Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Seraphayel

Carbonised wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?

Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

Arseny

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

It's very inspiring! My Argonian Stamina DD is looking forward to new changes)

Lord_Eomer

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

@ZOS_Gilliam you left us confused, does this mean that Racial Stats will be affected by Champion System?

Vanthras79

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Goody-goody!

StarOfElyon

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

...

Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

...

Interesting

CLiPPx

1 Race Change Token

What a slap in the face to all of your customers. With a HUGE change to racial passives, and ultimately changing the way the game is played, you should definitely reconsider your measly single race change token to match the number of characters an account has.

Or...

Like someone else previously stated: Give us a time period of unlimited, free race changes.

Been a customer since '14 and this is the first time I've been disappointed with ESO.

Minno

CLiPPx wrote: »

1 Race Change Token

What a slap in the face to all of your customers. With a HUGE change to racial passives, and ultimately changing the way the game is played, you should definitely reconsider your measly single race change token to match the number of characters an account has.

Or...

Like someone else previously stated: Give us a time period of unlimited, free race changes.

Been a customer since '14 and this is the first time I've been disappointed with ESO.

Or roll with the change and challenge yourself in making an off-meta build with the races you have been given that replaces the meta?

3rd option is easier, you explore the content without looking like a tool-bag or spending $400 dollars for no reason lol.

Dracane

So this hopefully means, that racial ressources will now scale with CP.
Or this could as well be a streamline, thus likely a further nerf. If they make a global change to how CP add to our stats, it can't possibly turn out all too good for us. We shall see, but it does not sound like they will just let CP affect ressources and that's all.

Scratplays

Instead of just a race change token, could we get a class change token as well? It would be useful with the addition of the Necromancer class.

Dagoth_Rac

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam you left us confused, does this mean that Racial Stats will be affected by Champion System?

Page 1 of Natch Potes:
"The 20% CP stat bonus will now apply to all food, drink, set bonuses, and racial passives!"

Page 17 of Natch Potes:
"The stat bonus of all food, drink, set bonuses, and racial passives has been reduced by 50%."

Dracane

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam you left us confused, does this mean that Racial Stats will be affected by Champion System?

Page 1 of Natch Potes:
"The 20% CP stat bonus will now apply to all food, drink, set bonuses, and racial passives!"

Page 17 of Natch Potes:
"The stat bonus of all food, drink, set bonuses, and racial passives has been reduced by 50%."

If case 1 was true, that would be a glorious change and compensation.
Case 2 would be dreadful, even when combined.

Elsonso

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

@ZOS_Gilliam you left us confused, does this mean that Racial Stats will be affected by Champion System?

I suspect that the answer to this, and more, is coming on Monday.

BenevolentBowd

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

CP calculation changes? Interesting...

I wonder if this means they are fixing the CP percentage rounding to eliminate jump points.

Ddera

Why the change to dunmer? It makes no sense to ruin their small fire bonus.
There's absolutely no reason to play a dunmer with these racial tratis, if you want a glass for either magic or weapon damage.


All the builds that was based on that small fire damage perk are useless, too. Keep the fire damage perk, at least. Destroy the rest if you want!

Inklings

Ddera wrote: »

Why the change to dunmer? It makes no sense to ruin their small fire bonus.
There's absolutely no reason to play a dunmer with these racial tratis, if you want a glass for either magic or weapon damage.


All the builds that was based on that small fire damage perk are useless, too. Keep the fire damage perk, at least. Destroy the rest if you want!

YOU ARE STILL GETTING 258 SPELL DAMAGE!!! Would you be happier if it was worded 258 spell damage that includes fire damage? Youre only loosing individuality not actual power. There is still ALL THE REASON to play a darkelf for magic classes if you want too. They are only parsing a few 100 dps off the top race. The boulder is not falling on Vivec. All is not doomed!

CLiPPx

Minno wrote: »

CLiPPx wrote: »

1 Race Change Token

What a slap in the face to all of your customers. With a HUGE change to racial passives, and ultimately changing the way the game is played, you should definitely reconsider your measly single race change token to match the number of characters an account has.

Or...

Like someone else previously stated: Give us a time period of unlimited, free race changes.

Been a customer since '14 and this is the first time I've been disappointed with ESO.

Or roll with the change and challenge yourself in making an off-meta build with the races you have been given that replaces the meta?

3rd option is easier, you explore the content without looking like a tool-bag or spending $400 dollars for no reason lol.

Ehem...did I ask for your opinion? My comment was obviously not for you, yet you felt compelled to give me your two cents anyway. Such a bag of tools YOU are.

"Roll with the change"...I take it you're a "Yes Man" and are either oblivious to--or accept--when you're being taken advantage of and don't fight back.

Anyway...when I created new characters, I created them based on their racial passives. Many hours, years even, were spent leveling and grinding to get where I'm at today. Now that the devs are doing an overhaul on racial passives, maybe...just maybe myself and 96% of other ESO players want to respec or race change due to the overhaul, which was out of our control. It only makes sense to offer a race change token for each of your characters to maintain/bolster customer trust and respect. It's not just about meta/off-meta or whatever.

ZOS: Haaayyy friend! 😏

Me: Sup

ZOS: Listen, I've got something to tell you and I'm not sure how you're gonna feel about it...😅

Me: Uh oh, go on...🤨🤔

ZOS: I know you've invested ~$600 in sub fees on and off over the past few years and spent 60+ days in-game time across all of your characters, but we're gonna go ahead and change all of your character's passives. So now, what used to work, won't anymore 😉. BAAAALLAAAANCE

Me: Ok, cool. I have no problem with that, but...you're going to let me race change for free since you're changing all of the passives, right?🤔

ZOS: Oh, no! Only gonna give you one race change token and you're going to have to pay for the rest of your characters if you want them changed 🤪

Me: Uhhh, excuse me? That's not a good look ZOSsy-poo. If all my characters that I've spent hundreds of hours on, which I still enjoy currently, won't yield the results I'm looking for due to your change, I'm going to have to race change them all!🤯

ZOS: Duh. 🤑

Me: You're seriously only giving us one free token?! You're expecting us to pay $30/toon because YOU decided to change everything. But that's out of my control and unwarranted.😠🤢

ZOS: Deal with it sucker. I know plenty of players that will pay!🤫🤑🤑

Me: I hate you right now.😑 (a love-hate feeling more or less)


Heck, I'd be ok with four tokens, but one?! Serious slap in the face.

Carbonised

Seraphayel wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?

Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

Dracane

Carbonised wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?

Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

Only if you can't sustain. Sustain really isn't that terrible anymore. Ever since the off balance changes, I rarely got into trouble even with a full damage setup. More sustain is convenient, but only that.

Dunmer has the 2nd highest damage potential for magicka of all races. That is a great position to be in, considering the difference between most races is so small now. It is up to you as a player to use this potential.

Inklings

Carbonised wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?

Dunmer is still a top pick for Magicka. So I don't see any problem here. And instead of "hybrid" which indicates you can do both but are not excelling at either I'd use "versatile" but that's exactly what Dunmer and Khajiit will be after the update - the two races that are viable and competitive in both Magicka and Stamina.

Being number 4, behind Altmer, Breton and Khajiit, as all the data shows, is certainly not a "top pick". So maybe if you don't see the problem, you should do the math.

The math is only 600dps off the top spot. To me that still makes them a top pick over the other 6 races you didnt mention. There is NO problem.

Cinbri

Feels good for my dunmer-magplar after 4 years will be no longer just subpar RP choice.

Inklings wrote: »

Ddera wrote: »

Why the change to dunmer? It makes no sense to ruin their small fire bonus.
There's absolutely no reason to play a dunmer with these racial tratis, if you want a glass for either magic or weapon damage.


All the builds that was based on that small fire damage perk are useless, too. Keep the fire damage perk, at least. Destroy the rest if you want!

The asteroid is not falling on Vivec. All is not doomed!

Tell that to all those dunmers that were melted alive by Red Mountain during Red Year.

Deathlord92

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

I can’t wait to see what u got planned thank you for the update I have faith and ignore the stupid hate 😊

Kalle_Demos

Ddera wrote: »

Why the change to dunmer? It makes no sense to ruin their small fire bonus.
There's absolutely no reason to play a dunmer with these racial tratis, if you want a glass for either magic or weapon damage.


All the builds that was based on that small fire damage perk are useless, too. Keep the fire damage perk, at least. Destroy the rest if you want!

I agree. Dunmer proclivity towards Destruction Magic (I.E. Fire Damage) has been a defining trait throughout the ES series. As with the issue surrounding Bosmer Stealth, this change seems opposed to the stated goals of the Racial Update with regards to Lore, diversity, racial identity and playing as one will. Players have been building Dunmer characters with the Fire Damage Passive in mind for years, why the sudden and abrupt change?

As I understand, Dunmer were always competitive with Altmer as a Magic based race and this has been reflected in lore. With the changes it seems this will no longer be the case. Updating the Dunmer capacity for a more Stamina rich experience is fine and in line with their duality as the Spellsword archetype as opposed to the Alter Mage but their Magical capacity in game shouldn't suffer in exchange.

Nser

buff dark elf and health bonus is useless not effected

Dracane

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Ddera wrote: »

Why the change to dunmer? It makes no sense to ruin their small fire bonus.
There's absolutely no reason to play a dunmer with these racial tratis, if you want a glass for either magic or weapon damage.


All the builds that was based on that small fire damage perk are useless, too. Keep the fire damage perk, at least. Destroy the rest if you want!

I agree. Dunmer proclivity towards Destruction Magic (I.E. Fire Damage) has been a defining trait throughout the ES series. As with the issue surrounding Bosmer Stealth, this change seems opposed to the stated goals of the Racial Update with regards to Lore, diversity, racial identity and playing as one will. Players have been building Dunmer characters with the Fire Damage Passive in mind for years, why the sudden and abrupt change?

As I understand, Dunmer were always competitive with Altmer as a Magic based race and this has been reflected in lore. With the changes it seems this will no longer be the case. Updating the Dunmer capacity for a more Stamina rich experience is fine and in line with their duality as the Spellsword archetype as opposed to the Alter Mage but their Magical capacity in game shouldn't suffer in exchange.

Not at all, never. Not in Morrowind, not in Oblivion, not in Skyrim. Dunmer never was even compareable to Altmer and Breton. (I actually revisited all racials of those games to be certain)

In fact, Dunmer in Morrowind and Oblivion had stats more fitting for a physical based character and only a bit for magic. While Altmer always was pure magic, Breton as well. If there is a race that could be considered closely related to those, it would be Argonian.

The new ESO racials are more lore friendly than they had ever been. On the contrary, thus far, they were far from lore friendly.

max_only

SodanTok wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Makes me hopeful they wont touch that. Funny how that works

When do you use 3 meters of stealth detection?

max_only

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

So Bosmer have always been sneaky since the first game and this change is taking away their bonus to sneaking. This isn’t complex really. Stealth detection is not useful. no where in pve. Even if a mechanic is shoehorned in the future, the entirety of the current content that is being sold to players today has No Use for a stealth detection passive. Detecting stealthed enemies does not apply to Pve and it should remain an active skill in pvp. Just as passive dodge was removed to promote an active need for roll dodge, so too, should stealth detect require a decision on the part of the player to send up flares (Magelight) or use AOE damage.

Eiron77

Just want to ask ZOS to put a little more creative thought into the Hunter's Eye passive for Bosmer. The current build for it is a copy/paste of the Bow Skill Line passive, Hasty Retreat. I already have access to a lot of speed boosts and it feels redundant.
Also, stealth detection is pretty much useless for PvE.

IronWooshu

Carbonised wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?

@Carbonised You do realize if you played a Dark Elf you don't HAVE to go Hybrid, you can either go magicka or stamina. You make it sound like you have to do both..

BlueRaven

max_only wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Makes me hopeful they wont touch that. Funny how that works

When do you use 3 meters of stealth detection?

Exactly! Why was this even momentarily considered as a racial? It makes zero sense.

I am still hoping that this was some odd typo that somehow went live without anyone noticing. Like it was originally 3m of stealth AND 3m of stealth detect. Then at the last minute they decided to delete stealth detect but deleted the wrong half.

I am hoping it gets changed soon.

tv1973

Crossing my fingers for a Bosmer final passive fix.