Can we please have black hair for altmer? Because now that dunmer is dead for magic DPS I will have to change my dunmer to an altmer, and he just won't look very good without black hair. PLEASE consider, it cannot be that hard to replace one of their blonds with black.

Playnice wrote: »

High Elf will be an only choice of magicka users next patch.

- Dark Elf is not great and any one thing which kills the hardcore players. No good reason to choose this one over High Elf.

- Argonian does not offer any meaningful advantages over other classes so total RIP there. High Elf is better here.

- Breton can sustain like a mother but will never compete in damage. The change is actually a damage nerf if you do the math. High Elf is still better here.

High Elf and Redguard are the baseline they need to bring the other Races to now. High Elf looks like a lot of fun now so I hope they don't just nerf High Elf if they decide to make any adjustments and instead bring more damage or sustain buffs to the rest.

Twohothardware wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

On the Stamina side the Redguard changes definitely need to be looked at again and this time put your glasses on.

The meta for builds in both PvE and PvP is running high damage and a lower Recovery stat. Redguard has been the #1 choice by far for PvE Stamina builds for forever now because of the strong passive sustain from Adrenaline that doesn't require you to have any Recovery stat at all to benefit. That allows you to stack more damage for higher DPS and requires fewer heavy attacks in your rotation to sustain.

And your fix for this is to now change Redguards 9% Recovery bonus to 8% cost reduction which further ignores any need for a Recovery stat and then buff Adrenaline on top of it? This will be even more imbalanced in PvE and be the new replacement for where Argonian is now for OP in PvP.

If Redguard is going to have noticeably better sustain than the other Races then at least drop the max stamina to 1000, especially considering you dropped Orc max stamina to only 500 when you gave them passive sustain.

The 8% cost reduction is only to weapon abilities. Orcs also have a weapon damage passive which is already better than 2k stam. If you look at bosmer, the 258 regen is better than adrenline rush due to regen multipliers while still having the same stam as redguard, having movement speed after dodging and poison resists.

The 3 races are overall balanced

A VERY marginal damage advantage from Orc doesn't translate to higher DPS if Redguard has superior sustain and that's the point that ZOS keeps missing. Argonian and Redguard aren't OP right now because of 3% Magicka or 10% Stamina, they are OP because of the Resourceful passive and the Adrenaline passive giving at least twice the effective sustain as other Races because low Stam Recovery builds are the Meta. It doesn't matter how much damage you deal, if you don't have any Stamina you can't cast a skill.

Imperial and Nord still have no Stam Recovery or Cost reduction bonuses outside of Imperials measly 5% block cost reduction and Khajiit's Recovery is even weaker now than it was before because they're splitting it between Stamina and Magicka.

75 regen on a low regen build is actually a buff. Dont forget that 75 regen also benefits from cp, medium armor, class passives, etc.

Here are some numbers:

512 base regen * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor + .1 old khajiit +.2 potion) = 881 regen

(512 base regen + 75 khajiit) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor +.2 potion) = 951 regen

With dubious

(512 base regen + 312) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor + .1 old khajiit +.2 potion) = 1417 regen

(512 base regen + 75 khajiit + 312 dubious) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor +.2 potion) = 1456 regen

You can adjust these numbers for cp, pieces of med armor and add in class passives.


Bosmer's stam regen flat value translates to signficiantly greater values than redguard adreniline rush under the same conditions.

(258 bosmer) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor +.2 potion) = 417 regen

(258 bosmer) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor +.2 potion +.1 relentless + .15 nb +.1 vamp) = 508 regen

(312 dubious + 258 bosmer) * (1 + .14 cp + .28 med armor +.2 potion) = 923 regen


Orc has a stam/hp adrenline rush like passive, sprint cost reduction and sprint movement speed and damage & health.

Imperial and nord are under a different category however and seem like they are built for tanking with some stats used for dmg.

Was really hoping for something that wouldn't keep us race locked to Mag or Stam. Still stuck with the same meta's with the exception of boots (Argonians) which seem are now designated to healers.

TL/DR: Epic Fail.

The wall of text below is only for (endgame) pve.

Imo the target audience caring for racial passives r minmaxers or progressive raiders. Changing racials the way u r planning to do, smells like a try to force those ppl into buying racechangers or rerolling their toons.
U said the idea was making more than one race viable for certain roles while sticking to lore. There is no "viable" on the leaderboards, theres just the meta.
There might be exceptions, but the majority of ppl caring for lore and immersion dont give a damn about combateffectiveness of racial passives and will happily continue to play their nord mage, bosmer healer and altmer warrior whatever the racials r or become.

with those changes:
Argonians will (still) be sustain beasts with potion speed glyphs and tripots in "hybrid" specs that benefit from magicka and stamina sustain equally (tanks). In that single setup, they r average double as good as any other race. However, they r not good for anything else. The nerf to the potion passive makes running 3 potion glyphs equally to running 3 regen glyphs when only one pool is needed. w/o potion glyphs, their sustain is not on par with what the topdogs get and they do not get any cool perks for other roles. Imperials and Nords get intresting perks for tanks aswell, but r so far behind in sustain that it's a nobrainer. U could say speed for dodge on bosmer is an op tanking perk (combined with hasty retreat), but while the perk would make for a great kiting spec, groups usually hate it when bosses move around.

As far as DDs go, pure dmg wise khajiit is the topdog for both magicka and stamina, given u get raidbuffs and high enough critical damage. w/o any investment into crit dmg and the need to bring your own penetration, altmer would be the one and only choice for magicka dd.
For selfbuffed stamina dds there is actually a spectrum for "slightly less dmg and slightly more sustain" going dunmer -> khajiit -> orc with a hard stop at redguard with a lot less dmg and comparable godlike sustain.

For healers its #1 altmer with a very lorefirendly not-as-good very close second place breton. surprisingly far off, but still place 3: khajiit, well fits the next chapter i guess.

True, there now is between 2 and 4 races that have good perks for a certain role. There is still a one-and-only meta race for every role. And theres still way to much good-for-nothing races with limiting perks getting outshined by other races in their one-trick-pony area.


Some races get "specials" that r adapted from 5 piece boni. Those r not in line. If u rate a 5pc being worth three 2-4pcs (assuming every 5 piece is equally good) u end up with:

Spellcharge: 5% dmg reduction while casting/channeling. That is 1/3 of Cyro Light 5pc -> 1 point.
Magicka Mastery: 7% cheaper magicka skills. That is 87,5% seducers -> 2,63 points.
Exhilaration: Weapon Abilities 8% cheaper. Closest 5pc would be eyes of mara -> 2 points.
Stallward: 5 ulti/10 secs -> 1/2 Werewolf hide -> 1.5 points.
Hunters Eye: Kinda puzzler: 70% hasty retreat, around 50% strength of VO but can stack with them. Would put it at 2, prolly an 8 in pvp for dodgemonkeys.
And at last: Red Diamond, ppl mentioned that health regen is useless right? if u break it down u get 258 health regen. the other part, closest set i could find would be alteration mastery at strength 83% -> 2.5 points.

Thing is, the total "points per race" r somewhat balanced (5,23 ~ 7,98), but the "usefull points per role" r between 0 and 6,36. if u than sum those up to "usefull points over all roles" (tank, healer, sDD, mDD) u end up with a range from 7,27 (Orc) up to 16,46 (Altmer).
This doesnt look like balance anymore and even "viable" becomes a stretch. (rank 9 with 7,8 on p2wimperial, lol)
sidenote: max health boni on sets give more points than mag and stam, this is not factored in currently, thus max health passives result in lower "set-points".

While the base idea with the rating by setboni is a good approach: even tho they r all distributed as 2-4pcs: 129 health regen, 4% crit, 4% more healing taken/done and 1096 magicka r far from being equally powerfull or usefull.
If u r actually trying to increase viability for roles, first step would be to replace "1096 Magicka" and "1096 Stamina" with "1096 of higher pool". That way, every race would get atleast a stat stick thats useful for any role.

With those changes "1096 Magicka" and "1096 Stamina" set stats will be 10% worse due to the lack of the racial passive resources increase. Therefore people will always try to get sets that have either spell damage or crit. "1096 Magicka" and "1096 Stamina" were a bit worse than the other two offensive stats and with those racial changes they will be even 10% worser.

For example if you run necropotance that is roughly 6500 magicka unbuffed which previously got buffed afterwards by the 10% max magicka racial passive. Now it wont. Therefore people will loose around 650 magicka only from this set which is kind of a lot.

Currently on live game I have a pet sorc with 55 500 magicka. When I removed the 10% racial max magicka passive it went down to 50 700. I don't know how much magicka people will have if you add the new 2000 unbuffed magicka passive but it sure wont be the same amount as before.

If they don't make any adjustments the most optimal builds will be to have as low magicka as possible and as much spell damage or crit as possible to get the most out of the gear and passives.

I get all the combat arguments. PvE, PvP, whatever. But as someone who really, really enjoys the gameplay of being a sticky-fingered rogue type, suddenly losing the reduced stealth detection on wood elves sucks. And I'm a role player so the race change token is meaningless to me. My character isn't just going to sprout ears and a tail.

Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.


^^^^^^^^^^^^so just as we finally hit good sustain you're gonna nerf the entire magicka pool for dragonkights, you guys and the people coming up with these ideas are pure ***. Keep this kind of crap up and people are gonna find other games to play. I mean christ fallout 76 is a joke and you guys keep with the bad decisions. What gives? Do you even game?

SturgeHammer wrote: »

Argonian changes were kind of what I expected, but I would have preferred the argonian resistance passive to be a little more interesting. If it has to be a damage type resist, then poison resist is probably more useful than disease. Personally, I think something unique like a small bleed damage % resist would be more exciting.

Hell give Dunmer a small resistance to bleed (since they're supposed to be able to survive the harshest stuff). That might help with the fact that they're supposed to be a "hybrid" race and that bleeds effect all builds.

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Are all of the active regen passives like the altmers, redguards, and orcs affected by battle spirit? If so, the orc one is super weak. Will be 140 every 4 seconds after the reduction...

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

Raudgrani wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Why don't the conversions from percentage resource to static amount scale the same. 10% is 2000, yet 9% is 1000? etc. Overall nerfs to max health and health regen builds. Will be interesting to see how these align with Necromancer. Will be interesting to see if Percentage stat/regen increase class and armor passives stay the same.

High Elf - huge buff. Just wow for Templar with Cyrodill's light, channeling Mist form. Probably best healer, dps magicka race.
Argonian - nerf
WoodElf - probably a buff, only good for stam.
Breton - huge buff. New magicka DK race.
DE - max staf nerf, still best hybrid race
Imperial - meh, max health nerf.
Khajit - big buff. viable as magicka now.
Nord - not sure, nerf to rugged, but Ult regen might be best passive. Nord Wardens will spam ults.
Orc - huge buff.
Redguard - huge buff

A dazzling ulti generation up to 30 ulti per minute, that's game changing! Or... was it?

combine that with Wardens ulti generation and that is a lot

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.