Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

wedgebert

max_only wrote: »

I’ve been playing Elder Scrolls Blades. There isn’t any mechanic for range or stealth attacks so they gave Bosmer 15% Poison Resistance and 5% Damage with Abilities.

I don’t recommend it, it’s an unfinished cash grab. And I don’t say that lightly.

Hopefully the mobile team doesn’t come over here or else we’ll have to buy our stealth back with gems.

Shh, our devs might hear you!

Nerouyn

52 pages. Wow.

Ratzkifal

I really don't get why some people get so worked up about our thread. It's not like they were getting rashes or headaches from Bosmer having a bonus to stealth before Wrathstone, so what is their problem with people wanting it back? Or am I missing an older thread complaining about Bosmer stealth being OP but Khajiit stealth being totally fine?

Eitherway, to get back to what we were discussing before the weird digression, I wouldn't like a new stealth skill line if it meant that Bosmer would lose their stealth racial passives for good. There has to be ties to the race there, otherwise Bosmer is only left with being "good at sustain" which they have to share with Redguards. Adding a stealth component to racials makes achieving uniqueness of playstyle easier.
Prior to Wrathstone, Altmer were focused on damage and Bretons on sustain. Now that Bretons are good at damage too, ZOS probably thought that they needed to increase their differences again and gave them the stamina passive. If it would be quite neat if it didn't go against the lore that much and had more consistency behind its explanation. Bosmer and Redguards are even closer together in terms of theme as long as stealth isn't part of the Bosmer identity within ESO! S
ince Khajiit are hybrid and focused on crits, I think they are already quite distinguished enough from Bosmer so that returning the stealth radius wouldn't hurt them while also separating Redguard and Bosmer more distinctly.

I continue to be worried and hope that ZOS' mysterious and ominous future plans are a whole lot better than the last attempt.

As a thought, how would you like it if each race had a unique version of the supposed stealth skill/passive line? I feel that would work well as it doesn't interfere with the combat related racial passives. I can imagine that players who don't engage in stealth wouldn't be too thrilled about having to unlock a stealth passive first before they can get to the juicy stuff like stam regen. Having an aspect of the racial identity separated from the "traditional racial passives" could work as long as it is treated with care.

Jaraal

I see they still haven't fixed this guy yet. When are they going to rewrite all this old dialogue, and hire new voice actors? Surely they took this sort of thing into account when changing the lore? There are many instances besides this one that need editing to make sense.

anadandy

Bosmers are still good at stealing because they can detect the object they're stealing even when it's in stealth!

I really hope I don't need the /s on this one...

Jaraal

anadandy wrote: »

Bosmers are still good at stealing because they can detect the object they're stealing even when it's in stealth!

I really hope I don't need the /s on this one...

Yeah, you'd think shopkeepers would be hiring Bosmer sentries to protect their wares from Khajiit thieves!

MartiniDaniels

Jaraal wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

Bosmers are still good at stealing because they can detect the object they're stealing even when it's in stealth!

I really hope I don't need the /s on this one...

Yeah, you'd think shopkeepers would be hiring Bosmer sentries to protect their wares from Khajiit thieves!

My bosmer is DK, like all guards, you know with those chains ,claws and fossilize.. probably I knew how it will all end up when I created her year ago now with removal of wings it's like an arrow in a knee, guarding is the only work i can do.. probably devs may do this like a little PVP in overland.. i.e. some players receive small stable gold income for hanging around as guards and then traders get something worth stealing, so other players will try to do it.

Alaya

I would really like to see Hunter's Eye fixed to be lore friendly and not have literally one of the worst passives in the entire game like we have now. There's no reason to put points in it, even the roll bonus is useless.

Ratzkifal

Alaya wrote: »

I would really like to see Hunter's Eye fixed to be lore friendly and not have literally one of the worst passives in the entire game like we have now. There's no reason to put points in it, even the roll bonus is useless.

Since it is the "first passive" it's probably meant to have a small impact, which translates in the common tongue to being useless. With the stamina cost of dodgeroll, it really does have only a small impact to the point that you shouldn't try to make use of it unless you have another reason to dodgeroll. At which point I have to ask, why have it in the first place?
At least Altmer will be using class skills on any build, while you can go through an entire fight without needing to dodgeroll once. Meanwhile Redguards get 8% reduced weapon costs and 15% reduced snare effectiveness in the same slot.

Despite the overall improvement (except for Argonians I guess), the current balance seems weird. ZOS wanted the passives to become increasingly more powerful, but they have very different rates of scaling. If we take the Redguard, then their first passives is far more powerful than the Bosmer's first (hunter's eye), then Bosmer get the better second passive thanks to their poison resistance on top of the 2k stam they have in common and then their third passive Bosmer is stronger again but it's balanced because the Redguard's first passive makes it equal? So, does that mean Hunter's Eye sucks because the 258 regen are too strong? If Hunter's Eye can't pack too much of a punch for combat balance, why have it be combat related at all? Oh well, at least we still have a the bonus to stealth... Nevermind.

billp_ESO

I've learned over the last 15+ years of playing MMO's that you shouldn't expect the game to stay the same. Characters you spent real time building up can and will be fundamentally changed at any time.

ZoS does seem particularly heavy-handed though.

wedgebert

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Since it is the "first passive" it's probably meant to have a small impact, which translates in the common tongue to being useless. With the stamina cost of dodgeroll, it really does have only a small impact to the point that you shouldn't try to make use of it unless you have another reason to dodgeroll. At which point I have to ask, why have it in the first place?
At least Altmer will be using class skills on any build, while you can go through an entire fight without needing to dodgeroll once. Meanwhile Redguards get 8% reduced weapon costs and 15% reduced snare effectiveness in the same slot.

Despite the overall improvement (except for Argonians I guess), the current balance seems weird. ZOS wanted the passives to become increasingly more powerful, but they have very different rates of scaling. If we take the Redguard, then their first passives is far more powerful than the Bosmer's first (hunter's eye), then Bosmer get the better second passive thanks to their poison resistance on top of the 2k stam they have in common and then their third passive Bosmer is stronger again but it's balanced because the Redguard's first passive makes it equal? So, does that mean Hunter's Eye sucks because the 258 regen are too strong? If Hunter's Eye can't pack too much of a punch for combat balance, why have it be combat related at all? Oh well, at least we still have a the bonus to stealth... Nevermind.

Summary of reasons why Hunter's Eye sucks

1: It took away the only core racial identity the Bosmer had, that of being a stealthy race of thieves. Their aptitude with bows is not represented in game since having an XP bonus to the bow line is not the same as being a good archer. Both Orcs and Dunmer are better archers since they get actual bonuses to bow (weapon) damage.

2: The damage/movement bonus from hunter's eye is very weak and expensive to activate. This makes sense in that Bosmer are a sustain race and they didn't want to give a damage bonus to a sustain race (similar to taking away the Altmer magicka recovery since they're a damage race). It's actually a major DPS lose to dodge roll if you don't need to, so Bosmer get weaker if they try to keep HE active. So in return for losing our core identity, we got a very weak passive that doesn't make a lick of sense for Bosmer and actually better fits Khajiit (they were the top acrobatics race until Skyrim removed acrobatics as a skill).

3: Stealth detection is 100% useless in PvE. There are no stealthed NPCs that you can detect. So they said "stealth wasn't always useful in PvE because some enemies can't be stealthed by, so in return here's a skill that instead of only being usable 10% of the time, is never usable".

4: In PvP it's a negligible bonus. Why choose Bosmer for 3m of stealth detection when I can drink a detection pot for 20m? It's like choosing Redguard for their snare reduction except even less useful.

5: In PvP the bonus stealth detection actually makes it harder for the Bosmer to sneak around because other stealthed enemies will know the Bosmer is nearby from an even greater distance. The Hidden Eye indicator starts to open the closer you are to being discovered. So if normal stealth detection is 5m and the eye starts opening at 8m, a Bosmer has 8m of detection, but the eye opens at 11m. In lore, we're the most stealthy race, in game we're the least.

6: Given the low levels of boss resistance in end game PvE content (9.1k and 18.2k for normal/vet), an extra 1500 pen isn't helpful because you're at or close to the pen cap when you take party buffs and debuffs into account. This means that, in combination with #3, Hunter's Eye is a PvP only talent. Bosmer are already at/near the bottom of stamina DPS races, why further punish them with one less passive compared to other races (with the possible exception of Altmer, Spell Recharge is pretty much PvP only too).

I don't think the passives are really meant to get more powerful as you go down. Breton and Orc both start with max resources, In fact, all the Breton passives are strong. Dunmer have their 2nd passive being the weakest.

I think it's just bad game design combined with not caring about lore (which is why it happened when the loremaster position was empty)

mayasunrising

I agree with the OP. And very well written and supported!

Ratzkifal

I really don't see how ZOS can fix this mess without going back to the racials again. Imagine if they made a mistake like that in their class update with Elsweyr. "Looks like we completely broke DK. Well, I guess that's something for Update 23 where we'll (probably) add a new mystery feature that is supposed to remedy that, but still leaves DK in the sorry state we left them".
Somehow I can't see them doing that because the outrage is always greater whenever it is about classes and "meaningful" gameplay like PvP and PvE - not something silly, unimportant and niche as stealth.

Oh well, let's hope they surprise us and whatever they have in store is actually really good and fixes Bosmer identity the right way.

Jaraal

wedgebert wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Since it is the "first passive" it's probably meant to have a small impact, which translates in the common tongue to being useless. With the stamina cost of dodgeroll, it really does have only a small impact to the point that you shouldn't try to make use of it unless you have another reason to dodgeroll. At which point I have to ask, why have it in the first place?
At least Altmer will be using class skills on any build, while you can go through an entire fight without needing to dodgeroll once. Meanwhile Redguards get 8% reduced weapon costs and 15% reduced snare effectiveness in the same slot.

Despite the overall improvement (except for Argonians I guess), the current balance seems weird. ZOS wanted the passives to become increasingly more powerful, but they have very different rates of scaling. If we take the Redguard, then their first passives is far more powerful than the Bosmer's first (hunter's eye), then Bosmer get the better second passive thanks to their poison resistance on top of the 2k stam they have in common and then their third passive Bosmer is stronger again but it's balanced because the Redguard's first passive makes it equal? So, does that mean Hunter's Eye sucks because the 258 regen are too strong? If Hunter's Eye can't pack too much of a punch for combat balance, why have it be combat related at all? Oh well, at least we still have a the bonus to stealth... Nevermind.

Summary of reasons why Hunter's Eye sucks

1: It took away the only core racial identity the Bosmer had, that of being a stealthy race of thieves. Their aptitude with bows is not represented in game since having an XP bonus to the bow line is not the same as being a good archer. Both Orcs and Dunmer are better archers since they get actual bonuses to bow (weapon) damage.

2: The damage/movement bonus from hunter's eye is very weak and expensive to activate. This makes sense in that Bosmer are a sustain race and they didn't want to give a damage bonus to a sustain race (similar to taking away the Altmer magicka recovery since they're a damage race). It's actually a major DPS lose to dodge roll if you don't need to, so Bosmer get weaker if they try to keep HE active. So in return for losing our core identity, we got a very weak passive that doesn't make a lick of sense for Bosmer and actually better fits Khajiit (they were the top acrobatics race until Skyrim removed acrobatics as a skill).

3: Stealth detection is 100% useless in PvE. There are no stealthed NPCs that you can detect. So they said "stealth wasn't always useful in PvE because some enemies can't be stealthed by, so in return here's a skill that instead of only being usable 10% of the time, is never usable".

4: In PvP it's a negligible bonus. Why choose Bosmer for 3m of stealth detection when I can drink a detection pot for 20m? It's like choosing Redguard for their snare reduction except even less useful.

5: In PvP the bonus stealth detection actually makes it harder for the Bosmer to sneak around because other stealthed enemies will know the Bosmer is nearby from an even greater distance. The Hidden Eye indicator starts to open the closer you are to being discovered. So if normal stealth detection is 5m and the eye starts opening at 8m, a Bosmer has 8m of detection, but the eye opens at 11m. In lore, we're the most stealthy race, in game we're the least.

6: Given the low levels of boss resistance in end game PvE content (9.1k and 18.2k for normal/vet), an extra 1500 pen isn't helpful because you're at or close to the pen cap when you take party buffs and debuffs into account. This means that, in combination with #3, Hunter's Eye is a PvP only talent. Bosmer are already at/near the bottom of stamina DPS races, why further punish them with one less passive compared to other races (with the possible exception of Altmer, Spell Recharge is pretty much PvP only too).

I don't think the passives are really meant to get more powerful as you go down. Breton and Orc both start with max resources, In fact, all the Breton passives are strong. Dunmer have their 2nd passive being the weakest.

I think it's just bad game design combined with not caring about lore (which is why it happened when the loremaster position was empty)

Well summarized, and it explains why they remain silent on the issue. I mean, how can you even counter that? I’ve tried playing devil’s advocate, and all I can come up with is “Well, we wanted to make Bosmer unique from the other races!”

Other than that, I got nothin’!

Ratzkifal

Jaraal wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Since it is the "first passive" it's probably meant to have a small impact, which translates in the common tongue to being useless. With the stamina cost of dodgeroll, it really does have only a small impact to the point that you shouldn't try to make use of it unless you have another reason to dodgeroll. At which point I have to ask, why have it in the first place?
At least Altmer will be using class skills on any build, while you can go through an entire fight without needing to dodgeroll once. Meanwhile Redguards get 8% reduced weapon costs and 15% reduced snare effectiveness in the same slot.

Despite the overall improvement (except for Argonians I guess), the current balance seems weird. ZOS wanted the passives to become increasingly more powerful, but they have very different rates of scaling. If we take the Redguard, then their first passives is far more powerful than the Bosmer's first (hunter's eye), then Bosmer get the better second passive thanks to their poison resistance on top of the 2k stam they have in common and then their third passive Bosmer is stronger again but it's balanced because the Redguard's first passive makes it equal? So, does that mean Hunter's Eye sucks because the 258 regen are too strong? If Hunter's Eye can't pack too much of a punch for combat balance, why have it be combat related at all? Oh well, at least we still have a the bonus to stealth... Nevermind.

Summary of reasons why Hunter's Eye sucks

1: It took away the only core racial identity the Bosmer had, that of being a stealthy race of thieves. Their aptitude with bows is not represented in game since having an XP bonus to the bow line is not the same as being a good archer. Both Orcs and Dunmer are better archers since they get actual bonuses to bow (weapon) damage.

2: The damage/movement bonus from hunter's eye is very weak and expensive to activate. This makes sense in that Bosmer are a sustain race and they didn't want to give a damage bonus to a sustain race (similar to taking away the Altmer magicka recovery since they're a damage race). It's actually a major DPS lose to dodge roll if you don't need to, so Bosmer get weaker if they try to keep HE active. So in return for losing our core identity, we got a very weak passive that doesn't make a lick of sense for Bosmer and actually better fits Khajiit (they were the top acrobatics race until Skyrim removed acrobatics as a skill).

3: Stealth detection is 100% useless in PvE. There are no stealthed NPCs that you can detect. So they said "stealth wasn't always useful in PvE because some enemies can't be stealthed by, so in return here's a skill that instead of only being usable 10% of the time, is never usable".

4: In PvP it's a negligible bonus. Why choose Bosmer for 3m of stealth detection when I can drink a detection pot for 20m? It's like choosing Redguard for their snare reduction except even less useful.

5: In PvP the bonus stealth detection actually makes it harder for the Bosmer to sneak around because other stealthed enemies will know the Bosmer is nearby from an even greater distance. The Hidden Eye indicator starts to open the closer you are to being discovered. So if normal stealth detection is 5m and the eye starts opening at 8m, a Bosmer has 8m of detection, but the eye opens at 11m. In lore, we're the most stealthy race, in game we're the least.

6: Given the low levels of boss resistance in end game PvE content (9.1k and 18.2k for normal/vet), an extra 1500 pen isn't helpful because you're at or close to the pen cap when you take party buffs and debuffs into account. This means that, in combination with #3, Hunter's Eye is a PvP only talent. Bosmer are already at/near the bottom of stamina DPS races, why further punish them with one less passive compared to other races (with the possible exception of Altmer, Spell Recharge is pretty much PvP only too).

I don't think the passives are really meant to get more powerful as you go down. Breton and Orc both start with max resources, In fact, all the Breton passives are strong. Dunmer have their 2nd passive being the weakest.

I think it's just bad game design combined with not caring about lore (which is why it happened when the loremaster position was empty)

Well summarized, and it explains why they remain silent on the issue. I mean, how can you even counter that? I’ve tried playing devil’s advocate, and all I can come up with is “Well, we wanted to make Bosmer unique from the other races!”

Other than that, I got nothin’!

Nothing here either. Playing devil's advocate is quite hard when you have to try and defend a mistake. Pretty much why I left the debating team in school. When one side is basing their entire view on a false assumption, then all you can do is hope nobody points that out. Otherwise everything starts crumbling.
So unless ZOS comes out and tells us something we don't already know that could change our views, the only thing they can do is admit that it was a mistake and try to fix it. Other game companies did it too and there is no shame behind that nor will your sales go down and nobody will write bad news articles about you. You do regain some lost favor with your customers though. Prolonging the silence will only hurt them further and nobody likes uncertainty!

max_only

Jaraal wrote: »

I see they still haven't fixed this guy yet. When are they going to rewrite all this old dialogue, and hire new voice actors? Surely they took this sort of thing into account when changing the lore? There are many instances besides this one that need editing to make sense.

Khajiit propaganda deflecting to innocent Bosmer.

I’m surprised the Bosmer character thread has got new entries, I wonder if they are new Bosmer players and what they think of the passive. To not know what could have been may be preferable at this point.

wedgebert

Another interesting thing about that photo is that it also shows how people tend to think of Khajiit vs Bosmer.

Bosmer: cannibalistic theives
Khajiit: "Khajiit Has Wares, If You Have Coin"

Ratzkifal

Anyone knows when the next news will arrive? They gotta announce the new thing they planned to remedy Bosmer stealth with at some point, right? I just hope they aren't planning on waiting with that until Q1 of 2020 and without Elsweyr having launched yet to check for hints for any upcoming DLC, we are left in the dark to speculate if Q4 (or already Q3) will bring any new systems for us. I just hope they won't try to push more stealth sets out and call it a day. Which actually makes me think, would you like it if there was a stealth set that specifies "This bonus is twice as effective on Bosmer/Khajiit/Argonian/Dunmer"? Assuming it was actually useful of course.

BlueRaven

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

wedgebert

BlueRaven wrote: »

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Probably just see the stealth detection go from 3m to 2m, because it's obviously ruining the stealth game for other players.

anadandy

wedgebert wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Probably just see the stealth detection go from 3m to 2m, because it's obviously ruining the stealth game for other players.

Oh yeah, I'm waiting for that inevitability.

I think Elsweyr is Update 22. Wheeler started a new sticky about Combat Direction, and it appears next round is going to focus on class active abilities. So unless they make stealth a class ability (and my head would explode then) I'm thinking not Update 22.

Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction

BlueRaven

anadandy wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Probably just see the stealth detection go from 3m to 2m, because it's obviously ruining the stealth game for other players.

Oh yeah, I'm waiting for that inevitability.

I think Elsweyr is Update 22. Wheeler started a new sticky about Combat Direction, and it appears next round is going to focus on class active abilities. So unless they make stealth a class ability (and my head would explode then) I'm thinking not Update 22.

Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction

Thanks! I corrected my earlier post.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.

azjuwelz

Hi--mostly a lurker here because I'm a newbie, currently leveling up my first character, a Bosmer Stamblade. And yes, I created her before all the race passives nonsense, and the change occurred before I was able to try out the old stealth passive. I suppose it was better that way since I didn't really feel the loss, and I learned how far NOT to push things. I agree that the new stealth detection passive is a sad consolation prize in comparison to the old one.

I have one question. Has anyone tried the stealth detection in PVP recently to see if the bug was fixed? I ask because I was playing in Cyrodil a couple days ago, sneaking around near an enemy keep and saw a rival faction player in stealth yet had others pass closer by me without detecting me. So maybe it works now?

If that's the case than at least it has a tiny bit of usefulness.

Personally if we can't have the stealth increase I'd rather have more bow damage.

Razorback174

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.

If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I'm sure we'll be seeing that new tree right after they get done implementing spellcrafting...

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.

From my brief conversation at games day (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459007/wood-elf-bosmer-losing-stealth-passive-an-open-letter/p49) I would say it is 100% legit. As in this is what their current plan is, a free standing stealth tree. That being said they were vague about the exact details of it. Were they vague because they did not want to divulge any details, or that it is because it was a ways off? I don’t know. My guess it’s a ways off.

I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days actually. We just had a dungeon dlc, and now this chapter, but the dragon story is supposed to continue beyond this right? So what is the next dlc after Elsweyr?

I am hoping it might be another dlc in the style of the thieves/assassins guild dlcs, that would be the perfect setting for a stealth tree introduction.

BlueRaven

Razorback174 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.

If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I'm sure we'll be seeing that new tree right after they get done implementing spellcrafting...

If you are able to go, I would really recommend going to one of these meet ups. All of the developers are super nice, and they are really accessible. Don’t expect a long conversation per se, but you can meet them and have a brief one on one.

He did not expect me to ask the question about stealth and it really seemed to me like it was something they were working on.

I am definitely going next year.

Jaraal

What's the point of a stealth passive tree, unless it's Bosmer only? I don't care if they bring back Chameleon from Oblivion and players can go 100% undetected 100% of the time. If it's open to all races, then Bosmer remains tied for worst stealthy race, lore remains corrupted, quest dialogues still don't make sense, and it just reinforces that the current dev team just doesn't care about the Elder Scrolls history, or the players' role playing immersion.

It's all about niche 1v1 combat balance, at the expense of every other aspect of the game. And even in that regard, Bosmer has proven to be at the bottom of the barrel, with the highest resource cost to benefit ratio of all racial bonuses.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

What's the point of a stealth passive tree, unless it's Bosmer only? I don't care if they bring back Chameleon from Oblivion and players can go 100% undetected 100% of the time. If it's open to all races, then Bosmer remains tied for worst stealthy race, lore remains corrupted, quest dialogues still don't make sense, and it just reinforces that the current dev team just doesn't care about the Elder Scrolls history, or the players' role playing immersion.

It's all about niche 1v1 combat balance, at the expense of every other aspect of the game. And even in that regard, Bosmer has proven to be at the bottom of the barrel, with the highest resource cost to benefit ratio of all racial bonuses.

Thats the bit I am having a hard time reconciling. These new passives run in direct conflict with a new tree. To me the answer they gave was entirely earnest. But at the same time they did come out with these racials, so how in the world can they integrate a tree with these racials? I wish I asked that as a followup, but I was so taken aback by how he did not shy away from answering me about stealth, I did not think to ask the question in that moment.

They wanted to make a separate tree, he said, because they wanted to open up stealth gameplay to all of the races. Which is fine with me, I have a Dunmer nightblade who I would love to move away from having to wear stealth gear on. And in Skyrim a bosmer racials gave them a head start on stealth, but it was possible to level up any race so that they could be equally good in stealth at the end.

They did say they were going to monitor the racials and make adjustments if necessary (although to be fair they were talking specifically about the nord racial). Maybe the current stealth racials are place holders? Or maybe it will shake out in a similar way to that stealth tree idea I made a while back? I don't know.

If they were to make a stealth tree what would you all want to see it look like?

Ratzkifal

Razorback174 wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.

If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)

That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?

Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?

Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.

If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I'm sure we'll be seeing that new tree right after they get done implementing spellcrafting...

What kind of Bridge?

azjuwelz wrote: »

Hi--mostly a lurker here because I'm a newbie, currently leveling up my first character, a Bosmer Stamblade. And yes, I created her before all the race passives nonsense, and the change occurred before I was able to try out the old stealth passive. I suppose it was better that way since I didn't really feel the loss, and I learned how far NOT to push things. I agree that the new stealth detection passive is a sad consolation prize in comparison to the old one.

I have one question. Has anyone tried the stealth detection in PVP recently to see if the bug was fixed? I ask because I was playing in Cyrodil a couple days ago, sneaking around near an enemy keep and saw a rival faction player in stealth yet had others pass closer by me without detecting me. So maybe it works now?

If that's the case than at least it has a tiny bit of usefulness.

Personally if we can't have the stealth increase I'd rather have more bow damage.

@azjuwelz Seeing how it's still patch 4.3.9 I seriously doubt any bug has been fixed since I tested that. You still get reduced detection radius from medium armor and the direction the player is facing is also important. Without screenshots it's hard to tell what it was in your case.