dragonknightblade wrote: »
This is going to make for some really annoying rotations, especially for Stam characters that may not have a reason to use a class skill every 6 seconds (or even every 12 seconds).ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »High Elf
- Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
If you felt they had too much, I don't understand why you didn't just drop the Max Magicka instead of nerfing everything else so much. Between Nightblades losing Minor Vitality and this, my NBTank has lost over 10% of their self-healing. And 1000 of each resource from potions. And the Poisoned status immunity.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Argonian
- Resourceful: Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
- Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
- Quick to Mend: Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.
If that speed buff stacks with all other Movement Speed buffs then that's pretty nice. The increased Stealth detection has a lot less applications than reduced detection radius, though. You can stealth past NPCs, you're not going to detect invisible ones. The Stam values are strong, so I don't think Bosmer need a huge buff. But I feel if any race got the short end of the stick for their "special" racial, it's them.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Wood Elf
- Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
Slight reduction to Spell Resistance for major buffs everywhere else is very nice. Gonna be honest though, after reading though all of the other races, kinda boring.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Breton
Remember the 5 piece set of Pelinal's Aptitude? Your Spell and Weapon Damage both become the highest of the two values. Instead of trying to balance their Stam and Mag playstyles, why not give them that so they can potentially use both? That would, and I'm quoting you here, "enhance the unique feeling and gameplay pattern". Having hybrid passives, specifically like this, ironically make them the worst hybrid race.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Dark Elf
- Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
- Resist Flame: Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
- Destructive Ancestry: Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.
It's not that its bad. But like Breton it's not especially interesting.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Imperial
Mag/Stam Recovery is a value that anyone can use. This is a better thing to split then Max resources or S/W damage. Could probably drop the inconsequential Health Recovery and redistribute those points elsweyr, though.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Khajiit
- Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.
You... what? That's insane! That's more than any race can get via set bonuses! Now that is a different playstyle!ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »
- Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.
Beep beep! New meta-tank coming through!ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Nord
- Stalwart: Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
See, unlike Altmer's Spell Recharge, Unflinching would be a lot easier for both Mag and Stam builds to take advantage of because they both always use weapon abilities. Unflinching doesn't provide any Mag, but it's the method of acquisition that matters.ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Orc
- Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
- Unflinching: Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal damage with a weapon ability you restore 380 Health and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
- Swift Warrior: Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.
Like Breton and Imperial, it's all good stuff. Just kind of underwhelming from a gameplay standpoint. Unless...ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »Redguard
Let me give you a statement on why I see these changes as an overall improvement. First, let me clear a few things up that people do not seem to understand when they look at these changes:
1. Flat stats are a buff, NOT a nerf. These get amplified by all % buffs you have and will translate to at least the same stat density as before, in many instances even more. In no CP content and instances where you have warhorn available, this is a significant buff especially.
2. On magicka races, sure you can say that altmer is the best race when it comes to the pure dps output while neglecting any sustain component. However, that's neglecting additional factors that come in. Khajiit has spell crit, magicka recovery that effectively translates into roughly the same sustain that altmer gets, they have max magicka AND 8% spell critical, which will benefit more from additional critical damage you have in group content and will be especially effective on templars and nightblades. Factoring in sustain, bretons are incredibly strong in that regard, so much so that they are a valid choice for any class that struggles with sustain and also allows using BLUE food in most instances, plus giving resistance and a flat recovery that always ticks. Also people seem to neglect the additional health that khajiit gets, which is very valuable in many instances. Dunmer is the most versatile race now since it can do both specs and also gets health. If you wanted to min/max 100% dunmer is not the ideal choice for dps (again neglecting the aspects from above), but the difference is ~1k magicka and 60-70 magicka per second. The altmer sustain component also only functions when you actually cast a class ability, whereas breton and khajiit have a passive that always ticks.
3. Stamina races are very very close to each other, especially in actual fights. People seem to think redguard is still the ultimate best, but this is not the case. Bosmer, orc, khajiit, dunmer are all viable. Redguard requires you to deal DIRECT damage now to benefit from the adrenaline rush, which is a significant reduction in effectiveness from what we had before, since it will not proc on DoT-abilities. The weapon cost reduction also requires you to cast abilities to be effective. Bosmer is 100% on par with redguard sustainwise. 258 recovery that ticks all the time is a lot and will net you a higher gain than the passives redguards have in many instances in PvE and PvE. Orc has higher damage compared to these two, but a bit less sustain. Khajiit is still a very viable choice and the sustain is basically unchanged from what they had before. I'm not 100% satisifed on the imperial side because they don't really have anything that benefits their role as a DD in pve, but for tanking they definetely became better.
In order to prove some of this, i made an excel sheet where i implemented these into a standard build for stamina and magicka DDs in PvE. Magicka build was (as far as i remember) Zaan, Siroria and Sorrow/Spell Strategist, while the stamina version uses Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth.
Formula is the same as above.
Here's the comparison of effective spell power and weapon power:
Here, altmer comes out as the clear winner, and for stamina, dunmer puts out the highest damage. This does not yet factor in sustain components. In order to do so, I introduced a ranking system that basically just ranks races based on damage and sustain with equal weights. The weights can ofc be adjusted, so if sustain is more important to you, the ranks will change accordingly.
With equal weights, altmer still comes out on top, but not by much. Shifting the weights towards sustain more and more makes breton the best choice.
Shifting the weights to 30% sustain and 70% damage yields the following:
And the other way around:
It all depends on what you need, and the gaps are not as cear and big as many make them seem.Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.
I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.
I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?
Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.
Dunmer is the top PvE stamina DPS. Check one of the other threads. There are mathematical breakdowns.
Wood ElfIncreases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.
Developer Comment:
The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1
Look at your logic that I bolded. Enemies can’t be bothered to sneak about.
Then look at the change you made. Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m
So enemies can’t be bothered to sneak yet Bosmer can detect sneaking better. Your own explanation invalidates your own logic.
Rethink this please.
Twohothardware wrote: »On the Stamina side the Redguard changes definitely need to be looked at again and this time put your glasses on.
The meta for builds in both PvE and PvP is running high damage and a lower Recovery stat. Redguard has been the #1 choice by far for PvE Stamina builds for forever now because of the strong passive sustain from Adrenaline that doesn't require you to have any Recovery stat at all to benefit. That allows you to stack more damage for higher DPS and requires fewer heavy attacks in your rotation to sustain.
And your fix for this is to now change Redguards 9% Recovery bonus to 8% cost reduction which further ignores any need for a Recovery stat and then buff Adrenaline on top of it? This will be even more imbalanced in PvE and be the new replacement for where Argonian is now for OP in PvP.
If Redguard is going to have noticeably better sustain than the other Races then at least drop the max stamina to 1000, especially considering you dropped Orc max stamina to only 500 when you gave them passive sustain.
Crixus8000 wrote: »I feel like wood elf is lacking. First 2 passives are nice but then extra stealth detection radius and 20% move speed after dodge rolling seems a little off. Stealth detection is only used in cyro and still useles imo since there is many ways of revealing in stealth already and the 20% move speed bonus is nothing special.
Crixus8000 wrote: »I feel like wood elf is lacking. First 2 passives are nice but then extra stealth detection radius and 20% move speed after dodge rolling seems a little off. Stealth detection is only used in cyro and still useles imo since there is many ways of revealing in stealth already and the 20% move speed bonus is nothing special.
In a snare meta, more movement speed is king, but the stealth detection is a bit lack luster
lassitershawn wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »If you had a race with 10% max stamina or magicka, and your final build was around 40k magicka or stamina, then these changes are nerfing you by HALF. You will lose effectively 2000 of the 4000 resources in your max pool (39600/1.1) = 36,000 + 2000 = 38,000
- If you ran a Breton or High Elf Magicka build with 40k magicka, you now have 38k magicka. I guess Magnus is an indian giver.
- If you ran a Redguard Stamina damage build with 40k stamina, you now have lost effectively 200 weapon damage.
- If you ran a 50k health imperial tank, you now have 46.6k Health
This isn't "Balance" this is nerfing the top damage dealing builds in the game. This is the price of power creep.
This isn't the case, the 2k magicka should be affected by % magicka increases and I saw somewhere that the final difference is only around 1k on a fairly high magicka build.
Twohothardware wrote: »On the Stamina side the Redguard changes definitely need to be looked at again and this time put your glasses on.
The meta for builds in both PvE and PvP is running high damage and a lower Recovery stat. Redguard has been the #1 choice by far for PvE Stamina builds for forever now because of the strong passive sustain from Adrenaline that doesn't require you to have any Recovery stat at all to benefit. That allows you to stack more damage for higher DPS and requires fewer heavy attacks in your rotation to sustain.
And your fix for this is to now change Redguards 9% Recovery bonus to 8% cost reduction which further ignores any need for a Recovery stat and then buff Adrenaline on top of it? This will be even more imbalanced in PvE and be the new replacement for where Argonian is now for OP in PvP.
If Redguard is going to have noticeably better sustain than the other Races then at least drop the max stamina to 1000, especially considering you dropped Orc max stamina to only 500 when you gave them passive sustain.
The 8% cost reduction is only to weapon abilities. Orcs also have a weapon damage passive which is already better than 2k stam. If you look at bosmer, the 258 regen is better than adrenline rush due to regen multipliers while still having the same stam as redguard, having movement speed after dodging and poison resists.
The 3 races are overall balanced