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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/609214/tales-of-tribute-exploit-account-bans#latest

Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

  • rexagamemnon
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    #makeimperialsgreatagain

    Instead of gutting the only race that required a “upgrade”, perhaps you guys should listen to the community and try again at the racial passives for imperials. Because they are now by far the worst race to play as. And now their is no incentive to purchase the imperial edition upgrade. Even the colovian nibenese idea would have been a fair comprimise
  • silvereyes
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    Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.
    Hrm. Perhaps doing away with percents and moving to flat bonuses as well? Would be nice to not have to worry about jump points and rounding, or confusion about what the base values are that the percents apply to. But of course, the devil would be in the numbers.

    Edit: I just re-read Gill's words, and he's talking about stat increases, not individual Champion bonuses, so I guess it wouldn't really effect jump points. Still, the formula for calculating the stats boost for CP is pretty esoteric, so I think a flat value per CP would definitely make a lot of sense, given the move to flat values in the racial passives as well. Besides being easier to understand, making more calculations independent of variable things like attribute points and gear also seems like it could open up some interesting optimization options server-side.
    Edited by silvereyes on January 30, 2019 11:11PM
  • Dracane
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    silvereyes wrote: »
    Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.
    Hrm. Perhaps doing away with percents and moving to flat bonuses as well? Would be nice to not have to worry about jump points and rounding, or confusion about what the base values are that the percents apply to. But of course, the devil would be in the numbers.

    Edit: I just re-read Gill's words, and he's talking about stat increases, not individual Champion bonuses, so I guess it wouldn't really effect jump points. Still, the formula for calculating the stats boost for CP is pretty esoteric, so I think a flat value per CP would definitely make a lot of sense, given the move to flat values in the racial passives as well. Besides being easier to understand, making more calculations independent of variable things like attribute points and gear also seems like it could open up some interesting optimization options server-side.

    It's hard to understand what he wrote there. I am still not certain.
    At first it sounded like they want to streamline CP bonuses. Right now it indeed sounds like they want to let CP affect the things that we expect them to. Sets, bufffood, racials. I hope I am right.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • winterbornb14_ESO
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    Leave the Imperial % health bonus alone.

    The change will KILL not nerf the reason I purchased the Imperial Edition. The Health tank (BlazePlar) is only viable with high health and this change effects all of its skills that are health based. They already nerfed Blazing shield into the ground due to PvP cries so DPS isn't an issue.

    Are health tanks P2W?
    Are heath tanks topping the raid charts?
    Is another class play style a bad thing?
    How does the extra health hurt the game?

    ZOS_Gilliam your need to make all changes to a flat number is going to hurt the game and *** off customers.

    BTW it is the only other Tank play style/build and is the only Tank build that people with some disabilities can play effectively.

    If you change it because you don't know what it will do customers then I want a refund.

    Leave it alone...............

  • ProbablePaul
    ProbablePaul
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    Leave the Imperial % health bonus alone.

    The change will KILL not nerf the reason I purchased the Imperial Edition. The Health tank (BlazePlar) is only viable with high health and this change effects all of its skills that are health based. They already nerfed Blazing shield into the ground due to PvP cries so DPS isn't an issue.

    Are health tanks P2W?
    Are heath tanks topping the raid charts?
    Is another class play style a bad thing?
    How does the extra health hurt the game?

    ZOS_Gilliam your need to make all changes to a flat number is going to hurt the game and *** off customers.

    BTW it is the only other Tank play style/build and is the only Tank build that people with some disabilities can play effectively.

    If you change it because you don't know what it will do customers then I want a refund.

    Leave it alone...............

    Can you please explain why you're against having flat values, and would rather have percentages?

    You might be losing out on that single 'big bonus' from the racial with these changes, but you are gaining a higher base value, which is used when calculating the additive bonuses applied with percentages. In the long run, this will make the game more balanced, and easier to make changes that make sense. These changes sort of prevent races from making balancing the game too difficult, and they're not really much of a nerf.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I understand these changes to work:

    Say your base health is 30,000 after applying any flat value bonuses.

    Before the changes:

    * Entropy; 5% bonus: 30,000 * .05 = 1500
    * Imperial race bonus; 12% bonus: 30,000 * .12 = 3600
    * Max Health: 30,000 * 1.17 = 35,100

    After the changes:

    * New Imperial Bonus; 2000 added base health.
    * Entropy; 5% bonus: 32,000 * .05 = 1600
    * Max Health: 32,000 * 1.05 = 33,600

    You're thinking, damn, I would lose 1500 hp, but what do you think happens when you start stacking percentages? Let's say you had a bonus of 25%?

    Before the changes: 30,000 * 1.25 = 37,500

    After the changes: 32,000 * 1.25 = 40,000

    Maybe you will argue, "Without the imperial bonus, it's going to be much harder to achieve such a high percentage bonus." Well, then let's consider that, and we will say that after the changes, you can't easily get +25% max health, and instead can only achieve 25% - 12% = 13%,

    after the changes: 32,000 * 1.13 = 36,160

    Hmm, 1340 difference. That seems like a big impact but this is only this one scenario assuming the same number of modifiers exist in the game. If the game is updated so that big percentage modifiers are on sets instead of on races, then if you can reach that 25% value, you're going to have more health than you would have had prior to the changes.

    You might be giving up 1k health on at the min/max end of the spectrum, but you will reach those higher values more easily, meaning you can apply stats elsewhere once you reach your target levels of health. If you want to have a meme build where you just have the most health as possible, yeah, these changes might hinder that a little bit.
    Edited by ProbablePaul on January 31, 2019 1:42AM
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw
    Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade
  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    I agree. Dunmer proclivity towards Destruction Magic (I.E. Fire Damage) has been a defining trait throughout the ES series. As with the issue surrounding Bosmer Stealth, this change seems opposed to the stated goals of the Racial Update with regards to Lore, diversity, racial identity and playing as one will. Players have been building Dunmer characters with the Fire Damage Passive in mind for years, why the sudden and abrupt change?

    This. Although I am personnaly more concerned about the Bosmer change, both Bosmers and Dunmers are getting hit by a non lore friendly stick here. Maybe the stat change isn't that bad for Dunmers, since they get spell power instead, meaning any magic ability would get a slight boost, abd fire damage on the other hand will be lowered a tad bit... But there is no way this could fit the lore. Or what people had in the solo games over almost 3 decades.

    And don't get me started on Bosmers and the loss of stealth. The stealth detection bonus that replaces the stealth bonus has no use whatsoever in PvE and only a marginal use in PvP.

    People complained about sneaky Bosmer snipers in PvP ? Well they will complain about sneakier Khajiit snipers now. And for those who will remain Bosmer, they will simply see you guys coming from a mile away if you try sneaking upon them. And that's the whole use of the new bonus. There. No other use anywhere in the game. Stealth on the other hand was an accessory mechanic that "only" had use in the Justice system, to steal the hoard of items that exist only to be stolen or to avoid guards, and well, it's not like we have, say, two DLC that revolve around stealth, right ?

    Sure, it never required to be a Bosmer to be stealthy, but it helped. It made sense. They are the stealthiest fellows around and have been in every game, it's mentionend in many in-game books in the Elder Scroll series, their most well-known epic is called "the 1000 benefits of hiding", they have a "rite of theft"... So obviously they should become as adept at stealth as any Orc or Nord. Makes complete sense.

    Or maybe not at all. Yeah, I'd say not at all.
    Edited by Uryel on January 31, 2019 1:42AM
  • ProbablePaul
    ProbablePaul
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    Uryel wrote: »
    I agree. Dunmer proclivity towards Destruction Magic (I.E. Fire Damage) has been a defining trait throughout the ES series. As with the issue surrounding Bosmer Stealth, this change seems opposed to the stated goals of the Racial Update with regards to Lore, diversity, racial identity and playing as one will. Players have been building Dunmer characters with the Fire Damage Passive in mind for years, why the sudden and abrupt change?
    ...
    And don't get me started on Bosmers and the loss of stealth. The stealth detection bonus that replaces the stealth bonus has no use whatsoever in PvE and only a marginal use in PvP.
    ...

    Bosmer's lorewise are hunters, they don't eat vegetables or plants at all. It's all meat, they're hunters in the truest sense, meaning they don't hide as much as they track things down. So, it actually fits the lore perfectly... because there is no hiding from the new bosmer that is within 3m of you(even if you're cloaked[it's like a passive 3m detection potion is always active]), giving them the strategic advantage in combat. You say that this isn't useful in PvE, maybe so, but they could add things to the game that make this useful, doubtful but it's possible. Not to mention, that the dodge roll speed bonus more than makes up for it and the stam recovery change easily drives it home if not making you wonder if bosmer are too powerful now. But, you're right that we lost our bonus to stealth damage, and our decreased detection radius, so we deserve some extra love.

    Also, it's not really possible to perfectly adapt the races to the lore when balancing needs to be considered, as staying true to the lore for bosmer would require allowing them to charm animals and force them to eat the corpse of everything they killed.
    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw
    Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

    How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

    You gonna adress that too?

    Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

    Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

    Only if you can't sustain. Sustain really isn't that terrible anymore. Ever since the off balance changes, I rarely got into trouble even with a full damage setup. More sustain is convenient, but only that.

    Dunmer has the 2nd highest damage potential for magicka of all races. That is a great position to be in, considering the difference between most races is so small now. It is up to you as a player to use this potential.

    The issue with Dunmer is sustain, right? Altmer already have decent sustain and the exact same amount of spell damage- so, they can build toward more spell damage. Dunmer will have to increase their sustain in order to keep up with boss/pvp fights... instead of adding more spell damage. Thus- their spell damage potential won't reach that of the Altmer.

    There's no reason to play a Dunmer (even on an mDK) if you can have better sustain and spell damage potential with an Altmer.

    Edited by Savos_Saren on January 31, 2019 2:20AM
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

    Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Please take into consideration that, in order for a Dunmer to achieve "hybrid" status, they'll have to invest CP between Spell/Weapon penetration AND they'll have to split CP between Elemental Expert and Mighty. There's not way that a "hybrid" can reach the spell/weapon damage potential of any "pure" builds (ie: Altmer Sorc or Redguard StamPlar)

    Perhaps a small amount of passive weapon/spell penetration could be added to assist?
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

    How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

    You gonna adress that too?

    Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

    Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

    Only if you can't sustain. Sustain really isn't that terrible anymore. Ever since the off balance changes, I rarely got into trouble even with a full damage setup. More sustain is convenient, but only that.

    Dunmer has the 2nd highest damage potential for magicka of all races. That is a great position to be in, considering the difference between most races is so small now. It is up to you as a player to use this potential.

    The issue with Dunmer is sustain, right? Altmer already have decent sustain and the exact same amount of spell damage- so, they can build toward more spell damage. Dunmer will have to increase their sustain in order to keep up with boss/pvp fights... instead of adding more spell damage. Thus- their spell damage potential won't reach that of the Altmer.

    There's no reason to play a Dunmer (even on an mDK) if you can have better sustain and spell damage potential with an Altmer.

    Good. Because Dunmer shouldn't be the best pure magicka race. They have enough other benefits.

    I can also see that your character is an Altmer… so no wonder why you're so hell bent at ensuring other races don't match the damage potential.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

    How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

    You gonna adress that too?

    Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

    Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

    Only if you can't sustain. Sustain really isn't that terrible anymore. Ever since the off balance changes, I rarely got into trouble even with a full damage setup. More sustain is convenient, but only that.

    Dunmer has the 2nd highest damage potential for magicka of all races. That is a great position to be in, considering the difference between most races is so small now. It is up to you as a player to use this potential.

    The issue with Dunmer is sustain, right? Altmer already have decent sustain and the exact same amount of spell damage- so, they can build toward more spell damage. Dunmer will have to increase their sustain in order to keep up with boss/pvp fights... instead of adding more spell damage. Thus- their spell damage potential won't reach that of the Altmer.

    There's no reason to play a Dunmer (even on an mDK) if you can have better sustain and spell damage potential with an Altmer.

    Good. Because Dunmer shouldn't be the best pure magicka race. They have enough other benefits.

    I can also see that your character is an Altmer… so no wonder why you're so hell bent at ensuring other races don't match the damage potential.

    That is true. So bascially the same what you are trying to achieve. The difference is between just and unjust.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Seraphayel
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    Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

    Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

    @ZOS_Gilliam

    Please take into consideration that, in order for a Dunmer to achieve "hybrid" status, they'll have to invest CP between Spell/Weapon penetration AND they'll have to split CP between Elemental Expert and Mighty. There's not way that a "hybrid" can reach the spell/weapon damage potential of any "pure" builds (ie: Altmer Sorc or Redguard StamPlar)

    Perhaps a small amount of passive weapon/spell penetration could be added to assist?

    Again, "hybrid" is the wrong term as it indicates that you can do all of the stuff but you're excelling at none of it - this is not the case with Dunmer. Replace "hybrid" with "versatile" and you have exactly what Dunmers will be after the changes (this is not only gameplay friendly, it fits the lore too). Great at both, Magicka and Stamina. For some builds and classes they are still the top pick out of all races with the difference that they can be great Stamina DPS now on top of being great Magicka DPS. Next to Khajiit Dunmer is the only race that can do this after the changes.

    It's funny that all of the Dunmer players are complaining although they're benefitting the most from the racial adjustments. Dunmer racials don't need more benefits, they're already very strong due to their versatile capabilities.
    Edited by Seraphayel on January 31, 2019 4:48AM
    Xbox Series X (EU)
    - Daggerfall Covenant -
  • Moonsorrow
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    amir412 wrote: »
    Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

    Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

    Im confused, this is a tease for upcoming nerf to CP system? does it mean cp will affect more or less stats?

    Waiting for next weeks PTS, with both hopeful and scared feelings.. Before these changes i was hopeful they would go the stam/mag morph version way of racials or total freedom of choosing them on top the basic flavor passive, now i am scared if there will just be even more nerfs.

    Trying my best to stay hopeful. Its been hard lately.
    PC/EU
    Grey Host, IC & bgs
    Solo & small scale
    1600+ CP
  • Moonsorrow
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    Can you please explain why you're against having flat values, and would rather have percentages?

    You might be losing out on that single 'big bonus' from the racial with these changes, but you are gaining a higher base value, which is used when calculating the additive bonuses applied with percentages. In the long run, this will make the game more balanced, and easier to make changes that make sense. These changes sort of prevent races from making balancing the game too difficult, and they're not really much of a nerf.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I understand these changes to work:

    You might be giving up 1k health on at the min/max end of the spectrum, but you will reach those higher values more easily, meaning you can apply stats elsewhere once you reach your target levels of health. If you want to have a meme build where you just have the most health as possible, yeah, these changes might hinder that a little bit.

    @ProbablePaul

    So a high hp tank at pvp is "meme build"? and your calculations were not right, when right now on live can go for 70k hp Blazeplar for pvp if wants.

    So no, it is NOT 1k health. Do the math again on a 70k hp build.

    What people want to save are their OPTIONS on builds, extremes. To you they might be "meme builds", but to others they are FUN builds, choices, freedom.

    Maybe not forget the build options we still have, before nerfs truly makes everyone mediocre. % bonuses on extreme amounts give bigger value if wanna build using it for the character, be it for fun or for group (pvp support) efficiency.

    Why do people forget that and give bad math examples from pve meta point of view?


    Edited by Moonsorrow on January 31, 2019 6:32AM
    PC/EU
    Grey Host, IC & bgs
    Solo & small scale
    1600+ CP
  • Kulvar
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

    Not being in the top 3 is meaningless.
    If Almter, Breton, and Khajiit only do 1 more average DPS, Dunmer would still be 4th place.
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • Kulvar
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    ZOS_Gilliam your need to make all changes to a flat number is going to hurt the game and *** off customers.

    I welcome flat numbers in racials because it give more space to gear around them instead of gearing for them.
    An Altmer will bring some Spell Resistance when a Breton will bring more Spell Damage on their respective gear setup when needed.
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • CleymenZero
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    CLiPPx wrote: »
    CLiPPx wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    CLiPPx wrote: »
    1 Race Change Token :s

    What a slap in the face to all of your customers. With a HUGE change to racial passives, and ultimately changing the way the game is played, you should definitely reconsider your measly single race change token to match the number of characters an account has.

    Or...

    Like someone else previously stated: Give us a time period of unlimited, free race changes.

    Been a customer since '14 and this is the first time I've been disappointed with ESO.

    Or roll with the change and challenge yourself in making an off-meta build with the races you have been given that replaces the meta?

    3rd option is easier, you explore the content without looking like a tool-bag or spending $400 dollars for no reason lol.

    Ehem...did I ask for your opinion? My comment was obviously not for you, yet you felt compelled to give me your two cents anyway. Such a bag of tools YOU are.

    "Roll with the change"...I take it you're a "Yes Man" and are either oblivious to--or accept--when you're being taken advantage of and don't fight back.

    Anyway...when I created new characters, I created them based on their racial passives. Many hours, years even, were spent leveling and grinding to get where I'm at today. Now that the devs are doing an overhaul on racial passives, maybe...just maybe myself and 96% of other ESO players want to respec or race change due to the overhaul, which was out of our control. It only makes sense to offer a race change token for each of your characters to maintain/bolster customer trust and respect. It's not just about meta/off-meta or whatever.

    ZOS: Haaayyy friend! 😏

    Me: Sup

    ZOS: Listen, I've got something to tell you and I'm not sure how you're gonna feel about it...😅

    Me: Uh oh, go on...🤨🤔

    ZOS: I know you've invested ~$600 in sub fees on and off over the past few years and spent 60+ days in-game time across all of your characters, but we're gonna go ahead and change all of your character's passives. So now, what used to work, won't anymore 😉. BAAAALLAAAANCE

    Me: Ok, cool. I have no problem with that, but...you're going to let me race change for free since you're changing all of the passives, right?🤔

    ZOS: Oh, no! Only gonna give you one race change token and you're going to have to pay for the rest of your characters if you want them changed 🤪

    Me: Uhhh, excuse me? That's not a good look ZOSsy-poo. If all my characters that I've spent hundreds of hours on, which I still enjoy currently, won't yield the results I'm looking for due to your change, I'm going to have to race change them all!🤯

    ZOS: Duh. 🤑

    Me: You're seriously only giving us one free token?! You're expecting us to pay $30/toon because YOU decided to change everything. But that's out of my control and unwarranted.😠🤢

    ZOS: Deal with it sucker. I know plenty of players that will pay!🤫🤑🤑

    Me: I hate you right now.😑 (a love-hate feeling more or less)


    Heck, I'd be ok with four tokens, but one?! Serious slap in the face.

    Not enough of us right now complaining. And if we fought and got our tokens, everyone that told us to shut up would be so happy. I don't get them.

    If you don't want the race-change token, don't use em. I need them and it is so obvious to anyone, for fairness' sake, that them turning the racial passives up and down should make them give us free race-change token. So /$%/$"? stupid!

    Also, to those who say dumb things like "adapt to having non-meta race and gitgud". It is the single most stupid thing one can read.

    Nefas did an interview with the leaders of the top-scoring guilds in the game. Here's what they have to say about the Meta and people not playing meta:


    If you still don't understand why I'm upset with them not compensating for their changes, you simply don't understand the matter and your inability to understand prevents the conversation from going forward.

    I love the changes, don't think I have to pay to adapt. If you could grind race-change tokens, I would. Even then, if you still want to make money, do a sale for 10 for 5k crowns. That's 50$ man give me a break!

    I know, right. More of us need to speak up about this. It is totally unfair to only give us one free token.

    I'm cool with the passive overhaul, and like you said, I don't think it's right that we should pay extra money to change our races to re-align with what we want.

    And you're right, most of us need them! Maybe if I was a player who has only been playing for a month or two it wouldn't affect me as hard, but we're talking years of play. If you have no use for them, then save them for when you do (or don't use them at all!). But ZOS needs to do what's right and not come off as just trying to make a quick buck.

    Glad I'm not an isolated case....

    Based on this, what do we do? We need to start something bigger than comments here and there. A poll? A thread? I don't know but I feel screwed over....
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hope they don't decrease our stat pools with the Cp calculation. I would rather they add those stats to the base level 50 so you don't need to get used to different stat pools in no cp.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • ArcticF0xx
    ArcticF0xx
    ✭✭
  • CleymenZero
    CleymenZero
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ArcticF0xx wrote: »

    Ahh I get your point but it is not what I would ask.

    My goal would be to determine how many are happy with the changes but would want to be compensated with race change tokens.

    The changes incurring costs for a lot of end game players, I stand against these changes if there is no compensation.

    The fact that they had the race change tokens at 16% 2 weeks or so ago is also another slap in the face.
  • slaet81
    slaet81
    Soul Shriven
    WOW so you killed orc's and made nord's the new meta tank's. The bretons get some small improvement's & the changes to redguard's dont help at all.All ep&ad races get improvement's and dc dont get crap thx zos.
  • NobleMatias
    NobleMatias
    ✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

    How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

    You gonna adress that too?
    Dunmer have always been hybrids, and if you do testing in PTS or look it up on Youtube, you will see they easily compare to other races in damage and even sustain. Why are there so many sets that are hybrid..... because ZOS has wanted that from the start. They know a lot of people like playing that way but you shouldn't be scared because Dunmer are indeed viable both ways.
  • NobleMatias
    NobleMatias
    ✭✭
    CLiPPx wrote: »
    CLiPPx wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    CLiPPx wrote: »
    1 Race Change Token :s

    What a slap in the face to all of your customers. With a HUGE change to racial passives, and ultimately changing the way the game is played, you should definitely reconsider your measly single race change token to match the number of characters an account has.

    Or...

    Like someone else previously stated: Give us a time period of unlimited, free race changes.

    Been a customer since '14 and this is the first time I've been disappointed with ESO.

    Or roll with the change and challenge yourself in making an off-meta build with the races you have been given that replaces the meta?

    3rd option is easier, you explore the content without looking like a tool-bag or spending $400 dollars for no reason lol.

    Ehem...did I ask for your opinion? My comment was obviously not for you, yet you felt compelled to give me your two cents anyway. Such a bag of tools YOU are.

    "Roll with the change"...I take it you're a "Yes Man" and are either oblivious to--or accept--when you're being taken advantage of and don't fight back.

    Anyway...when I created new characters, I created them based on their racial passives. Many hours, years even, were spent leveling and grinding to get where I'm at today. Now that the devs are doing an overhaul on racial passives, maybe...just maybe myself and 96% of other ESO players want to respec or race change due to the overhaul, which was out of our control. It only makes sense to offer a race change token for each of your characters to maintain/bolster customer trust and respect. It's not just about meta/off-meta or whatever.

    ZOS: Haaayyy friend! 😏

    Me: Sup

    ZOS: Listen, I've got something to tell you and I'm not sure how you're gonna feel about it...😅

    Me: Uh oh, go on...🤨🤔

    ZOS: I know you've invested ~$600 in sub fees on and off over the past few years and spent 60+ days in-game time across all of your characters, but we're gonna go ahead and change all of your character's passives. So now, what used to work, won't anymore 😉. BAAAALLAAAANCE

    Me: Ok, cool. I have no problem with that, but...you're going to let me race change for free since you're changing all of the passives, right?🤔

    ZOS: Oh, no! Only gonna give you one race change token and you're going to have to pay for the rest of your characters if you want them changed 🤪

    Me: Uhhh, excuse me? That's not a good look ZOSsy-poo. If all my characters that I've spent hundreds of hours on, which I still enjoy currently, won't yield the results I'm looking for due to your change, I'm going to have to race change them all!🤯

    ZOS: Duh. 🤑

    Me: You're seriously only giving us one free token?! You're expecting us to pay $30/toon because YOU decided to change everything. But that's out of my control and unwarranted.😠🤢

    ZOS: Deal with it sucker. I know plenty of players that will pay!🤫🤑🤑

    Me: I hate you right now.😑 (a love-hate feeling more or less)


    Heck, I'd be ok with four tokens, but one?! Serious slap in the face.

    Not enough of us right now complaining. And if we fought and got our tokens, everyone that told us to shut up would be so happy. I don't get them.

    If you don't want the race-change token, don't use em. I need them and it is so obvious to anyone, for fairness' sake, that them turning the racial passives up and down should make them give us free race-change token. So /$%/$"? stupid!

    Also, to those who say dumb things like "adapt to having non-meta race and gitgud". It is the single most stupid thing one can read.

    Nefas did an interview with the leaders of the top-scoring guilds in the game. Here's what they have to say about the Meta and people not playing meta:


    If you still don't understand why I'm upset with them not compensating for their changes, you simply don't understand the matter and your inability to understand prevents the conversation from going forward.

    I love the changes, don't think I have to pay to adapt. If you could grind race-change tokens, I would. Even then, if you still want to make money, do a sale for 10 for 5k crowns. That's 50$ man give me a break!

    I know, right. More of us need to speak up about this. It is totally unfair to only give us one free token.

    I'm cool with the passive overhaul, and like you said, I don't think it's right that we should pay extra money to change our races to re-align with what we want.

    And you're right, most of us need them! Maybe if I was a player who has only been playing for a month or two it wouldn't affect me as hard, but we're talking years of play. If you have no use for them, then save them for when you do (or don't use them at all!). But ZOS needs to do what's right and not come off as just trying to make a quick buck.

    Im confused. Every race will be on par with each other mathematically, so why would you want to race change in the first place..... oh I know because you chose that race based on stats to begin with, makes sense now.
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