Skyshards account bound

Tandor · December 2018

Fleshreaper wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

<snip>
On a last note quality of life changes are always needed to improve the state of the game. The more content we get the more quality of life is needed. <snip>

Dumbing down the gameplay is not a quality of life improvement, and your second sentence gives away the true purpose behind the proposal. As a game gets larger, it should take longer to complete it - why else add more content? For a small subset of players tho', as a game gets larger it needs to be made easier.

Time spent on a game comes in two ways. First, how long you have available per week, and second, how many weeks it takes to achieve your ambitions. There seems to be an assumption that if Player A has 50 hours per week and can therefore "finish" the content in X weeks, because Player B only has 25 hours per week the game should be simplified so that he too can finish it in X weeks. What's wrong with the idea that if Player B only has half the time that Player A has it'll take him twice as long to "finish" the content?

Yet time and again in this sort of thread we see patronising comments about how players opposed to dumbing down the game don't have "proper jobs", aren't "casual players", and should "get real" and understand that not everybody can afford to take more than a few hours to level a character for "endgame". I've only been playing an hour or two a day at most since launch and have 28 characters, yet I'm relaxed about the time it's taking me to progress them and I don't camp the forum demanding shortcuts and handouts. MMORPGs are intended to be played for years rather than weeks or months, and just because you choose to level from 1 to 50 in a couple of days at a dolmen or in a dungeon doesn't mean you should then immediately be entitled to receive all the skyshard achievements that a previous character earned.

"Quality of life improvements" are things like providing a proper search function at trader kiosks, or implementing a re-order function on the character selection screen, not structural gameplay changes.

@Tandor So, you are all in favor of making CPs character bound instead of account bound. Because if you are not, then your hole statement there goes right up in flames. As it's just "YOUR" opinion as to what you feel is acceptable amount of grinding. I would really like to know your opinion on CPs....

Yes, my position was made quite clear as long ago as Post #255 on Page 9, I would personally prefer everything to be character-specific, and that of course includes both CPs and dye unlocks, for example. So far as banking is concerned, I would prefer systems like that in EQ and EQ2 where the bank slots are a mixture of mainly character-held items with some additional shared slots. I no longer have any interest in guilds, but when I was active in guilds I preferred a system in which individual characters were recruited to a guild rather than the whole account.

However, I also made clear in that post that I recognise that there are two different views on this subject and while some would like everything to be character-specific, others would prefer everything to be account-wide. I don't actively lobby for changes because given the different views held I believe that ZOS have struck a fair balance in making some things like lorebooks, skyshards and most achievements character-specific while having other things like CPs, dye unlocks and collections account-wide. The only people seeking to change that balance are those who want to make the game easier, while there are plenty of other threads in which people claim that it is far too easy already.

My hope (and expectation) is that ZOS would leave things well alone, as there is already a fair compromise in place between the two opposing views. I have no objection if people want to buy expensive "instant maxed character" crown tokens once they have completed everything on one character, but not in terms of more fundamental gameplay changes for everyone masquerading as QoL improvements (even if they are made "optional", as we know that if players don't opt for the perceived "must do" switch then they will simply be kicked from groups).

NoMoreChillies · December 2018

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer. We love our DPS characters and dont want to change them, thus we have to make new. Now instead of playing with our 3 friends, 2 of us are bored chasing skyshards and the other 2 are bored waiting for us to catch up. 4 friends not playing together now asking themselves why are they playing this MMORPG if they cant play together for the next x hours?

If you are against account bound skyshards toggle, you are selfish. Toggle off/on.
It affects you in no way, shape or form.

Androconium · December 2018

TheTombstone wrote: »

So, I played on EU and NA, and am coming back from a long break. I never got max level on NA, and have been working towards that since I've been back, and a thought occurred to me.

Why aren't skyshards account bound after you unlock ALL of them in a region? I mean yes, it is fun to have to explore the map again and again, but it does get tedious. Especially since there is over 400 of them. No one wants to do that over and over again. Sure, it would hurt some PvP aspects, but ultimately, it would save the player time.

It wouldn't be the first time the game lets you skip content either, if I remember correctly, You can skip the main story line if you've beaten it, once. You can skip the tutorial, if you've done it once, so why not also offer the option to do this? It would make collecting skyshards feel more rewarding. It would be easy to implement as well, at least in my mind.

Saving the player time might work for players. But then you might actually finish something.
We can't have that, you might stop subscribing.

Why are there 23 pages of guff here? This is the real issue.

corpseblade · December 2018

1. Account-wide skyshards are not quality-of-life improvements, they are game-changing and designed to assist you to reach max-level as quickly as possible.
2. MMORPGs are character-based. Each individual character earns its own progression. Is this the first MMORPG for many who are asking for this?
3. Some mature MMORPGs allow you to purchase a close to max-level single character. ESO doesn't appear to be old enough in its life cycle yet to offer this option.
4. If it were to offer the option, how much would you be willing to pay in the crown store? It would likely be a very high price extrapolating from the cost of items in the store.
5. ESO is not rushing everyone to endgame. They have a huge world that is added to constantly. Their servers do not seem designed to have a sudden influx of end-gamers. Is it pvpers that want this change?
6. My biases: I have a massive number of characters. Each are individuals. I do not use CP on my other characters (only one 50). I love wandering and exploring so the thought of account-wide anything is horrific. I have played at least 10 mmorpgs over many years.
7. In other games that I have stepped away from for a number of years I have occasionally purchased a max-level character to see new content, but that is not necessary in this game b/c of level-scaling.
8. If you hate alt-leveling in a mmorpg, is it a problem to focus on just your main? If you want to change the game, maybe a different style of mmo is for you?

Taleof2Cities · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer.

You don’t have to be max level to run dungeons with your friends.

There’s no level requirement for normal dungeons ... and the level 45 requirement for vet dungeons is not that difficult to attain.

In addition, the vast majority of players don’t regard dungeons as end game content.

Tandor · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer. We love our DPS characters and dont want to change them, thus we have to make new. Now instead of playing with our 3 friends, 2 of us are bored chasing skyshards and the other 2 are bored waiting for us to catch up. 4 friends not playing together now asking themselves why are they playing this MMORPG if they cant play together for the next x hours?

If you are against account bound skyshards toggle, you are selfish. Toggle off/on.
It affects you in no way, shape or form.

There's nothing remotely selfish about it, a structural gameplay change does affect everyone, for various reasons.

It can't just appear one patch day, it has to be designed, coded and tested - all of which diverts scarce resources from more important development priorities. Not only that, but if it is going to be optional then both systems have to be run in tandem with the option to switch between them at will, a development nightmare. If you make it so that the option can only be exercised once at character creation then there will be any number of tickets from players who decide they made the wrong decision, a support nightmare. Making such a major change to the structure of the gameplay really can't be optional, it isn't remotely viable on that basis, and yet there isn't any evidence that the level of support for such a change is sufficient to warrant forcing it on everyone.

In any event, whenever something game-changing is made optional there is enormous pressure to adopt the change rather than toggle it off, and players will get kicked from groups if they haven't done so.

These sorts of proposal are not QoL improvements, they are structural gameplay changes and as such they impact everyone.

Edziu · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

The only people seeking to change that balance are those who want to make the game easier, while there are plenty of other threads in which people claim that it is far too easy already.

people claim content is to easy its mainly becaus eof CP power creep and jsut becasue basic game is really to easy
people claiming game is to easy they dont even think about exploration because its ofc even easier but then its more booooring

do you remember old days when this game was released? for meny meny of us hard was to kill single group of 3 npc's in open world xD
and now what we have? we lure as many as we can npc's until they reset to burn all of them in single place
same is with every nondlc dung - for older players it jsut run from boss to boss with all trash instead of wasting time for single trash groups because it was to easy and with it to long if killing them separately

I can say similiar is with skyshards - to easy...lol this isnt even challenge - its pure waste time for people who just want to go for veteran content but they are stuck in it because of skillpoints needed

as we hav noe this thread with skushards and many posts how for many people its or fun or no I can give another example like what it is

we run dungeon and ZOS implemented an doorstep through which we cat enter until we kill this single trash mob on which we even dont need any support, any buffs, just everyone of us in group use once aoe damage skill and this is dying and still we are stuck until mechanic/animation will unlock to us this doorstep to go through

and instead of fast run to boss inside to easy dung we are stuck to kill just every monster separately to unlock way to boss - this doesnt seems fun as we cant pull all those mosnter into group, no, we need to walk to every of them every 10 meters in different ways in this room and kill them in melee range while they are still on just 1 hit

does this content looks good, fun for everyone? as skyshards(or just skillpoints) for many to us feels like this to get into vet content on just alt while you have done it before

Tandor · December 2018

Edziu wrote: »

people claim content is to easy its mainly becaus eof CP power creep and jsut becasue basic game is really to easy
people claiming game is to easy they dont even think about exploration because its ofc even easier but then its more booooring

Whether exploration is boring is entirely down to the player, but this is primarily an open world-based PvE game with story and quests such that those who find exploration boring may find it's not for them. It's not designed around the desires of some to jump straight into the endgame.

As you say, people claim the content is too easy already so it doesn't make sense to give them loads more skill points upfront, that would just make it even easier.

It's not CP power creep that makes the content too easy for additional characters, it's the application of hundreds of CPs to low-level characters. Making the same mistake with skill points would just magnify the problem.

Edziu · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

people claim content is to easy its mainly becaus eof CP power creep and jsut becasue basic game is really to easy
people claiming game is to easy they dont even think about exploration because its ofc even easier but then its more booooring

Whether exploration is boring is entirely down to the player, but this is primarily an open world-based PvE game with story and quests such that those who find exploration boring may find it's not for them. It's not designed around the desires of some to jump straight into the endgame.

As you say, people claim the content is too easy already so it doesn't make sense to give them loads more skill points upfront, that would just make it even easier.

It's not CP power creep that makes the content too easy for additional characters, it's the application of hundreds of CPs to low-level characters. Making the same mistake with skill points would just magnify the problem.

hmm but then when ZOS i adding new dlc or something then why its mainly focued for veteran instances in it like dungs, triqals or arenas?

in every next dlc map to exploration is lesser
1st was craglorn and next orsinium as new added map - realy big maps. Then every next dlc we get really small, TG, DB on realy small maps and then every 2nd dlc there is even no map to exploration but only dungs!
even looking at expansions...morrowind is just like orsinium and as it was added much later it is called expansion instead dlc...ok, let it be but then summerset...didnt you notice something different between summerset and morrowind expansion? (Im not looking on map and content design) - even summerset as next expansion is smaller than expansion before

so every new dlc we are getting for sure veteran content ro progress like map but map is smaller in every new dlc and then what ZOS want?

to keep us exploring same areas over and over whiel every new dlc is with even small area? or maybe to progress harder content like dungs as for this in every next dlc is not smaller amount of added new instances and they are even harder to go

I missing point of "exploration is must to be done" as main content in this game to repeat nonstop while isntances (dungs, trials) are different thing as they are created to repeat and progress them
oreven forgotten pvp...we have pvp but for what as for today? before you can go for true pvp as pvp player you are forced to struggle pve for days for not only grind your character different skill lines but also to farm some gear and here we are missing this point "play as you want"

combat and with it its going to pvp system is great and unique in ESO (not looking at balance) and we have...or atlest we had many true pvp's but ugh...still forced to do lame pve exploration instead of having fun of pvp

I dont feel like Im playing as I want (while I want) but this game is more imoses on me how I should play and I should have fun of this (also not looking at meta)

thats why I was stuck for over 3.5 years to single character..ofc I have lvled 7 other chars but guess what///they are *** only as magazines as my willing to running simulator have burn out just after hitting on them 50lvl

Kidgangster101 · December 2018

corpseblade wrote: »

1. Account-wide skyshards are not quality-of-life improvements, they are game-changing and designed to assist you to reach max-level as quickly as possible.
2. MMORPGs are character-based. Each individual character earns its own progression. Is this the first MMORPG for many who are asking for this?
3. Some mature MMORPGs allow you to purchase a close to max-level single character. ESO doesn't appear to be old enough in its life cycle yet to offer this option.
4. If it were to offer the option, how much would you be willing to pay in the crown store? It would likely be a very high price extrapolating from the cost of items in the store.
5. ESO is not rushing everyone to endgame. They have a huge world that is added to constantly. Their servers do not seem designed to have a sudden influx of end-gamers. Is it pvpers that want this change?
6. My biases: I have a massive number of characters. Each are individuals. I do not use CP on my other characters (only one 50). I love wandering and exploring so the thought of account-wide anything is horrific. I have played at least 10 mmorpgs over many years.
7. In other games that I have stepped away from for a number of years I have occasionally purchased a max-level character to see new content, but that is not necessary in this game b/c of level-scaling.
8. If you hate alt-leveling in a mmorpg, is it a problem to focus on just your main? If you want to change the game, maybe a different style of mmo is for you?

Bro max level is cp810. Going from 50-810 is "rushing to max level" I have said it many times I can have the base 64 skill points be 810 and enter max level content just off delves alone.

Giving skill points that assist players to get their passive abilities easier is literally no different than going from 50-810.

I don't want to hear the "I don't use CP on my alts story" because that is just your way of playing. I can clearly see low level toons xping and can clearly tell they have a lot of stats they shouldn't at that level meaning CP was used.

CP is game breaking not skill points. If we removed CP sharing between toons and allowed them to share skill points I 100% guarantee you that players wouldn't be as powerful.

And before people try to say "the CP system was designed to be shared it is working as intended" are the same people that must not fully understand how this game works. Sharing skill points is less powerful than sharing CP lol

corpseblade · December 2018

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

corpseblade wrote: »

1. Account-wide skyshards are not quality-of-life improvements, they are game-changing and designed to assist you to reach max-level as quickly as possible.
2. MMORPGs are character-based. Each individual character earns its own progression. Is this the first MMORPG for many who are asking for this?
3. Some mature MMORPGs allow you to purchase a close to max-level single character. ESO doesn't appear to be old enough in its life cycle yet to offer this option.
4. If it were to offer the option, how much would you be willing to pay in the crown store? It would likely be a very high price extrapolating from the cost of items in the store.
5. ESO is not rushing everyone to endgame. They have a huge world that is added to constantly. Their servers do not seem designed to have a sudden influx of end-gamers. Is it pvpers that want this change?
6. My biases: I have a massive number of characters. Each are individuals. I do not use CP on my other characters (only one 50). I love wandering and exploring so the thought of account-wide anything is horrific. I have played at least 10 mmorpgs over many years.
7. In other games that I have stepped away from for a number of years I have occasionally purchased a max-level character to see new content, but that is not necessary in this game b/c of level-scaling.
8. If you hate alt-leveling in a mmorpg, is it a problem to focus on just your main? If you want to change the game, maybe a different style of mmo is for you?

Bro max level is cp810. Going from 50-810 is "rushing to max level" I have said it many times I can have the base 64 skill points be 810 and enter max level content just off delves alone.

Giving skill points that assist players to get their passive abilities easier is literally no different than going from 50-810.

I don't want to hear the "I don't use CP on my alts story" because that is just your way of playing. I can clearly see low level toons xping and can clearly tell they have a lot of stats they shouldn't at that level meaning CP was used.

CP is game breaking not skill points. If we removed CP sharing between toons and allowed them to share skill points I 100% guarantee you that players wouldn't be as powerful.

And before people try to say "the CP system was designed to be shared it is working as intended" are the same people that must not fully understand how this game works. Sharing skill points is less powerful than sharing CP lol

Ummmm, I'm not a bro.

My point was that I have no dog in the fight about CP points. Make them individual if that is what you are advocating, but they never were. Take something away and hear the screams. But is that what you want? If you can't level skyshards more than once, what about CPs?

Why not ask ZOS to put a max-level character in the Crown store that becomes available once you complete everything? How much is it worth to you? 10k crowns? 20k? Win-win. You don't have to play the majority of the game, ESO is supported and can make more content for the rest of us, and this everloving debate can end (or shift to cost complaints).

Malmai · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, I want to play the game fully with all my characters, not have one achieve stuff which the rest are then handed on a plate just because I've done it once.

Haha now you know why ZOS dont give a a... If this is ESO playerbase...

kargen27 · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer. We love our DPS characters and dont want to change them, thus we have to make new. Now instead of playing with our 3 friends, 2 of us are bored chasing skyshards and the other 2 are bored waiting for us to catch up. 4 friends not playing together now asking themselves why are they playing this MMORPG if they cant play together for the next x hours?

If you are against account bound skyshards toggle, you are selfish. Toggle off/on.
It affects you in no way, shape or form.

All four of you can create a tank and a healer. Then you rotate roles doing the random daily and maybe a couple of other dungeons. If each player does a tank and a healer the group will get eight random dailies in. Sneak in a few dolmen runs and with the double XP event about to hit you will be at 50 in no time.

You also get the benefit when you want to run a pledge you can run them on four different characters assuming each has two DPS characters and why not level up another DPS while leveling your healers and tanks as a group. That means four times the undaunted keys daily and no need to pug anything. Also no need to pug when farming gear and your group can switch out roles so running the same thing again and again for that last dagger won't feel quite so tedious.

Take full advantage of the double XP happening and you and your three friends can all have another DPS a healer and a tank for each of you. If you all start the new characters together you will be able to play together as you level them.

teladoy · December 2018

I think they should do it. Because now you can level up a character so fast that after you don't have enough skill points.

If they don't do it at least they should give more skill points as you level up your character, because right now it is very tedious.

kargen27 · December 2018

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

corpseblade wrote: »

1. Account-wide skyshards are not quality-of-life improvements, they are game-changing and designed to assist you to reach max-level as quickly as possible.
2. MMORPGs are character-based. Each individual character earns its own progression. Is this the first MMORPG for many who are asking for this?
3. Some mature MMORPGs allow you to purchase a close to max-level single character. ESO doesn't appear to be old enough in its life cycle yet to offer this option.
4. If it were to offer the option, how much would you be willing to pay in the crown store? It would likely be a very high price extrapolating from the cost of items in the store.
5. ESO is not rushing everyone to endgame. They have a huge world that is added to constantly. Their servers do not seem designed to have a sudden influx of end-gamers. Is it pvpers that want this change?
6. My biases: I have a massive number of characters. Each are individuals. I do not use CP on my other characters (only one 50). I love wandering and exploring so the thought of account-wide anything is horrific. I have played at least 10 mmorpgs over many years.
7. In other games that I have stepped away from for a number of years I have occasionally purchased a max-level character to see new content, but that is not necessary in this game b/c of level-scaling.
8. If you hate alt-leveling in a mmorpg, is it a problem to focus on just your main? If you want to change the game, maybe a different style of mmo is for you?

Bro max level is cp810. Going from 50-810 is "rushing to max level" I have said it many times I can have the base 64 skill points be 810 and enter max level content just off delves alone.

Giving skill points that assist players to get their passive abilities easier is literally no different than going from 50-810.

I don't want to hear the "I don't use CP on my alts story" because that is just your way of playing. I can clearly see low level toons xping and can clearly tell they have a lot of stats they shouldn't at that level meaning CP was used.

CP is game breaking not skill points. If we removed CP sharing between toons and allowed them to share skill points I 100% guarantee you that players wouldn't be as powerful.

And before people try to say "the CP system was designed to be shared it is working as intended" are the same people that must not fully understand how this game works. Sharing skill points is less powerful than sharing CP lol

The thing here is this. Not sharing skyshards means repeating content. MMOs survive by players repeating a variety of content. Champion Points can be gained doing anything in the game. That means they don't promote repeating content in the way chasing lore books, sky shards or gear sets does. There is a method to the madness.

NoMoreChillies · December 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer. We love our DPS characters and dont want to change them, thus we have to make new. Now instead of playing with our 3 friends, 2 of us are bored chasing skyshards and the other 2 are bored waiting for us to catch up. 4 friends not playing together now asking themselves why are they playing this MMORPG if they cant play together for the next x hours?

If you are against account bound skyshards toggle, you are selfish. Toggle off/on.
It affects you in no way, shape or form.

All four of you can create a tank and a healer. Then you rotate roles doing the random daily and maybe a couple of other dungeons. If each player does a tank and a healer the group will get eight random dailies in. Sneak in a few dolmen runs and with the double XP event about to hit you will be at 50 in no time.

You also get the benefit when you want to run a pledge you can run them on four different characters assuming each has two DPS characters and why not level up another DPS while leveling your healers and tanks as a group. That means four times the undaunted keys daily and no need to pug anything. Also no need to pug when farming gear and your group can switch out roles so running the same thing again and again for that last dagger won't feel quite so tedious.

Take full advantage of the double XP happening and you and your three friends can all have another DPS a healer and a tank for each of you. If you all start the new characters together you will be able to play together as you level them.

and every new character will be without the skyshards, forced to "explore" again. Good Job reinforcing my point.

And for the argument *the game was not designed for account bound skyshards*
The game was not designed for CP, not designed for Jewelry crafting and players having 3 complete set bonuses, not designed for proc sets, not designed for max stat builds (launch had softcaps). Yet here we are

Kidgangster101 · December 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

corpseblade wrote: »

1. Account-wide skyshards are not quality-of-life improvements, they are game-changing and designed to assist you to reach max-level as quickly as possible.
2. MMORPGs are character-based. Each individual character earns its own progression. Is this the first MMORPG for many who are asking for this?
3. Some mature MMORPGs allow you to purchase a close to max-level single character. ESO doesn't appear to be old enough in its life cycle yet to offer this option.
4. If it were to offer the option, how much would you be willing to pay in the crown store? It would likely be a very high price extrapolating from the cost of items in the store.
5. ESO is not rushing everyone to endgame. They have a huge world that is added to constantly. Their servers do not seem designed to have a sudden influx of end-gamers. Is it pvpers that want this change?
6. My biases: I have a massive number of characters. Each are individuals. I do not use CP on my other characters (only one 50). I love wandering and exploring so the thought of account-wide anything is horrific. I have played at least 10 mmorpgs over many years.
7. In other games that I have stepped away from for a number of years I have occasionally purchased a max-level character to see new content, but that is not necessary in this game b/c of level-scaling.
8. If you hate alt-leveling in a mmorpg, is it a problem to focus on just your main? If you want to change the game, maybe a different style of mmo is for you?

Bro max level is cp810. Going from 50-810 is "rushing to max level" I have said it many times I can have the base 64 skill points be 810 and enter max level content just off delves alone.

Giving skill points that assist players to get their passive abilities easier is literally no different than going from 50-810.

I don't want to hear the "I don't use CP on my alts story" because that is just your way of playing. I can clearly see low level toons xping and can clearly tell they have a lot of stats they shouldn't at that level meaning CP was used.

CP is game breaking not skill points. If we removed CP sharing between toons and allowed them to share skill points I 100% guarantee you that players wouldn't be as powerful.

And before people try to say "the CP system was designed to be shared it is working as intended" are the same people that must not fully understand how this game works. Sharing skill points is less powerful than sharing CP lol

The thing here is this. Not sharing skyshards means repeating content. MMOs survive by players repeating a variety of content. Champion Points can be gained doing anything in the game. That means they don't promote repeating content in the way chasing lore books, sky shards or gear sets does. There is a method to the madness.

Your idea of "content" is very very very very small if you actually think skyshards are needed when there is what 6+ dlc and 2 full expansions? Lololol ALL of that is content you run plus the full normal game. If we make skyshards account bound it will not change people running content there is so much available. And this game should push you into those new areas rather than wanting you to just collect skyshards in older areas. They put in all this work on their dlc they should trust in that content. (Btw the game does start you off in summerset area if you create a new too which is perfect because they should encourage their content to be played.) Gathering skyshards shouldn't be needed to play this game anymore for alts there's so much more to do.

Undaunted, battlegrounds, cyrodil, questing, fighters guild, psi order, crafting, dolmens, gathering mats for gear, farming gear sets, trials, mages guild, leveling all your skill lines (because you level so fast they are not even maxed when you hit 810 CP), daily random dungeons and battlegrounds, duels.

You can easily get on and be entertained for hours upon end without the need grind for skyshard over and over again. And again it would encourage players to try a tank or a healer possibly or even encourage DPS to try other roles because all these classes are unique in their own way and deserve a shot at being played without the game feeling tetious boring and like a chore (that is what causes people to quit games and lose player base)

Edziu · December 2018

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Your idea of "content" is very very very very small if you actually think skyshards are needed when there is what 6+ dlc and 2 full expansions? Lololol ALL of that is content you run plus the full normal game. If we make skyshards account bound it will not change people running content there is so much available. And this game should push you into those new areas rather than wanting you to just collect skyshards in older areas.

this is great point

we can get an example from other game which have introduced new expansions etc
many games dont look back on old content to "force" player every way to do it again o just alts, they mainly go to promote newest content for currently playing people instead of trying to give them old heated food from yesterday like we have it in ESO

why cant we use freshly, heat food immediately for which we have payed but we are forced to ate as firtst old, cold even not heated food from last week/month before we could be able to taste this freshly

but many of us dont have that much space in stomach or "strong for older not fresh already food" and we are just or overhelmed by this and then need longer break after this...or we have just indigestion after eating old food and we are sick after eating this and then we need proper diet to get back to normal functioning

mxxo · December 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Your idea of "content" is very very very very small if you actually think skyshards are needed when there is what 6+ dlc and 2 full expansions? Lololol ALL of that is content you run plus the full normal game. If we make skyshards account bound it will not change people running content there is so much available. And this game should push you into those new areas rather than wanting you to just collect skyshards in older areas.

this is great point

we can get an example from other game which have introduced new expansions etc
many games dont look back on old content to "force" player every way to do it again o just alts, they mainly go to promote newest content for currently playing people instead of trying to give them old heated food from yesterday like we have it in ESO

why cant we use freshly, heat food immediately for which we have payed but we are forced to ate as firtst old, cold even not heated food from last week/month before we could be able to taste this freshly

but many of us dont have that much space in stomach or "strong for older not fresh already food" and we are just or overhelmed by this and then need longer break after this...or we have just indigestion after eating old food and we are sick after eating this and then we need proper diet to get back to normal functioning

Actually this is wrong, because nobody tells you to collect your shards & skillpoints in old zones.

Kidgangster101 · December 2018

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Your idea of "content" is very very very very small if you actually think skyshards are needed when there is what 6+ dlc and 2 full expansions? Lololol ALL of that is content you run plus the full normal game. If we make skyshards account bound it will not change people running content there is so much available. And this game should push you into those new areas rather than wanting you to just collect skyshards in older areas.

this is great point

we can get an example from other game which have introduced new expansions etc
many games dont look back on old content to "force" player every way to do it again o just alts, they mainly go to promote newest content for currently playing people instead of trying to give them old heated food from yesterday like we have it in ESO

why cant we use freshly, heat food immediately for which we have payed but we are forced to ate as firtst old, cold even not heated food from last week/month before we could be able to taste this freshly

but many of us dont have that much space in stomach or "strong for older not fresh already food" and we are just or overhelmed by this and then need longer break after this...or we have just indigestion after eating old food and we are sick after eating this and then we need proper diet to get back to normal functioning

Actually this is wrong, because nobody tells you to collect your shards & skillpoints in old zones.

Lol if that's the point no one tells you to do anything in this game at all. No one says you don't have to level undaunted, no one says you have to run dungeons or trials, no one says you need complete gear sets, no one says if your a stam user you need all medium gear, or a mage you need all light gear. It is a given that you can read what they do and know oh I'm a mage I think all the passives are a great idea lol. Nothing in this game is set in stone at all. DPS quing into instances as a tank and healer because "the que is too long for DPS" is a common thing and common sense should say que your role so others can enjoy their play time.

No one in the game actually tells me I need my passives so therefore I can enter end game with no passive moves on my toon at all. 810cp right here all gold gear but I only got any move that does damage so I can pew pew and wait there's more I'm wearing 2 medium pieces 5 heavy using a bow and I got all these nice gear that give no bonus! I'm gonna que for the vet trial yeah baby!

Your argument is just terrible

AlnilamE · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

My 3 friends in I all made DPS. we loved leveling the game together. Now we at end game and want to run dungeons, but alas 2 of us have to re-roll to Tank/Healer. We love our DPS characters and dont want to change them, thus we have to make new. Now instead of playing with our 3 friends, 2 of us are bored chasing skyshards and the other 2 are bored waiting for us to catch up. 4 friends not playing together now asking themselves why are they playing this MMORPG if they cant play together for the next x hours?

If you are against account bound skyshards toggle, you are selfish. Toggle off/on.
It affects you in no way, shape or form.

You have options.

1. You can earn all the skill points from dungeons, since the main tank/healer skills are unlocked at a very low level.
2. Your friends can also make a healer and tank, so you can spend a short amount of time together (say 20-30 minutes) chasing skyshards before you run into dungeons each time you play.
3. You can run dungeons before your character is 100% at the point you feel they should be. It will be a bit more challenging, but I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

If the Undaunted event taught me anything is that if you are playing with friends and willing to have fun, your dungeon group composition can be reaaaally flexible.

Also of note, if you are pre-forming groups of 4, just go in with 4DPS if that's what you prefer playing?

AlnilamE · December 2018

teladoy wrote: »

I think they should do it. Because now you can level up a character so fast that after you don't have enough skill points.

If they don't do it at least they should give more skill points as you level up your character, because right now it is very tedious.

We already get 14 more skill points reaching level 50 than we did at launch.

Edziu wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

people claim content is to easy its mainly becaus eof CP power creep and jsut becasue basic game is really to easy
people claiming game is to easy they dont even think about exploration because its ofc even easier but then its more booooring

Whether exploration is boring is entirely down to the player, but this is primarily an open world-based PvE game with story and quests such that those who find exploration boring may find it's not for them. It's not designed around the desires of some to jump straight into the endgame.

As you say, people claim the content is too easy already so it doesn't make sense to give them loads more skill points upfront, that would just make it even easier.

It's not CP power creep that makes the content too easy for additional characters, it's the application of hundreds of CPs to low-level characters. Making the same mistake with skill points would just magnify the problem.

hmm but then when ZOS i adding new dlc or something then why its mainly focued for veteran instances in it like dungs, triqals or arenas?

in every next dlc map to exploration is lesser
1st was craglorn and next orsinium as new added map - realy big maps. Then every next dlc we get really small, TG, DB on realy small maps and then every 2nd dlc there is even no map to exploration but only dungs!
even looking at expansions...morrowind is just like orsinium and as it was added much later it is called expansion instead dlc...ok, let it be but then summerset...didnt you notice something different between summerset and morrowind expansion? (Im not looking on map and content design) - even summerset as next expansion is smaller than expansion before

so every new dlc we are getting for sure veteran content ro progress like map but map is smaller in every new dlc and then what ZOS want?

to keep us exploring same areas over and over whiel every new dlc is with even small area? or maybe to progress harder content like dungs as for this in every next dlc is not smaller amount of added new instances and they are even harder to go

I missing point of "exploration is must to be done" as main content in this game to repeat nonstop while isntances (dungs, trials) are different thing as they are created to repeat and progress them
oreven forgotten pvp...we have pvp but for what as for today? before you can go for true pvp as pvp player you are forced to struggle pve for days for not only grind your character different skill lines but also to farm some gear and here we are missing this point "play as you want"

combat and with it its going to pvp system is great and unique in ESO (not looking at balance) and we have...or atlest we had many true pvp's but ugh...still forced to do lame pve exploration instead of having fun of pvp

I dont feel like Im playing as I want (while I want) but this game is more imoses on me how I should play and I should have fun of this (also not looking at meta)

thats why I was stuck for over 3.5 years to single character..ofc I have lvled 7 other chars but guess what///they are *** only as magazines as my willing to running simulator have burn out just after hitting on them 50lvl

After Orsinium, all the DLC zones are the same size (2 delves, 2 world bosses, daily quests, etc).

And if we are getting 4 new DLC dungeons each year, isn't that 4 new skill points that can be earned by the dungeon bats without having to get skyshards?

tmbrinks · December 2018

you do not need to collect shyshards to do endgame content

I'll say it louder

YOU DO NOT NEED TO COLLECT SKYSHARDS TO DO ENDGAME CONTENT!

(you can get skill points elsewhere)

Edziu · December 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

(you can get skill points elsewhere)

elsewhere with longer time and even more boring than running simulator

as I was writing we could creat thread about make quest skillpoints account wide but nobody is doing it + different group of players (questesr) will be same against this like you against this thread so this isnt matter for us for which skillpoints we would ask to be account wide

Edziu · December 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

We already get 14 more skill points reaching level 50 than we did at launch.

no we dont
these was locked behind 16 vet rank which was removed for CP and if VR still would be in game we will have same amount of skillpoints for max lvl character

AlnilamE wrote: »

After Orsinium, all the DLC zones are the same size (2 delves, 2 world bosses, daily quests, etc).

And if we are getting 4 new DLC dungeons each year, isn't that 4 new skill points that can be earned by the dungeon bats without having to get skyshards?

yeah same small size in compare to just orsinium and as I wrote every 2nd dlc even dont have own map but its with only 2 dungs as dlc - and so there are only 2 skillpoints here and with no any exploration

Edziu · December 2018

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Your idea of "content" is very very very very small if you actually think skyshards are needed when there is what 6+ dlc and 2 full expansions? Lololol ALL of that is content you run plus the full normal game. If we make skyshards account bound it will not change people running content there is so much available. And this game should push you into those new areas rather than wanting you to just collect skyshards in older areas.

this is great point

we can get an example from other game which have introduced new expansions etc
many games dont look back on old content to "force" player every way to do it again o just alts, they mainly go to promote newest content for currently playing people instead of trying to give them old heated food from yesterday like we have it in ESO

why cant we use freshly, heat food immediately for which we have payed but we are forced to ate as firtst old, cold even not heated food from last week/month before we could be able to taste this freshly

but many of us dont have that much space in stomach or "strong for older not fresh already food" and we are just or overhelmed by this and then need longer break after this...or we have just indigestion after eating old food and we are sick after eating this and then we need proper diet to get back to normal functioning

Actually this is wrong, because nobody tells you to collect your shards & skillpoints in old zones.

yes nobody tells me to collect these shards and skillpoints from old zones but in dlc zones even if I collect every shard (skipping quests) I still have no enough skillpoints or build with flexibility to not respec it every few hours (if not every hour) of playing

like nobody tells me to which skills use and to unlock every needed passive but to be sure same nobody will take me to harder veteran content to just carry me every time in this in this state character with missing skills

Tandor · December 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

you do not need to collect shyshards to do endgame content

I'll say it louder

YOU DO NOT NEED TO COLLECT SKYSHARDS TO DO ENDGAME CONTENT!

(you can get skill points elsewhere)

Moreover, if you do want to get skyshards it's entirely down to you where you go for them - new content or old content. There are more than enough to go round.

As for the argument that nobody tells you where to go or what to do (a) I'm glad this game doesn't hold my hand every step of the way like some others, and (b) we are discussing the issue in relation to experienced players who already have at least one maxed character and are wanting less (what they see as) tedium when leveling alts, not new players who are still leveling their first character. By the time you have maxed one character you ought to have a reasonable feel for the game, unless of course you just ground your way to 50 instead of playing the game. I imagine that few do that, however, with their first character.

Cpt_Teemo · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

If it's a huge issue to share skyshards why do we share champion points? All my toons Leach off the work my Templar does. So what you really want to make the game grindy is to split those up as well. Hell let's make it so we can't share gear too! Why can I craft gold gear and give it to my alt? They did no work for it have fun grinding 800+ CP Everytime you want a new toon

This right here

Everyone who says we want handouts is missing the point. I guess they want everyone to be miserable.

We want quality of life changes, changes that can be a simple toggle and will not affect any other player in any way, shape or form.

Exactly, we need to add consumeables, and traits in for account wide as well

tmbrinks · December 2018

Edziu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

(you can get skill points elsewhere)

elsewhere with longer time and even more boring than running simulator

as I was writing we could creat thread about make quest skillpoints account wide but nobody is doing it + different group of players (questesr) will be same against this like you against this thread so this isnt matter for us for which skillpoints we would ask to be account wide

If you don't want to do any of the things to earn skill points, go play something else, as this is clearly not the game for you.

(I also question, that, based on your logic, skyshards are the easiest and least "boring" way, why are you asking for those to be account bound. I'd think you'd want the worst way to be (which would probably be Alliance War), but I digress....)

Edziu · December 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

(you can get skill points elsewhere)

elsewhere with longer time and even more boring than running simulator

as I was writing we could creat thread about make quest skillpoints account wide but nobody is doing it + different group of players (questesr) will be same against this like you against this thread so this isnt matter for us for which skillpoints we would ask to be account wide

If you don't want to do any of the things to earn skill points, go play something else, as this is clearly not the game for you.

(I also question, that, based on your logic, skyshards are the easiest and least "boring" way, why are you asking for those to be account bound. I'd think you'd want the worst way to be (which would probably be Alliance War), but I digress....)

well in last point you are right here...but well, thats just this thread about this instead of other source of skillpoints so we are taqlking about them

and well Im doing for skillpoints, as many of you are saying we have some of them in dungs so I do dungs but this is not enough
why we dont have maybe 2 skillpoint for doing 1st time quest int trial? this could be also good option but ehh, we dont have this