Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Morgul667

Seems more logical than most changes I have seen in the game

Dont know how it will turn out to be though, but it is good to see some changes documented, communicated and thoroughly prepared

kuddos for that

Pulsari

@ZOS_GinaBruno may I humbly ask you to consider including BLACK completely BLACK HAIR for Altmers when rebalancing races? All human-like races have black hair, and Altmers don't... it seems soooo unbalanced!

valusthecateater

The changes reek of an attempt to get people to buy race change tokens, but the joke's on ZOS--I am not buying crap. These changes probably won't affect me much as I am not a hardcore min/max person, but I refuse to buy into cash grabs.

Samsquanch

JobooAGS wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.

While I agree that the 258 weapon damage is pretty nice, and will net more total damage than redguards Max Stam passive, the orc brawny passive is still a joke.

Take the dark elf passive for example. They get the 258 weapon AND spell damage, as well as 1250 Stam/mag.

The orc conditional health/Stam regen is only going to be 190/4 secs with battle spirit. What a joke.

Edit: 190 recovery. Bad at math

barshemm

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam
I think if these changes go live as is, I may have to race change to redguard or Nord for pvp Stam sorc. The sustain is going to be great for my pve Stam sorc though. Sad Orcs are now better for pve than pvp, so much for the warrior race.

The lower max stats is going to hurt damage more than the weapon damage will help because we won't have enough resources to finish people in this tank meta. We will be going toe to toe with medium armor nords running close to max resist with no valid source of major fracture, short of going extra tanky ourselves and running sword and board. Night mother's gaze? Sure if I want to run under 30k max stamina.

Not to mention, orcs just took a big hit on our ability to go defensive in pvp. Health recovery is a large part of what made orcs able to get in and face tank opponents and recover when we disengage in outnumbered situations.

JobooAGS

Samsquanch wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

2000 stam = 190 weapon damage (228 with cp, well 2k stam becomes 2.4k stam)

Orc has 258 weapon damage and 500 stam without cp= 305 weapon damage. (315 with cp) Plus 500 health. The orc's sustain also includes health. Don't forget there are far more multipliers for weapon damage some to include are major and minor brutality and fighter'a guild. Just major brutality and dbos will bring orc's 258 weapon damage to 317. 356 if you wear 5 medium with it.
This plus cp will give you 413 effective weapon damage.

While I agree that the 258 weapon damage is pretty nice, and will net more total damage than redguards Max Stam passive, the orc brawny passive is still a joke.

Take the dark elf passive for example. They get the 258 weapon AND spell damage, as well as 1250 Stam/mag.

The orc conditional health/Stam regen is only going to be 140/4 secs with battle spirit. What a joke.

Oh the brawny passive in general, yeah, I say add more stam or hp, say 750-1k of each total

snowmanflvb14_ESO

So basically you all are cat lovers and wanted to *** Bosmers. the detection radius is crap as by the time you see someone in stealth close up you are dead. Wow we can run fast after roll dodging. Your argument for the changes actually works better with the original passive far better.

Vapirko

Twohothardware wrote: »

Samsquanch wrote: »

Orc brawny passive is a joke! You should increase the stat given or add resistances or something.

Yeah a bonus 500 Health/Stamina is pathetic. That's not even 2% bonus in most cases.

Orc has about one third of the Stamina sustain as Redguard and Redguard gets 2000 Stamina giving them nearly the same damage as Orc.

It does look low on paper but let’s see what the PTS brings. Don’t forget it now scales with all other modifiers so it’ll likely even out for some builds but will be a flat nerf for others In terms of max stat. For sustain though you’re getting an extra 190 stamina and health recovery so long as you’re dealing damage with weapon abilties, that includes dots like rending slashes, poison injection etc. Again we have to see how it actually feels. I am skeptical on the max stat thing.

ThePlayer

High Elf now is much better choice for all magicka DD builds, with only the ruination they ruin the Dark Elf coz now miss all the boost in the flame dmg, i hope they going to change it coz is the worse nerf for all the magicka DD dark elf, that's mean DK magicka, NB magicka and Templar magicka..

TheInfernalRage

@ZOS_Gilliam Can we have the Kahjiit regen into 125 for health, 100 each for Stam and Magicka?

Nogawd

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

ZoS we’ve gone so far past the time where you can reasonable make changes to the races like you have. I’ve personally leveled 14 characters with the intention of playing a specific race on that character to sever specific needs. Setting aside the clear in balance and lack of freedom you’re giving people you’re also costing us hundreds of dollars to re adjust ourselves to something we’ve made decisions on that costed us hundreds of hours in leveling alone.

You are directly costing your player base money and time.

The only solution I see is making races a cosmetic choice with no combat influence. Perhaps add a system where you choose the passives because frankly you’re just forcing people who genuinely care about performance to buy tokens and race change. This is unacceptable.

Honestly you, the min/maxers that tell is what is BiS take the fun out of end game so I feel no sorrow for any of the min/maxers on these changes who have the shell out money.

That's BS. There would always be a race seen as better than the others, it's not min/maxers' or endgame players' faults.

This is a blatant cash grab and nothing else. The only people at fault here are ZOS.

Even though I have 9 max characters, I agree with him. Those min/maxers are a special kind of, eh, I just feel sorry for them as humans.

Rykmaar

@ZOS_Gilliam

Are these final?

Re: Dunmer passive... I'm curious as to how you foresee Dunmer competing with other races with the changes. How were the numbers for the mag/stam buffs decided? They seem low by comparison to other races? What was the impetus for the 600 health passive?

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

First off I'd like to think that I speak for most of or at least a large part of the community:

I've played ESO since some time not long after console release (xbox) religiously (look at my character list in my bio). It's my most played game by far even though ZoS had done a lot of s**t things in here (I'm looking at you Morrowind patch). I bit the bullet and stayed through but these racial changes are going to kill basically everyones builds and it's like Morrowind lite.

It's cool that you can now actually be viable as a mag build as a khajiit (which lore wise, most certainly!) with these proposed changes but Altmer is clearly the best magicka race, especially with these proposed race changes by a long shot.

Congrats, you open up more play styles by catering to the normie RPers but kill people like me that are somewhere between casual and dedicated/"pro" (Idk what the best word is). Khajiit wasn't doing too well in the first place but now it's getting nerfed stat wise (though the stealth thing is cool but that doesn't matter cause I'm PvE now)

ZoS, you're walking a razor line and if you continue like this, you're going to have to pick between people like me (or above) or the casual normies. OOOOORRRR you could not walk that line and let us pick what passives we want - to an extent. That's the best option.

IronWooshu

I would like to see the ulti gen cooldown shorter on the Nord, bring it down to like 8 seconds.

TheValkyn

So Nord tanks are screwed. I didn't need more resistances as I was capped and the loss of health recovery is significant. Poor "balance".

Aurielle

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Wow, Dark Elf is completely ruined for my magicka builds.

ZOS, what the hell were you thinking?

What ZOS was thinking:

“How can we manipulate players into buying more class change tokens?”

Elusiin

WhiteKhajiit wrote: »

My Magicat is finally viable for vet content! So excited.

I know I can finally run magicka khajit, I'm so happy

BringerOfOmens

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I play my Altmer Templar using primarily class skills knowing that I'll never be tops at anything but more or less well rounded. This is the way I want to play. So I don't understand people seeming to want to change race because they're not the tops at something anymore.

You have a certain playstyle which is, by your words, more acceptance of not being tops at anything but there are other players who want to be tops and made choices accordingly.

ZOS providing race change tokens to all players for all their characters keeps everyone happy. Joe Minmax will get to race change and continue with his play style and you wont have to use the race change token and continue with yours. A choice that hurts neither of you and allows you to continue playing and being happy about it.

dogman

dogman wrote: »

gilliam is worse at balancing stuff than wrobel thats an accomplishment

LMAO

Dracane

All this talk about Dunmer being gutted and Altmer being the shining winner. O.o
If one race was nerfed the most, then it has to be Altmer. (Right up there with Argonians) Gift of Magnus is just worse in every way, the regen passive is also a nerf for many instances. There are situations where I personally never use class abilities, because they are not needed. The only class ability is liquid lightning and that is used every 10s not every 6s. Everything else is weapon abilities.

And Elemental Expert is no difference at all. 258 spell damage was just 45 more damage for force pulse compared to 4% elemental damage.

Dunmer is overloaded with passives in comparison. You get health, stamina, Magicka and spell damage on top. Compared to live, you have lost fairly little and you have at least been compensated with many other stats that EVERY build benefits from (no matter how little you claim to care for it). Altmer got nothing in return. It's just worse than before without compensation. All races have gained something interesting, Altmer is just worse in every aspect.

John_Falstaff

Still think that khajiits could get more sustain - pull from the (arguably useless) health regen and redistribute to the magicka and stamina. With buffs to redguards and dunmers, they're both going to overshoot khajiits in stamina DPS builds by a wide margin.

That said, it's nice khajiits are actually viable for magicka now, and - if nothing changes - I frankly ponder converting my unloved dunmer magblade (made under meta pressure) into a proper feline. ^^

Tholian1

Sleep724 wrote: »

Imperial race is the pay-to-lose class now.

We have to be tanks and merchants and nothing else it seems.

lokulin

Gutted but not surprised that my sorc (argonian tank) has been screwed once again. Will have to find some extra health from somewhere else and will continue to struggle with even worse pool regen without a uninterruptible way of gaining back stamina while blocking that isn't potion use. Would have been fine with these changes if dark-deal was changed to instant cast. The only reason I play as a tank is the lack of tanks in the game still. The on going refusal to level the playing field for tanks keeping DKs far ahead of the pack is mystifying. Will continue to hold out on renewing my subscription or buying crowns untill either sorc sustain is improved, achievements are account wide or a class change token is implemented. In the mean time I might as well use the race change token to switch to red guard or something that will at least mean I can play my sorc as a DPS.

mr_wazzabi

Dracane wrote: »

All this talk about Dunmer being gutted and Altmer being the shining winner. O.o
If one race was nerfed the most, then it has to be Altmer. (Right up there with Argonians) Gift of Magnus is just worse in every way, the regen passive is also a nerf for many instances. There are situations where I personally never use class abilities, because they are not needed. The only class ability is liquid lightning and that is used every 10s not every 6s. Everything else is weapon abilities.

And Elemental Expert is no difference at all. 258 spell damage was just 45 more damage for force pulse compared to 4% elemental damage.

Dunmer is overloaded with passives in comparison. You get health, stamina, Magicka and spell damage on top. Compared to live, you have lost fairly little and you have at least been compensated with many other stats that EVERY build benefits from (no matter how little you claim to care for it). Altmer got nothing in return. It's just worse than before without compensation. All races have gained something interesting, Altmer is just worse in every aspect.

Altmer magplar and magblades got a huge buff though. Class skills form most of their dps and most if not all of them are magic damage.

Dracane

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

All this talk about Dunmer being gutted and Altmer being the shining winner. O.o
If one race was nerfed the most, then it has to be Altmer. (Right up there with Argonians) Gift of Magnus is just worse in every way, the regen passive is also a nerf for many instances. There are situations where I personally never use class abilities, because they are not needed. The only class ability is liquid lightning and that is used every 10s not every 6s. Everything else is weapon abilities.

And Elemental Expert is no difference at all. 258 spell damage was just 45 more damage for force pulse compared to 4% elemental damage.

Dunmer is overloaded with passives in comparison. You get health, stamina, Magicka and spell damage on top. Compared to live, you have lost fairly little and you have at least been compensated with many other stats that EVERY build benefits from (no matter how little you claim to care for it). Altmer got nothing in return. It's just worse than before without compensation. All races have gained something interesting, Altmer is just worse in every aspect.

Altmer magplar and magblades got a huge buff though. Class skills form most of their dps and most if not all of them are magic damage.

And Magicka Sorcerer once again, damaged even further. The nerf river just will never stop flowing. Every update makes this class trashier and more forgettable.

burglar

I love these changes conceptually, and I think this is the right direction for the game to be heading.

All of these passives are buffs to each race in more ways than one; the flat values instead of percentages can be affected by modifiers; they are relevant to the lore of your race; and they give each race a stronger identity - which has been sorely needed.

I think that by reducing, removing or restructuring the current racial modifiers creates more potential to balance the game through counter play. As it is, one set can break certian aspects of the game, which I think people are referring to as power creep(?). On top of that, sets are likely to be more distinct in their usefulness to each race as their impact can vary widely between races. That alone will make our character's, and items they use more valuable, making overall game play more rewarding.

It's possible that I'm simply being hopeful, but these changes show that the team has dedicated time and thought into making each racial passive substantive, and meaningful enough to generate a real sense of value that differentiates each race from another. This kind of consideration isn't easily forced or feigned without careful execution. Their goal is to generate value for the player, here.

Personally, I feel relieved... I thought the game was doomed, but these changes, in combination with the recent, less desirable ones, convinces me that we're "tearing the band-aid off" to get more engaging gameplay. Change is never comforting, but I think all of this is promising more engaging game play. ESOpocalypse averted.

oXI_Viper_IXo

dogman wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

gilliam is worse at balancing stuff than wrobel thats an accomplishment

LMAO

Did you really just quote and laugh at your own comment?

Cundu_Ertur

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

gilliam is worse at balancing stuff than wrobel thats an accomplishment

LMAO

Did you really just quote and laugh at your own comment?

Someone had to.

roksolana_sowa

In pve all mag dds will be helfs, all stam dds redguards or orcs, all tanks will be nords and most healers will be bretons, so I have question - what actually u wanted to do? Chage one master rase to enother?
U did nothing for bosmers, at least thanks that u buffed orcs, u just made khjiits weaker than even dunmers in stamina setup.
Ppl who wanna make RP will still play favorite rase but if I want to maximase my dps I still would need to play rase what u chose for couse difference now even more huge.
For pve numbers of stats and regen will be pretty same like now all differens will be in pvp setups, well... maybe it can help to do something in that part of game.
Actually those changes did nothing for me only nerfed more my khajiit chars comparing to redguards, great job before Elsweyr.

Iskiab

Agree with what other’s have written. If anything this will widen the gap between Redguards and other races making them mandatory for any stamina build.