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OUR ESO HOUSES ARE BEING VANDALIZED....Can someone PLEASE help us?

  • Träumer
    Träumer
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    I thought we were talking about the ignore list ingame, and not an actual ban. Because you don't need a logbook for ZOS to ban players.
  • ghastley
    ghastley
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    There may be a worse problem here. The vandal may have hacked the log-in credentials of the owner, so any logs etc. would just show their own id. And of course the fake owner can change the permissions (although I don't see why they'd bother).

    So logs would need to record IP and/or MAC address as well as player, so that ZOS can distinguish real from fake. They'd also help associate the fake id with a real one that uses the same address. Because of things like PPOE and DHCP, IP addresses can get re-assigned, but the more information that's available, the more chance a pattern will identify the culprits.
  • AyeshaBelladonna
    AyeshaBelladonna
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    Can’t get all the comments to load so apologies if this has been covered already...

    There seems to be an oversight to the permission’s system and even some of the helpdesk folks don’t seem to be aware of it.
    If you give someone access to decorator. Then you set your house to NO ACCESS that means didly squat to that person. Same for guild lists and individual visitors on your list.
    NO ACCESS only stops folks NOT on one of those two lists from visiting your house. Especially with the addon on PC/Mac called Port To Friends House. Your home doesn’t even have to be set to primary for that. (Not knocking the addon, its very handy and solves the issue of why can I have thirt houses and my friends can only easily visit one)
    So if you want to truly cut off access to a house you must remove guilds from the visitor list, clear individual people from the list. And THEN set it NO ACCESS. Then it is truely not accessible.

    So here is the problem that happens and tbh it’s always proven to be the case anytime I’ve ever heard of this issue firsthand:

    Once upon a time a friend or aquaintence was over and you set them to decorator to help you with something. It was one of your first houses say. You stopped hanging with that person for whatever reason and forgot all about them having access that one time. You get busy , you forget to turn that off. Ok... now fast forward to a year later, several houses later... and you have been using the setting “load settings from XXX” to make your life easier and you have been reloading those original lists of folks in, not paying attn to it much. All of a sudden your house gets messed with. Guess what? Even though you set it NO ACCESS and you havnt let anyone move stuff since that one guy way back at start.... you have been loading their permissions in to every home since. They decided to be a jerk and boom, there you go. Mysterious “bug” solved. (Yes, ok, folks about to copy/paste and argue. Let’s just say for arguments sake you truely have a bug in your permissions even though the scenario I describe here is far more likely. Let’s move on now to the potential solutions)

    Now what does this mean for recommendations to ZOS to help prevent it? As I see it we have a few choices that may or may not help or be feasible.
    1. Make the “global” setting more clearly labeled and rename the separate lists to EXEMPTION lists so folks understand these mean the Global Setting for the home is ignored. ( and give it a tool tip that pops up EVERY time you mouse over them so folks can’t forget)
    2. Get rid of Decorator as an option for Global Settings so it cannot be clicked accidentally.
    3. Institute a Visitor Log Book so you can see who has been in your home while you were gone.
    4. Get rid of “Load Permissions” entirely. If you have to set the permissions by hand for every house then chances are you are not going to accidentally give an old buddy decorating access to all your houses. They will only be able to screw with one. (And if you have to regularly go through your lists like that then maybe they won’t slip through the cracks)
    5. Make a separate list that names and guilds go on when they have decorator access so you can clearly see, at all times, who can mess with your stuff any time you are in the permissions screen for that house.

    Is it possible this is a true bug? Anything is possible. Is it likely? Honestly no. It would be far more widespread if that were the case I think. As I mentioned, any time I’ve ever actually spoken to someone firsthand with this issue, once they calmed down and went over every last thing with a fine tooth comb, it was found that someone had indeed slipped through the cracks. Either way, these are some changes I think might help with the issue.
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  • WolfStar07
    WolfStar07
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    I don't think that's an oversight. Those individual and guild lists do say they are separate from the global access list. It's people not actually reading what they're doing that causes confusion on their end. THAT is the most common issue, from housing permissions to guild info (how many of you have seen guild members ask a question which is clearly answered on the guild page or roster?).

    Also, you wrote a book describing how people are at fault for screwing themselves over when what has been described by everyone else as a bug.
  • rebrur2
    rebrur2
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    I have had mine switch numerous times, luckily it is usually just a minor inconvenience. For some reason, mine switches to no access sporadically, which sucks because it is my guildhall.
  • Wildberryjack
    Wildberryjack
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    Hey guys, just following back up to let you know this hasn't dropped off our radar and we're still investigating.

    Can you also keep looking at what causes interactables in the house to stop being interactable unless we move them or at least click on them to move them? It's still happening sporadically to the homeowner and visitors.
    The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso
  • mrpaxman
    mrpaxman
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    I do not know if the bug i am referring to has been fixed or not but it is some what sounding like it is the same bug. In the following 6 months after housing released. I would get people arrive at my house any time they chose to travel to me via any method. My permissions were set to on for default visitor access. Then in the guild ban list i would have some houses set to have all of my guilds not get access. In other homes i had the same permissions set and no one could enter. In others i would constantly get visitors to the house when they should not have been able to with it displaying the same permissions. To nail down the issue took a while...months. Even just noticing/causing the issue was some weeks or months. I first noticed it would happen after i touched the permissions. There is or was something very off with selecting all houses option for permissions (i think at another house before i noticed the issue). Then making changes to that individual house permissions. I was able to finally fix/revert this issue by playing with permissions at another house and selecting all homes then travelling between the 2nd house and setting permissions in the right order. It also involved a few travels between each of the 2 houses. Using the set all houses option when selecting permissions at the right house. And not selecting the all houses option at the other. or vice versa. I never had any issue until i started using these options months after housing started. I wish i could remember the exact order. Visually i was seeing permissions set for that exact house. Yet at some homes it was clearly not the case getting many visitors. After finally fixing the issue a couple times at different specific houses i changed permissions at. I will never use the apply to all houses option again. I also wont use the option to copy another houses permissions in case it is a home i have not noticed gets access and displays it should not get access from anyone. Ill only set homes individually since i got it sorted. I now use no default visitor access and set which guilds are allowed. That is suitable for me as i do not need to use more then the 25 allowed names we can enter. And that way i do not have issues of ban lists always over riding allowed lists. Making sense of why people that shared 2 guilds i was in were not allowed to homes that the rest of the allowed guild could enter. Finding out those 2 things was just a small part in figuring out the bug

    I am fairly sure i can replicate having specific permissions set whilst displaying permissions for that house differently if that bug was not fixed.Ii have gone through it at 2 houses in the past where I could get players to enter that house while it displays default visitor access on, and with all guilds on the ban list and people only in guild rosters and not in group or friends list can enter. I have still never seen patch notes on a fix for permissions. For many months i was not able to have an open Primary house and a private house. I personally would not like to replicate this as i know my permissions are now working as displayed and would hate to mess it up again. Essential housing tools shows me when someone tries and fails to port to a private house while i am there. No one at all has been able to access my non guild hall houses ever since (as intended). The set all houses option seems to be the over riding permissions while individual house permissions are some times able to display the changes but not perform correctly. I also remember the order of setting permissions and options to permissions had to be in a specific/reverse order or there about's and must be done using 2 houses as well.
    Victory or Valhalla!
    PC NA
  • mrpaxman
    mrpaxman
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    Hey guys, just following back up to let you know this hasn't dropped off our radar and we're still investigating.

    Can you also keep looking at what causes interactables in the house to stop being interactable unless we move them or at least click on them to move them? It's still happening sporadically to the homeowner and visitors.

    This post is the most comprehensive regarding that bug
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422408/crafting-station-become-unusable-after-exiting-the-house
    Victory or Valhalla!
    PC NA
  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    It is tricky to get visitor permissions set right. I think the most disturbing thing in the OP though is the possibility of someone OTHER than a person you had given decorator permissions to being able to move your furnishings. THAT is the bug I hope gets cleared up pronto.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • mrpaxman
    mrpaxman
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    I agree with the importance of that terrible bug happening. I am not sure whether it is all 1 bug and never been fixed or 2 separate bugs. Also if it is 2 separate bugs. I do not know if the one i experienced was ever fixed (ZoS will know). I should have not had visitors when it displays no one should be able to enter. I never tested or found out if other players could decorate. During the time i had the bug present i never had any decorator permissions set to test that specific permission. The fact that the friends tried to help re-arrange the furnishings shows that decorator permissions have been set at least once before. I don't know if that is even required or even related to cause this bug but is very close to what triggers the bug i can get. I have no idea if this is related to the bug i experienced. I do believe i can get a house to show no decorator and/or visitor permissions and be able to have people access the housing editor, if the bug was never fixed. I can get it to show no visitor access and have visitors arrive. I do believe i can get it to show the the same for a decorator permission to. Not only can i get permissions to show allowed for guilds and them able to enter. I can also get it to show no bans are in place at all and people can not enter. An issue i did not have was the permissions visually changing to something different to what i would ever set them to. Although that part seems to be since they added in the extra visitor permission based on this thread. Mine were only bugged by showing different to what they were, after specific permission change order at various houses. Friends list always over rides anything and was only my temporary solution before reverting the mess. All of which was prior to the introduction of that permission. I may get on PTS and spend time to do this if more info with pics is needed from myself for both ZoS or players?! It will be a bit annoying for me as i will need to get another person to help test it with me on PTS for a while and at this moment have already spent 7 hours+ helping with many things or people, in game
    Victory or Valhalla!
    PC NA
  • terascque
    terascque
    Soul Shriven
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    What is the status on this bug?
  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    terascque wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    What is the status on this bug?

    My money is on: Completely forgotten.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Neoealth
    Neoealth
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    Sounds like poltergeist activity to me.
  • fuzydeth
    fuzydeth
    Soul Shriven
    Bumping this because it is still an issue. It doesn't matter that I set all my houses to the settings of one, it will still somehow reset my main as decorator. I think the problem seems to come when bouncing between houses you own. I will have to try and narrow it down more, but maybe when you hop to multiples (when trying to find furnishings and such) without real world loading screens does it cause the ui to bug out and reset to decorator. Honestly, I am all for just taking the decorator tab out of that part of the menu and leaving it solely in the friend list settings. That way you have better control and don't have to worry about it setting to decorator and having your guild hall trashed. At the very least, if it defaults to no access - that is waaaaay easier to deal with then redecorating the whole place.
  • Respect4Elders
    Respect4Elders
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    I was sad to see it's not even mentioned in the PTS patch notes. So I'm guessing no fix til June?
  • terascque
    terascque
    Soul Shriven
    You know what else is sad? The lack of response. Gina pops in almost 30 days ago and hasn't posted since.

    I tag her on a post that is now almost 10 days old. And there is still no communication on her part at all.

    Is it really that hard to share something? We don't have a clue. Or still looking through logs. Or we have an idea and are trying to replicate the issue by testing our idea. Something. I must be asking for Hell to freeze over or something else equally impossible.
  • ghastley
    ghastley
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    If there's something they found, perhaps they don't what to tip off the perpetrators? Even revealing how they're investigating may give people ideas on how to avoid detection.

    But still, ... fix it already!
  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    I have seen this happen time and again. Someone, often Gina or Jessica, will respond to a thread. We all get hopeful and excited that there will be answers forthcoming. Then, they never respond again.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    Hey guys, just following back up to let you know this hasn't dropped off our radar and we're still investigating.

    Are you really @ZOS_GinaBruno ?
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Wrathmane
    Wrathmane
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    I'd be really pissed if this happened to me!
    Sha'ria Wrathmane - Belora Wrathmane - Leora Wrathmane
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  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    Housing has got to have the most collective number of crowns spent by players than any other thing in the game.

    Doesn't this deserve a response and solution to this thread???

    I mean, you'd think so....
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Moloch1514
    Moloch1514
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    Hmm, I wonder what new bugs will come from this fix? I'm sure the crack QA team has their best folks on it!
    PC-NA
  • the_other_Alice
    the_other_Alice
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    Hi all, just to give an update on this, we have a fix scheduled for Monday's PC incremental patch. The fix for console will come on March 12 with the Wrathstone update.

    Since the fix should be up and running for pc eu I will give it a try later.
    Luckily I had no vandalism or redecorating of any sorts - but a permissions bug- houses that were open to visitors got closed, houses that were closed due to being remodeled or newly furnished had guests - when I put all my guilds on a banlist for a new project to avoid sneak peeks ALL of my houses could not be visited although it was specifically only this house and the permission was not copied to all the others and those guilds are on the visitors list... I suspected addons but even deleting all of them did no good - so I guess it was an ingame bug after all...
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  • InvitationNotFound
    InvitationNotFound
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    This sounds quite a bit strange and at first I'd say it is a permission issue where the player is responsible. A bug / glitch would be quite a bit strange.

    As far as I understood, you're playing on console, right? So there aren't any AddOns at all, is that correct? If you were playing on PC there might have been a bug in the API or something like that, but without AddOns (and /script command) this shouldn't be the case.

    If it is a bug / glitch, it would be very very strange. But anyway, ZOS should take a look at it. (and did...)
    Ertosi wrote: »
    lasertooth wrote: »
    I can provide 5 gamertags from both my guilds who have had their houses vandalized and completely destroyed, including the most recent player that had it done twice to her. I can provide at least 4 more gamertags of people in my guild who swear their default permissions keep resetting to a different setting than they used...

    Just a heads up that this has to be an inside job. In order to visit another player's home, you have to either be on their friends list or in a guild with them. Technically you could also visit someone's home if you were currently grouped with them. There's simply no way to visit the homes of random players. So the most likely situation is someone in your guild is trolling the other players.

    Depends.

    You're playing on PC/NA. Take a look at my AddOn (ptf). You can port to anyone you want as long as you have permissions. Of course, this doesn't apply in this case, unless you are capable of accessing the Addon API on console.


    As mentioned earlier a log book would be a most useful feature to consider.

    Then at least you would know who to block - though this absolutely should not be possible in the first place yes.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws

    Awesome idea. :)
    Hi all, just to give an update on this, we have a fix scheduled for Monday's PC incremental patch. The fix for console will come on March 12 with the Wrathstone update.

    Was this an issue on PC as well? (going to dig again into the patch notes >_< )

    Edit: didn't find anything on the patch notes. a pure console issue or has it been forgotten in the notes?
    Edited by InvitationNotFound on February 28, 2019 11:21AM
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