What is your number 1 concern about racial changes right now?

xMovingTarget · January 2019

Dunmer. Enough about it has been said. It is just not an option for anything anymore. No race flavor. just a bad mix match of what other races can do better.

Starlock · January 2019

None, really. Like other changes the developers have made, they've stayed generally respectful of lore while making shifts that don't really impact a player like me who isn't into competitive gaming. It's actually kind of creepy how the changes enhance the characters I've developed:

I've had a magical cat for a long time. She will now get spell crit and be more awesome at what she does.
My bosmer, who I designed around combat mobility, will get more of that too. It'll be stupidly fun.
My dunmer, who is a non-staff magicka character, will have somewhat better light/heavy attacks now.
My imperial will have a better and more reliable self-heal with his racial.
My high elf will continue to be awesome at what he does too.

The only thing I'm a teeny bit concerned about is the health pool for my imperial, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a big deal.

Krayl · January 2019

Fine with the changes - we just need more free race change tokens. 1 is inadequate.

Elijah_Crow · January 2019

Anyone who wants to play a stealthy character now must play a Khajit. They effectively eliminated Bosmer as an option. That doesn’t seem like more choices to me.

Most of the changes make sense, but this one does not.

Emma_Overload · January 2019

Fvh09NL wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I only regret that it will cost some crowns to try ALL the races, but I like the fact that there are so many appealing choices! I hated being forced to run Altmer on my Sorcs because it was so much better than anything else.

And now you certainly have to run Altmer, even Dunmer doesnt come close as a mag dps anymore. Maybe Breton became somewhat more viable, but Altmer is now without a doubt best mag dps.

I mostly do PvP now. Even Redguard might be a decent choice for certain builds.

RaddlemanNumber7 · January 2019

Tasear wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

The thing that bothers me the most is that these changes to Racial Passives have effects which go way beyond combat metrics.

Some of the racial passives that are being deleted from the game have been defining features of those races since ESO began, nearly 5 years ago. I have created character builds, passive RP characterisations and back stories around those passives. I have made a heavy investment in them over the years. I sure many other players have too.

Two of my Dunmer seem to be the worst affected. Both are DK's, one mag, one Pelinal's hybrid. The flame damage bonus is central to their respective builds, and has thus become the corner stone on which I have constructed their characterisations and back stories. The Pelinal's build is already pretty marginal in combat, and may become completely non-viable, even for things like Public Dungeon bosses.

My chief of sneaks is a Bosmer, but it looks like he would now be better suited to the role of sentry rather than ganker. At a stroke he's lost both of the stealth bonuses which together were his entire raison d'être. Not at all sure what I can do with that character now. My Khajiit may have had his claws clipped but at least he can still be a good thief.

I haven't had a chance to check yet, but I'm pretty sure that Argonian poison resistance is referenced in NPC dialogue. IIRC Jee-Lar and Green Venom Tongue both mention it. Looks like the Combat Team have quite literally lost the plot with this one. They certainly seem to be above the lore.

Games are supposed to be fun. Having some of my oldest, most beloved characters mutilated like this is not fun, especially as it seem to be a thing with every update now.

If you find it screenshot issue and post here.

In the Murkmire prep quest to find a Copper Tongued Skink there is no doubt that Jee-Lar is referring to Argonian poison resistance. Copper tongued skinks are said to put even the heartiest Argonian to shame, and that is because they love eating venom.

I can't check Green Venom Tongue's dialogue as he is not available to any of characters.

FrancisCrawford · January 2019

I greatly prefer to play overworld content on a sneaky character, and the one I have is a Bosmer thief.

katorga · January 2019

They should add one additional free race change that only functions for Dunmer magicka DK's.

Nord with 1 ultimate every 2 seconds, hmmm. Stack that with werewolf hide, 1 every 5, major heroism, minor heroism, warden ultimate passives, and decisive trait....pure ult spam. There is a lot you can build around that passive.

overall, nerfs to health stats across the board. Should shake up tank builds a lot.

Altmer best all around choice for magicka dps and heal builds with Breton and Khajiit being niche options for specific builds. Dunmer and Argonian, OK, but not best at anything.

Redguard still best stam sustain, with WoodElf being ok, and Orc being a decent mix of damage/sustain. Still thinking about how the 20% movement buff after roll dodge compares to Orc sprint passive for PVP.

Altmer changes are so good, I expect them to get nerfed prior to go live.

Percentage reductions get hit hard by diminishing returns, so I generally don't rate them highly, so Nord losing 6% damage reduction isn't that bad, Breton and Redguard cost reduction isn't that good.

Altmer 5% damage reduction while channeling seems meh, but stacking with Cyrodill's Light, Mist form or Deep Thoughts, could be interesting. Being able to channel Deep Thoughts while face tanking people...hmmmmm. That works out to a 12.5% reduction casting sweeps, and 25.7% reduction with Cyrodiil's Light.

Xvorg · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

dunmer having no vaible niche.
every race has one niche where they´ll be absolutely best - dunmer doesn´t have that.

arguable breton is too onedimensional and the cost reduction could be magica and stamina or all abilities.
khajiit recs could all be 100 since their specialty has overall less value than straight dmg

@Derra I don't want to be categoric with that until I see the changes in PTS next Monday. I tend to think that ZoS increased flame dmg in mDK similarly to the sorc energized passive, so having a race with a 7% extra flame dmg and a class with a 5% extra flame dmg could have mean a big buff to the dunmer/DK combo.

If that happens then dunmer vampire DK will be a great option considering the increase to the flame resistance passive. If not, then time to leave this game.

Dracan_Fontom · January 2019

My biggest concern is the flat weapon and spell damage increases that some races get.

Beardimus · January 2019

Derra wrote: »

dunmer having no vaible niche.
every race has one niche where they´ll be absolutely best - dunmer doesn´t have that.

arguable breton is too onedimensional and the cost reduction could be magica and stamina or all abilities.
khajiit recs could all be 100 since their specialty has overall less value than straight dmg

I'm with derra Dunmer need something more. That health needs to change perhaps or more regen or SD. Just a tad

Also open imperial up a tad more

Flat stats over % i like

Pevey · January 2019

I think in addition to the one free race change per account, we should get one free race change token for every bosmer, dunmer, and redguard toon we already have.

FakeFox · January 2019

Fixed stats instead of percentage scaling.

lassitershawn · January 2019

Pros:
Altmer - Still strong magicka race, no complaints.
Breton - Only compliments. Strong PvP magicka race, support magicka race, crazy sustain.
Orc - While it could use maybe a bit more max stam as people are saying, this looks like a strong race with a lot of WD and some sustain. Overall plus I'd say.
Khajiit - Will be hella cool to be able to make a mag khajiit. Regen passive could use a buff, 75 is bad.
Nord - THANK YOU ZOS. Been waiting so long for nord to take its rightful throne. Gonna be hella good PvE tank race, hella good DK race.
Bosmer - I think this is a sustain buff for most builds and the extra speed will be strong in PvP. I think this is only nerfed if you are a stealthy toon and tbh I think the stealth nerf could be easily undone without making bosmer OP.
Redguard - Still strong stamina race, no complaints.

Neutral:
Imperial - Looks like it will be a strong tank race but I don't think it is much (or at all) tankier than nord and it does not have the ult gen passive that will make nords very strong PvE tanks now. Needs buffs to tankiness imo.

Cons:
Dunmer - Will not be BiS for any build I can think of. Previously there was a nice balance between altmer and dunmer with dunmer being slightly more DPS altmer slightly more sustain. Losing % flame damage is jarring RP wise. Needs buffs.
Argonian - Looks pretty bad now, I think both imperials and nords will outclass it as tank with breton maybe matching it and outclassing it as a healer. Give it poison AND disease resist and 2k HP. Revert quick to mend.

CleymenZero · January 2019

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Only 1 free race change given. It should be 1 per character, not 1 per account.

Monetizing game balance changes is just plain wrong.

This a thousand times, many people have even bought character slots and should have more than 10 toons, imagine the cost to fix every single race for a change not under their decisions. Oof

Ohh really? Then this a million times!!! Beat that!

Faulgor · January 2019

I don't like how Orcs are lagging behind everybody else in max stats. Historically, lore-wise, they've been at the top of sturdy races, with maximum starting bonuses in Willpower and Endurance in Morrowind / Oblivion, which increase health and stamina. There's no sense to keep them so squishy when the other race with a weapon damage passive, Dunmer, has three times as much max stats.

Orcs should have 1000 health / stamina instead of 500, IMO.

Elsonso · January 2019

Tasear wrote: »

What is your biggest issue with race changes right now as proposed?

Players making statements of doom before it even hits PTS.

olsborg · January 2019

The races that zos mentioned in their tread was "hybrid friendly" when hybrids arent really viable for high end gameplay and pvp. So why have races that are good for something that really isnt a viable way to play the game.

Fischblut · January 2019

I don't like removal of percentage-based stats most of all

Also complete removal of max magicka from dunmer is very sad, as well as removal of Rugged unique passive from nords, or Healing received from argonians. I'm all for adding more of nice and different passives for all races, but without taking anything away/replacing current ones.

SirLeeMinion · January 2019

I have a lot of max level characters. For most, I chose their race to match their intended class and role. For many, their name relates to their race or role. We get one (1) (an) single race change token per account. We get zero (0) (not a single) name change token. There is no (n/a) (null set) class change token in existence.

My PvE Bosmer thief now needs to become a PvP counter ganker (stealth detection passive, really?), my Dunmer magDK needs to do more crafting (got a head start on this after the murkmire shield nerf), my Argonian tank (which, incidently I paid to race change so as to be a better tank)... well, it's too soon to tell what that character will do. All this doesn't matter because, previous balance passes have shown that the devs scarcely listen to input from the player base and the PTS.

So, my biggest concern... Frankly, it's that I've come to dread new updates. Instead of looking forward to the new content, I find myself disappointed by the incoming nerfs and changes (looking at you Morrowind and Murkmire). I shrug at incoming dungeons that will likely be very difficult to solo, unenjoyable to PUG, and not worth waiting for in the queue in any event. There are many games where I really look forward to updates and new DLCs, in contrast, ESO patch notes are usually a kill-joy. I find myself feeling ripped-off, unheard, and under-valued as a customer. Inevitably, I wind-up playing other games and taking a break from ESO for months. It shouldn't be this way.

Actually, I think I'm done with the forums, too. What's the point?

DoobZ69 · January 2019

My biggest dread is that all suggestions and concerns fall on deaf ears.
Changes proposed do not fit in with what is actually presented.
PTS testing and feedback has historically been ignored and will most likely continue to be.

I was hoping for all races to be made viable across all roles. What seems to have happened is they lowered the impact the passives actually provide. That is a positive move. Now instead of race choice being very important for character creation it went down to important. However, they have emphasised the specific niche advantages for some races, such as the High Elf magDPS dominance, even more so than before and that is very negative.

Lastly, the main problem I have with the racials is that they still shoe-horn the races into certain playstyles/roles without leaving any room for flexibility after the character creation. The Khajit can be more magDPS, positive move. Nord can't really be considered for non-tanking, negative move.

Overall there are positive moves and negative moves. But it shifts the META rather than eliminating it. So the overall result is ultimately bad because it forces people to re-do their character races if they are affected by this shift.

The goal should be to allow any race to not be shoehorned into a role or play style at any point in the character's existence. They woefully missed the mark. Devastating to say the least. It just shows that they either have an agenda or have no idea what they are doing or what they want.

By the way my main is a DK Dunmer tank. i'm very happy with the changes for her for my reasons.

HatchetHaro · January 2019

The lack of balance as a whole. The nerfs are all actually really justified, but the buffs are nonsensical. Some races get buffed a ton that they become balanced with other OP races, which is nice, but some races are just left in the dust after being nerfed with nothing to help with their damage output, e.g. Argonians and Nords.

usmcjdking · January 2019

My initial reaction is that these generally look very good and show a lot of promise.

I am of the opinion that this is the beginning of general revamping of ESO combat in both how the player interacts with it and how the environment interacts with the player to be more dynamic, require more flexible play and generally be more unforgiving whilst becoming less demanding. It appears that it may be coming in at a pace that is both acceptable and welcomed.

There are reservations I have though. ZOS has, at times, moved notoriously slow on certain aspects of the game and moved quickly on others which means that you cannot assume with certainty that the game will progress in the aforementioned manner in a reasonable time frame.

The other reservation I have is that the core of the game may not be strong enough to support the inevitable impact the next successful MMO breakthrough brings upon it. As strong as the ES IP is, ESO may be operating somewhat in a false vacuum where the majority of good players play ESO because there isn't a better MMO out there instead of playing ESO to experience ESO itself.

The changes signal an amazing turn in ESO's development. Hopefully it's right on time and executed with vigor.

Crixus8000 · January 2019

Orcs need higher hp + stam and khajiit need higher recovery.

Darkmage1337 · January 2019

I'll just leave this here.

Jameliel wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

With this recent change, are the upcoming racial passives going to be reviewed in depth?

What's most concerning is some of the changes made that remove the effectiveness of some of the most icon TES racial builds:

Removing bonus damage to fire removes the heart from the Dunmer. For ESO specifically, this combined with the lower of max stat has effectively hamstrung Dunmer Firemages and Dumner MagDKs, leaving Altmer as the much more effective choice.

Removing bonus to sneak and damage from stealth from the Bosmer remove one of their most iconic abilities as stealthy little forest elves. And to make it worse for them these are replaced with a bonus to speed after a dodge roll which is redundant as most use a bow anyways which already has that ability. Edit: And which was replaced with bonuses to detection, which is only useful to PvP and worthless in all other aspects of the game; most would argue its worthless in PvP as well. Please at the very least switch this back to straight up stealth.

These are just the two most obvious hits to classic TES identity to races, but they're the most important as these two races appear to be left behind in the dust compared to how the other races are weathering the changes.

Please pay attention to this man's post.

Completely and wholly agreed.

joseayalac · January 2019

I actually love the Dunmer changes and probably all my next characters are going to be Dunmer!

It's not a bad option for either stam or mag and I absolutely love the flexibility.

People complain because it's not unbalanced like before.

BlueRaven · January 2019

I am really kind of ticked off at the loss of stealth on Bosmer's. So now only ONE race is good at Stealthing? There is multiple races that are good at spell casting, multiple races that are good at tanking. Why not have multiple races that are good at stealth? Maybe ANOTHER race should have gotten a stealth buff along with Bosmer and Kahjit.

Also the Bosmer detection buff is ONLY good in PvP. It is the only rRace that has a racial that is only good in PvP and that feels like a waste.

Please bring back stealth for Bosmers!!!!

Banana · January 2019

None. I like em

joseayalac · January 2019

HatchetHaro wrote: »

The lack of balance as a whole. The nerfs are all actually really justified, but the buffs are nonsensical. Some races get buffed a ton that they become balanced with other OP races, which is nice, but some races are just left in the dust after being nerfed with nothing to help with their damage output, e.g. Argonians and Nords.

Well if you have tanky passives then your other choices regarding your build can go totally for damage.

For example if you go Nord you won't need health glyphs or tanky sets etc. so you can go full damage.

joseayalac · January 2019

Bosmer's speed is overpowered. It's the only passive that I think is actually unbalanced.