Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

  • Malada
    Malada
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    Malada, I think you mean 3m hiding bonus. We never had 5m. The Khajiit did, for a week in PTS, but it was way too much. 3m hiding bonus is fine. I don't mind the speed bonus after a roll dodge. It's not great, but not bad. What I would like to see would be that we get our stealthy hiding bonus (which Bosmer have ALWAYS HAD) back, keep the roll dodge, but replace the penetration after roll-dodge with some kind of bow improvement: better crit chance or damage with a bow, better penetration with a bow, just a flat bonus to damage with a bow, just something which justifies the lore of Bosmer being the best at archery.

    The only 'practical' reason for roll dodging is if you're evading or gonna perform some kind of counter attack and evade to whatever extent.

    Now, again, 1k baby
    Malada, I think you mean 3m hiding bonus. We never had 5m. The Khajiit did, for a week in PTS, but it was way too much. 3m hiding bonus is fine. I don't mind the speed bonus after a roll dodge. It's not great, but not bad. What I would like to see would be that we get our stealthy hiding bonus (which Bosmer have ALWAYS HAD) back, keep the roll dodge, but replace the penetration after roll-dodge with some kind of bow improvement: better crit chance or damage with a bow, better penetration with a bow, just a flat bonus to damage with a bow, just something which justifies the lore of Bosmer being the best at archery.

    Crit dmg is no good because the Khajit followers who came in thru the side door won't allow that.

    Like I said, it seems they opened the door to these changes, maybe it was actually for good reasons however it just seems everyone is getting a pay day but us.

    Nords are getting a nice mitigation boost. Wow. Amazing. Very convenient.

    Orc change specs were terrible in the beginning, a certain streamer -rightfully- brought this up and guess what... it was fixed.

    Khajit got everything they wanted, got the magic crits fixed I see.

    Am I being unfair? I don't think so because looking over some of these changes it certainly looks like these are almost being tailored to builds and not truly reflecting the culture.

    For example, for 2 years now I've had Dunmer DPS Tank at Mit Cap. Easily done. You just have to take time to read and do a little maff. Changes should not be made based on a complaint that lacks relevance when there is a method available.

    You know, it's like this '***on' Guild Master who complained and complained about Marksman having 2H weapons, Destruction Staves. Viper having a Bow. She never once gave any thought to the fact there's a whole science around building things called 'Engineering' and that players should be free to build to *their* specs. To think and to Engineer builds that work for 'us'. Then One Tam comes out and starts burning books with 'smart loot'? Not to smart if you ask me. There's a word for that from the 1940s however the narration is in German.

    Point is because of one or two people making dumb, selfish decisions all of us are being punished and I'm getting tired of it.
  • Mr_Wolfe
    Mr_Wolfe
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    The_Lex wrote: »
    As I posted in another thread:
    I'd like to know which developer was truly committed to the Elder Scrolls series and universe before coming to ESO. By committed, I mean, more than a few play-throughs of a game to catch the flavor of the series or because the game was "cool to play" when it was released. Some of these racial passives show zero basis in established lore. Sure, they can be "shoehorned" into lore somehow, but that's not the same thing. And the established lore surrounding racial abilities can be made to work with an MMO - so that's no excuse either.

    Well, they had an official 'loremaster' but he left recently. Right before these changes were announced, in fact. :|
  • hakan
    hakan
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    Uryel wrote: »
    rage607 wrote: »
    Won't change anything in that regard, but PvE raiders will most certainly suffer with more tanks being one shot, etc.

    Forget PvE raiders, PvE casual are being hit really hard. I play a thief, and it's not roleplay. I sneak everywhere, hit the delve boss and him only, steal sh*t, whatever... I'm not into raids, not into veteran stuff, I just like to go wherever I damn well please and laugh as the guards don't see me.

    So of course I made a Bosmer. Stealthy, tiny, good with bows, what is there not to love here ? Well apparently some PvP whiners complaiend that Bosmers were too god with a bow and they couldn't win, so stealth bonus is being removed from them. It makes no sense lorewise, hurts no one in raid contentes, but makes us not-too-casual-but-certainly-not-hardcore players absurdly annoyed. Either I lose my gameplay, or I go khajiit and lose my character's identity. None of which is satisfactory.

    But hey, we get a stealth detection bonus ! Super cool, considering there isn't a single stealthed enemy in PvE. And now we can dodge roll for more penetration. Amazing, considering how little use it has in PvE, aside maybe in trials, I wouldn't know.

    This update reeks of PvP and screws the non-competitive players really bad. But hey, look ! Dragons ! Necromancers ! Excitement !

    Well, I'm not paying one more cent until I have a way to retain my stealth without tuning into a khajiit or taking extreme measures (like full stealth set for a still underperforming stealth level, vampire and looking like I fell from the ugly tree and hit all the branches on the way down, or morphing one of my most powerful skill into a version that doesn't use the ressource I use thus gimping its damage but providing a speed boost, or even better, having to use a PvP skill in PvE that does nothing but boost movement just so I can keep PvE-ing normally).

    Yeah because they listen whiners, so thats why it got nerfed /s.
  • karthrag_inak
    karthrag_inak
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    Malada wrote: »

    Khajit got everything they wanted, got the magic crits fixed I see.

    Bull. Moving crit % to crit damage was never asked for, and is going to be, for the majority of the stam jiit player base, a net nerf compared to live now. requiring over 70% crit for 10% crit damage to actually outweigh the old 8% crit bonus is going to move this outside of the vast majority of folks' reach. The only folks i see applauding this are non-jiit.

    jiit were doing fine with 4.3.2 but, well, leet-non-jiit endgame -magicka- folks cried hard enough for this change to happen based on jiit -magicka- performance, so it was shoved in across the board with neither comment nor explanation.


  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
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    I still want to my Breton to have stam racial passives his am assassin he wields swords daggers axes poisons he doesn’t use a stick
  • Jaimeh
    Jaimeh
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    Please consider raising the Dunmer max stats to 2000; this way mag and stam DPS won't have to be pigeon-hole'd to Altmer/Orc, and players can have more (equally strong) choices. For example, if a magicka DD likes extra stamina sustain, they can pick Altmer; if they want fire resistance because they are a vampire, they can pick Dunmer. Conversely, if a stamina DD likes extra health, they can pick Orc; and if they like fire resistance they can be a Dunmer. @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    Malada wrote: »
    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Please keep old Bosmer Stealthy racial passive.

    ZOS, you still have time to change that for the Wrathstone live patch. Imagine how many people you will make happy with that. Do it for once and see how it feels. There is no bad side doing so, people will just say "whoa, they actually listened to us!".

    Benefits are, then there are 2 races for stealthy playstyle. You wanted people to have more choices. Having only Khajiit as choice is not more, its less. So please make sure Bosmer is a possibility for Stealthy players still.

    You will get only good feedback from doing it. So please do the right thing. :)

    I do not beg often, but when i do, i go full /kneelpray on it. Pretty please?

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler

    The only thing I can't understand about this is why do we have to beg? I am not begging for them to do the right thing. You know it's like everything else, people are given authority and put into positions for a reason. It should have been obvious from the get-go that there are mistakes, some of which have been fixed I'll give em that.

    Adding the move speed bonus wasn't a bad thing however I find it suspect with the ahhh 'increase detection radius' and making us first roll dodge before getting a weapon pen bonus that we really don't need. Anyone else also notice this? It's like we're being trolled. You know it's like you don't like the Patriots because of their record and the fact they have a great team with tons of experience so instead of wearing gloves or braces or coming onto the field with the proper gear you force the team to come to every game going forward wearing a pink dress and an inner-tube, denied of the gear they need because you want to force them to lose while other teams are getting practically everything they want.

    However this ends up it should be obvious to all parties that nerfing a Sneak or Stealth attack bonus -alone-, then taking it out on one race out of spite is not going to protect you from your own laziness, carelessness, recklessness and in general a complete lack of competent decision making in places like Imperial City. Don't blame me because you're greedy. It looks like I'm going to be very busy in Imperial City for the foreseeable.

    Well, trying the polite way of saying what the majority of players feel about it. While yeah, "begging" seems like odd way of going at it.. i feel it might work better this time than the "changes suck im gonna uninstall" that many saying already.

    Just hoping they would see that having bosmer be also a choice for stealth play as it is now is just a positive thing and that they do not have to change something that is not broken. People do not need/want the dodge roll racial, but rather keep the old stealth radius one. It does not break balance if it stays like that, but will keep many bosmer players happy. Win-win for players and for ZOS imo.

    Some know i can do sarcastic crusades on bad changes.. so atleast am trying to stay constructive and polite this time. Even begging rather than doing some witty comments all over the forums. :p

    PC/EU
    Grey Host, IC & bgs
    Solo & small scale
    1600+ CP
  • Malada
    Malada
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    If this helps, I noticed with several races they're getting like 2x 129 Wep Dmgs or 2x 129 Spell Dmg buffs or whichever.

    I think that's great.

    So to compensate Bosmer players for removing the Stealth Sneak bonus (if it must be removed which I don't recommend) then go ahead and please compensate us with:

    2x 1487 Weapon Penetration, comes to 2974. These 1487 values are taken directly from sets, same as the 2x 129 (258) weapon and spell dmg buffs being handed out to other races.

    Why not? You're handing out weapon and spell dmg buffs and I believe you're handing those out for the right reason.

    Ok let's give Bosmer 2974 Permanent Weapon Pen and then leave the 10% move bonus in roll dodge.

    That is a very fair arrangement and would make everyone happy. People hate snipers, so the stealth bonus is gone. Bosmer need to be compensated for dmg loss and this gives us a dmg bonus directly in line with other races who got theirs from the same concept. If you got a problem with it, stack mitigation. Nords are getting 4k mitigation for example so there is an option for counter play.
  • rabidmyers
    rabidmyers
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    give argonians something to help them with stam dps
  • VoltrenXytech
    VoltrenXytech
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    seriously.... your removing argonian poison resist and immunity to the debuffs..... why?
    "ill never trust a Kitsune, but ill always trust a Lamia"
    characters: Aliceverron & Rime Fracture-blade
  • Cundu_Ertur
    Cundu_Ertur
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Malada wrote: »
    I'll leave it at this, if you don't like what I'm saying or if I'm wrong for saying it then prove me wrong. Let's see what they do.

    Never said you are wrong.

    Just telling what all the people from the game i know keep telling me, and that is that they want to keep their Bosmer thief characters with their current Stealthy passive and not want dodge rolling bonus that gives nothing to them. They just want to have more choice than 1 (Khajiit) for stealthy characters, they like bosmers and their lore.

    There is a very big player amount that play bosmers as main and love their lore and passives. I see no logical reason to alienate and make them unhappy. When keeping that stealthy passive is not away from anyone and is not "op" or anything.

    Just keep it the way it is and people (and cute bosmers) are happy.

    Not everything has to change "just because.." unless there really is a good reason. There is none. More reason to keep it actually, so there is atleast 2 races to pick for stealthy play, Bosmer and Khajiit.

    More choices and freedom was the goal of these changes, right? So having just 1 stealthy race is not more, its less.

    So: Keep Bosmer Stealthy passive. Let us steal undetected! <3

    #BosmerThuglife

    If there's only going to be one thief race, then there should be only one magic race and one warrior race. The other 7 races can be crafters and mules. <= this is sarcasm. kinda.

    The whole idea that each race needs its own passive is nonsense, especially since there are only so many things that can be buffed.

    tldr: I agree
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • VoltrenXytech
    VoltrenXytech
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    so your response to " races are not unique enough" was to blend them further together and make a few of them completely useless now..... you couldnt even roughly follow the elder scrolls passive perks i mean WTF you got rid of all stealth ability the khajits had, took argonians posion immunity and resistance to the wood elves, and made all stats a static nuber in stead of a flexible percentile? i mean there are some dumb moves but that was really stupid, if you want unique give wood elves the ability to release a poison nova on crit, or argonians the ability to randomly heal their team mates for 25% of there max health, something like those, not more boring minuscule and useless stat increases, "OH BOY 4% BETTER HEALING" more like oh boy someone was too lazy or were spiteful of argonians and gave us a useless skill.....hell i could list off a unique skill for each playable race that would be better than anything in this update
    "ill never trust a Kitsune, but ill always trust a Lamia"
    characters: Aliceverron & Rime Fracture-blade
  • Cundu_Ertur
    Cundu_Ertur
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    WTF you got rid of all stealth ability the khajits had, took argonians posion immunity and resistance to the wood elves, and made all stats a static nuber in stead of a flexible percentile?
    Actually, Khajiit are the only ones with stealth, it's in their last passive now, just not where it was before. Bosmer lose their stealth entirely and get a garbage detection passive that's unusable in PVE.
    The flat numbers are, generally, a buff.
    I agree about the poison, Bosmer should have had disease, Argonians poison immunity with resistance to both poison and disease.

    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • onegunholiday
    I feel like these changes will just force people to become more creative with their gear to reach desired effect. I think most of these passives were a little excessive to begin with. Imo, some of these minor nerds were needed.
  • hakan
    hakan
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    Uryel wrote: »
    Then maybe my Nord main could get some damage boosts from her passives to complement her role as DPS. More resistance is nice but she's all about smashing things with 2h axes, not tanking stuff.

    I'd add to that that my Nord is all about standing tall and laughing in the face of the enemy, and was geared accordingly. I recently downgraded his resists after learning about the resists cap. I was already well above it.

    So, getting a racial bonus that brings me back to where I was before the downgrad has no beneficial effect whatsoever. Guess I'll be able to remove some of my resist / HP gear for some stamina sustain, then. However, the percentage of damage reduction was extremely good, as it was on top of maximum resists.

    So, that change doesn't just only shoehorn Nords even more into their tank role, it also doesn't bring anything to the table, and even removes useful stuff, for those who were already eared up for resists anyway.

    It's still far from being as bad as what happens to the Bosmers, and is even alot tamer than the Altmers now regerenating their lowest ressource pool, but it's a "meh" for me. I'd love more choices like you suggest, but I believe we're never goin to see that.

    it is said that 6percent dmg reduction is more like 2-3percent because diminishing returns. i believe this is much better. flat 4k is also around 7,5 percent reduction.
  • KanedaSyndrome
    KanedaSyndrome
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    How about we disjoint racial skills from actual race. Let it be some morphs that we choose, regardless of which race we picked. That way we get to play the race we want while still having fun with the passives we'd like to use.

    De-Couple Racial Traits From Race
    Edited by KanedaSyndrome on February 25, 2019 10:41PM
    KanedaSyndrome's Suggestions For Game Improvements
    The Fortuitous Collapse of the Wave Equation
    The Best Plans Require No Action
  • Bosco916
    Bosco916
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    The changes look great. Ofcourse, I've mained a Breton since May 2014 and they've never been at the top, so I'm naturally liking what's in-store.

    So many people are up in arms because they feel they're losing out on this that and the other, it's as if nobody else is. I thought the goal was balancing, is it not?
    Edited by Bosco916 on February 26, 2019 9:43AM
    "How DARE you betray me, Tharn!
    Your suffering shall be LEGENDRY!"
    --The King of Worms
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