Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

grannas211

Il3rotherhood wrote: »

Some of these seem pretty inconsistant... for exemple:

Wood elves previously had a 6% max stamina increase. Now, it will be a 2000 max stamina increase.
Breton previously had a 10% max magicka increase. Now, it will also be a 2000 max magicka increase..!
High elves previously had a 10% max magicka increase. Now, it will also be a 2000 max magicka increase..!

I mean... why ? this is really inconsistent.

Also, lore wise and with the dev comment you put under Breton, they should clearly have the highest base magicka pool of all races. So why do they have the exact same bonus than Altmer ? And why did you nerf the spell resistance ? they are not even more resistant to spells than Nords..! this does not make any sense

In games with boosts to their Max Magicka which is the last three games from Bethesda, High Elves have always had a bigger increase. Skyrim Bretons didnt even get a boost, just the spell resistance. So following you, High Elves plus 2000, Bretons plus 1500.

Anoregon

I think there are two underlying facts that ZOS needs to accept and address that these changes don't really impact:

1 - People want to play their favorite race as any role they want without it feeling like an explicitly "wrong" choice due to racial traits

2- Multiple game systems make hybrid builds non-viable at a high level, so any tweaks that promote that style of gameplay are largely not going to be very worthwhile.

Point 1 is still a serious issue when looking at most races, especially Imperial and Argonian. Point two is less of an issue overall but definitely key for Dunmer (and Khajit to a lesser extent). There are multiple ways to change racial bonuses soa s to alleviate these issues, and there are at least signs of moving in the right direction here, but it still misses the mark overall.

KuroDark

Also why should all Breton players be magicka based? There are Breton knights in heavy armour with swords seen all the time in the game.

AbbyMeowCat

Race Choice for Tanking

I am happy with changes as a tank player and because lore-wise all races will now be able to tank uniquely in various own styles and possibilities:

- Dark Elf in my opinion will be the ideal race for my playstyle as I play a warrior hybrid tank in PvE and PvP and I play mostly 4-man content. I love the change to increase max health as Dark Elves were also great resilient hybrid warrior spellswords in the lore and not only dedicated to magic, making them great hybrid warriors. They will have strong Coagulating Blood and Vigor heals with the weapon and spell damage and a tri-stat pool. Very nice change for me.

- High Elf will be a great tank class with Meditate and Temporal Guard slotted with that reduced damage channel racial. I like that they can gain resources back using any skill every few seconds. High Elves in Skyrim were also Thalmor warriors and using a magicka skill and gaining back stamina reflects their prowess in the battlefield. High Elves will also be viable stamina characters that use magicka buffs like igneous shields or skills for extra stamina and classes that do not have Earthen Heart stamina passive return. I will most definitely also play High Elf Tank next patch.

- Wood Elf honestly does not need the reduced fall damage but I like their new roll dodge speed boost. They will make the ideal tank with well-fitted gear for DLC dungeons and vBRP that involve a lot of roll dodging and 1-shot mechanics to move to safer areas quickly. They can make great kite tanks too that move around without having to stand still and take damage. I think this will also help dps characters whether magicka or stamina in the same areas that involve a lot of dodging and avoiding AoEs. Very smart change and I am very happy with this but Bosmer are also known for their spinners in lore. No magicka benefit like Khajiit?

- Khajiit is the way ZoS should have made them a long time ago. They will be very good all rounder sustain tanks. Khajiit were also great spellcasters back in Skyrim and they are supposed to be very versatile characters. I am very happy with this. My nightblade tank will have strong crit heals from Dark Cloak and Vigor.

- Argonians ahhh finally the nerf. The most common and broken tank race. They are a good beginner race for tanking but they had way too many good racials and almost every tank was an Argonian. This patch will see tanks of different races!

- Orcs in Skyrim had Berserker Rage. Doing a melee attack should heal and regain stamina. This is a very good upgrade for warrior-tank players. I am very happy with this and I think they will be warrior tanks that can tank and fight and contribute with dual wield and 2h offbar, not only easy mode permablocking and war horn. They will be on par with Redguard for Stamina characters.

- Redguards will make amazing and great defensive tanks this patch with cheaper Pierce Armor and Heroic slash and will have great stamina sustain to block more after doing a heavy attack. This should have been the racial benefit a long time ago as they are warriors. I feel tanks will benefit from Master One Hand Shield and Knight Errant sets as well. They have no weapon damage and health buff due to their stamina regen and sustain which is fair in comparison with other races.

- Imperials will be the new permablock. Sadly nothing interesting because Imperials also had great battlemages and magic sorcerers like Abnur Tharn in the Elder Scrolls lore.

- Bretons, good-good buff for tanking. Cheaper costs and recovery, still having more resistant shield casts and possible permablock ice staff tanking with cheaper magicka cost! Reflects their half-elven blood nature. I am happy with this change for my Breton Templar Tank!

- Nords. Great change for tanking with that Ulti Generation passive and resistance upgrade but sad that the changes only are catered to tanking and not a damage perspective as in Skyrim, Nords were brave and great warriors that kill and fight. They will however be a strong PvP race.

Good and unique changes for tanking for all races. To Oblivion with Argonians! Thank you, good job! Looking forward to this!

Raudgrani

nouagea wrote: »

All I'm saying is that we get 1 race AND name change token per account (I'd say per character but I don't think ZOS would let it slide) to maintain the lore continuity of naming conventions. This will be one hell of a cash-grab by ZOS if they think some of us are going to pay 35 bucks for race and name changes per how ever many toons might be changed.

[snip] I'm more like "How can we avoid all this", instead of thinking of a financial way to make all my stamina toons Redguard, if I want to keep them...

[edited for inappropriate content]

The_Yellow_King

MakoRuu wrote: »

As a StamDK Orc, I am happy now.

I made my character on launch day, and I've been sticking with him through everything. Even if I haven't played ESO every day since then, I always come back to it. It's good to be viable again.

Same exact thing here haha. Although pvp they are nice because of health recovery combined with troll king. I'm not sure if this is a pvp nerf or not.

Carbonised

@ZOS_Gilliam

You really need to do some more explaining regarding the Dunmer changes. How can it possibly be justified to pull down Dunmers from a shared 1st place for mag specs along with Altmers, to now, at best, a 4th place behind Altmers, Bretons and Khajiit?

Arguably Dunmer is now converted from a predomitably magicka oriented race to a primarily stamina oriented race. Despite several of us having invested years and years in our Dunmer magdks and other mag specs.

Dunmer have not been "balanced" like altmer have, or bretons, or all other races. Dunmer have been completely swapped around from a mag race to a stam one, or even worse, a "hybrid" one that has no place whatsoever in this min/max meta that you yourselves have created.

You have absolutely no respect for the people who invested in their Dunmer magicka specs, and who now will either be forced to race change and thus throw away all lore investment in their race, appearance and flavour - or stick with a very sub-par 4th place race and gimping themselves and get refused for any type of progressive content.

SewerFairy

What are you doing to Khajiit??? Make the stats so low, that they don't fit for stam or magicka builds???
Release a Elsweyr-Chapter and make Khajiit unplayable

Raudgrani

katorga wrote: »

Why don't the conversions from percentage resource to static amount scale the same. 10% is 2000, yet 9% is 1000? etc. Overall nerfs to max health and health regen builds. Will be interesting to see how these align with Necromancer. Will be interesting to see if Percentage stat/regen increase class and armor passives stay the same.

High Elf - huge buff. Just wow for Templar with Cyrodill's light, channeling Mist form. Probably best healer, dps magicka race.
Argonian - nerf
WoodElf - probably a buff, only good for stam.
Breton - huge buff. New magicka DK race.
DE - max staf nerf, still best hybrid race
Imperial - meh, max health nerf.
Khajit - big buff. viable as magicka now.
Nord - not sure, nerf to rugged, but Ult regen might be best passive. Nord Wardens will spam ults.
Orc - huge buff.
Redguard - huge buff

A dazzling ulti generation up to 30 ulti per minute, that's game changing! Or... was it?

automatony

Carbonised wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

Arguably Dunmer is now converted from a predomitably magicka oriented race to a primarily stamina oriented race.

I dont see this at all, what I see is a race that was handicapped for PVP and forced into a fire mage role which in PVP does not much. I welcome the opportunity to run an Ice build on my Dunmer in and not be penalized for it in my passives.

The extra Stamina is just extra roll dodges, breakfrees, and Vigors which I also welcome.

And hey I may just try out a hybrid Stampire build. The future is so bright.

Sabretusks

It seems like my Orc tanks are going to be taking a hit with the Brawny passive rework. I'm not sure +500 Health/Stamina is enough to compensate for the 6% loss. Just looking at the numbers for just about every other class, it should probably be raised.

Altmer went from 10% max Magicka to +2000 Magicka.
Argonian went from 9% max Health to +1000 Health.
Bosmer went from 6% max Stamina to +2000 Stamina.
Breton went from 10% max Magicka to +2000 Magicka.
Dunmer went from 6% max Magicka/Stamina to +1250 Magicka/Stamina.
Imperial went from 12% max Health to +2000 Health and 10% max Stamina to +2000 Stamina.
Nords went from 6% max Stamina to +1500 Stamina.
Redguard went from 10% max Stamina to +2000 Stamina.

Hopefully this gets bumped up a bit.

Carbonised

automatony wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

Arguably Dunmer is now converted from a predomitably magicka oriented race to a primarily stamina oriented race.

I dont see this at all, what I see is a race that was handicapped for PVP and forced into a fire mage role which in PVP does not much. I welcome the opportunity to run an Ice build on my Dunmer in and not be penalized for it in my passives.

The extra Stamina is just extra roll dodges, breakfrees, and Vigors which I also welcome.

And hey I may just try out a hybrid Stampire build. The future is so bright.

Sorry but you seem to be quite clueless here. Dunmer were perfectly viable on live with both frost and shock, did you even read the passive? Sure, rejoice at playing an ice mage after the change, and know that all altmers, bretons and khajiit will do it better than you ever can.
Dunmer has never been handicapped for pvp, that's about the most clueless thing i have ever heard, but certainly dunmers are going to be very handicapped in both pve and pvp after the change, if you stick with any type of magicka spec.

ShadowHvo

While I love these changes as a very Dunmer focused player, I do believe that its a shame that Altmer seems to be reigning far supreme over all else. I definitely think that Altmer might need to be taken down a notch to allow both Breton, Khajiit and Dunmer to actually compare in DPS potential.

Though, again while I generally love these changes wholeheartly, you're still limiting the player choice and freedom severely in terms of endgame content, which currently is pretty hard as it is. Wouldn't it be more beneifical to include some sort of "Background" system for each race, that would determin the passives you get? That way everyone could tailor their race to their given playstyle, regardless of combatitive role.

Beyond that... yeah, please buff the less potent races like Breton, Imperial and Nord, while balancing out the Altmer a bit better in particular. Having one nr 1. race that is so far superior to anything else in a magicka category is rather dishearting.

automatony

Carbonised wrote: »

Sorry but you seem to be quite clueless here.

So aggro. And wrong.

ShadowHvo

Carbonised wrote: »

Dunmer has never been handicapped for pvp, that's about the most clueless thing i have ever heard, but certainly dunmers are going to be very handicapped in both pve and pvp after the change, if you stick with any type of magicka spec.

You're aware that you're talking about 750 magicka (and thus in addition 75 spell power) in difference right?

Thats really not that crazy significant. Dunmer allows you to break free, roll dodge, block and interrupt - all essential elements of gameplay in endgame content better than the Altmer with this nice balancing of the Dunmer racials.

Plus... we're getting a resistance buff to the nr 1. widely used element in this game: Fire, as well as immunity to its status effect. Thats a sweet buff, even more so vampires too.

Its not doom and gloom for the Dunmer with these changes, never have and never will be.

EDIT: I still think that it sucks however, that Altmer clearly is -better- in the magicka department. But... come on, lets not pretend that its so significant that we no longer can reach our 50k+ numbers.

KuroDark

Currently there's no reason to choose any other magicka DPS race than Altmer. Previously Dunmer and Altmer were mostly the same, Dunmer having a little more damage and less sustain. And now Altmer has the same damage (or even more because of larger recource pool) and way better sustain.

pocketdefender

I thought the purpose of these changes was to add versatility to each race's strengths... but instead, Bosmer has just been further pushed into a PvP Stamblade niche.

Carbonised

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Dunmer has never been handicapped for pvp, that's about the most clueless thing i have ever heard, but certainly dunmers are going to be very handicapped in both pve and pvp after the change, if you stick with any type of magicka spec.

You're aware that you're talking about 750 magicka (and thus in addition 75 spell power) in difference right?

Thats really not that crazy significant. Dunmer allows you to break free, roll dodge, block and interrupt - all essential elements of gameplay in endgame content better than the Altmer with this nice balancing of the Dunmer racials.

Plus... we're getting a resistance buff to the nr 1. widely used element in this game: Fire, as well as immunity to its status effect. Thats a sweet buff, even more so vampires too.

Its not doom and gloom for the Dunmer with these changes, never have and never will be.

You're completely ignoring the altmer mag regen that comes ON TOP of their increased magicka pool.

And yes, it's shoving dunmers even more into the pigeonhole of having to go vamp to be remotely relevant. Well some of us don't want to ruin our character's appearance and flavour feel with vampirism, as a pretty much forced choice, to not be overly gimped.

The numbers have already been crushed, Dunmer is now one of the better stamina races and below both altmer, bretons and khajiit as a mag race. It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

gamerratic_ESO

Anoregon wrote: »

Honestly I wouldn't hate this, but I think the best option is just to overhaul existing racials so that one of the two options happens:

-All racials have morphs that allow the player to focus on magicka or stam

or

-Most racials are chosen from a unified pool available to all races, with the only traits being locked to race being the more thematic things like swim speed, elemental resists, weapon line XP, and stealth detection.

I understand that it's important to adhere to lore concerns, but the current model is skewed too heavily in that direction to the detriment of just being a satisfying gameplay experience. Every race should be capable of playing every roll without feeling like they are gimping themselves by playing the "wrong" race. I just don't see lore/RP concerns as a good enough justification for reducing player freedom/choice to the degree that the current racial bonus setup does.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Racial Birthright system? Something that balances both Lore and freedom of choice that you mention @ZOS_Gilliam ?

At Level 1 - you receive your Racial Legacy passives. For example...

• High Elf - Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain
• Argonian - Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
• Wood Elf - Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10%
• And so on...

At Level 10 - you receive your Racial Birthright passives.

• Aldmeri Perfection (High Elf) - Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability, once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5%, while you are using a cast time or channel ability.
• One with the Hist (Argonian) - Increases your Healing Done by 4% and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Roots of the Valenwood (Wood Elf) - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• High Rock Ancestry (Breton) - Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
• Will of the Tribunal (Dark Elf) - Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250 and your Max Health by 625.
• Child of the Red Diamond (Imperial) - When you deal Direct Damage, you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.
• Rajhin's Luck (Khajiit) - Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
• Ysgramor's Boon (Nord) - Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
• Malacath's Vengeance (Orc) - Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a Weapon Ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
• Yokuda Heritage (Redguard) - When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

At Level 30 - you receive your first Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of options such as...

• Increase your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Increase your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Increase your Max Health by 2000.
• Increase your Weapon or Spell Damage by 258, whichever is higher.
• Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.
• Increase your Healing Done by 4%.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

At Level 50 - your receive your second Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of new (or previous) options such as...

• Increase your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
• Increase your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
• When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
• Reduces the cost of your Weapon Abilities by 8%.
• Increase your Flame damage by 5% and your Flame Resistance by 2310.
• Increase your Shock damage by 5% and your Shock Resistance by 2310.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

Yes, certain races would still have an edge in certain archetypes. High Elves for magicka dps. Redguard for stamina dps. Argonians for healing. Imperial/Nord for tanking. However, the disparity in creating an Orc magicka dps would not be as significant a dps loss as it is given the current racial passives.

And yes...I do realize that the passives would have to be balanced out to ensure there is no stat bloating...rofl.

Moreover, as with resetting your skill and attribute points, an additional Shrine can be added in the main hubs where players would be able to reset their TWO Divine Blessing passives for a significant cost.

Finally, I feel that this suggestion would give players the freedom to create the characters and character types/roles they want - tank, healer, dps, raiding, pvp, etc. - while hopefully maintaining a balance with the Lore passives.

Please feel free to riff on this!

(Apologies if something like this was already suggested. My eyes started getting blurry 20 pages of forum responses in...rofl)

Darkmage1337

"Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds."

R.I.P. AD Wood Elf Stam NB stealth-sniper.

EDIT: @ZOS_Gilliam you could have at least kept Wood Elves' extra 10% bonus damage that is granted from attacking from stealth, it gave Wood Elves flavor and balance compared to Red Guard's Adrenaline Rush; but, @ZOS_Gilliam I guess you got salty that my NB outmatched yours in Deathmatch on Mor Khazgur months back, so you nerfed me in revenge.
Ahahaha!

Tommy_The_Gun

Argonian
- Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → No changes
- Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
- Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
- Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.

Icarus42

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

https://youtu.be/6SlhFn70N4w

I will stick with my high elf ty and goodnight.

ShadowHvo

Carbonised wrote: »

You're completely ignoring the altmer mag regen that comes ON TOP of their increased magicka pool.

And yes, it's shoving dunmers even more into the pigeonhole of having to go vamp to be remotely relevant. Well some of us don't want to ruin our character's appearance and flavour feel with vampirism, as a pretty much forced choice, to not be overly gimped.

The numbers have already been crushed, Dunmer is now one of the better stamina races and below both altmer, bretons and khajiit as a mag race. It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to get my edit in, in time before your reply.

I agree with you that nobody should be forced into a curseform, however, I still don't think that 75 spell power and 750 magicka as well as a class activation regain is going to completely ruin the DPS potential between Altmer and Dunmer. Certainly, Altmer can figuratively reach the highest DPS, and arguably is the highest - however, lets not even remotely think that it prevents the Dunmer from reaching their crazy 50k+ DPS anyway.

Its not doom and gloom when the changes are as minor as they're. If Altmer had upwards to a 1000+ spell damage and several k's worth of additional max magicka, sure enough, that would make them leagues above. But as it stands, 750 magicka really isn't all that much.

If anything, I think that Altmer should be taken down a notch to allow both Dunmer, Breton and Khajiit to better compare as magicka races, as those are races whom all have quite an affinity for magical arts in their societies. (Despite that not being reflected in prior renditions of the Khajiit racials throughout the TES series)

automatony

Carbonised wrote: »

It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

You can take that as a negative or a positive, it is entirely up to you.

I choose positivity.

Carbonised

automatony wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

You can take that as a negative or a positive, it is entirely up to you.

I choose positivity.

Considering that I have 5 Dunmer mag classes, no, I can't really take that as anything other than a negative. I literally don't care a flying F that their stam spec got buffed. For me, and for anyone else playing Dunmer MagDK or any other Dunmer mag spec, we got shafted. There's no "other way to look at it".

Machete

Bosmer with most stam regen of any race? Sure I'll take it! Though I'm feeling Dunmer spell and weapon damage goes down by half.

Anoregon

gamerratic_ESO wrote: »

Anoregon wrote: »

Honestly I wouldn't hate this, but I think the best option is just to overhaul existing racials so that one of the two options happens:

-All racials have morphs that allow the player to focus on magicka or stam

or

-Most racials are chosen from a unified pool available to all races, with the only traits being locked to race being the more thematic things like swim speed, elemental resists, weapon line XP, and stealth detection.

I understand that it's important to adhere to lore concerns, but the current model is skewed too heavily in that direction to the detriment of just being a satisfying gameplay experience. Every race should be capable of playing every roll without feeling like they are gimping themselves by playing the "wrong" race. I just don't see lore/RP concerns as a good enough justification for reducing player freedom/choice to the degree that the current racial bonus setup does.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Racial Birthright system? Something that balances both Lore and freedom of choice that you mention @ZOS_Gilliam ?

At Level 1 - you receive your Racial Legacy passives. For example...

• High Elf - Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain
• Argonian - Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
• Wood Elf - Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10%
• And so on...

At Level 10 - you receive your Racial Birthright passives.

• Aldmeri Perfection (High Elf) - Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability, once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5%, while you are using a cast time or channel ability.
• One with the Hist (Argonian) - Increases your Healing Done by 4% and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Roots of the Valenwood (Wood Elf) - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• High Rock Ancestry (Breton) - Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
• Will of the Tribunal (Dark Elf) - Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250 and your Max Health by 625.
• Child of the Red Diamond (Imperial) - When you deal Direct Damage, you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.
• Rajhin's Luck (Khajiit) - Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
• Ysgramor's Boon (Nord) - Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
• Malacath's Vengeance (Orc) - Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a Weapon Ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
• Yokuda Heritage (Redguard) - When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

At Level 30 - you receive your first Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of options such as...

• Increase your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Increase your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Increase your Max Health by 2000.
• Increase your Weapon or Spell Damage by 258, whichever is higher.
• Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.
• Increase your Healing Done by 4%.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

At Level 50 - your receive your second Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of new (or previous) options such as...

• Increase your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
• Increase your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
• When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
• Reduces the cost of your Weapon Abilities by 8%.
• Increase your Flame damage by 5% and your Flame Resistance by 2310.
• Increase your Shock damage by 5% and your Shock Resistance by 2310.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

Yes, certain races would still have an edge in certain archetypes. High Elves for magicka dps. Redguard for stamina dps. Argonians for healing. Imperial/Nord for tanking. However, the disparity in creating an Orc magicka dps would not be as significant a dps loss as it is given the current racial passives.

And yes...I do realize that the passives would have to be balanced out to ensure there is no stat bloating...rofl.

Moreover, as with resetting your skill and attribute points, an additional Shrine can be added in the main hubs where players would be able to reset their TWO Divine Blessing passives for a significant cost.

Finally, I feel that this suggestion would give players the freedom to create the characters and character types/roles they want - tank, healer, dps, raiding, pvp, etc. - while hopefully maintaining a balance with the Lore passives.

Please feel free to riff on this!

(Apologies if something like this was already suggested. My eyes started getting blurry 20 pages of forum responses in...rofl)

I'd certainly prefer that to the current system.

susmitds

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.

In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.

Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:



Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.



With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.

Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:



And the other way around:



It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.

KuroDark wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.

Carbonised

susmitds wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.

In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.

Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:



Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.



With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.

Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:



And the other way around:



It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.

KuroDark wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.

And what good is that going to do for one of the most iconic playstyles in this game for years, namely the Dunmer MagDK fire mage?
Dunmer is not -the- best stam race, if you take sustain into consideration Dunmer ends up in 2nd or 3rd place. And once again, I don't give a flying F if they are the supreme OP race for stam builds or not. We made our Dunmer magDKs in a span of 5 years where Dunmer were clearly superior as mag specs and meant to be a mag race. Suddenly changing them to be a stamina oriented race and be clearly a better choice for stam builds than for mag builds is disrespectful to the Dunmer Magicka playerbase.

dragonknightblade

Carbonised wrote: »

Considering that I have 5 Dunmer mag classes

What? Why? Huh?