Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Savos_Saren

SturgeHammer wrote: »

Argonian changes were kind of what I expected, but I would have preferred the argonian resistance passive to be a little more interesting. If it has to be a damage type resist, then poison resist is probably more useful than disease. Personally, I think something unique like a small bleed damage % resist would be more exciting.

Hell give Dunmer a small resistance to bleed (since they're supposed to be able to survive the harshest stuff). That might help with the fact that they're supposed to be a "hybrid" race and that bleeds effect all builds.

StarOfElyon

LADYKiLLER wrote: »

I get all the combat arguments. PvE, PvP, whatever. But as someone who really, really enjoys the gameplay of being a sticky-fingered rogue type, suddenly losing the reduced stealth detection on wood elves sucks. And I'm a role player so the race change token is meaningless to me. My character isn't just going to sprout ears and a tail.

I can relate. My character is what it is, no matter what.

Samsquanch

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

SturgeHammer

Savos_Saren wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

Argonian changes were kind of what I expected, but I would have preferred the argonian resistance passive to be a little more interesting. If it has to be a damage type resist, then poison resist is probably more useful than disease. Personally, I think something unique like a small bleed damage % resist would be more exciting.

Hell give Dunmer a small resistance to bleed (since they're supposed to be able to survive the harshest stuff). That might help with the fact that they're supposed to be a "hybrid" race and that bleeds effect all builds.

I wouldn't be opposed to something like that also being added to other races' passives. I was mostly just using the bleed resist as an example of a narrow, but useful, resist passive that is a little more creative than a flat damage type resist.

I really like your idea of using unique resistances to support hybrid play styles, never really thought about it that way before.

Samsquanch

Are all of the active regen passives like the altmers, redguards, and orcs affected by battle spirit? If so, the orc one is super weak. Will be 140 every 4 seconds after the reduction...

grannas211

cambergang wrote: »

Wow so instead of dark elf and over all 9% max you basic gave them 6% and then made them do the same amount of spell damage as high elf when dark elf should have More becuase they do 7% flame damage. good job zos you can destroy *** even more great balancing so you can send me my free race change token in the mail, or I’ll mail you a summons paper

Lol

Twohothardware

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

katorga

technohic wrote: »

What bothers me is; I wanted a nord, so I took my templar a nord. I gave up meta and in stead built to use its health recovery, health, and stam. The damage reduction percent really was not great but helped with bleeds which do not care about armor. I feel like a sledgehammer was taken to it, decreasing the health and stam and vaporizing the health recovery. Probably most people could care less about that but for me, it made the character different. Ultimate generation can be nice but 10 seconds is an incredibly long time in combat to just get 5 ultimate.

I think Nord might have gotten the best passive in the game. It is essentially minor heroism. 1 ultimate every 1.5 seconds vs 5 every 10. I started a Nord warden back when with the idea of stacking rugged and minor protection for a permanent 12% dmg reduction, now I may pick him back up and stack ult gen while still having about the same mitigation due to the phys/spell resistance passive. No diminishing returns on resistances compared to the percentage damage reduction (well except for bleeds).

My templar is swapping to Altmer for sure if things stay as is. Sorc will stay Altmer.

FYI, I like the changes overall, and really like how they will shake things up.

IronWooshu

Raudgrani wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Why don't the conversions from percentage resource to static amount scale the same. 10% is 2000, yet 9% is 1000? etc. Overall nerfs to max health and health regen builds. Will be interesting to see how these align with Necromancer. Will be interesting to see if Percentage stat/regen increase class and armor passives stay the same.

High Elf - huge buff. Just wow for Templar with Cyrodill's light, channeling Mist form. Probably best healer, dps magicka race.
Argonian - nerf
WoodElf - probably a buff, only good for stam.
Breton - huge buff. New magicka DK race.
DE - max staf nerf, still best hybrid race
Imperial - meh, max health nerf.
Khajit - big buff. viable as magicka now.
Nord - not sure, nerf to rugged, but Ult regen might be best passive. Nord Wardens will spam ults.
Orc - huge buff.
Redguard - huge buff

A dazzling ulti generation up to 30 ulti per minute, that's game changing! Or... was it?

combine that with Wardens ulti generation and that is a lot

JJBoomer

I like the way these changes look. *thumbs up*

JobooAGS

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.

Morgul667

Seems more logical than most changes I have seen in the game

Dont know how it will turn out to be though, but it is good to see some changes documented, communicated and thoroughly prepared

kuddos for that

Pulsari

@ZOS_GinaBruno may I humbly ask you to consider including BLACK completely BLACK HAIR for Altmers when rebalancing races? All human-like races have black hair, and Altmers don't... it seems soooo unbalanced!

valusthecateater

The changes reek of an attempt to get people to buy race change tokens, but the joke's on ZOS--I am not buying crap. These changes probably won't affect me much as I am not a hardcore min/max person, but I refuse to buy into cash grabs.

Samsquanch

JobooAGS wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.

While I agree that the 258 weapon damage is pretty nice, and will net more total damage than redguards Max Stam passive, the orc brawny passive is still a joke.

Take the dark elf passive for example. They get the 258 weapon AND spell damage, as well as 1250 Stam/mag.

The orc conditional health/Stam regen is only going to be 190/4 secs with battle spirit. What a joke.

Edit: 190 recovery. Bad at math

barshemm

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam
I think if these changes go live as is, I may have to race change to redguard or Nord for pvp Stam sorc. The sustain is going to be great for my pve Stam sorc though. Sad Orcs are now better for pve than pvp, so much for the warrior race.

The lower max stats is going to hurt damage more than the weapon damage will help because we won't have enough resources to finish people in this tank meta. We will be going toe to toe with medium armor nords running close to max resist with no valid source of major fracture, short of going extra tanky ourselves and running sword and board. Night mother's gaze? Sure if I want to run under 30k max stamina.

Not to mention, orcs just took a big hit on our ability to go defensive in pvp. Health recovery is a large part of what made orcs able to get in and face tank opponents and recover when we disengage in outnumbered situations.

JobooAGS

Samsquanch wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.

While I agree that the 258 weapon damage is pretty nice, and will net more total damage than redguards Max Stam passive, the orc brawny passive is still a joke.

Take the dark elf passive for example. They get the 258 weapon AND spell damage, as well as 1250 Stam/mag.

The orc conditional health/Stam regen is only going to be 140/4 secs with battle spirit. What a joke.

Oh the brawny passive in general, yeah, I say add more stam or hp, say 750-1k of each total

snowmanflvb14_ESO

So basically you all are cat lovers and wanted to *** Bosmers. the detection radius is crap as by the time you see someone in stealth close up you are dead. Wow we can run fast after roll dodging. Your argument for the changes actually works better with the original passive far better.

Vapirko

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

It does look low on paper but let’s see what the PTS brings. Don’t forget it now scales with all other modifiers so it’ll likely even out for some builds but will be a flat nerf for others In terms of max stat. For sustain though you’re getting an extra 190 stamina and health recovery so long as you’re dealing damage with weapon abilties, that includes dots like rending slashes, poison injection etc. Again we have to see how it actually feels. I am skeptical on the max stat thing.

ThePlayer

High Elf now is much better choice for all magicka DD builds, with only the ruination they ruin the Dark Elf coz now miss all the boost in the flame dmg, i hope they going to change it coz is the worse nerf for all the magicka DD dark elf, that's mean DK magicka, NB magicka and Templar magicka..

TheInfernalRage

@ZOS_Gilliam Can we have the Kahjiit regen into 125 for health, 100 each for Stam and Magicka?

Nogawd

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

You are directly costing your player base money and time.

The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.

That's BS. There would always be a race seen as better than the others, it's not min/maxers' or endgame players' faults.

This is a blatant cash grab and nothing else. The only people at fault here are ZOS.

Even though I have 9 max characters, I agree with him. Those min/maxers are a special kind of, eh, I just feel sorry for them as humans.

Rykmaar

@ZOS_Gilliam

Are these final?

Re: Dunmer passive... I'm curious as to how you foresee Dunmer competing with other races with the changes. How were the numbers for the mag/stam buffs decided? They seem low by comparison to other races? What was the impetus for the 600 health passive?

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

First off I'd like to think that I speak for most of or at least a large part of the community:

I've played ESO since some time not long after console release (xbox) religiously (look at my character list in my bio). It's my most played game by far even though ZoS had done a lot of s**t things in here (I'm looking at you Morrowind patch). I bit the bullet and stayed through but these racial changes are going to kill basically everyones builds and it's like Morrowind lite.

It's cool that you can now actually be viable as a mag build as a khajiit (which lore wise, most certainly!) with these proposed changes but Altmer is clearly the best magicka race, especially with these proposed race changes by a long shot.

Congrats, you open up more play styles by catering to the normie RPers but kill people like me that are somewhere between casual and dedicated/"pro" (Idk what the best word is). Khajiit wasn't doing too well in the first place but now it's getting nerfed stat wise (though the stealth thing is cool but that doesn't matter cause I'm PvE now)

ZoS, you're walking a razor line and if you continue like this, you're going to have to pick between people like me (or above) or the casual normies. OOOOORRRR you could not walk that line and let us pick what passives we want - to an extent. That's the best option.

IronWooshu

I would like to see the ulti gen cooldown shorter on the Nord, bring it down to like 8 seconds.

TheValkyn

So Nord tanks are screwed. I didn't need more resistances as I was capped and the loss of health recovery is significant. Poor "balance".

Aurielle

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Wow, Dark Elf is completely ruined for my magicka builds.

ZOS, what the hell were you thinking?

What ZOS was thinking:

“How can we manipulate players into buying more class change tokens?”

Elusiin

WhiteKhajiit wrote: »

My Magicat is finally viable for vet content! So excited.

I know I can finally run magicka khajit, I'm so happy

BringerOfOmens

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I play my Altmer Templar using primarily class skills knowing that I'll never be tops at anything but more or less well rounded. This is the way I want to play. So I don't understand people seeming to want to change race because they're not the tops at something anymore.

You have a certain playstyle which is, by your words, more acceptance of not being tops at anything but there are other players who want to be tops and made choices accordingly.

ZOS providing race change tokens to all players for all their characters keeps everyone happy. Joe Minmax will get to race change and continue with his play style and you wont have to use the race change token and continue with yours. A choice that hurts neither of you and allows you to continue playing and being happy about it.

dogman

dogman wrote: »

gilliam is worse at balancing stuff than wrobel thats an accomplishment

LMAO