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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really though.... editing stuff from the beginning of the thread really doesn't - make much sense. People click a thread title, realize there are many more posts, and click to the end. So I bet not many are going to read the "censored" stuff in full.
Still, just a crap move ZOS. How about you just admit you blew it, restore the original Bosmer stealth passive, and we all move on?
Remember - I'm not invested in the Bosmer stealth passive. But it's apparent to me that there are many who are....
You really don't want to trash your remaining player base. BAD BAD idea.8 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Really though.... editing stuff from the beginning of the thread really doesn't - make much sense. People click a thread title, realize there are many more posts, and click to the end. So I bet not many are going to read the "censored" stuff in full.
Still, just a crap move ZOS. How about you just admit you blew it, restore the original Bosmer stealth passive, and we all move on?
Remember - I'm not invested in the Bosmer stealth passive. But it's apparent to me that there are many who are....
You really don't want to trash your remaining player base. BAD BAD idea.
The only problem I can see with restoring the Bosmer stealth is that all the other races shafted with weird lore-breaking traits are going to want theirs fixed as well.
Argonians will want poison resistance back (so that their quests aren't lying to them)
Altmer will want Spell Recharge to recharge their spells, not their lungs.
Khajiit will want crit chance back instead of crit damage/healing
And so on.
Honestly, I don't see much of an issue argonians and bosmer trading poison and disease so they both still only have one instead of both (and it makes more sense than the current backwards traits).
Altmer is a little harder since they don't want to give Altmer magicka recovery since they're a max magicka race. I'm sure there's a better solution than a paltry amount of stamina that is both not enough to use and more than they usually need. Maybe they could get something like "You trade X stamina for X/3 magicka if you try to cast without enough magicka. This can only proc every 10 seconds".
I don't really know the complaints about the other races other than the fact that people who aren't meta-chasers tend to fall into one of three categories
1: Unhappy with the changes, quite possibly for lore reasons
2: Casual player who didn't really notice
3: Don't care
Sure some people like them, but that's either because they are now stronger and don't care about lore, or they can now play some weird build that wasn't viable before that only 6 other people on the server play (dodge-roll)5 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Really though.... editing stuff from the beginning of the thread really doesn't - make much sense. People click a thread title, realize there are many more posts, and click to the end. So I bet not many are going to read the "censored" stuff in full.
Still, just a crap move ZOS. How about you just admit you blew it, restore the original Bosmer stealth passive, and we all move on?
Remember - I'm not invested in the Bosmer stealth passive. But it's apparent to me that there are many who are....
You really don't want to trash your remaining player base. BAD BAD idea.
The only problem I can see with restoring the Bosmer stealth is that all the other races shafted with weird lore-breaking traits are going to want theirs fixed as well.
Argonians will want poison resistance back (so that their quests aren't lying to them)
Altmer will want Spell Recharge to recharge their spells, not their lungs.
Khajiit will want crit chance back instead of crit damage/healing
And so on.
Honestly, I don't see much of an issue argonians and bosmer trading poison and disease so they both still only have one instead of both (and it makes more sense than the current backwards traits).
Altmer is a little harder since they don't want to give Altmer magicka recovery since they're a max magicka race. I'm sure there's a better solution than a paltry amount of stamina that is both not enough to use and more than they usually need. Maybe they could get something like "You trade X stamina for X/3 magicka if you try to cast without enough magicka. This can only proc every 10 seconds".
I don't really know the complaints about the other races other than the fact that people who aren't meta-chasers tend to fall into one of three categories
1: Unhappy with the changes, quite possibly for lore reasons
2: Casual player who didn't really notice
3: Don't care
Sure some people like them, but that's either because they are now stronger and don't care about lore, or they can now play some weird build that wasn't viable before that only 6 other people on the server play (dodge-roll)
That's the beef. They need to admit they blew the lore, and put everything "lore-wise" back the way it belongs. Now, I'm not invested in any of this personally. I play what I play, I don't min max, my girls are who they are because they TOLD me who they are. So really, none of this background crap is important to me.
Except for the lore. ZOS is... circumventing and obviating the lore of the entire franchise. I've been playing TES since Arena released.
I VERY MUCH resent that the ESO devs are trashing the franchise's lore. I can't even express how much I hate this. Not without getting a permanent ban anyway!14 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Wow Arena? You're the first person I've seen say that. I feel like an old timer because I started with Morrowind. I ain't got nothing on you!4
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow Arena? You're the first person I've seen say that. I feel like an old timer because I started with Morrowind. I ain't got nothing on you!
Yup. I hit the game shop in Vegas the MINUTE Arena was on sale. I have been in love with this franchise ever since. YEARS between releases, yes. But each one only drew me in more.
Oh lordy. The Daggerfall tutorial. MY GODDESS.... I could not manage to get out of it alive. I bet it took me a week to get the combat move down enough to not die. The rats.... then the skeletons.... then there was the imp.... I never played a game prior which was harder just for the TUTORIAL!
That sealed my fate. TES for LIFE!
And that IS the beef for me. The ESO devs are trashing the lore. I have no idea what they think they are doing. But I for one do NOT appreciate it.
Not to mention they can't even bother to talk about why they do what they do.
12 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I finally used one of my race change tokens. Changed by Bosmer into a Nord. So far, actually liking it. I've spent enough time sneaking around on non-Bosmer stealth builds to be used to the normal detect radius, and as a bonus, she's now cute [snip], instead of looking like spray-painted jerky, so that's a perk too. At least until she becomes a vampire again.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 16, 2025 5:30PM1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Well, I finally used one of my race change tokens. Changed by Bosmer into a Nord. So far, actually liking it. I've spent enough time sneaking around on non-Bosmer stealth builds to be used to the normal detect radius, and as a bonus, she's now cute [snip], instead of looking like spray-painted jerky, so that's a perk too. At least until she becomes a vampire again.
Is your podcast downloadable on iTunes?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 16, 2025 5:31PM0 -
Night_Wolf2112✭✭✭✭Just wait... this is the second racial passive redo... if we are patient, in 2-3 years there will be another and maybe we will get our stealth back!3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are some lore breaking issues I can happily accept even though we should wag our fingers at ZOS, like the resistances of Bosmer and Argonians as they are actually both resistant to both and have both been resistant to just one in prior games or Orcs not having more max health than Imperials. That's all things you can ignore, although in the context of some ESO quests, the Argonian one is the most obvious.
What I feel is a more severe issue is the Altmer passive (because it was badly explained and Alteration cannot do that without breaking consistency). If it's Alteration, then Bretons and Dunmer would be able to get the same bonus to stamina by using Alteration magic. Alteration is not exclusive to Altmer. What would be exclusive to them and still support the madness ZOS pushed live would be to say that Altmer are so magical, not casting magic is more exhausting (on their physical bodies) than casting magic and thus restoring stamina on magicka casts. That may not be 100% the same as the spell recharge passive (as it cuts magicka restore on stamina cast on stamina builds) but it fits the same niche and makes more sense in lore.
The Bosmer, well, we've said it a lot already. Give them back the stealth and take away the detection if you must, because it is not engaging, not universal, does not open up new options, is not based in lore and a detriment in any PvP situation that isn't controlled by randomness.
Khajiit are honestly mostly fine because there are more magical catbreeds than the common Khajiit type you encounter and unlike with the existence of magical Nords, an entire breed is not an exception to the rule, but part of the rule.
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.5 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, stealth detect in pve..... is just totally useless (as has been said MANY TIMES including by ZOS....) If you're going to throw a bone.... well, you know.... the bone needs to have some life to it still.Edited by Sylvermynx on March 13, 2019 2:48AM6 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I finally figured out why Bosmer got stealth removed!"The Wood Elf known as Finedrin has been found guilty of the following crimes: Stealing rotten tomatoes and other refuse from stablemaster Semiral's midden-heap, Dumping said refuse on the head of the Altmer commander, Faruin during his visit to the clanmother, And finally, knocking over the cart of Atrius the merchant while attempting to avoid capture. For all of these crimes, this one sentences him to the stocks until such time as he shows proper repentance!"
Never again! Neverforget. Pray for Rawl'kha.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.10 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »Just wait... this is the second racial passive redo... if we are patient, in 2-3 years there will be another and maybe we will get our stealth back!
That does nothing for the people (in this thread alone, not counting the ones elsewhere) who have unsubbed, uninstalled, and/or asked their platform provider for a refund. Or the ones who will do so tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, etc. ZOS has chosen to throw away who knows how much revenue, because somebody decided lore wasn't important. But by golly, they're going to stick to their guns and figure out some way to stuff that baby down the drain with the bath water!
They are banking on time healing all wounds, players moving on, this thread eventually dropping off the page, and so forth. Well, sorry, but every time I log in to the game I see my Bosmer main, who used to be my best thief and who will never cash in his free plastic surgery ticket to become someone he's not. He was The Hero of Kvatch, The Gray Fox, The Dragonborn, The Listener, The Savior of Nirn, and The Hero of Tamriel. Why would he become someone else? He is Bosmer at heart, and I will not betray my Queen by trying to become some false hero for personal gain.
Edited by Jaraal on March 13, 2019 4:19AM11 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463162/eso-live-march-15-10pm-gmt-is-the-loremaster-leamon-tuttle-taking-questions#latest
Don't forget eso live Friday with lore master. Maybe we can get answers...7 -
A_Silverius✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Get used to your new Bosmer, they were changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.
I'll do you one better: Get used to our constant feedback.All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!16 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in the forums, we shall fight in the zone chats and discords, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in reddit, we shall defend our stealth passive, whatever the cost may be. "
-Winston Churchill.
(with some help)Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.13 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A_Silverius wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Get used to your new Bosmer, they were changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.
I'll do you one better: Get used to our constant feedback.
It's not feedback anymore, that's the point. It was feedback one month ago. Now it's just complaining for the sake of complaining. If ZOS would be willing to revert the change they would have done it during the PTS or even before U21 hit consoles. They didn't. They didn't even react to the complains because they seem content with their choice.
Honestly, it's not about if you like the change(s) or not. It's what you have to deal with now. I know this post will be followed by several other angry posts why I am wrong and with some more fervent complaining that gets a ton of agrees and awesomes and whatever but it doesn't change the reality we have now. In your heads it might not be your reality and it might not be acceptable but it is for all the others.Edited by Seraphayel on March 13, 2019 6:09AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
[/quote]Seraphayel wrote: »
Did it ever come to your mind that there are even Bosmer players that like the U21 changes and won't go back to U20 racials? What's with those players?
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what is being discussed. We don’t want the u20 racials either.
Previous passive: Reduces your detection radius in stealth by 3 meters. Increases your damage done while in stealth by 10%.
On live as of Feb 26 2019: Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 meters. Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.
Our suggestion: Reduces your detection radius in stealth by 3 meters. Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.Edited by max_only on March 13, 2019 6:51AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Our suggestion: Reduces your detection radius in stealth by 3 meters. Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.
This would be ideal. Gets rid of the virtually useless Stealth Detection, restores Bosmer lore (and sneaking ability), yet is still a nerf from the previous perma 10% damage from stealth they didn't want us to have any more. And Khajiit still retains the advantage by having a flat 10% crit and heals buff without having to burn stamina like they are requiring Bosmer to do by spamming roll dodge.
5 -
Alucardmike✭✭✭Now we got this "patch" on consoles.
Now every stupid moron can detect me.
It feels like my Bosmer is singing this, while sneaking.
https://youtu.be/UCxgbOBVSfM
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.6 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Ok just got this patch on console and my nightblade wood elf who has every single passive for stealth and wearing nme and nt and I am failing heist now, is this new detect passive a reverse passive that allows for NPCs to detect me first getting detected from a metres away
I was hoping it wouldn’t be that bad knowing I have all the passives that make you invisible and the gear but this11 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Console just got this patch and those players didn't have access to PTS - so their experience with the changes is fresh. They deserve to be heard just as much as anyone.
And better to keep feedback in one place rather than eleventy hundred threads *coughsiegechangescough*12 -
BlueViolet✭✭✭✭✭I did heists and sacraments the other day despite my not wanting to play my main anymore because of this, just to see how it went, and my Bosmer assassin has never in her pixelated life been spotted as easily as she was while doing them. It was so disappointing and disheartening.
I'm not going to just "move on" or "get used to my new Bosmer" , I'm going to keep complaining until something is done about it. And if nothing is done about it, I'll keep complaining until I get tired of it. And for those that complain about complainers, you may feel free to not open the thread, and you may also feel free to "move on" with your forum perusal past this thread.
EU / NA / PC14 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Rage, rage against the nerfing of the stealth."
- Dylan Thomas (unpublished, possibly apocryphal, early draft)Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.5 -
Night_Wolf2112✭✭✭✭Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »Just wait... this is the second racial passive redo... if we are patient, in 2-3 years there will be another and maybe we will get our stealth back!
That does nothing for the people (in this thread alone, not counting the ones elsewhere) who have unsubbed, uninstalled, and/or asked their platform provider for a refund. Or the ones who will do so tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, etc. ZOS has chosen to throw away who knows how much revenue, because somebody decided lore wasn't important. But by golly, they're going to stick to their guns and figure out some way to stuff that baby down the drain with the bath water!
They are banking on time healing all wounds, players moving on, this thread eventually dropping off the page, and so forth. Well, sorry, but every time I log in to the game I see my Bosmer main, who used to be my best thief and who will never cash in his free plastic surgery ticket to become someone he's not. He was The Hero of Kvatch, The Gray Fox, The Dragonborn, The Listener, The Savior of Nirn, and The Hero of Tamriel. Why would he become someone else? He is Bosmer at heart, and I will not betray my Queen by trying to become some false hero for personal gain.
Sorry, this was me being somewhat sarcastic, that doesn't come across online! I have been in this thread voicing my disapproval of stealth removal. I was just pointing out how slow ZoS will be in actually correcting this colossal phk'up that was poorly thought out and implemented.9 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭Ok just got this patch on console and my nightblade wood elf who has every single passive for stealth and wearing nme and nt and I am failing heist now, is this new detect passive a reverse passive that allows for NPCs to detect me first getting detected from a metres away
I was hoping it wouldn’t be that bad knowing I have all the passives that make you invisible and the gear but this
I had none of the stealth sets and only legerdemain and wood elf skills maxed up (still working on thief and assassin skills). Because I went through the zone that drops NM before we learnt about the changes I deconned all the pieces I got from it. My only saving grace is that I began getting pieces of NT after the patch notes were out, so I kept them.
Even though there was still a lot of room for improvement on my main, I felt the changes. I hadn't done a sacrament or heist before it, but I don't believe those are the best places to test the changes. I felt it on my day to day activity in the game. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for those of you who spent years not only evolving your characters, but learning how to be good at it.
Stealing and murdering are counter-intuitive to the rest of the game play - in most circumstances I see players charging and being told that speed is of paramount importance. But when the play involves stealth we need to contain the urge to hit that button fast, we need to approach with caution and wait until the perfect moment arrives.
9 -
Truthsnark✭✭✭✭Sorry all you console players, we tried
The voices of the Bosmer will be heard! We want our stealth back! We are tiny, morally ambiguous in our eating habits, and STUBBORN.
I support simply swapping the stealth detection back to stealth radius reduction and leaving everything else as is. Even though privately I think putting an offensive bonus on a defensive skill is completely wackadoodle.14 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭Truthsnark wrote: »Sorry all you console players, we tried The voices of the Bosmer will be heard! We want our stealth back! We are tiny, morally ambiguous in our eating habits, and STUBBORN.
I support simply swapping the stealth detection back to stealth radius reduction and leaving everything else as is. Even though privately I think putting an offensive bonus on a defensive skill is completely wackadoodle.
Me too. We have a saying in my country for when people begin to get a little obnoxious about someone's short height - the best perfumes come in small bottles, and so do the worse poisons.
Works well for Bosmers IMO. 10 -
Ashryn✭✭✭✭✭The 'Brassy Assassin' personality has been perfect for my Wood Elf... I now have the 'pissed off' look that I need!10 -
Aela_Dragonrider✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in the forums, we shall fight in the zone chats and discords, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in reddit, we shall defend our stealth passive, whatever the cost may be. "
-Winston Churchill.
(with some help)
Can we make that our slogan?
Anyway, just came around to pitch in my two septims with my own experiences since the change with my secondary main, a little Bosmer named Lara. Lara does a lot of thieving every session, primarily strongboxes and containers. While this is still highly lucrative and successful, even fun, it is not what it once was.
Hardly a day goes by when she doesn't get caught at least once (today it was 4-5 times). And it is almost always by an npc that is just far enough away that if she had had that 3m reduction to detection radius, she would have gotten clean away. True she has passives that increase the speed at which the bounties go away, but even a small bounty can massively complicate a thieving run as you need to be even more aware of guards and such.
She has to sit around and analyze npc schedules a lot more, waiting for the just the right time to make her move. And if she is just a little off...If one npc turns at the wrong moment...BOUNTY!
Homes are now much harder to loot as well; and some are, in my opinion, nearly impossible due to how the npcs inside move around.
Delves and quests aren't too much harder to sneak through, but are more tense as I'm always having to remain highly attentive to where enemies are and debating if Lara can just sneak by X or if she needs Cloak to do so, etc...
I could go on but in summary, Bosmer Stealth may not be dead but it is harder and a little less fun. Overland stuff didn't change much but thieving has. I haven't even tried Heists or Sacraments and frankly have little urge to do so. Its not enough to make me quit or even swear of ESO+, but it is frustrating and i can totally understand why some people are doing just that.
10 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Aela_Dragonrider wrote: »I could go on but in summary, Bosmer Stealth may not be dead but it is harder and a little less fun. Overland stuff didn't change much but thieving has. I haven't even tried Heists or Sacraments and frankly have little urge to do so. Its not enough to make me quit or even swear of ESO+, but it is frustrating and i can totally understand why some people are doing just that.
No, Bosmer stealth is dead. There is only Khajiit stealth (super stealthy like Bosmer used to be), Imperial stealth (lowered stealth cost), and everyone else. You can still stealth, but there's no more Bosmer flavor to it.
Heists actually aren't that much worse, but only because the lantern guys are immune to stealth anyways. They suck more now (and they sucked before since they valued speed not stealth), but ironically they're not much changed.
8
This discussion has been closed.