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The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

  • F1thyphil
    F1thyphil
    Soul Shriven
    I am happy to see the skill points are being refunded, but 1 free race change per account is really a fair offer. You are making changes to all the characters on an account, so why not grant 1 race change per character?
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    .
    Edited by Gilvoth on February 6, 2019 11:45PM

  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    High Elf Changes in PTS 4.3.2
    Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

    Allright, so if I get that right, an Altmer who specialises in magicka will restore stamina. And if for some reason someone specialised their Altmer in stamina, they would restore magicka ?

    That's absolutely silly. It's like they're forcing Altmers to become hybrids, without anything else in the game working in favor of hybrids. Personnally, I'll play a hybrid when ALL class and weapon skills will offer both a stamina and a magicka morph... As of today it's pretty inefficient.
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • BlueRaven
    BlueRaven
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    Uryel wrote: »
    High Elf Changes in PTS 4.3.2
    Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

    Allright, so if I get that right, an Altmer who specialises in magicka will restore stamina. And if for some reason someone specialised their Altmer in stamina, they would restore magicka ?

    That's absolutely silly. It's like they're forcing Altmers to become hybrids, without anything else in the game working in favor of hybrids. Personnally, I'll play a hybrid when ALL class and weapon skills will offer both a stamina and a magicka morph... As of today it's pretty inefficient.

    This passive is just weird. What utility does this bring? Allowing mages to regain stamina after a block?
  • spiralvin
    spiralvin
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    High Elf Changes in PTS 4.3.2
    Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

    Allright, so if I get that right, an Altmer who specialises in magicka will restore stamina. And if for some reason someone specialised their Altmer in stamina, they would restore magicka ?

    That's absolutely silly. It's like they're forcing Altmers to become hybrids, without anything else in the game working in favor of hybrids. Personnally, I'll play a hybrid when ALL class and weapon skills will offer both a stamina and a magicka morph... As of today it's pretty inefficient.

    This passive is just weird. What utility does this bring? Allowing mages to regain stamina after a block?

    Altmer Magsorc in AD to another player in Cyrodiil: "Someone! Quick! Give me an orb!!1!1"

    Other dude: "Why?"

    Altmer Magsorc: "So that I can roll away and reposition myself and wait for my Magicka to return before I can do anything else D:"
    Edited by spiralvin on February 7, 2019 2:59AM
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Well shards (the damage one is used more than the resourceful one these days) and orbs restore the highest resource. So if you needed your lowest resource and you weren’t getting it through synergies then Altmer will get it through their racial passive. The only time this comes up for me is when I’m tanking and I keep getting filled on my highest resource (usually stamina) but I need some help on my lowest so I can apply buffs or ranged taunt (magicka only).
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks

    CP 850 || PC/NA ||
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • MotokoHutt
    MotokoHutt
    Soul Shriven
    I am allot more happy with the direction that the Orc Passives are heading in however I still feel like the dev's at ZOS dont't actually pay attention to the lore at all. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I just want them to preserve the lore.

    Looking from an Orc main player point of view with the Brawny and Unflinhcing Rage passives I would say the second pass is way better then the first, but the Swift Warrior passive is and always has been completely bunk. Since you are trying to push the hybrid play style with the Khajiit and Dunmer racial passives it seems pretty silly to give the same 258 damage amount to 2 diferent races but in 2 halves. Before you say well Orc's get reduced sprint cost and increased sprint speed, ok I get that but this is a great segway to lead me into my lore point.

    You seem to be pushing this narative of Orc's as raging babarians with your statement "their identity as berserkers or shock troops" but Orc's are more a kin to a battlefield Juggernaut. A Orc doesnt run too combat nor do they run away from it, an Orc IS the battle, where they are is where the combat comences. The Swift Warrior passive just makes Orc's into a PvP hit and run guerrilla warfare race which if anything suits the Argonian lore much better if anything. On top of that fact making Orc's faster then by the lore stated the fastest and most nimble race IE the khajiit to quote a famous youtuber "makes no god damn sense".

    Look Zos, let me real talk you here. Your developing a game that already has an established lore, your not making some brand new game where you can just make the lore as you go along because THIS is an elder scrolls game. So please stop pushing this Orc supposed berserker identity, just because someone can go into a berserker rage does not make them a berserker. Nord's are known for going into drunken stoopers but does that mean there racial identity should be that there all alchoholic's ? Should we now force all Nord players to use the drunken personality ? What your doing ZOS is literally taking the stereotype propagated by other races and making it the "racial identity". Does that mean we shoud now make Argonians racials completely based around being slaves? Or should we make Khajiit racials completely based around being drugged out merchants? You see where I am going with this? The berserker rage is just 1 small part of the Orcish strongsuit, NOT a racial identity. It would be more apropriate to make "Berserker Rage" the passive instead of "Swift Warrior" and make that 1 passive reflect that part of the Orc race.

    Honestly I would be happy for you to take our Orc sprint bonus away and give it to khajiit's, obviously not all orc's may share that sentiment but I come from a lore perspective. I am not sure any khajiit would complain about actually being the fastest race in ESO like they should be ether. However that is all based on IF Orc's got something of equal value in return. Something that actually suits our core racial mantra as the pariah folk hell bent on carving out our own lores and way of life in an unacepting world. I also think you giving us extra weapon damage is cool and all, but I think your taking this berserker thing in the wrong direction. wouldnt it make much more sense for Orc's to get more damage when taking damage or some interesting racial mechanic ? just a thought.

    So TLDR: I like the new passive changes, however I still think your missing the ball lore wise. Also, please junk Swift Warrior and give us something actually new and interesting.
    Edited by MotokoHutt on February 7, 2019 5:56PM
  • Deathlord92
    I still like the idea of morphing racial passives I love what you guys are doing but I love my Breton stamblade and I’m only ever gonna play Breton stamblade if I play anything else it will be Breton stam build I tried magblade I suck at it also really hard to survive on pls consider the idea 😊
  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    MotokoHutt wrote: »
    Your developing a game that already has an established lore, your not making some brand new game where you can just make the lore as you go along because THIS is an elder scrolls game. So please stop pushing this Orc supposed berserker identity, just because someone can go into a berserker rage does not make them a berserker. Nord's are known for going into drunken stoopers but does that mean there racial identity should be that there all alchoholic's ? Should we now force all Nord players to use the drunken personality ? What your doing ZOS is literally taking the stereotype propagated by other races and making it the "racial identity". Does that mean we shoud now make Argonians racials completely based around being slaves? Or should we make Khajiit racials completely based around being drugged out merchants? You see where I am going with this?

    I'd say, we're going to the point where Bosmers are hunters so they should detect hidden stuff even though said hidden stuff doesn't even exist in the game, and make them as stealthy as Orcs or Nords, because obviously the race that has been the stealthiest both in lore and previous game is suddenly not supposed to be stealthy at all. Also, the hunter stereotype is all wrong, as the hunter is hidden and the prey isn't.

    We're in the same boat, bro.

    I tried magblade I suck at it also really hard to survive on

    Not the best place to discuss it, but if you find it hard to survive as a Breton magblade, there is something you're doing wrong. Magblade has TONS of survival tools, and Bretons have the highest magicka sustain of the game, so you're never going to run out of magicka to use those tools that keep you alive. Also, IIRC, you're also a vampire, which means you litterally have skills to suck the life out of enemies to replenish your own. Top that with a set that enhances sustain and survival, like the Withered hand set, and you're pretty much going to run laughing into a pack of mobs, and then into the next, and then into the next.

    That's what my Dunmer Mablade vampire does, anyway. And just for the added weirdness, she uses a Nirnhoned restoration staff as her main offensive weapon. Her DPS is really sub-par, but she's unstopable, since even charging her attacks to refill magicka will also heal her slightly.

    If that is of interest to you, send me a private message, so I don't derail this thread any further, and I'll tell you what skills and gear shes uses :)
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • Deathlord92
    Plus I been playing stamblade since co another reason I struggled so much on magblade
    Uryel wrote: »
    MotokoHutt wrote: »
    Your developing a game that already has an established lore, your not making some brand new game where you can just make the lore as you go along because THIS is an elder scrolls game. So please stop pushing this Orc supposed berserker identity, just because someone can go into a berserker rage does not make them a berserker. Nord's are known for going into drunken stoopers but does that mean there racial identity should be that there all alchoholic's ? Should we now force all Nord players to use the drunken personality ? What your doing ZOS is literally taking the stereotype propagated by other races and making it the "racial identity". Does that mean we shoud now make Argonians racials completely based around being slaves? Or should we make Khajiit racials completely based around being drugged out merchants? You see where I am going with this?

    I'd say, we're going to the point where Bosmers are hunters so they should detect hidden stuff even though said hidden stuff doesn't even exist in the game, and make them as stealthy as Orcs or Nords, because obviously the race that has been the stealthiest both in lore and previous game is suddenly not supposed to be stealthy at all. Also, the hunter stereotype is all wrong, as the hunter is hidden and the prey isn't.

    We're in the same boat, bro.

    I tried magblade I suck at it also really hard to survive on

    Not the best place to discuss it, but if you find it hard to survive as a Breton magblade, there is something you're doing wrong. Magblade has TONS of survival tools, and Bretons have the highest magicka sustain of the game, so you're never going to run out of magicka to use those tools that keep you alive. Also, IIRC, you're also a vampire, which means you litterally have skills to suck the life out of enemies to replenish your own. Top that with a set that enhances sustain and survival, like the Withered hand set, and you're pretty much going to run laughing into a pack of mobs, and then into the next, and then into the next.

    That's what my Dunmer Mablade vampire does, anyway. And just for the added weirdness, she uses a Nirnhoned restoration staff as her main offensive weapon. Her DPS is really sub-par, but she's unstopable, since even charging her attacks to refill magicka will also heal her slightly.

    If that is of interest to you, send me a private message, so I don't derail this thread any further, and I'll tell you what skills and gear shes uses :)
    Thx m8 I like add in from a pvp point view I like pvp as much as pve my damage awesome my sustain absolutely 100% no problem it’s when I get group players on me or I’m against a really good stamplar on a stamblade I shred esy look at my yt on a magblade I’m just dead very fast
  • IV_Deity
    IV_Deity
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    Redguard


    [*]Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%.


    Ummm....weapon abilities??? Really?? I'm not a bow user, so now I just lost 9 percent stamina recovery and have a useless passive. Thanks a lot. Please revert this, I'd rather have some overall sustain.
    Xbox One NA/AD
  • Wolfchild07
    Wolfchild07
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    IV_Deity wrote: »

    Redguard


    [*]Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Weapon abilities by 8%.


    Ummm....weapon abilities??? Really?? I'm not a bow user, so now I just lost 9 percent stamina recovery and have a useless passive. Thanks a lot. Please revert this, I'd rather have some overall sustain.

    It's a nerf to werewolves also. Both weapon ability and class ability passives are.
    *Changes into a werewolf* Arrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! *Changes back* Ah, crap!
  • lokulin
    lokulin
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    High Elf Changes in PTS 4.3.2
    Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

    Allright, so if I get that right, an Altmer who specialises in magicka will restore stamina. And if for some reason someone specialised their Altmer in stamina, they would restore magicka ?

    That's absolutely silly. It's like they're forcing Altmers to become hybrids, without anything else in the game working in favor of hybrids. Personnally, I'll play a hybrid when ALL class and weapon skills will offer both a stamina and a magicka morph... As of today it's pretty inefficient.

    This passive is just weird. What utility does this bring? Allowing mages to regain stamina after a block?

    I think they want force altmer sorcs to use the crappy dark deal skill as a sustain mechanism. I can't think of anything else. It would be fine if the skill was uninterruptible instant cast like other classes have.
    I've hidden your signature.
  • method__01
    method__01
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    any of the "developer" team can log in Cyro now and tell us if he can weapon swap
    than come here and explain to us scrubs,how he will roll dodge,fire bow and then run all this in 1 sec
    famous quotes: "it's RNG"
    Vasanha: This one hears nothing.Sees nothing.This one only sweeps.
    PS4/ PC EU
  • Deathlord92
    peacenote wrote: »
    This is a scenario where I think both the positive and negative feedback all contain correct perspectives that need to be considered before moving forward.

    Just two examples:

    Pretty damn good changes, bud. People haven't realized yet how Dunmer is, perhaps, the most versatile race out there. Argonians will still be great as healers or tanks. Khajiit will now cater to PVP, PVE, and (ironically) casual RPers. This, all the while, allows people to still min/max their characters to be higher DPS/Tank/Healer builds with Altmer, Breton, Redguard, Orc, Imperial, Bosmer, and Nord.
    Inig0 wrote: »
    ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

    You are directly costing your player base money and time.

    The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

    Let's break this down logically for a minute. Most people chose their race (or changed their race) for one of four reasons, or a combination of these:
    1. Lore
    2. Looks
    3. To support a *specific* build or play style [priority: more niche]
    4. To support playing *multiple* build or play styles [priority: less niche]
    NONE of these reasons are an "incorrect" reason to play a race, but in order for race changes to result in a happy player base, they need to be done in such a way that the initial reason we chose a race isn't significantly impacted. Changing passives to support, say, #4, when we've had years of being able to design characters for #3, is problematic. If we were allowed to do #3, this is giving us less freedom than before, not more.

    Why? Because gear, CP points, builds, etc. can all be changed relatively easily in game, and all of those choices are or can be essentially invisible to the identity of your character given the costumes, dye, and outfit system. However race can't be changed without spending crowns and it can drastically effect the way you look. Feeling like you HAVE to pay for a race change, or feeling like you HAVE to change the look of your character, is going to result in a lot of people feeling like the game is less fun than before these changes went into effect. Myself included. This is much different than having a set be nerfed equally for everyone, or even a class ability changed. With this, some people chose to be Khajiit or Bosmer or High Elf (or whatever) for a reason that will no longer exist, and a tough decision ahead, while others will completely benefit and have their specific play style enhanced. This will not feel fair or balanced; this will feel frustrating.

    Most people asking for race balances, I think, are asking for them because they are unhappy with certain races being BiS for certain things. I also think a lot of people are saying the race changes are good or bad because they have a belief that racial passives should support one of the four reasons above, but aren't thinking of the other scenarios.

    I personally have 10 characters that were chosen either to prioritize #3 first and #2 second or, sometimes I'd prioritize #2 first and #3 second.

    Conclusion: Given the fact that ESO has been around for a long time, a solution that's good for both longtime players and new players needs to be implemented. Right now it's all over the map with feedback because these balance changes do not really work for some of the reasons a race was originally chosen, and one token isn't going to fix that.

    What I'd like to see is a Racial Passives skill area where ALL of the passives are available, but you can only choose three or four regardless of how many skill points you have. Some restrictions could still apply. Maybe, for example, only Khajiit or Bosmer can pick sneak passives, or maybe certain passives conflict with each other and can't both be chosen. Leave some kind of lore special-ness while avoiding a sledgehammer for people who chose the old passives carefully. If I chose my Khajiit for the extra damage in stealth, I can still pick that. If I chose Argonian for the self-healing, I can still pick that.

    Basically, add some of these new passives that people like, allow the selection of the old ones that are unique, phase out old ones that are truly replaced with new ones (such as Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% becomes Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%) so people don't accidentally nerf themselves, and allow more of the passives to be applied to more of the races so "BiS Redguard for Stam" is a thing of the past.

    Also, while you're at it, get rid of the "Increases the experience gain with XXX" passives which only give value when you are first leveling, if that, and keep a few lore-friendly passives that do stay with each race which generally don't impact combat. Fall damage, swim speed, extra time on food or drink buffs... that stuff isn't game breaking but could feel like a nice little "bonus" supporting why a race is still special.

    This could be Phase 1. Then some of the choices could be reduced or streamlined as certain passives are never used and the community slowly gets used to separating combat benefits from the old style baked in racial passives.
    I would so love to have stam racial passives for my Breton stamblade this would make me very happy something I have wanted for long time please consider it zos I know it’s hard to please everyone
  • DragonMind1st
    DragonMind1st
    Soul Shriven
    I like to play Argonians because I like reptiles, dragons mostly.

    When I first heard they would be making race changes I was like a kid excitedly thinking "This is going to be interesting to see how they will change things...", it was NOT!

    I would say the changes to the Argonians are far from positive in my opinion, they nerfed healing passive greatly ...no I actually do not run a healing build which is why it is a nerf, since they removed the incoming heal bonus from that passive.

    ...and then I thought, okay, maybe we will get away with that awful potion gulping mechanic and get something better, because I never had the use for additionally healing or Mag/Stam recovery when gulping a potion. I like to make builds that don't rely on gulping potions, which just makes this more awful ...if possible. Nope did get lucky to have that one changed.

    I do agree with peacenotes post #1704 above, it would be nice if the racials was a bit more flexible, not super broad, but enough that you more likely could tailor it to the build you were making or already have(for existing characters) ...likely with morphs, since they already got that mechanic in it, but there is other ways this could be done as well.

    Edited by DragonMind1st on February 10, 2019 8:54PM
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