Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Darkmage1337

"Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds."

R.I.P. AD Wood Elf Stam NB stealth-sniper.

EDIT: @ZOS_Gilliam you could have at least kept Wood Elves' extra 10% bonus damage that is granted from attacking from stealth, it gave Wood Elves flavor and balance compared to Red Guard's Adrenaline Rush; but, @ZOS_Gilliam I guess you got salty that my NB outmatched yours in Deathmatch on Mor Khazgur months back, so you nerfed me in revenge.
Ahahaha!

Tommy_The_Gun

Argonian
- Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → No changes
- Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
- Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
- Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.

Icarus42

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

https://youtu.be/6SlhFn70N4w

I will stick with my high elf ty and goodnight.

ShadowHvo

Carbonised wrote: »

You're completely ignoring the altmer mag regen that comes ON TOP of their increased magicka pool.

And yes, it's shoving dunmers even more into the pigeonhole of having to go vamp to be remotely relevant. Well some of us don't want to ruin our character's appearance and flavour feel with vampirism, as a pretty much forced choice, to not be overly gimped.

The numbers have already been crushed, Dunmer is now one of the better stamina races and below both altmer, bretons and khajiit as a mag race. It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

Unfortunately I didn't manage to get my edit in, in time before your reply.

I agree with you that nobody should be forced into a curseform, however, I still don't think that 75 spell power and 750 magicka as well as a class activation regain is going to completely ruin the DPS potential between Altmer and Dunmer. Certainly, Altmer can figuratively reach the highest DPS, and arguably is the highest - however, lets not even remotely think that it prevents the Dunmer from reaching their crazy 50k+ DPS anyway.

Its not doom and gloom when the changes are as minor as they're. If Altmer had upwards to a 1000+ spell damage and several k's worth of additional max magicka, sure enough, that would make them leagues above. But as it stands, 750 magicka really isn't all that much.

If anything, I think that Altmer should be taken down a notch to allow both Dunmer, Breton and Khajiit to better compare as magicka races, as those are races whom all have quite an affinity for magical arts in their societies. (Despite that not being reflected in prior renditions of the Khajiit racials throughout the TES series)

automatony

Carbonised wrote: »

It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

You can take that as a negative or a positive, it is entirely up to you.

I choose positivity.

Carbonised

automatony wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

It's not just "small tweaks" its a complete game changer.

You can take that as a negative or a positive, it is entirely up to you.

I choose positivity.

Considering that I have 5 Dunmer mag classes, no, I can't really take that as anything other than a negative. I literally don't care a flying F that their stam spec got buffed. For me, and for anyone else playing Dunmer MagDK or any other Dunmer mag spec, we got shafted. There's no "other way to look at it".

Machete

Bosmer with most stam regen of any race? Sure I'll take it! Though I'm feeling Dunmer spell and weapon damage goes down by half.

Anoregon

gamerratic_ESO wrote: »

Anoregon wrote: »

Honestly I wouldn't hate this, but I think the best option is just to overhaul existing racials so that one of the two options happens:

-All racials have morphs that allow the player to focus on magicka or stam

or

-Most racials are chosen from a unified pool available to all races, with the only traits being locked to race being the more thematic things like swim speed, elemental resists, weapon line XP, and stealth detection.

I understand that it's important to adhere to lore concerns, but the current model is skewed too heavily in that direction to the detriment of just being a satisfying gameplay experience. Every race should be capable of playing every roll without feeling like they are gimping themselves by playing the "wrong" race. I just don't see lore/RP concerns as a good enough justification for reducing player freedom/choice to the degree that the current racial bonus setup does.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Racial Birthright system? Something that balances both Lore and freedom of choice that you mention @ZOS_Gilliam ?

At Level 1 - you receive your Racial Legacy passives. For example...

• High Elf - Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain
• Argonian - Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed
• Wood Elf - Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10%
• And so on...

At Level 10 - you receive your Racial Birthright passives.

• Aldmeri Perfection (High Elf) - Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability, once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5%, while you are using a cast time or channel ability.
• One with the Hist (Argonian) - Increases your Healing Done by 4% and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Roots of the Valenwood (Wood Elf) - Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• High Rock Ancestry (Breton) - Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
• Will of the Tribunal (Dark Elf) - Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250 and your Max Health by 625.
• Child of the Red Diamond (Imperial) - When you deal Direct Damage, you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.
• Rajhin's Luck (Khajiit) - Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
• Ysgramor's Boon (Nord) - Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
• Malacath's Vengeance (Orc) - Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a Weapon Ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
• Yokuda Heritage (Redguard) - When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 950 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

At Level 30 - you receive your first Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of options such as...

• Increase your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Increase your Max Stamina by 2000.
• Increase your Max Health by 2000.
• Increase your Weapon or Spell Damage by 258, whichever is higher.
• Increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.
• Increase your Healing Done by 4%.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

At Level 50 - your receive your second Divine Blessing passive. For example, you can choose ONE from a number of new (or previous) options such as...

• Increase your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
• Increase your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
• When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
• Reduces the cost of your Weapon Abilities by 8%.
• Increase your Flame damage by 5% and your Flame Resistance by 2310.
• Increase your Shock damage by 5% and your Shock Resistance by 2310.
• And so on...(obviously creating balanced choices; these are just suggestions based on the proposed changes)

Yes, certain races would still have an edge in certain archetypes. High Elves for magicka dps. Redguard for stamina dps. Argonians for healing. Imperial/Nord for tanking. However, the disparity in creating an Orc magicka dps would not be as significant a dps loss as it is given the current racial passives.

And yes...I do realize that the passives would have to be balanced out to ensure there is no stat bloating...rofl.

Moreover, as with resetting your skill and attribute points, an additional Shrine can be added in the main hubs where players would be able to reset their TWO Divine Blessing passives for a significant cost.

Finally, I feel that this suggestion would give players the freedom to create the characters and character types/roles they want - tank, healer, dps, raiding, pvp, etc. - while hopefully maintaining a balance with the Lore passives.

Please feel free to riff on this!

(Apologies if something like this was already suggested. My eyes started getting blurry 20 pages of forum responses in...rofl)

I'd certainly prefer that to the current system.

susmitds

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.

In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.

Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:



Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.



With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.

Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:



And the other way around:



It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.

KuroDark wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.

Carbonised

susmitds wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.

In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.

Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:



Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.



With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.

Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:



And the other way around:



It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.

KuroDark wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.

And what good is that going to do for one of the most iconic playstyles in this game for years, namely the Dunmer MagDK fire mage?
Dunmer is not -the- best stam race, if you take sustain into consideration Dunmer ends up in 2nd or 3rd place. And once again, I don't give a flying F if they are the supreme OP race for stam builds or not. We made our Dunmer magDKs in a span of 5 years where Dunmer were clearly superior as mag specs and meant to be a mag race. Suddenly changing them to be a stamina oriented race and be clearly a better choice for stam builds than for mag builds is disrespectful to the Dunmer Magicka playerbase.

dragonknightblade

Carbonised wrote: »

Considering that I have 5 Dunmer mag classes

What? Why? Huh?

Deathlord92

I said it thousand times already but I’m hyped so I’m say it Breton for life I’m happy with these changes to my favourite race 🙂

Carbonised

dragonknightblade wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Considering that I have 5 Dunmer mag classes

What? Why? Huh?

Cause Dunmer was a perfectly reasonable choice for all mag specs for all classes? Not BiS for anything other than magdk, but certainly not a bad choice either.

Roboplus

After having slept on it and reread everything:

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

High Elf

• Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This is going to make for some really annoying rotations, especially for Stam characters that may not have a reason to use a class skill every 6 seconds (or even every 12 seconds).

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Argonian

• Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
• Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
• Quick to Mend: Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.

If you felt they had too much, I don't understand why you didn't just drop the Max Magicka instead of nerfing everything else so much. Between Nightblades losing Minor Vitality and this, my NBTank has lost over 10% of their self-healing. And 1000 of each resource from potions. And the Poisoned status immunity.

If it needs to be said, I really don't care about the slightly buffed Disease Resistance.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

If that speed buff stacks with all other Movement Speed buffs then that's pretty nice. The increased Stealth detection has a lot less applications than reduced detection radius, though. You can stealth past NPCs, you're not going to detect invisible ones. The Stam values are strong, so I don't think Bosmer need a huge buff. But I feel if any race got the short end of the stick for their "special" racial, it's them.

Maybe add a "When you kill an enemy" effect? Burst of Health? 4-5 second Minor Evasion?

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Breton

Slight reduction to Spell Resistance for major buffs everywhere else is very nice. Gonna be honest though, after reading though all of the other races, kinda boring.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Dark Elf

• Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
• Resist Flame: Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
• Destructive Ancestry: Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

Remember the 5 piece set of Pelinal's Aptitude? Your Spell and Weapon Damage both become the highest of the two values. Instead of trying to balance their Stam and Mag playstyles, why not give them that so they can potentially use both? That would, and I'm quoting you here, "enhance the unique feeling and gameplay pattern". Having hybrid passives, specifically like this, ironically make them the worst hybrid race.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Imperial

It's not that its bad. But like Breton it's not especially interesting.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Khajiit

• Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.

Mag/Stam Recovery is a value that anyone can use. This is a better thing to split then Max resources or S/W damage. Could probably drop the inconsequential Health Recovery and redistribute those points elsweyr, though.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

• Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.

You... what? That's insane! That's more than any race can get via set bonuses! Now that is a different playstyle!

However, since it does nothing in Dungeons or Trials, I wonder if you couldn't give Khajiit something else to specifically help them out there. Like a form of Minor Slayer or Aegis, but stackable with the actual buff.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Nord

• Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

Beep beep! New meta-tank coming through!

Seriously, this is amazing and totally something you can deliberately build to take advantage of.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Orc

• Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
• Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
• Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

See, unlike Altmer's Spell Recharge, Unflinching would be a lot easier for both Mag and Stam builds to take advantage of because they both always use weapon abilities. Unflinching doesn't provide any Mag, but it's the method of acquisition that matters.

Swift Warrior has always been strong, and now it's stronger. Not much else to say.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Redguard

Like Breton and Imperial, it's all good stuff. Just kind of underwhelming from a gameplay standpoint. Unless...

Does that Weapon Cost reduction include Ultimates? I don't think we've ever seen this particular terminology before. Weapon passives always say "Reduces the Stamina/Magicka cost of". The wording here seems deliberately different.

regime211

The changed to Dunmer are trash, please go back and reevaluate the decisons you guys made.

KuroDark

susmitds wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:

1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.

In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.

Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:



Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.



With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.

Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:



And the other way around:



It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.

KuroDark wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.

Yeah that's cool. But now I am forced to change my magblade into stamina, which I don't want.

cambergang

Wow so instead of dark elf and over all 9% max you basic gave them 6% and then made them do the same amount of spell damage as high elf when dark elf should have More becuase they do 7% flame damage. good job zos you can destroy *** even more great balancing so you can send me my free race change token in the mail, or I’ll mail you a summons paper

method__01

too bad there isnt a "dislike" option for posts

Devoter

RIP Dunmer

Twohothardware

On the Stamina side the Redguard changes definitely need to be looked at again.

The meta for builds in both PvE and PvP is running high damage and a lower Recovery stat. Redguard has been the #1 choice by far for PvE Stamina builds for forever now because of the strong passive sustain from Adrenaline that doesn't require you to have any Recovery stat at all to benefit. That allows you to stack more damage for higher DPS and requires fewer heavy attacks in your rotation to sustain.

And your fix for this is to now change Redguards 9% Recovery bonus to 8% cost reduction which further ignores any need for a Recovery stat and then buff Adrenaline on top of it?

With those changes Redguard will continue to be the only logical choice for Stamina PvE builds and will likely be the new Argonian in PvP.

Oxalias

I have more than 1 character that needs a race change :'C

DracoUchiha

I do not like that you guys have completely gone past the lore that Black Marsh, for Lore reasons have poisons, and Argonians are Resistant to both Poisons and Diseases. Argonians ingest poisons that kill other races. I do not like this. The other races I am okay with, but the idea of having to take off Poison Resistance makes me upset. Please revert Argonian Passive Argonian Resistance.

joseayalac

absolutely LOVE this changes, everything seems very nice, flexible and balanced, except maybe for the bosmer speed, which I think will be too much in PvP.

Schattenfluegel

Overall good Changes...

Darkmage1337

max_only wrote: »

Wood Elf

Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment:
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

Look at your logic that I bolded. Enemies can’t be bothered to sneak about.

Then look at the change you made. Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m

So enemies can’t be bothered to sneak yet Bosmer can detect sneaking better. Your own explanation invalidates your own logic.

Rethink this please.

Plus, on top of all that, the Bow weapon skill-line passive ability, Hasty Retreat, "Grants you Major Expedition for 4 seconds after you use Roll Dodge. Major Expedition increases your Movement Speed by 30%."
I am assuming that this Hasty Retreat stacks with the new Wood Elf "20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds from roll dodging," passive via @ZOS_Gilliam's new 'Stealthy' passive? Or, will they overwrite each other and take the higher of the two values?

@ZOS_Gilliam The 10% extra bonus damage from attacking from stealth should be returned, as well. One can only attack from stealth once, as an opener to start the fight engagement, so why completely remove this unique/flavor effect from Wood Elves' passives, yet buff Red Guards' unique Adrenaline passive?

@ZOS_Gilliam Enemy NPCs do not stealth. Why are you removing a good, balanced passive (10% bonus damage from attacking via stealth, which only happens once per fight/encounter) and replacing it with a completely useless passive (increase stealth detection ---> yet Enemy NPCs do not stealth). And, enemy players in PvP on PC use Miat's PvP add-on, which tells them when a nearby player is in stealth or goes into stealth. So, what's the point of this useless passive? Take it away! Go back to the drawing board. And/or please return the 10% damage bonus from attacking via stealth.

Please and thank you.

JobooAGS

Twohothardware wrote: »

On the Stamina side the Redguard changes definitely need to be looked at again and this time put your glasses on.

The meta for builds in both PvE and PvP is running high damage and a lower Recovery stat. Redguard has been the #1 choice by far for PvE Stamina builds for forever now because of the strong passive sustain from Adrenaline that doesn't require you to have any Recovery stat at all to benefit. That allows you to stack more damage for higher DPS and requires fewer heavy attacks in your rotation to sustain.

And your fix for this is to now change Redguards 9% Recovery bonus to 8% cost reduction which further ignores any need for a Recovery stat and then buff Adrenaline on top of it? This will be even more imbalanced in PvE and be the new replacement for where Argonian is now for OP in PvP.

If Redguard is going to have noticeably better sustain than the other Races then at least drop the max stamina to 1000, especially considering you dropped Orc max stamina to only 500 when you gave them passive sustain.

The 8% cost reduction is only to weapon abilities. Orcs also have a weapon damage passive which is already better than 2k stam. If you look at bosmer, the 258 regen is better than adrenline rush due to regen multipliers while still having the same stam as redguard, having movement speed after dodging and poison resists.

The 3 races are overall balanced

Crixus8000

I feel like wood elf is lacking. First 2 passives are nice but then extra stealth detection radius and 20% move speed after dodge rolling seems a little off. Stealth detection is only used in cyro and still useles imo since there is many ways of revealing in stealth already and the 20% move speed bonus is nothing special.

Moloch1514

This sucks. My Altmer Pet Sorc is barely competitive in PvE as it is, and I've dropped any hope of vMA after Nerfmire. Now I get to look forward to a huge DPS loss from my pets.

Thanks so much @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Gilliam for making things even worse. ZOS' track-record of nerfing my build every patch since Morrowind is safe!

JobooAGS

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I feel like wood elf is lacking. First 2 passives are nice but then extra stealth detection radius and 20% move speed after dodge rolling seems a little off. Stealth detection is only used in cyro and still useles imo since there is many ways of revealing in stealth already and the 20% move speed bonus is nothing special.

In a snare meta, more movement speed is king, but the stealth detection is a bit lack luster

flgraybear

Before Morrowind came out you changed the magic CP system, I left for one and a half yrs because of that, so you lost my subscription funds for that time, I came back a little over a year ago, and built my mag/sorc back up. I recently purchased the race change to change my mag/sorc from Altmer to Dunmer, to better fit my play style, now you go and change that. At the VERY LEAST YOU NEED TO GIVE OUT A CHANGE RACE FOR EVERY CHARACTER A CUSTOMER HAS WHEN YOU MAKE THESE MAJOR CHANGES that you are determined to do. I feel like I have wasted the last year since these changes will once again change how I play this game. Have you ever heard the phrase if it's not broke don't fix it.