things). It's a damage boost on an sustain race, so it's going to be weak. It's the same way they broke Spell Recharge on Altmer (didn't want a damage race to have a sustain buff).

A Bosmer, short of having massive amounts of crit chance and damage, will never be able to get enough damage from Hunter's Eye to make up for its cost. Even rolling the minimum of once every 6 seconds to keep Hunter's Eye up will just turn a Bosmer into a weak Orc. And, if what people tell me is true, you roll a lot in PvP, then sustain doesn't matter. No race, no matter how buffed, has the sustain to roll every 3-4 seconds. You will quickly run out of stamina and need pots or external support.

If I were going to PvP, it would be as an Orc or Nord. Orc damage laughs at Hunter's Eye and their sprint bonus rubs dirt in its eye. Their health regen is going to cancel out a lot of Hunter's Eye damage as well. Nords on the other hand will just ignore Hunter's Eye because their racial resistance is almost three times as high as the pen boost. 400% if you attack them with cold damage.

MartiniDaniels

wedgebert wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, why do you need crit for that? It's always 1500 penetration, plain % bonus.
Simply speaking, in conditions where stam recovery above food and class passives matters, i.e. PVP and solo content, bosmer has highest burst/counter-attack potential of all races. So it may be ideal for dealing with players and adds, but pointless against high-HP bosses, something like that.

You need crit because the bonus damage from penetration is so tiny (22.5 damage for a 1,000 damage hit) that it's worthless at lower levels because it will be easily out healed or shielded. It's like the 6% argonian healing bonus. Because it's unlikely to save you a heal, it doesn't actually do anything. Likewise the Bosmer extra damage is very unlikely to reduce the total number of hits it takes to kill someone. If you it takes 10 hits to kill someone without HE, it's probably still going to take 10 hits to kill them. You'll just kill them with slightly more overkill.


If I were going to PvP, it would be as an Orc or Nord. Orc damage laughs at Hunter's Eye and their sprint bonus rubs dirt in its eye. Their health regen is going to cancel out a lot of Hunter's Eye damage as well. Nords on the other hand will just ignore Hunter's Eye because their racial resistance is almost three times as high as the pen boost. 400% if you attack them with cold damage.

You are right that in case of single 1k LA 129 WD (equivalent set bonus to 1500 penetration) will be more profitable, but this is not the case in real situation where LA hits for 10k and skill paired with it hits for 15k. Yes that is halved in PVP and then decreased even more due to resistances (if they are not penetrated), but WD effect will be reduced same way and in any case bosmer passive will give you 2.25% more damage while other races has nothing on top of their 258 damage (and they are forced to use shacklebreaker or serpent sign or cost/recovery jewelry to compensate lack of sustain passive).

It's more complex for khajiit, but if we compare stam dunmer, orc and bosmer in PVP, orc will be tougher for 1k HP and fast at sprinting, dark elf will have more max magicka (for cloak, wings, purge etc) and fire resistance, and bosmer will have more burst damage, more general speed (since you roll-dodge almost on dodge fatigue cool down) and poison resistance.

You may say that bosmer passive doesn't work if you are not under fire and only attacking, but it will be the same for orc and dunmer, if they are not under attack their extra HP/magicka gives nothing. So in PVP/solo all races are quite balanced. It's in min-maxed PVE group content bosmers are slightly behind and also we lost stealth which removed chunk of gameplay and immersion.

wedgebert

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are right that in case of single 1k LA 129 WD (equivalent set bonus to 1500 penetration) will be more profitable, but this is not the case in real situation where LA hits for 10k and skill paired with it hits for 15k. Yes that is halved in PVP and then decreased even more due to resistances (if they are not penetrated), but WD effect will be reduced same way and in any case bosmer passive will give you 2.25% more damage while other races has nothing on top of their 258 damage (and they are forced to use shacklebreaker or serpent sign or cost/recovery jewelry to compensate lack of sustain passive).

It's more complex for khajiit, but if we compare stam dunmer, orc and bosmer in PVP, orc will be tougher for 1k HP and fast at sprinting, dark elf will have more max magicka (for cloak, wings, purge etc) and fire resistance, and bosmer will have more burst damage, more general speed (since you roll-dodge almost on dodge fatigue cool down) and poison resistance.

You may say that bosmer passive doesn't work if you are not under fire and only attacking, but it will be the same for orc and dunmer, if they are not under attack their extra HP/magicka gives nothing. So in PVP/solo all races are quite balanced. It's in min-maxed PVE group content bosmers are slightly behind and also we lost stealth which removed chunk of gameplay and immersion.

I'll be honest, I'm not 100% up to date with the PvP differences to damages, but I think for the most part it's not too important since most of the math cancels out. It's only weird ones like the Bosmer penetration bonus that throw wrenches into the math. So if I get something wrong, that's why.

I still disagree with your assertion that Bosmer are good at burst. None of their skills lend themselves to burst. Burst is doing a lot of damage in a short period of time while Bosmer are a sustain race that is meant to keep doing damage after their opponents are out of resources. Orcs, Dunmer, and Altmer are burst classes, they get more damage per strike and no sustain to keep them going. Where as Breton and Bosmer are sustain classes with Breton have cheaper abilities and Bosmer more sustain.

That 2.25% damage bonus though is coming at a huge cost. Even at 75% reduction, if you're rolling on cool down (every three seconds?), that means you're spending 900 stamina every three seconds which needs 600 stamina recovery to counter. Plus every roll is a significant portion of time that you're not attacking.

I never said anything about Bosmer not working if you're not under fire. Rather it's a huge DPS loss to use, so it's stupid to use offensively. In the time it takes to roll, you can get off at least one attack, and probably a light attack/ability combo. It would take 44 of those combos with Hunter's Eye just to make up for the loss of the one combo you missed by rolling.

Seraphayel

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

MartiniDaniels

wedgebert wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are right that in case of single 1k LA 129 WD (equivalent set bonus to 1500 penetration) will be more profitable, but this is not the case in real situation where LA hits for 10k and skill paired with it hits for 15k. Yes that is halved in PVP and then decreased even more due to resistances (if they are not penetrated), but WD effect will be reduced same way and in any case bosmer passive will give you 2.25% more damage while other races has nothing on top of their 258 damage (and they are forced to use shacklebreaker or serpent sign or cost/recovery jewelry to compensate lack of sustain passive).

It's more complex for khajiit, but if we compare stam dunmer, orc and bosmer in PVP, orc will be tougher for 1k HP and fast at sprinting, dark elf will have more max magicka (for cloak, wings, purge etc) and fire resistance, and bosmer will have more burst damage, more general speed (since you roll-dodge almost on dodge fatigue cool down) and poison resistance.

You may say that bosmer passive doesn't work if you are not under fire and only attacking, but it will be the same for orc and dunmer, if they are not under attack their extra HP/magicka gives nothing. So in PVP/solo all races are quite balanced. It's in min-maxed PVE group content bosmers are slightly behind and also we lost stealth which removed chunk of gameplay and immersion.

I'll be honest, I'm not 100% up to date with the PvP differences to damages, but I think for the most part it's not too important since most of the math cancels out. It's only weird ones like the Bosmer penetration bonus that throw wrenches into the math. So if I get something wrong, that's why.

I still disagree with your assertion that Bosmer are good at burst. None of their skills lend themselves to burst. Burst is doing a lot of damage in a short period of time while Bosmer are a sustain race that is meant to keep doing damage after their opponents are out of resources. Orcs, Dunmer, and Altmer are burst classes, they get more damage per strike and no sustain to keep them going. Where as Breton and Bosmer are sustain classes with Breton have cheaper abilities and Bosmer more sustain.

That 2.25% damage bonus though is coming at a huge cost. Even at 75% reduction, if you're rolling on cool down (every three seconds?), that means you're spending 900 stamina every three seconds which needs 600 stamina recovery to counter. Plus every roll is a significant portion of time that you're not attacking.

I never said anything about Bosmer not working if you're not under fire. Rather it's a huge DPS loss to use, so it's stupid to use offensively. In the time it takes to roll, you can get off at least one attack, and probably a light attack/ability combo. It would take 44 of those combos with Hunter's Eye just to make up for the loss of the one combo you missed by rolling.

In theory some squishy one-way burst will be higher on orc or dark elf. But in practice every build has a lot of investment in extra recovery, otherwise they will run out of resources too fast. I don't know how to explain it but there is some amount of resources you need per second in active encounter. If that balance is lower then needed you will run out of stamina extremely fast, will be unable to dodge/break free when needed and then executed in seconds.
It's same in PVE, if you will parse at dummy on blue food without ton of sustain nuances accounted, you will be out of resources in 20 seconds. It's only when all possible factors are accounted and all sources of sustain used those high dps parses become available.
There is no point to calculate it all on paper, formulas and dependencies are too complex imo.

Khipu

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

Seraphayel

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

Khipu

This thread is kinda sorta a whole lotta, about breaking lore; nothing to describe with the adjective, slight, anywhere.

My point is SE is not breaking lore, just a promise. In this case is apples and oranges.

MartiniDaniels

Seraphayel wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

It's as bad comparison as it is. Even on shield changes there were no threads with 1000 agree's and so on. ESO forum is closed to vote from bypassers, you can't even register at will. And I don't remember thread reaching 200 pages no matter the topic. Oh, ok, there is such a thread - 3 word story which last from 2014.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129396/3-word-story-the-elder-scrolls-way/p1

In terms of population of ESO forum this thread has more then enough support to prove it's point.

SpringEternal

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

It's as bad comparison as it is. Even on shield changes there were no threads with 1000 agree's and so on. ESO forum is closed to vote from bypassers, you can't even register at will. And I don't remember thread reaching 200 pages no matter the topic. Oh, ok, there is such a thread - 3 word story which last from 2014.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129396/3-word-story-the-elder-scrolls-way/p1

In terms of population of ESO forum this thread has more then enough support to prove it's point.

Can confirm this forum is a pain to join. I was never motivated enough to jump through all the hoops before... until this issue. The only reason I finally joined was so that I could hit "Agree" on this thread and others like it.

Without knowing how large and active the SE community is in comparison to ESO's, those numbers don't really tell us much.

Bladerunner1

Watching this thread surpass 50 pages is no surprise. The stealth change is unpopular by a very wide margin, even on a poll posted in the Combat section many weeks after the change, in a place where people might be more interested in game mechanics than lore.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465076/bosmer-poll#latest

KMarble

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

The premise is absurd, too; someone contracts out a job to a job board and then once it is taken can't be bothered to wait an extra 5 minutes?

To me the most absurd part of these so called heists is that we do not know where the objectives are.

I actually think that's valid, just not with the impossible timer attached. I should be able to pick the place clean -- so long as no-one sees me and I don't kill anyone it should be max reward.

Yeah, I understand that to make the content somewhat challenging they chose to go that way (targets that aren't disclosed beforehand or on the map).

I just find it funny that on several quests throughout the game we're going after some unknown person/thing and as soon as we get to the proper area, there's a huge marker there. Meanwhile, on heists - which, to me imply planning - we don't know where the target is.

I agree with you, there shouldn't be a timer, and not only should we be able to pick the place clean, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get better rewards if you managed to get more loot. Something similar to a quest in MW where you have to break into a Telvanni room and if you get caught you're teleported out.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

You know what's odd about the counter-stealth mooks? Not a Bosmer among them; not that I have seen anyhow.

Well, the content was created when Bosmers were still...you know?...Bosmers.

IwakuraLain42

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

It's as bad comparison as it is. Even on shield changes there were no threads with 1000 agree's and so on. ESO forum is closed to vote from bypassers, you can't even register at will. And I don't remember thread reaching 200 pages no matter the topic. Oh, ok, there is such a thread - 3 word story which last from 2014.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129396/3-word-story-the-elder-scrolls-way/p1

In terms of population of ESO forum this thread has more then enough support to prove it's point.

The SE forums are as closed as the ESO forums. You need a valid SE Account (you need to have bought the game) to aces them. So they are comparable to this forum. But I don’t think that there are more unique posters the here. You will (as is the case here) often See the same players.

Oh, and SE gave a reason for their decisions: they really wanted to add both races and ran out of time adapting the character models for all gear sets in the game. In generell they are way more communicative then ZOS (which isn’t hard ...)

MartiniDaniels

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

It's as bad comparison as it is. Even on shield changes there were no threads with 1000 agree's and so on. ESO forum is closed to vote from bypassers, you can't even register at will. And I don't remember thread reaching 200 pages no matter the topic. Oh, ok, there is such a thread - 3 word story which last from 2014.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129396/3-word-story-the-elder-scrolls-way/p1

In terms of population of ESO forum this thread has more then enough support to prove it's point.

The SE forums are as closed as the ESO forums. You need a valid SE Account (you need to have bought the game) to aces them. So they are comparable to this forum. But I don’t think that there are more unique posters the here. You will (as is the case here) often See the same players.

Oh, and SE gave a reason for their decisions: they really wanted to add both races and ran out of time adapting the character models for all gear sets in the game. In generell they are way more communicative then ZOS (which isn’t hard ...)

Well, we may estimate max ESO current forum population from last poll on p2w issue (which infuriates everybody), it's ~ 961 people.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465524/is-buying-skyshard-sp-pay-to-win/p1
Now let's check latest racial preference poll, it's 416 people who are not lazy to answer:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463681/so-what-race-is-your-main-now/p1
10% of them are bosmer mains. This thread first message has 90 agrees, 15 insight, 25 awesomes, i.e. 130 votes.
Given number above we have 14% support of overall population and 30% of active population and three times more then amount of bosmer mains. If we account that this is secondary passive parameter of non-meta race, it looks like wholeheartedly support of majority of forum (from those who cares about lore).

Cundu_Ertur

Thanks for the bumps again, visit again soon.

Koronach

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is kinda sorta a whole lotta, about breaking lore; nothing to describe with the adjective, slight, anywhere.

My point is SE is not breaking lore, just a promise. In this case is apples and oranges.

How about this then? Here's some actual evidence that ZoS are breaking lore. Not about Bosmer but still, here's proof they are willing to break lore. When they stood up on stage and told everyone "They pay attention to the lore." said in the race change thread on PTS "We want to preserve established lore." That's not what we are seeing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462221/argonians-losing-their-resistance-to-poison-an-open-letter/p1

billp_ESO

ZoS will probably let you have the stealth bonus back, behind a pay wall.

Khipu

Koronach wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is kinda sorta a whole lotta, about breaking lore; nothing to describe with the adjective, slight, anywhere.

My point is SE is not breaking lore, just a promise. In this case is apples and oranges.

How about this then? Here's some actual evidence that ZoS are breaking lore. Not about Bosmer but still, here's proof they are willing to break lore. When they stood up on stage and told everyone "They pay attention to the lore." said in the race change thread on PTS "We want to preserve established lore." That's not what we are seeing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462221/argonians-losing-their-resistance-to-poison-an-open-letter/p1

SE=Square Enix. I just was commenting on the post before mine. They've had gender exclusive races (their lore)

The irony is, just how really similar is disregarding long established lore, having engendered trust from your audience, to flat out breaking a fully archived promise you made to your audience? It's good you brought that point up @Koronach , because it definitely helps with understanding the answer.

slightly edited for clarity

Khipu

Seraphayel wrote: »

kirinsosodepub19_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In SE's defense as it would relate to this thread, they aren't breaking lore at all, more like reintroducing it!

That's right, it's still a broken promise they gave years ago. I don't really care about the gender-locked races, just wanted to point out the slight difference between FFXIV community and ESO community when it comes to meaningful issues and community wide support for that topic.

Therefore, I take issue with this Bold portion.

Eiron77

Seraphayel wrote: »

FYI:

In the upcoming Final Fantasy XIV expansion called "Shadowbringers" SquareEnix decided to deliver two gender-locked races when they stated years ago gender-locked races would never be a thing. The community is not very pleased by that and voices its concerns in the forums. That's a topic where community outrage is understandable and there is a lot and I mean a lot of support. You can check the FF XIV forums for that:

On the only female race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support (initial post has almost 1550 likes, the thread has over 219 pages)

On the only male race: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support! (initial post has more than 1000 likes and 50 pages)

And there are several more threads in the scope of the mentioned two.

Why do I bring this up in this thread? To compare a reasonable outrage and one that has barely any reason to exist. Support for the different topics shows that too. Bosmer losing stealth can easily be adjusted by changing equipment and adapting. That's it. The racial change might be questionable from a lore standpoint but in the end it's totally negligible. That's the reason why ZOS has decided to ignore this thread as of now. Oh and for sure by the very small support this topic gets from the community.

In your opinion.. Why do you keep putting condescending words into ZOS' mouth? Why do you think that you speak for them? This thread obviously triggers your anger and I suggest you stop adding irrelevant comments just to attack it's existence.

This thread is breaking no forum rules as far as I am aware. If you feel it is, report it and move on and find happiness in your life.

Cundu_Ertur

Pffff, they're always good for another 2 pages of posts.

edit to add: we couldn't have made it past the Outfits Megathread without them!

anadandy

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Pffff, they're always good for another 2 pages of posts.

edit to add: we couldn't have made it past the Outfits Megathread without them!

#Roadto60

max_only

I’ve been playing Elder Scrolls Blades. There isn’t any mechanic for range or stealth attacks so they gave Bosmer 15% Poison Resistance and 5% Damage with Abilities.

I don’t recommend it, it’s an unfinished cash grab. And I don’t say that lightly.

Hopefully the mobile team doesn’t come over here or else we’ll have to buy our stealth back with gems.