Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

TheTraveler

NobleMatias wrote: »

TheTraveler wrote: »

NobleMatias wrote: »

Yea sure, you wanna play that game.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

Suthay-raht are the kitties we have seen In almost every Elder Scrolls game, and I assume the ones in ESO, with no other racial difference other than skin change in the character creator, until now. This means I win right?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ring_of_Khajiiti

A powerful ring just for them sneaky pests.

Besides that point I It would be pretty cool to bring in all the racial differences and play styles of all the different kitties. I mean their might someone out there wanting to play a common house cat right?

Let's talk about actual TES game-play mechanic tradition in addition to "lore" . The lore you are quoting was only introduced in later TES games.

I clearly showed you in an earlier post, how Bosmer were the only "thief" race in the first Elder Scrolls game. In the second game, Argonians were presented as being sneaky, and only in the second game does Kahjiit come in as thieves, but not due to stealth - due to their climbing ability. https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Races_(Daggerfall)

Khajiit in Arena: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Khajiit_(Arena) As you can see, no sneaking or thievery, but the Bosmer most definitely are thieves:
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bosmer_(Arena)

LOL those are not proper links to show what you are talking about. I am not sure If you have played those games but races did not get a boost to skills, this was all chosen by the player in the character creator at the start of the game. The only boost the races got were to base stats. The site you are on is not the best site to look for Elder Scrolls lore and mechanics, but this site is.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daggerfall#Character_Information

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Races

get your facts straight before posting false information.

I DID play those games and in fact still own them. If you played them yourself you probably forgot how character creation worked, but for each race and even gender, you got + or - certain points added or subtracted from the base stat pool, and you got a certain amount of points to spend to increase whichever stat you wished to. I have been very familiar with the website you linked to, for years and years and years now, but that site does not show the aforementioned in any detail.

Villaine

52 pages in.

Should be 52 pages asking a single question...

Why only 1 free token?

Shameful!

Deathlord92

Bretons should have more spell resistance thn nords pls zos other thn tht I love changes to my Breton 🙂

Iron_Blurr

So dark elves get the apprentice and warrior mundus built in.
Altmer get the apprentice.
Bosmer get the serpent.
Orcs get the warrior.
Khajit get the thief.
Orcs get the lady x2
Imperials get.. NOTHING!!!
Seriously 5% block/bash reduction is just 1 piece of gold sturdy gear. Meanwhile other races are getting a mundus stone and then some.

Imperials need a buff

Arseny

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oPC8ZqlznTM&t=2s
Russian youtuber "Danik PROK" made a video to compare different races as stamina NB dd(all equipment, skills, champion points are same) on PTS.
So, results:
Orc 53203 (good sustain, the best average and total dmg)
Dunmer 52638 (average sustain)
Khajiit 51652 (approximately the same as on Live)
Nord 51629 (Bad sustain)
Bosmer 51388 (sustain is almost the same as Redgaurd)
Altmer 50378 (bad sustain)
Argonian 50286 (the worst sustain and average dmg)
Redguard 50259 (the best sustain)
In conclusion, Orc has the best DPS, Redguard and Bosmer have the best sustain(so they are very comfortable to play), Dunmer and Khajiit are universal and you can easy change them into magic.
And there is no Breton race, because it has not any stamina passive skills.

Al'Odin

On the face of it I think the changes look fair, but no doubt I will have to look at each of my char in turn and decide if a race change is needed.


As others have mentioned to only have 1 free gratis change is quite disgraceful and comes over as a money grab. I understand you just cant give out race changes for us to have in the bank, but you could certainly have 1 for each char per account but time limited, seems that would be fairer

BoxFoxx

Dark Elf (Dunmer) is going to become the new top choice for race... I think the ability to mix and match combinations of skillsets between Stam and Mag are under-rated. You can make some crazy stuff happen when both options for max effect are at your disposal.

BlueRaven

Did they say they were going to have a new revision pass on the racials this week? Any idea if that will be today?

John_Falstaff

@BlueRaven , nothing is official, but I think they do balancing changes later in PTS cycle - on second or third week after the cycle starts. So probably shouldn't hold breath for racial changes today, though who knows.

I'm still rooting for a bump to khajiit sustain (and removal of the ridiculous 100 health regen). Khajiit parses look good, but even with perfect support they're unsustainable and bound to plummet on longer distances. And to add insult to injury, builds with absorb stamina on DW took a hefty hit, so overall sustain have dropped.

BlueRaven

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@BlueRaven , nothing is official, but I think they do balancing changes later in PTS cycle - on second or third week after the cycle starts. So probably shouldn't hold breath for racial changes today, though who knows.

I'm still rooting for a bump to khajiit sustain (and removal of the ridiculous 100 health regen). Khajiit parses look good, but even with perfect support they're unsustainable and bound to plummet on longer distances. And to add insult to injury, builds with absorb stamina on DW took a hefty hit, so overall sustain have dropped.

Thanks! As for the numbers I think everything will work out in the end. If there is combat differences between the races I am sure they will be pretty minimal.
I am just worried about bosmers losing their stealth and I am hoping it will be reimplemented in some way.

StarOfElyon

Gotta admit, I think Altmer using Meditate is going to be OP. They won't be able to be killed. I say this with an Altmer main.

Merlin13KAGL

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Gotta admit, I think Altmer using Meditate is going to be OP. They won't be able to be killed. I say this with an Altmer main.

You think 5% is going to make them unkillable?

IronWooshu

While reflecting on the Nord, the race changes are good. However the ultimate passive absolutely has to be 5 ultimate every 8 seconds, this would be equal to a set just like Altmer and Redguard who's resource return is essentially just a little shy of a 5 pc Bloodthorn.

Also you really pidgeon hole Nord into tanking and leave them not really suitable for any other role with the ultimate only scaling when taking damage. I think for them to be able to fill more roles the ultimate generation should be while in combat, this would allow Nord healers and Nord DPS to be more viable as ultimates will up our healing and damage done.

StarOfElyon

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Gotta admit, I think Altmer using Meditate is going to be OP. They won't be able to be killed. I say this with an Altmer main.

You think 5% is going to make them unkillable?

I'm wondering because the Psijic passives add more protection while channeling Psijic skills. I'm thinking, combined, the damage mitigation could make Meditate a toxic ability more suitable for an ultimate than a regular skill.

Xsorus

So Redguard Magicka Sorcs might be a thing next patch.

TheTraveler

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Gotta admit, I think Altmer using Meditate is going to be OP. They won't be able to be killed. I say this with an Altmer main.

You think 5% is going to make them unkillable?

I'm wondering because the Psijic passives add more protection while channeling Psijic skills. I'm thinking, combined, the damage mitigation could make Meditate a toxic ability more suitable for an ultimate than a regular skill.

I find that meditate is easily interrupted in battle though. It's hard to keep it up long enough while in battle.

NobleMatias

TheTraveler wrote: »

NobleMatias wrote: »

TheTraveler wrote: »

NobleMatias wrote: »

Yea sure, you wanna play that game.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

Suthay-raht are the kitties we have seen In almost every Elder Scrolls game, and I assume the ones in ESO, with no other racial difference other than skin change in the character creator, until now. This means I win right?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ring_of_Khajiiti

A powerful ring just for them sneaky pests.

Besides that point I It would be pretty cool to bring in all the racial differences and play styles of all the different kitties. I mean their might someone out there wanting to play a common house cat right?

Let's talk about actual TES game-play mechanic tradition in addition to "lore" . The lore you are quoting was only introduced in later TES games.

I clearly showed you in an earlier post, how Bosmer were the only "thief" race in the first Elder Scrolls game. In the second game, Argonians were presented as being sneaky, and only in the second game does Kahjiit come in as thieves, but not due to stealth - due to their climbing ability. https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Races_(Daggerfall)

Khajiit in Arena: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Khajiit_(Arena) As you can see, no sneaking or thievery, but the Bosmer most definitely are thieves:
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bosmer_(Arena)

LOL those are not proper links to show what you are talking about. I am not sure If you have played those games but races did not get a boost to skills, this was all chosen by the player in the character creator at the start of the game. The only boost the races got were to base stats. The site you are on is not the best site to look for Elder Scrolls lore and mechanics, but this site is.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daggerfall#Character_Information

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Races

get your facts straight before posting false information.

I DID play those games and in fact still own them. If you played them yourself you probably forgot how character creation worked, but for each race and even gender, you got + or - certain points added or subtracted from the base stat pool, and you got a certain amount of points to spend to increase whichever stat you wished to. I have been very familiar with the website you linked to, for years and years and years now, but that site does not show the aforementioned in any detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4c9Vo7vy1Y

I got you, but you really can make a character however you want pretty much regardless of race, I have made many myself. Base stats kinda don't matter when every race can be heavily modified to the point where every stat and skill is even. Newer titles are a bit different.

ZOS_Gilliam

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Turelus

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

CP calculation changes? Interesting...

Footfalls

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

@ZOS_Gilliam Please consider changing Argonian healing done +4% to healing done and received +3% each. As it is healing done benefits healers the most, but having healing done and received benefits all archetypes - DPS, Tank, and Heals. The Argonian healing passive was changed in the previous PTS racial update 2 years ago from 9% healing done to 5% healing done and received for the same reason - that it benefits all types of play, not just healers.

As one of the goals of this update was "Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.", I believe this change would be in line with that principle.

BlueRaven

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Suddwrath

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

@ZOS_Gilliam does this mean that our max health, magicka, and stamina will be affected by the changes or just that the changes will make it easier for us to understand how CP will affect those things going forward?

TheRealPotoroo

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Bosmers are screwed. RIP stealth, RIP lore, RIP intelligent game design.

BlueRaven

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Bosmers are screwed. RIP stealth, RIP lore, RIP intelligent game design.

I just wish they would say something like “we are working on restoring Bosmer stealth” or something. Just a mention, I don’t need to see numbers yet, so I can stop stressing over it.

WeerW3ir

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Bosmers are screwed. RIP stealth, RIP lore, RIP intelligent game design.

Good. good. let the hate flow trough you

Seraphayel

Very excited to see the adjustments you made! Hopefully reasonable ones and not necessarily listening to all the unreasonable complaints. And I love that every race gets an own race identity.

SodanTok

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

Makes me hopeful they wont touch that. Funny how that works

FrancisCrawford

BlueRaven wrote: »

Maybe I am reading too far into this, but that Bosmer and the stealth issue was not mentioned just makes me nervous.

It would be a good fit as a "new small bonus".

SturgeHammer

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

Is the Resourceful passive change a boost to max stats provided, resource return, both, or something completely different?

Carbonised

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments

How about the forced "identity" of Dunmer as apparently a "hybrid" race, in a game where "hybrid" gameplay is completely unviable due to the game design? Or the "identity" of being a clear cut magic oriented race for five(!) years in ESO, suddenly to get turned into a "hybrid" overnight?

You gonna adress that too?