Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

Lord_Ninka

There might be room for balancing and fine tuning, but over all this sounds wonderful!

Snipress

Please give us a name change token along with the race change token.

bpmachete

Shezzarrine wrote: »

I was really hoping they would either give Imperial something for magicka or give it some sort of stam recovery passive. The passives seem pretty lackluster, for pve that is. I have both a mag and stam dps that are Imperial and was hoping I could change my main dps ok Imperial without it being too much of a loss in sustain/damage but it seems I will have to stick with redguard. Most of the passives can be good for multiple roles but Imperial seems only good for tanking and maybe a little in pvp. Any chance Imperial gets looked at again?

Yeah, before for PvP DPS at least they hit harder because of max stam compared to other races, but now with the extra mundus weapon damage to other races and the stamina difference being minimal (heck even the wood elf caught up) there is like you said, it seems that only a tanking role they could be better at than other races.

Wood elf gets same stam and stam recovery extra... other races just a bit less stam but more than a mundus of weapon damage that now helps their heals and before it was just damage done... I do hope they bring Imperial into balance.

GERMANO-THE-IMPERIAL

Eso is Dead !

Moonsorrow

Personally i think that would have been enough to slightly adjust couple things that made some clearly above every other race or be the "no one picks this race" extremes. Or have morphs for passives for both magicka and stamina and adjust values accordingly. That would have been the real freedom.

So of course people are emotional about these changes. It is sad, because just few days ago all were hyped about the coming year with all the new cool and fun stuff, and now its sadness and fighting on lost things and feeling forced to switch races to play atleast close to what used to like.

All are ready (or most) to take hits on class abilities since those are often changed during a yea, back and forth if needs, but race is part of your identity on the characters, and most likely not get changed again in the next couple of years.. many been playing for years possibly and so the hits on them feel big and not justified, especially when the changes like this do not deliver the freedom that was the goal.

All who know me, know i dont easily get sad about things, but love the game and most often some even say i am some ZOS whiteknight defender, but this time i feel the race changes could have done much better, so people would feel the same hype still than after the big year announcement, now many just feel they are losing on fun and not getting back something in return that would make them be happily playing. The uproar about it tells it all. It does not happen without reason. It is not just selfish crying.

Some say this is adjusting power creep. It would have been done easier by making the champion points system reworked completely. Not with almost random adjustments to races that in the end changed nothing to what was the goal, feel like it was work done for nothing and without a clear vision on what wanted to achieve with it, again.

Would give more detailed thoughts about it, but long enough wall of text already and i feel like there are only a handful of people at forums with emphatic logics and understanding that simple solutions that affect everyone are better than having people feel sad about things individually and fighting against other fellow players for crumbs and laughing when someone else gets nerfed as long as it is not them.

Hope everyone has a good weekend though.

bpmachete

Aliyavana wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Only one I'm worried about is the Redguard. Given how hard that race is pushed as "The Choice for StamDPS," buffing Adrenaline Rush feels like a mistake.

Edaphon wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Wood Elf

[*]Stealthy: Reduces detection Radius by 3m and Increases Damage Done in Stealth by 10% → Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Can we please get something useful instead?
Reduced cost for roll dodge for example. Even just +10 health would be better than this.

no, 20 percent speed buff is amazing

The rolldodge builds will be ridiculous now, will run circles around people and will be super unbalanced like with the swift initial speed bonuses.

Gnozo

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

High Elf

• Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain → No changes
• Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
• Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Developer Comment

High Elf culture is heavily ingrained with the belief of destiny and birthright, so we wanted a passive that highlighted their ability to harness their innate powers, or class. Granting them a unique resource when accessing a class ability really gets that feeling off and makes it much more engaging than the previous flat recovery bonus.

On top of that, High Elves are well known for being powerful spell casters, and we wanted to make this race feel more powerful when they were charging up a powerful ability.

I am so confused about Spell Charge.

High Elfs are clearly the race wich is more magicka related then any others Race But Can Potential restore stamina when the ressource pool is higher? The passive is called Spell charge. SPELL!

All other passives are magicka based, max magicka, spell damage but then this stamina or magicka wichever is higher?

Feels so random cause maybe 1% of all highelf classes will be stamina.... so confused.

Schattenfluegel

Gnozo wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

High Elf

• Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain → No changes
• Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
• Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
• Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Developer Comment

High Elf culture is heavily ingrained with the belief of destiny and birthright, so we wanted a passive that highlighted their ability to harness their innate powers, or class. Granting them a unique resource when accessing a class ability really gets that feeling off and makes it much more engaging than the previous flat recovery bonus.

On top of that, High Elves are well known for being powerful spell casters, and we wanted to make this race feel more powerful when they were charging up a powerful ability.

I am so confused about Spell Charge.

High Elfs are clearly the race wich is more magicka related then any others Race But Can Potential restore stamina when the ressource pool is higher? The passive is called Spell charge. SPELL!

All other passives are magicka based, max magicka, spell damage but then this stamina or magicka wichever is higher?

Feels so random cause maybe 1% of all highelf classes will be stamina.... so confused.

My Magsorctank would be happy - its an Highelf actually.

skeevynix

Having let these changes as they stand now sink in a little, I am in favour of them,


I'll see how it runs through the PTS before I make decisions on race changes for any of my toons
(most likely my dunmer magden will go the way of the token)


I am really liking the direction ZOS are taking this year.

Well Done guys

Raudgrani

technohic wrote: »

So as I am chewing on this a while, I guess it feels like all races were adjusted somewhat close for the most part with just Red guard and Altmer as they seem to be more dedicated one way or another. Whatever there, as I will let the math people go over this crap.

What bothers me is; I wanted a nord, so I took my templar a nord. I gave up meta and in stead built to use its health recovery, health, and stam. The damage reduction percent really was not great but helped with bleeds which do not care about armor. I feel like a sledgehammer was taken to it, decreasing the health and stam and vaporizing the health recovery. Probably most people could care less about that but for me, it made the character different. Ultimate generation can be nice but 10 seconds is an incredibly long time in combat to just get 5 ultimate. Even if it would be decent, it seems the race is now better suited for a different character I have (*cough* Dunmer DK) and less for what I was doing already that might actually synergise better with Khajiit at a bit weaker version, which is all well and good, but that already is more than 1 race change. I have a few characters that will be stuck.

I guess I feel like we could adjust to clearly less exaggerated strength of races, but it feels like the deck has been shuffled and we are stuck with either a race that no longer matches what we are trying to do; or we have to purchase tokens if we have more than 1 character.

I can't see this "It's Minor Heroism all the time dude! Amazing!", no? It's like this, you get 5 Ultimate, for taking damage, and that's every TEN seconds. That's maximum 30 ultimate/minute, given that you TAKE damage at least every ten seconds. ten seconds is a long time in combat, at least in PVP.
And I don't know how they mean Nords should take that damage now, health recovery is no more, max helth messed up, max stamina messed up, the old damage reduction made worse - no recoveries at all, on any stat. How are you supposed to intentionally take damage as to build up that ultimate? And what ultimate are you supposed to use? Warhorn? Remembrance? If you build your character to walk around and soak up damage all the time, your Dawnbreakers or whatever really won't do any silly damage; especially not now since you get lower max stamina and everything.

It's just stupid, I can't see how people get so excited about this new passive. Can't people read?

Raudgrani

IronWooshu wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Why don't the conversions from percentage resource to static amount scale the same. 10% is 2000, yet 9% is 1000? etc. Overall nerfs to max health and health regen builds. Will be interesting to see how these align with Necromancer. Will be interesting to see if Percentage stat/regen increase class and armor passives stay the same.

High Elf - huge buff. Just wow for Templar with Cyrodill's light, channeling Mist form. Probably best healer, dps magicka race.
Argonian - nerf
WoodElf - probably a buff, only good for stam.
Breton - huge buff. New magicka DK race.
DE - max staf nerf, still best hybrid race
Imperial - meh, max health nerf.
Khajit - big buff. viable as magicka now.
Nord - not sure, nerf to rugged, but Ult regen might be best passive. Nord Wardens will spam ults.
Orc - huge buff.
Redguard - huge buff

A dazzling ulti generation up to 30 ulti per minute, that's game changing! Or... was it?

combine that with Wardens ulti generation and that is a lot

You can say that about exactly everything. What if you're not a Warden, or if you don't use Shimmering shield? "Combine being a Warden and a Nord using Shimmering Shield with Hist Champion and Akaviri Dragonguard, and that's amazing". You can do it, yes. But essentially, it's ***. I'd much rather keep my universal damage reduction, my health recovery and max stats - and build specifically for "ulti gen", if that's what I want.

Raudgrani

IronWooshu wrote: »

I would like to see the ulti gen cooldown shorter on the Nord, bring it down to like 8 seconds.

Make it no cooldown whatsoever, and it might start to get close to compensating all the other stuff they messed up.

Can't see why they simply didn't make MORPHS of racial passives. So that you COULD remain the same, or fiddle around with this if you wanted to make an "ulti poop tank", an Orc magsorc, or a Khajiit healer. Why, just WHY do they need to turn the game completely upside down every time they decide to "balance" something? Some of us are pretty pleased with the characters we made, and we don't want to theory craft and spend a fortune on armor etc. once every six months.

Tatertodd

I wish I could magically make the game split between PVP and PVE so the Devs can just balance each race & class according to their PVE performance and then separately balance each race & class according to their PVP performance. The mixing of the two just rubs everyone the wrong way.

Sun7dance

Wood Elves are no longer immune to the status effect of disease damage.
That's a huge nerf, especially for medium armour in pvp.
I don't understand ZOS kind of view here!

MAGISSCIEN

This all looks great and excellently balanced EXCEPT Dunmer.

My thoughts.

As has been stated above they are losing out to the other races for Magicka builds and Stamina builds. There are no viable hybrid dps builds and any that are tried always fail. The flame resist is only a 3% reduction and is way too situational compared to the other 2 magicka races specifically.

Ideas.
1. Switching the 600 health to 600 magicka or stamina based on whichever is higher would definitely help here.
2. Another thought as we do not have morphs for racial skills might be something like the example below.

Destructive Ancestry: Increases your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage(Whichever is higher) by 387 *This one alone would probably balance Dunmer and Altmer as they were before.

Feel free to quote me on this anyone if you like the idea. Would definitely help it get noticed.

ArvenAldmeri

The altmer recovery change is nothing but a huge nerf. Its almost like if it got removed overall. It restores less than what natural magicka recovery does. And bound to class skills... useless, completely. Rip mag sorc.

joaaocaampos

I edited and decided to post again. This is my feedback.

High Elf

• Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Magicka Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an Magicka ability with a cast or channel time.

Wood Elf

• Hunter’s Eye: Increases your Stealth detection radius by 3m. After you use Roll Dodge you gain 20% 10% Movement Speed for 3 seconds.

Breton

• Spell Resistance: Gain 2310 2640 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.

Dark Elf

• Dynamic: Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250 2000.
• Resist Flame: Increases your Max Health by 600 and your Flame Resistance by 2310 2640. You are immune to the Burning status effect.
• Ruination: Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 258.

Khajiit

• Robustness: Increases your Health, Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.

Nord

• Resist Frost: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Cold Resistance by 2310 2640. You are immune to the Chilled status effect.

Orc

• Brawny: Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500 1000.

• High Elves gaining Stamina? WHAT? Class Ability? No, Magicka Ability!
• Wood Elves mobility is too high.
• Why 2640 Resistance? 2640 = 4%, while 2310 = 3,5. Accurate numbers, please!
• Dark Elves lose Weapon Damage, but gain Stamina. Much better!

John_Falstaff

@MAGISSCIEN , I thought earlier @Masel brought numbers, and dunmers turn out to be too stamina DPS, no?

amir412

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider the change to % again instead of flat stat to max stamina, magicka & HP,
This change is damaging build diversity by alot which is already damaged, and limit the way players want to play.

Choosing to stack max stats, isnt better than stacking weapon damage etc (7th legion + Fury rather than hulking + shackle for example) - First build will still win, but its fun to know that there is a slightly less powerfull alternative.

Beardimus

Dunmer need some help there, bit of regen, or something for the magika loss. (or more magika)

feels very bland

Lord_Eomer

amir412 wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider the change to % again instead of flat stat to max stamina, magicka & HP,
This change is damaging build diversity by alot which is already damaged, and limit the way players want to play.

Choosing to stack max stats, isnt better than stacking weapon damage etc (7th legion + Fury rather than hulking + shackle for example) - First build will still win, but its fun to know that there is a slightly less powerfull alternative.

Lol my build his build that build,

There is no need for %multiplier, ZOS moving into right direction.

Many players explained some class benefits from this and some loss very little stats.

Olupajmibanan

Orc (or even Dunmer) might turn better end-game stam DPS than Redguard, especially on classes that have plenty of their own sustain (e.g. stamNB or stamWarden).

KuroDark

Raudgrani wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

I would like to see the ulti gen cooldown shorter on the Nord, bring it down to like 8 seconds.

Make it no cooldown whatsoever, and it might start to get close to compensating all the other stuff they messed up.

Can't see why they simply didn't make MORPHS of racial passives. So that you COULD remain the same, or fiddle around with this if you wanted to make an "ulti poop tank", an Orc magsorc, or a Khajiit healer. Why, just WHY do they need to turn the game completely upside down every time they decide to "balance" something? Some of us are pretty pleased with the characters we made, and we don't want to theory craft and spend a fortune on armor etc. once every six months.

This.

But of course no one cares about that, as long as people will pay for race change tokens every year...

macsmooth

[snip] You made bis races still bis races

You didn’t even make skill lines passives useful after you levelled them to 50, it wasn’t hard to do making a imperial have cost reduction to s&b skills, a nord cost reduction to 2h skills and so on, Breton cost reduction to light armour skill and the ability to use the skill regardless of armour weight and so on. It really wasn’t hard to make the passives useful after getting them to level 50

The races has the apprentice/warrior Mundus stone built in to passive, instead of effecting elemental/poison damage it’s a flat increase to all damage

The 2k stats is only comparable to tank builds that only had 20k stam and mag anything over 20k lost stats now

I would like a refund on my imperial purchase please you took her stats away from her and gave the dune ripper 5th piece as a passive

You managed to nerf a nord wow, how does 9% health translate to 1k health when other races that had 10% health got nerfed to 2k health

Kat just lost more sustain wow like my kat stam sorcerer didn’t need help with sustain at all

These flat health recovery bonuses, is that before or after vampirism or defile?
[edited for bashing]

macsmooth

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

macsmooth wrote: »

[snip] You made bis races still bis races

You didn’t even make skill lines passives useful after you levelled them to 50, it wasn’t hard to do making a imperial have cost reduction to s&b skills, a nord cost reduction to 2h skills and so on, Breton cost reduction to light armour skill and the ability to use the skill regardless of armour weight and so on. It really wasn’t hard to make the passives useful after getting them to level 50

The races has the apprentice/warrior Mundus stone built in to passive, instead of effecting elemental/poison damage it’s a flat increase to all damage

The 2k stats is only comparable to tank builds that only had 20k stam and mag anything over 20k lost stats now

I would like a refund on my imperial purchase please you took her stats away from her and gave the dune ripper 5th piece as a passive

You managed to nerf a nord wow, how does 9% health translate to 1k health when other races that had 10% health got nerfed to 2k health

Kat just lost more sustain wow like my kat stam sorcerer didn’t need help with sustain at all

These flat health recovery bonuses, is that before or after vampirism or defile?

[snip]

36 pages and multiple threads nah I will stay with my learn to read issues not play issues thank you and complain about the changes as I see them like everyone else that has a right to say what they won’t as they see them

[edited to remove quote]

InvictusApollo

Lets make some analysis for Altmer magicka sorcerer.
Every 10.46 max magicka equals 1 spell damage. This means that 258 addidtional SD equals 2698,68 additional max magicka. Together with flat max magicka increase, we are geting around 4,7k "max magicka". In order to get that number before patch, we would need to have 47k max magicka without racial passive. This looks like a buff untill we take into consideration that we are losing additional 4% elemental damage. Furthermore the most important skill for sorcerer's survival is Hardened Ward. Which scales only from magicka. Splitting our max magicka to max magicka and spell damage means that we will get lower ward value.
After the patch we will have:

1. Lower shields since there will be less maximum magicka.
2. Lower overal elemental damage (execute and Flame Reach).
3. Higher non elemental damage (Crystal Frags, Curse, etc.)
4. Higher healing.
5. More or less the same sustain since every magicka sorcerer uses class ability at least once every few seconds.

If anyone knows how max magicka or spell damage relate to damage incresae in percentages, please share that knowledge.

amir412

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reconsider the change to % again instead of flat stat to max stamina, magicka & HP,
This change is damaging build diversity by alot which is already damaged, and limit the way players want to play.

Choosing to stack max stats, isnt better than stacking weapon damage etc (7th legion + Fury rather than hulking + shackle for example) - First build will still win, but its fun to know that there is a slightly less powerfull alternative.

Lol my build his build that build,

There is no need for %multiplier, ZOS moving into right direction.

Many players explained some class benefits from this and some loss very little stats.

This is a change that benefits roleplayers that want to play mediocre builds, aka redguard mag sorc etc..
Thats the only benefit this race change is giving (beside some races that actually deserved a buff) - Please enlighten me, how some class benefits from this? Can u be more specific? Why there is no need for % modifiers? What are u even saying here?

martijnlv40

macsmooth wrote: »

[snip] You made bis races still bis races

You didn’t even make skill lines passives useful after you levelled them to 50, it wasn’t hard to do making a imperial have cost reduction to s&b skills, a nord cost reduction to 2h skills and so on, Breton cost reduction to light armour skill and the ability to use the skill regardless of armour weight and so on. It really wasn’t hard to make the passives useful after getting them to level 50

The races has the apprentice/warrior Mundus stone built in to passive, instead of effecting elemental/poison damage it’s a flat increase to all damage

The 2k stats is only comparable to tank builds that only had 20k stam and mag anything over 20k lost stats now

I would like a refund on my imperial purchase please you took her stats away from her and gave the dune ripper 5th piece as a passive

You managed to nerf a nord wow, how does 9% health translate to 1k health when other races that had 10% health got nerfed to 2k health

Kat just lost more sustain wow like my kat stam sorcerer didn’t need help with sustain at all

These flat health recovery bonuses, is that before or after vampirism or defile?

macsmooth wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

macsmooth wrote: »

[snip] You made bis races still bis races

You didn’t even make skill lines passives useful after you levelled them to 50, it wasn’t hard to do making a imperial have cost reduction to s&b skills, a nord cost reduction to 2h skills and so on, Breton cost reduction to light armour skill and the ability to use the skill regardless of armour weight and so on. It really wasn’t hard to make the passives useful after getting them to level 50

The races has the apprentice/warrior Mundus stone built in to passive, instead of effecting elemental/poison damage it’s a flat increase to all damage

The 2k stats is only comparable to tank builds that only had 20k stam and mag anything over 20k lost stats now

I would like a refund on my imperial purchase please you took her stats away from her and gave the dune ripper 5th piece as a passive

You managed to nerf a nord wow, how does 9% health translate to 1k health when other races that had 10% health got nerfed to 2k health

Kat just lost more sustain wow like my kat stam sorcerer didn’t need help with sustain at all

These flat health recovery bonuses, is that before or after vampirism or defile?

[snip]

36 pages and multiple threads nah I will stay with my learn to read issues not play issues thank you and complain about the changes as I see them like everyone else that has a right to say what they won’t as they see them

Yeah sure, but you're wrong on some of the math. I think it will do you well to watch t3hasiangod's video on this. He does the math pretty well on dps, and he also mentions some sustain.
On thing I clearly know to be wrong, is that the Khajiit lost sustain; you forget that the light armour passives and major intellect are mostly up, which translates to a 115 recovery increase. You had to have 1150 base recovery to be nerfed this way, which is too high for any dps build. Yes you should reach that number, but not on base recovery.

[edited to remove quote]

Na0cho

Personally I have a variety of races and classes. I have mag and Stam characters.

I really hate altmer, and always have. I don’t want to play one. I hate the look the lore, I hate elves in any setting.

That being said. [snip]

I don’t always min max every character but you aren’t leaving much of a choice.

My Dunmer feels crapped on.
My Breton seems ok but doesn’t make up for the above.
I have many Orc’s and one Redguard. Will see how that goes.

I have no bosmer because I dislike elves but man did they get the shaft or what.

I have imperial dlc but never made one because they also disinterest me.

Have one khajit. But rarely play it. Seems like they got whacked a bit too but some people who play them mag will do a little better than before.

Nords have needed love for a long time so I guess anything would be good there.

I have couple argonian non tanks and probably will race change them now. Even though they weren’t meta before I feel they will suffer more now.

I can deal with most of these but PLEASE PLEASE FIX DUNMER.

Competitive end game mag chars should have MORE THAN ONE viable option.

Wasn’t that the whole point of the revamp?

[edited for profanity bypass]

KatySpirit

MAGISSCIEN wrote: »

This all looks great and excellently balanced EXCEPT Dunmer.

My thoughts.

As has been stated above they are losing out to the other races for Magicka builds and Stamina builds. There are no viable hybrid dps builds and any that are tried always fail. The flame resist is only a 3% reduction and is way too situational compared to the other 2 magicka races specifically.

Ideas.
1. Switching the 600 health to 600 magicka or stamina based on whichever is higher would definitely help here.
2. Another thought as we do not have morphs for racial skills might be something like the example below.

Destructive Ancestry: Increases your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage(Whichever is higher) by 387 *This one alone would probably balance Dunmer and Altmer as they were before.

Feel free to quote me on this anyone if you like the idea. Would definitely help it get noticed.

I agree with health changing to the higher resource pool instead...600 health is a joke, it won't be noticeable on a tank and it won't save a DPS. 600 magic/stamina, however, is a little more damage and that would let dunmer remain somewhat comparable with the magic classes from the other two alliances. 1250 + 600 = 1850 magic which is only a little less than the 2000 of the other two magic races, making it closer to the 9% to 10% difference we have at present. I would love morphs, I'd gladly give up all stamina perks in a morph to keep higher magic on my dunmer magic DPS; if I can dodgeroll on a breton I can dodgeroll on weedy mage option dunmer. I am sure stamina DPS would do the same, they don't need magic.

I have to say I am really disappointed in these changes for far more than just the overall loss of resources everywhere. They have not made it any more plausible to play any race for any role as I was hoping they would. Khajiit is is the only one that they did that for (which I appreciate since I have wanted to play a magic khajiit) however 1 out of 10 is not a passing score and I don't know how well khajiit will compare to those that are focused on either magic or stamina instead of both. What about magic bosmer or redguard? What about a stamina altmer or breton? The little return of stamina that altmer will get is only helpful to tanks, not DPS. And instead of making dunmer good for both, they are going to be mediocre for both.

Also I know they have dragged down everyone. While I said altmer will be better than dunmer for magic DPS I assure you I am not saying altmer will be better than altmer are NOW. They are taking a nerf too and my altmer characters will feel it, it's just that the nerf to dunmer is even worse, making them no longer comparable. With a small difference between numbers of the magic races becoming a more significant one, there will be no point in playing magic dunmer unless you want to RP (and I would rather do more than RP a DPS).