You know what would be nice?
If both Bosmer and Khajiit could choose whether they wanted increased stealth, or increased stealth detection.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).
Kater_Murr wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).
Looks like I won't even bother logging at all, but I respect your struggle
P.S. Come to think of it, this upcoming event with its focus on sneaking activities is just a kick in the face for every player that made bosmer characters for this exact purpose.
Girl_Number8 wrote: »This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.
@Girl_Number8 @Torbschka But is it the detection passive that makes it so good in PvP? I can't speak for all of us, but I think most people in here would be fine if the dodgeroll thing was kept as it is but the detection was reverted to being-detected radius reduction. I've done testing on this and 3meters sounds like much, because it is IRL, but it's nothing in ESO, especially when running around. You'll also never spot cloaked enemies with this just because the radius is impossibly small (half that of Mage Light, that's 75% less reveal area and you still can't target them.)
My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".
Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.
Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.
Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.
My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".
Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.
Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.
Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.
I've been keeping an eye on this issue ever since the PTS for Warthstone was made available. IF they were planning on adding more stealth by means other than a racial skill line, they were disabused of the idea by the people who tested the 5m stealth on Khajiit (long story short, Khajiit's stealth was reduced to 3m on the second week because players were able to crouch in front of a guard, virtually stepping on their toes, and go undetected).
Giving Bosmers their stealth back by creating a new skill line which would be available to all races would bring the problem back - Khajiits who used skill points on this hypothetical skill would be undetectable.
I'm not a creative person, so it's possible that the devs will come up with some very creative way to deal with the stealth that was taken from the Bosmers in a way that isn't game-breaking. What I am good at is logic, and logic tells me that with the evidence and mechanics we have right now, a stealth skill line isn't a solution.
Seraphayel wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »Hand_Bacon wrote: »A_Silverius wrote: »No thanks, I'll take back my stealth thank you very much. A Bosmer without stealth is a Bosmer doom to be a Guard with an arrow in its knee.
Okay...
Until then, I guess...happy misery?
Until then, we give feedback until its fixed that's what.
Well then I hope you all have a very long breath to do this for months or even years. ZOS is very adamant when it comes about changes they settled with and Bosmer losing their Stealth racial seems like one. If you're clever you expect exactly nothing to happen in that regard (based on 5 years experience with ZOS).
I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.
Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
A_Silverius wrote: »Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
I've got bad news for you, Captain Marvel reviews aren't that greathttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154664/ If the movie is truly mediocre, you might end up thinking about Bosmer stealth and get depressed again. Not to mention that the Skrulls are also pointy eared and have natural stealth abilities just like the Bosmeri. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Skrull
Warhammer.
To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.
A_Silverius wrote: »Hand_Bacon wrote: »THE Question: Wouldn't it be a good thing to encourage the use of "band-aids" to help people handicapped by this change, either until its changed again or at least to continue to enjoy that part of the game?
Thanks for the suggestion, but this "band-aid" solution means nothing if you were already stacking reduced stealth radius sets with the racial passive. Bosmers till screwed
Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.
To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.
Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.
Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.
Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.
So I had a depressing trial run last night.
(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.
One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.
We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)
Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.
I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”
And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.
So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.
It was a long night.
Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.
Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
So I had a depressing trial run last night.
(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.
One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.
We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)
Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.
I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”
And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.
So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.
It was a long night.
Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.
Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?
Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.
Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).
I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.
So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.
So I had a depressing trial run last night.
(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.
One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.
We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)
Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.
I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”
And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.
So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.
It was a long night.
Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.
Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?
Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.
Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).
To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.
Here is an example;https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98
(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.
For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.
I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.
So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.
So I had a depressing trial run last night.
(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.
One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.
We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)
Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.
I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”
And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.
So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.
It was a long night.
Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.
Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.
Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?
Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.
Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).
To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.
Here is an example;https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98
(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.
For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.
I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.
So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.
Right. And in your guild where you're not attempting top tier content and racial choice shouldn't matter, you were still hounded a bit about by being a Bosmer for stamina DPS. My main concern is this becoming a trend. Hopefully it doesn't, because that sucks for those players in those situations. The masses can get mean at times about race/class reputation parsing low, even if it is not by much.
Hunter's Eye had so much potential to be something great, without it being a DPS trait. And because it's not, you're right. Bosmers are not getting any boost from 1 of 3 traits (with the exception of Dark Elf). I think they really need something that empowers their skill with bow and/or ranged attacks. Right now we have Imperials sneaking better than Bosmers, and Redguards essentially have better skill with bows because reduced cost of weapon attacks--which includes bows.
So here's what I think would've been the best tweaks to the current patch:
- Altmers keep their restoration to Magicka after using a class ability (or at the very least restore both Mag/Stam, maybe a reduced amount for balance)
- Nords gain Ultimate from dealing damage, instead of taking damage (to not pigeon-hole them completely into a tank only race)
- Khajits keep their bonus to Crit chance (instead of damage to crits)
- Bosmers Hunter's Eye: Reduced detection radius while in stealth, damage/healing to crits increased, roll dodge increases movement speed temporarily. (Maybe for balancing limit the crit bonus to ranged wpn/spl attacks only. Heck, you could even keep the stealth detection bonus + sneak bonus in this case, because the extra crit damage wouldnt happen at 3m).
It would've kept these races close to the originals, stayed in line with the first patch release that more players were happy with, not pigeon-holed Bosmers' into a PvP race, and stayed within ZOS' goals for the racial rebalancing.