Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

Eiron77 · March 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

You know what would be nice?

If both Bosmer and Khajiit could choose whether they wanted increased stealth, or increased stealth detection.

I could get onboard with this and I personally think it would be a great option. But I don't think ZOS wants to create a morph like effect for racials. Racial morphs could be really cool and open the doors for more roles with each race, but would become a lot more work to balance.

Kater_Murr · March 2019

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

Looks like I won't even bother logging at all, but I respect your struggle

P.S. Come to think of it, this upcoming event with its focus on sneaking activities is just a kick in the face for every player that made bosmer characters for this exact purpose.

anadandy · March 2019

Kater_Murr wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

Looks like I won't even bother logging at all, but I respect your struggle

P.S. Come to think of it, this upcoming event with its focus on sneaking activities is just a kick in the face for every player that made bosmer characters for this exact purpose.

Hey - maybe that's when they're going to reveal the great new stealth plan!

Man, I crack myself up.

Torbschka · March 2019

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

Torbschka wrote: »

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

@Girl_Number8 @Torbschka But is it the detection passive that makes it so good in PvP? I can't speak for all of us, but I think most people in here would be fine if the dodgeroll thing was kept as it is but the detection was reverted to being-detected radius reduction. I've done testing on this and 3meters sounds like much, because it is IRL, but it's nothing in ESO, especially when running around. You'll also never spot cloaked enemies with this just because the radius is impossibly small (half that of Mage Light, that's 75% less reveal area and you still can't target them.)

Hey, I wouldnt mind that either, since I ve never used bosmer for stealth at all. I do feel u lore/pve/rp guys though!

KMarble · March 2019

Gibgarde wrote: »

My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".

Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.

Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.

Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.

I've been keeping an eye on this issue ever since the PTS for Warthstone was made available. IF they were planning on adding more stealth by means other than a racial skill line, they were disabused of the idea by the people who tested the 5m stealth on Khajiit (long story short, Khajiit's stealth was reduced to 3m on the second week because players were able to crouch in front of a guard, virtually stepping on their toes, and go undetected).

Giving Bosmers their stealth back by creating a new skill line which would be available to all races would bring the problem back - Khajiits who used skill points on this hypothetical skill would be undetectable.

I'm not a creative person, so it's possible that the devs will come up with some very creative way to deal with the stealth that was taken from the Bosmers in a way that isn't game-breaking. What I am good at is logic, and logic tells me that with the evidence and mechanics we have right now, a stealth skill line isn't a solution.

BlueRaven · March 2019

KMarble wrote: »

Gibgarde wrote: »

My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".

Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.

Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.

Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.

I've been keeping an eye on this issue ever since the PTS for Warthstone was made available. IF they were planning on adding more stealth by means other than a racial skill line, they were disabused of the idea by the people who tested the 5m stealth on Khajiit (long story short, Khajiit's stealth was reduced to 3m on the second week because players were able to crouch in front of a guard, virtually stepping on their toes, and go undetected).

Giving Bosmers their stealth back by creating a new skill line which would be available to all races would bring the problem back - Khajiits who used skill points on this hypothetical skill would be undetectable.

I'm not a creative person, so it's possible that the devs will come up with some very creative way to deal with the stealth that was taken from the Bosmers in a way that isn't game-breaking. What I am good at is logic, and logic tells me that with the evidence and mechanics we have right now, a stealth skill line isn't a solution.

This is true and whole stumbling block of any future plans. How are they going to integrate any stealth change with the current racials, WITHOUT redoing the racials. It's a mystery.

Tasear · March 2019

I

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

No thanks, I'll take back my stealth thank you very much. A Bosmer without stealth is a Bosmer doom to be a Guard with an arrow in its knee.

Okay...

Until then, I guess...happy misery?

Until then, we give feedback until its fixed that's what.

Well then I hope you all have a very long breath to do this for months or even years. ZOS is very adamant when it comes about changes they settled with and Bosmer losing their Stealth racial seems like one. If you're clever you expect exactly nothing to happen in that regard (based on 5 years experience with ZOS).

🤔 We had racials change not even 2 years before. We have changes every quarter to different things as it's needed. So who knows how passionate people are.

Razorback174 · March 2019

Perfect timing for gutting Bosmer stealth with the thieves guild and dark brotherhood events.

"No stealth bonus? Can't do those heists as easily anymore with what used to be a thief character? That's ok! You can always just buy event tickets straight from the crown store now!"

Disgusting...

Alaya · March 2019

You can't even buy the tickets yet: those come at the end of the month.

I miss my stealthy bosmer, the 3m detection bonus simply isn't worth anything, not even in PvP where you can use much better skills to find players. By the time you see the players, they're already on top of you, so what's the point?

The dodge roll is iffy. I've been utilizing it as I do dungeons and quests in DLC, but it's not an easy thing to use in a lot of places honestly.

Everything else they've given us is okay, we can live with it, but I really wish they'd revert their change to stealth instead of giving us another useless passive.

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

BlueRaven · March 2019

Alaya wrote: »

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

This made me laugh. Thank you!

Yeah, I guess bosmers learned to mitigate their fall damage from all the times they rolled off their tree branches. After all if you leave in the trees there is always plenty of space to roll around.

alanmatillab16_ESO · March 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

Also, haven't seen one other Bosmer, today - not one.

.

Looks like their stealth is working then...

A_Silverius · March 2019

More Bosmers are gonna start wishing they got their stealth back come the TG/DB event.

BlueRaven · March 2019

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

anadandy · March 2019

Ugh, that stinks.

I ran my Bosmer through VVardenfall to finish up the "Ancestral Tomb Hunter" achievement (I was a librarian in a former life, so having that title amuses me). I was able to do it but I have to say, it was much more irritating because every stupid nix hound and other trash saw me and I had to waste time killing them.

Yeah, first Tamriel problems but it just made me more annoyed about the whole thing than ever.

A_Silverius · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

I've got bad news for you, Captain Marvel reviews aren't that great

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154664/ If the movie is truly mediocre, you might end up thinking about Bosmer stealth and get depressed again. Not to mention that the Skrulls are also pointy eared and have natural stealth abilities just like the Bosmeri. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Skrull

BlueRaven · March 2019

A_Silverius wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

I've got bad news for you, Captain Marvel reviews aren't that great https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154664/ If the movie is truly mediocre, you might end up thinking about Bosmer stealth and get depressed again. Not to mention that the Skrulls are also pointy eared and have natural stealth abilities just like the Bosmeri. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Skrull

I like Marvel movies, and I am going with friends who don't know anything about Elves beyond Tolkien or Warhammer.
I think a lot of the bad press is just people upset about a female lead (which does not bother me at all).

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

A_Silverius · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Warhammer.

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

Speaking of warhammer, I just started a character on the Warhammer Online: Return of Reckoning private server and I'm having a blast

Its still in the alpha phase so a handful of quests are quite buggy but its f2p, non-p2w, decent population and the world pvp is probably the best that ever existed in the mmo genre despite it being a private server. Maybe try that until ZOS gives back our stealth?

BlueRaven · March 2019

@A_Silverius Oh! I was talking about Warhammer the table top war game not a video game. lol

(We also fool around with the Total War version as well though.)

Hand_Bacon · March 2019

@A_Silverius

Warhammer was such a missed opportunity and what a great IP, too bad they let Blizzard have it to start the Warcraft IP instead of running with it themselves. I played the IP's miniature game back in the 80's and 90's. I still paint for commissions when I'm bored.

A big group of us from Dark Age of Camelot and WoW were ready to go with Warhammer...but then they screwed the endgame so badly...

Arato · March 2019

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

THE Question: Wouldn't it be a good thing to encourage the use of "band-aids" to help people handicapped by this change, either until its changed again or at least to continue to enjoy that part of the game?

Thanks for the suggestion, but this "band-aid" solution means nothing if you were already stacking reduced stealth radius sets with the racial passive. Bosmers till screwed

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.

Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.

Jaraal · March 2019

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.

Yes, it's not like you can reach the stealth cap with racial bonus only. All my thieves (both Bosmer and Khajiit) had to purchase the medium armor stealth passive, the racial passive, and wear one armor set (3 pc bonus from Night Terror) to reach the detection cap. With the new nerf, my Bosmer has to give up his second armor set (Remove sneak speed penalty bonus from Night's Silence set) and wear a 5 pc set of Night Mother's Embrace. So no, I'm not going to steal at half speed just because somebody at ZOS decided Bosmer lore was not important. My Bosmer main is permanently retired from the Thieves Guild active roster, and spends his days cleaning toilets and mopping floors in the Thieves Den in Hew's Bane.

Ratzkifal · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

Same. Since I already got 10 tickets, I was thinking of skipping this event. Daily log in rewards won't keep me playing either as my tank has to burn through 700 crown tri-stat potions first and that won't happen when I am not playing anyway. I dropped Elder Scrolls Legends because I really disliked the new theme, but at least it's not lore breaking - just breaking the feeling of the game. I might return to that and Skyrim or perhaps buy Anno 1800 once it releases and play that. I'll stay for now and maybe flesh out our comprehensive list of arguments further. The lore part is not really done yet and I haven't even added the Thousand Benefits of Hiding source in it I think.

All that because ZOS insisted on paying no attention to their community!

Edit: Btw, I got no answer on my support ticket. That's what I get for putting it under "feedback".

Hand_Bacon · March 2019

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.

Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.

lol Insulting? Slap somebody? Put the Bosmer down and walk away slowly...

Its not only a suggestion, its the reality now until further notice so "gettin' yer dander up" over it is kinda silly.

EDIT: Although I like your analogy, if I see somebody sit down halfway up a stuck escalator, pouting or fretting that they won't reach the top...I'll let them know they can walk up the rest of the way. Maybe their principle is that since its now IMPOSSIBLE to make it to the top, management should come carry them.

BlueRaven · March 2019

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.

I was one of those people.

I played my Bosmer as a hero, and while I started the theives guild and assassins guild quests on her, I ended up doing the full quest chains on other characters.

I remember killing that random person on the Gold Coast with her and immediately regretting it (and having my guild mates laughing at my long sigh in discord).

Now for my assassin and my thief I did make special gear for them, but my Bosmer relied on her natural stealthiness.

Why?

A ) I am not a fan of carrying multiple sets.

B ) The natural stealth of bosmers was perfect for me. It gave me the extra defense for my rare forays into Cyrodiil. And it let me explore delves and public dungeons, while having the power to burn things down if I needed it. (She is a bit of a glass cannon.)

I am not sure what I am going to do now. She is definitely my main, but the things I loved to do with her in solo play has been seriously crippled.

I don’t know, I am highly disappointed.

Cundu_Ertur · March 2019

I used Night Silence for moving in stealth, since vampire is a change in form and so against the pact; and played around with other craftable sets to find something that worked with it. I didn't want to grind for anything. So I just had the 3m Bosmer stealth bonus.

Now I'm forced to grind for sets to make up for losing what Bosmer should always have. Currently running Night Silence+NME weapons and jewels; Alessia bulwark head and shoulder, on the off chance I ever get a monster set; thinking about shacklebreaker instead. I'll eventually have Hunding's+Spriggan's weapons and jewels for backup; just finished grinding the spriggans (though I may keep looking for a blue or purple ring to replace the green one I have), need to make the Hunding's at some point once my tempers recover.

I have yet to have had any situation where the useless new garbage passive would have been useful, so those 3 skill points still sit, unused.

Eiron77 · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

BlueRaven · March 2019

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Cundu_Ertur · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

In my not-all-all-humble opinion it should be a completely new passive: Stealthy F'n Archer: 1/2/3m hiding bonus, +32/64/128 damage with bows, 2/3/4% reduced cost for bow abilities.

That's half the redguard bonus (which is for all weapons) and half the Orc/Dunmer weapon bonus (for all weapons), but only for bows. Right now Bosmer don't have ANY ability that the lore says they should have. Bosmer are supposed to be the best archers, and that's not the case -- Orcs, Dunmer, and even Redguards are better. Bosmer are supposed to be stealthy and that's not the case. Honestly, this game no longer has any Bosmer in it at all.

Eiron77 · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Right. And in your guild where you're not attempting top tier content and racial choice shouldn't matter, you were still hounded a bit about by being a Bosmer for stamina DPS. My main concern is this becoming a trend. Hopefully it doesn't, because that sucks for those players in those situations. The masses can get mean at times about race/class reputation parsing low, even if it is not by much.

Hunter's Eye had so much potential to be something great, without it being a DPS trait. And because it's not, you're right. Bosmers are not getting any boost from 1 of 3 traits (with the exception of Dark Elf). I think they really need something that empowers their skill with bow and/or ranged attacks. Right now we have Imperials sneaking better than Bosmers, and Redguards essentially have better skill with bows because reduced cost of weapon attacks--which includes bows.

So here's what I think would've been the best tweaks to the current patch:

- Altmers keep their restoration to Magicka after using a class ability (or at the very least restore both Mag/Stam, maybe a reduced amount for balance)
- Nords gain Ultimate from dealing damage, instead of taking damage (to not pigeon-hole them completely into a tank only race)
- Khajits keep their bonus to Crit chance (instead of damage to crits)
- Bosmers Hunter's Eye: Reduced detection radius while in stealth, damage/healing to crits increased, roll dodge increases movement speed temporarily. (Maybe for balancing limit the crit bonus to ranged wpn/spl attacks only. Heck, you could even keep the stealth detection bonus + sneak bonus in this case, because the extra crit damage wouldnt happen at 3m).

It would've kept these races close to the originals, stayed in line with the first patch release that more players were happy with, not pigeon-holed Bosmers' into a PvP race, and stayed within ZOS' goals for the racial rebalancing.

BlueRaven · March 2019

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Right. And in your guild where you're not attempting top tier content and racial choice shouldn't matter, you were still hounded a bit about by being a Bosmer for stamina DPS. My main concern is this becoming a trend. Hopefully it doesn't, because that sucks for those players in those situations. The masses can get mean at times about race/class reputation parsing low, even if it is not by much.

Hunter's Eye had so much potential to be something great, without it being a DPS trait. And because it's not, you're right. Bosmers are not getting any boost from 1 of 3 traits (with the exception of Dark Elf). I think they really need something that empowers their skill with bow and/or ranged attacks. Right now we have Imperials sneaking better than Bosmers, and Redguards essentially have better skill with bows because reduced cost of weapon attacks--which includes bows.

So here's what I think would've been the best tweaks to the current patch:

- Altmers keep their restoration to Magicka after using a class ability (or at the very least restore both Mag/Stam, maybe a reduced amount for balance)
- Nords gain Ultimate from dealing damage, instead of taking damage (to not pigeon-hole them completely into a tank only race)
- Khajits keep their bonus to Crit chance (instead of damage to crits)
- Bosmers Hunter's Eye: Reduced detection radius while in stealth, damage/healing to crits increased, roll dodge increases movement speed temporarily. (Maybe for balancing limit the crit bonus to ranged wpn/spl attacks only. Heck, you could even keep the stealth detection bonus + sneak bonus in this case, because the extra crit damage wouldnt happen at 3m).

It would've kept these races close to the originals, stayed in line with the first patch release that more players were happy with, not pigeon-holed Bosmers' into a PvP race, and stayed within ZOS' goals for the racial rebalancing.

Hounded is not quite the term I would use, it was more like a group of people offering advice even though I was not asking for it.

Have you ever met older relatives who start giving you advice about your job or money, then start talking to each other about your situation as if you were not sitting right there? It was more like that.

Friendly advice that is not asked for.

I am hoping all this will pass by Saturday,
I had asked the trial leader tonight if my staying a Bosmer would be an issue and they said of course not.

However, I think the meta that everyone seems to be adopting is that bosmers are on the lower end of the dps scale.

But will it become like WoW where they would boot people from a dungeon because they were an arms warrior or something like that? No, probably not.