Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Salyyn

Trancestor wrote: »

Please make it something like this and you won't trigger anyone with yet again more nerfs and force people to buy tokens:

High Elf

Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka after activating a Magicka Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2500.
Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Argonian

Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka and Stamina by 500. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1500 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done and Recieved by 4%.

Wood Elf

Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 10% Movement Speed for 4 seconds.

Bosmer

Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2500.
Spell Resistance: 3960 Spell Resistance → Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%. Gain flat reduction of snares by 15%.

Dark Elf

Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.
Resist Flame: 3% Max Magicka and 2079 Flame Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 750 and your Flame Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
Destructive Ancestry: 7% Flame damage and 2% Frost/Shock Damage → Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 175. Increases your flame damage by 4%.

Imperial

Tough: 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 3000.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 3000.
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 2000. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 10%.

Khajiit

Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 150.
Stealthy: Reduce detection radius by 3m and Increase damage from Stealth by 10% → Lunar Blessings: Increases your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 750.
Carnage: Increase Weapon Critical Chance by 8% → Feline Ambush: Increases your Weapon and Spell Critical Chance by 8%. Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 5m.

Nord

Stalwart: 6% Max Stamina and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Max Stamina by 1500. When you take damage, you gain 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
Resist Frost: 9% Max Health and 2079 Cold Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1750 and your Cold Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.
Rugged: 6% damage reduction → Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3960.

Orc

Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 1250.
Unflinching: Healing Received by 5% and 20% Health Recovery → Increases your Healing Received by 4%. When you deal melee damage you restore 760 Health and 380 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
Swift Warrior: 4% Melee attack, 12% Sprint cost reduction and 10% Sprint Speed → Increases your Weapon Damage by 258. Reduces the cost of your Sprint ability by 12% and increases your Movement Speed while Sprinting by 10%.

Redguard

Exhilaration: 9% Stamina Recovery → Martial Training: Reduces the cost of your Stamina abilities by 5%.
Conditioning: 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Stamina by 2500.
Adrenaline Rush: When you deal damage with a melee attack you restore 792 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds. → When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 850 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

This. I would actually be quite okay with *this* being what goes live. The current list ZoS has made is very sporadic in it's arrangement, akin to if someone took a bunch of darts and threw them at the board simultaneously. The above, however, is very clear and sticks with what we had before as far as range, while still converting with proper balance.

saganblackblade

Any chance of also receiving name change token?

I feel the changes are pretty fair overall. I am wondering about the khajiit passives being so low in value but that being said we go khajiit for crit not other stats. Just hlad to see it didnt get crit chance wrecked.

ezio45

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam

While I am super excited with changes that will create for variation amongst races, the changes to Dark Elves (specifically when compared against High Elves) don't actually help race diversity at all, but rather eliminate it.

As far as Magicka DPS is concerned right now on live, Altmer and Dunmer are more or less neck in neck. Depending on class/build one can edge out the other but they are a good example of different but equal.

With the proposed changes, that parity is gone and Altmer becomes the de facto choice with Dunmer lagging far behind.

Currently in live Dark Elves get 9% extra magicka, with High Elves having 10%. So only a 1% difference.
1250 max magicka vs 2000 however is a staggering difference, and the extra stamina and health do not do anything to make up for it.

The Dunmer design here seems to be aimed at building a hybrid, as its stats are split between stam and magicka (and a bit of health even). Meaning its not going to excel at anything. Hybrid stam/mag builds just aren't viable, they don't work. A player has to dedicate to one or the other... but doing so will mean choosing Dunmer wastes half the benefit of these passives, and gets less overall.

I ask you please re-visit the Dunmer passives without trying to pigeonhole them into a hybrid, jack of all trades. All this will do is make them an inferior race for any one role.

this is true

SugaComa

Audens wrote: »

The Dunmer change is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. There is now no reason to choose Dunmer over Altmer for mag DPS. Or for anything really, other than an RP hybrid build.

Not true ... Altmer has only 750 less max magica and slight increase to resource management , but dunmer has more stam, better for blocking and breaking free

If you read the whole article these passives are designed to add flavour not define a build ... I think they're subtle enough to allow min\maxers the tools to do so but also players like me who like to experiment a little wiggle room for making something interesting and off kilter

ArcadenceBlaine

Yall are Messing the game up again, and my friends are gonna leave.

Very disappointing

(edit) I know how to fix it.. Just trash this crap.

nouagea

All I'm saying is that we get 1 race AND name change token per account (I'd say per character but I don't think ZOS would let it slide) to maintain the lore continuity of naming conventions. This will be one hell of a cash-grab by ZOS if they think some of us are going to pay 35 bucks for race and name changes per how ever many toons might be changed.

Lord_Eomer

trowlk wrote: »

I you intend to transform Dark Elf's passive, Ruination should increase their Spell and Physical penetration, instead of increasing their Spell and Weapon damage

Spell and Weapon damage buff is much better and should not be replaced.

Lord_Eomer

ArcadenceBlaine wrote: »

Yall are Messing the game up again, and my friends are gonna leave.

Very disappointing

(edit) I know how to fix it.. Just trash this crap.

lol! good luck changes are best so far

Anoregon

Weper wrote: »

I think racial passives should be removed so we can play with our favorite race. With the racial passives we are forced to play with the meta or at least with a viable race. Or maybe they could nerf the passives so they give only low stats like 1% Stamina Regen, 1% Magicka regen, etc ...

Honestly I wouldn't hate this, but I think the best option is just to overhaul existing racials so that one of the two options happens:

-All racials have morphs that allow the player to focus on magicka or stam

or

-Most racials are chosen from a unified pool available to all races, with the only traits being locked to race being the more thematic things like swim speed, elemental resists, weapon line XP, and stealth detection.

I understand that it's important to adhere to lore concerns, but the current model is skewed too heavily in that direction to the detriment of just being a satisfying gameplay experience. Every race should be capable of playing every roll without feeling like they are gimping themselves by playing the "wrong" race. I just don't see lore/RP concerns as a good enough justification for reducing player freedom/choice to the degree that the current racial bonus setup does.

citats

Keeping the status effect immunity of some classes definitely seems like a mistake to me. These effects are circumstantial and offer nothing when fighting enemies that don't use the negated status effect and offer too much when fighting enemies that rely on that status effect for their build to be successful.

Wood elf's new stealth detection passive is a waste of "overall race power" as it is also circumstantial. It only does anything when you're fighting a nightblade, and it is not useful on classes/builds which already get this bonus in other ways (like stamsorc's hurricane which already pulls a nightblade out of stealth). I really hope this bonus does not contribute to your calculation of race power.

Somber97866

Ok, so who at ZOS has the dream of the hybrid meta?

KuroDark

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

I think making Spell Recharge restore higher resource also doesn't make sense. Because who would like to play a stamina Altmer if all the other bonuses are for magic.

I like changes to Khajit since there are mages and warrior cat-folk and it can finally be played this way. But there are NORD MAGES, ALTMER DUDES WITH SWORDS IN HEAVY ARMOUR, ORC SHAMANS... Someone was mentioning morphs for racial passives, I think that's a really interesting and good Idea. So why not make it possible for players for ALL RACES?

Don't know what to do with my Dunmer nightblade now... I wanted my char to be strong in magicka like for instance Telvanni mages/Divayth Fyr, but now Dunmer are not as good magic dps as Altmer... I like playing magblade, but now there are way better options. But If I wanted to go stamblade, then again, there are also better options. Since there are mages and warrions of all races, that would make sense. You say you want to follow the lore too, but Imperials are left without magic passives at all. Dunmer are also known as good mages, but you nerf their magicka.

Cravalllo

Feedback from an endgame PvE perspective:

The changes seem quite alright, not taking into account that it is a nerf to most builds, however. We lose some ressources but overall it looks more balanced. I personally don´t really like the fact that % values were changed to flat numbers since it only simplifies the game mechanics and takes away some of the unique passives, this, however, is only my personal opinion and is not really essential for objective feedback.

Two of the changes seem out of place though. Looking at the Dunmer changes first:
The fact that Dunmer are now forced into a sort of hybrid role makes them lose a lot of combat power against High Elves, which were both viable in endgame pve (Dunmer providing slightly more damage compared to High Elves being the 'rounder' class which also targets sustain issues, etc.). The lost combat power is also not outweighed by the gained stats which only benefiit stamina builds. Thus, Dunmer are neither competitive when it comes to magicka builds nor can they compete with the various stam races.

The second change is affecting the Khajiit. I like that they are granted spell crit and some magicka, however, 75 stam regen is definitely not doing the job. There are two options to target this issue. Either increase the max stamina they receive up to 1000-1500 or remove the health recovery (which is btw. the most useless stat in the game, not even valuable for tanks) and change it into a higher amount of stam (and magicka) recovery (100-150 ish).

Other than that I think the changes are well done, providing more balance across different races and giving some new options. This, however, is only possible if Dunmer passives get adjusted, because otherwise we have a High Elf only meta for magicka builds. Also, one race change token is definitely a meme if changes go live like this.

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

MLGProPlayer

ezio45 wrote: »

Not too bad lol feedback: @ZOS_Gilliam

highelf: The gain resources back ever 6 seconds is pretty weak That mean roughly every rotation your getting 1k resources backs. I dont see myself investing in this perk. Id prefer something like when you use a class ability you gain x amount of recovery for x seconds. Or if your really trying to gimp highelf recovery and it seems like you are. Maybe do an attack buff instead to gain x damage from class abilitys for x seconds.

Also I think you kinda shot yourself in the foot on this one lol zos stated one of the goals was to give more effective options for roles. Highelf was an effective option for healers along with argonian and breton. The nerf to recovery for highelf essentially rules it out as a healer whose most important stat is sustain. so you went from 3 healer options down to 2.

Argonian: Not bad, I think i was expecting worse tbh, good job

Woodelf: I think this is one of the weaker classes from these changes, it really doesnt seem like it has a purpose. It needs passives that are more clear cut. Really the stam recovery and 2k stam are the only useful passives.

Dark elf: Again not bad, I would say its an effective option for stam or mag dps now

Imperial: good

khajiit: I dont like the recovery passive. Its very underwhelming. 75 to recovery is basically a full set of invigorating and that is also a weak buff. It needs work, id say out of all the passives so far this is the worst.

Nord is cool, i like it

Orc is a little underwhelming too

redguard pretty good

575 magicka back every 6 seconds is the same as 192 magicka recovery. This is actually more than +9% magicka recovery at the lower magicka recovery values (+9% at base recovery is like 70 magicka recovery).

Vyseman

@ZOS_Gilliam

Whats about 1 Week FREE Racechange for EVERY Char to find the good Race?
Thats totaly Pay2Win when ne need REAL Money to Change the Race for EVERY Char

BaylorCorvette

Ok so I just did some testing for my Orc StamSorc. Tool tip for DB with the following conditions.

Steed Mundus with Orc swift warrior passive that gives 4% melee damage: 18,763
Warrior Mundus to simulate the 258 weapon damage Orc will be getting, but I removed the Orc swift warrior passive to eliminate the 4% melee damage: 18,935.

But we're going to lose about 1k or more max stam. So tool tips will be about the same. BUT at least now Orc will be buffing poison injection and vigor tooltips. So net damage is a slight increase.

I still think a 1k max stam and max health vs the proposed 500 max stam and max health would be the way to go and then Orc should be *perfect*

Il3rotherhood

Some of these seem pretty inconsistant... for exemple:

Wood elves previously had a 6% max stamina increase. Now, it will be a 2000 max stamina increase.
Breton previously had a 10% max magicka increase. Now, it will also be a 2000 max magicka increase..!
High elves previously had a 10% max magicka increase. Now, it will also be a 2000 max magicka increase..!

I mean... why ? this is really inconsistent.

Also, lore wise and with the dev comment you put under Breton, they should clearly have the highest base magicka pool of all races. So why do they have the exact same bonus than Altmer ? And why did you nerf the spell resistance ? they are not even more resistant to spells than Nords..! this does not make any sense

Lord_Eomer

Cravalllo wrote: »

Feedback from an endgame PvE perspective:

The changes seem quite alright, not taking into account that it is a nerf to most builds, however. We lose some ressources but overall it looks more balanced. I personally don´t really like the fact that % values were changed to flat numbers since it only simplifies the game mechanics and takes away some of the unique passives, this, however, is only my personal opinion and is not really essential for objective feedback.

Two of the changes seem out of place though. Looking at the Dunmer changes first:
The fact that Dunmer are now forced into a sort of hybrid role makes them lose a lot of combat power against High Elves, which were both viable in endgame pve (Dunmer providing slightly more damage compared to High Elves being the 'rounder' class which also targets sustain issues, etc.). The lost combat power is also not outweighed by the gained stats which only benefiit stamina builds. Thus, Dunmer are neither competitive when it comes to magicka builds nor can they compete with the various stam races.

The second change is affecting the Khajiit. I like that they are granted spell crit and some magicka, however, 75 stam regen is definitely not doing the job. There are two options to target this issue. Either increase the max stamina they receive up to 1000-1500 or remove the health recovery (which is btw. the most useless stat in the game, not even valuable for tanks) and change it into a higher amount of stam (and magicka) recovery (100-150 ish).

Other than that I think the changes are well done, providing more balance across different races and giving some new options. This, however, is only possible if Dunmer passives get adjusted, because otherwise we have a High Elf only meta for magicka builds. Also, one race change token is definitely a meme if changes go live like this.

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

Dunmer currently beating behind every stam race currently in PVE DPS and very good for PVP too

MEBengalsFan2001

What I am getting from this racial update is...

Magika DPS - High Elf or Breton
Stamina DPS - Redguard or Orc
Tank - Nord, Orc, Imperial, Argonian, Khajiit and Dark Elves
Healer - High Elf, Breton and Argonian


So long are the days of a Khajiit and Dark Elves as DPS.

Morg08

I had said to a friend before these were announced something along these lines : If they just deepen the existing "BIS" (Best In Slot) race choices why bother, if they change all the meta's people will lose their minds, even if race changes are free asking people to race change a toon they have main'd and had for 4-5 years is brutal. So I assumed they would just nerf all race changes to be meaningless flavor text - (like faster swimming). Making all races an even choice for any role.

Instead they deepened the meta in places (Nord Tanks, Redguard DPS) and completely changed/nerfed the meta it in others (Argonian Healing, Dunmar mag DPS) - so the worst 2 possibilities that I had dismissed as crazy and they wouldn't dare AND they want to give out once race token per account. Shady AF. SMH ZOS.

Galarthor

@Derra , I used an average magicka consumption of 3000 per second.

Which means at 7% cost reduction Bretons save 210 magicka per second.
Because regeneration ticks every 2 seconds I calulate the magicka saved by Bretons every 2 seconds, which is ofc 420.

Next I multiply the 420 by 1.25 b/c cost reduction is 25% more effective than a resource pool increase. So the 420 magicka saved in 2 seconds is equivalent to a regeneration of 525.

Next I added the 100 magicka regeneration Bretons get from Spell Resistence to obtain the total magicka regeneration Bretons effectively get from their passives, which ofc is then 625.

This is about 3.25 times higher than the 192 magicka regen Altmers get.

This is all pre-bonuses and CPs ofc.
But in essence Bretons get 2310 Spell Resistence + 433 Magicka Regen in exchange for 258 Spell Damage.

And the dispairity only gets larger with increasing average magicka consumption per second. That's why I was a little bit baffled why you reached a smaller number than me.

DeadlyRecluse

I think the core idea that seems to be here (removing % amps and adding flat values) makes sense and might be the *right* direction, but it isn't one I enjoy.

Wood elf % stam regen was a great buff for very specific builds and was a lot of fun to play with in terms of pushing regen through the roof and enabling for a very different gameplay--at the cost of most of your damage. That option is essentially gone.

Removing health regen passives is yet ANOTHER nerf to hp regen tanking, a niche playstyle that has been consistently nerfed almost every patch since 1 Tamriel. I have a Nord DK to delete now, as I have no real reason to run him over my Redguard or Dunmer DK. This is a real bummer.

I've run HP regen tanks of each class. They're fun. They aren't particularly strong compared to active tanks.

Just delete Troll King (and Beekeepers and Green Pact too, if you have to) and restore the old HP regen passives on at least one race, so that there's SOME workable regen tank.

nine9six

RIP Dunmer

AshTal

One day Argonian's will dump their potion drinking ability and get something permenant.

_Ahala_

Bosmer is looking good

Lord_Eomer

Cravalllo wrote: »

Feedback from an endgame PvE perspective:

The changes seem quite alright, not taking into account that it is a nerf to most builds, however. We lose some ressources but overall it looks more balanced. I personally don´t really like the fact that % values were changed to flat numbers since it only simplifies the game mechanics and takes away some of the unique passives, this, however, is only my personal opinion and is not really essential for objective feedback.

Two of the changes seem out of place though. Looking at the Dunmer changes first:
The fact that Dunmer are now forced into a sort of hybrid role makes them lose a lot of combat power against High Elves, which were both viable in endgame pve (Dunmer providing slightly more damage compared to High Elves being the 'rounder' class which also targets sustain issues, etc.). The lost combat power is also not outweighed by the gained stats which only benefiit stamina builds. Thus, Dunmer are neither competitive when it comes to magicka builds nor can they compete with the various stam races.

The second change is affecting the Khajiit. I like that they are granted spell crit and some magicka, however, 75 stam regen is definitely not doing the job. There are two options to target this issue. Either increase the max stamina they receive up to 1000-1500 or remove the health recovery (which is btw. the most useless stat in the game, not even valuable for tanks) and change it into a higher amount of stam (and magicka) recovery (100-150 ish).

Other than that I think the changes are well done, providing more balance across different races and giving some new options. This, however, is only possible if Dunmer passives get adjusted, because otherwise we have a High Elf only meta for magicka builds. Also, one race change token is definitely a meme if changes go live like this.

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

Dunmer currently beating behind every stam race currently in PVE DPS and very good for PVP too

nine9six wrote: »

RIP Dunmer

Best Stam DPS race and RIP?

saganblackblade

To all who are worried about khajiit recover passive:

I just did the math on my stamblade critty cat on live.....its a 13 recovery loss. That is to say a whopping 6.5 stam per second lost. And thats factoring in artaeum takeaway

Anoregon

AshTal wrote: »

One day Argonian's will dump their potion drinking ability and get something permenant.

We can only hope.

mr_wazzabi

lihentian wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

• Increases experience gain in Bow Skill Line by 15%, decreases fall damage taken by 10% → No changes
• Y’ffre’s Endurance: 21% Stamina Recovery → Increases your Stamina Recovery by 258.
• Resist Affliction: 6% Max Stamina and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.
• Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.
  • A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.

Developer Comment

The thick forests of Valenwood have imprinted the importance of the ability to hunt in the Wood Elf race, and as such they have a natural adeptness for detecting potential threats. Quick to react and well versed in the poisons of nature, they can outlast and outwit their opponents. These traits are demonstrated with their natural speed boost when tactfully engaging combat, and their unparalleled Stamina Recovery.

wood elf look terribly useless...

10% fall damage is just a sick joke. usually people only take fall damage out of combat. which make this tiny damage reduction meaningless

Y’ffre’s Endurance- this is a nerf... imo 21% is much more then 258.. at least on my build..

Resist Affliction- not bad.. but poison damage is not very common in both pvp and pve.. at least when comparing with other elemental such as fire and ice...

Hunter’s Eye: ??? stealth detection? really??? why the hell does anyone want this? there is mage light, in pvp. and in pve no one ever need this thing...

both khajiit and wood elf are been known for their sneaky and thievery culture. why only the cat get everything that is useful???? please at least give one trait to the wood elf, for gum's sake this is the only reason i ever choose wood elf... because i can stealth better and i don't have to have a tail on my rear end..

my suggestion

change 10% fall damage to 15% movement speed while stealth.

change stealth detection to chance of getting better result from pickpocket.

You're right. Just did the math.

Before adding g racial passives, if you run anything more than 1230 recovery on your bosmer, this change is a nerf. Please increase the flat value to 350 recovery at the LEAST.

Sleep724

Imperial race is the pay-to-lose class now.