Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Skyshards account bound
-
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »If it's a huge issue to share skyshards why do we share champion points? All my toons Leach off the work my Templar does. So what you really want to make the game grindy is to split those up as well. Hell let's make it so we can't share gear too! Why can I craft gold gear and give it to my alt? They did no work for it
have fun grinding 800+ CP Everytime you want a new toon
This right here
Everyone who says we want handouts is missing the point. I guess they want everyone to be miserable.
We want quality of life changes, changes that can be a simple toggle and will not affect any other player in any way, shape or form.Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.4 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
@Abigail you told another poster to find a better analogy than work.Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
Which means you've no deadlines, no hurries, no need for the expedition of your character's progression.@TheShadowScout
It happens that I don't want skyshards account bound; however, I still find your argument specious, and here's why.
This is a game, not work. We pay to play it, not the other way around.
Find a better analogy, please.
You've decided there's some needed level. You decide if it worth attaining or not.
This is still a non-issue.
EDIT: It's not like this game has permadeath. The only thing you ever have to reaquire are stolen goods or a little bit of gold. Your progress does not get reset.
*shrugs*
Haven't a clue what you're trying to say.
It's a game, so why the rush? Perhaps there's still reward for appropriate effort.
TL;DR;DU: There's nothing game breaking about becoming end-game viable, whatever end game you choose to pursue. Skillpoints (which is the real goal here) can be acquired along the way while collecting every other necessity for one's characters, but it still requires that minimum of effort.
The analogy is spot on. The only difference is method of payment.
If you want the benefit, put forth the minimal effort. If you want a gift, go to a baby shower or a time-share presentation.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Abigail✭✭✭✭✭@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hayden_Knight wrote: »kyle.wilson wrote: »Hayden_Knight wrote: »Personally i think nothing at all should be account bound especially CP. its not often i see many players with less than 1000 CP these days, and we're running 160 gear - what a joke.
Only items brought from crown store should be shared.
However, the fact we have account shared CP. I agree with the OP and wouldn't be opposed to Sky shards being account wide, as well as all other achievements.
I don't understand this half in half out thing. Yea some stuff is shared, just enough to mean that you'll never enjoy questing or levelling alts again as you'll have CP coming out your ears and one shot most mobs - nothing will be a challenge ever again.
I don't understand the argument that cp affects the questing aspect. Everything is scaled so it shouldn't affect the players enjoyment. They don't have to spend the CP just like account bound skyshards would demand spending.
No-one is asking for the skill trees to be fully unlocked. That would affect the leveling aspect.
As for the 1000cp, that may be common in trails and pvp, but in pug dungeons I'm finding myseft the only one with close to rthe grand mark. I've done 10 in the last day, only 1 other person was above the 810 spend limit with most around 400cp.
But that's just anecdotal.
Why should i gimp myself just to make quest content more of a challenge?
Also then there is no sense of progression and no incentive to do the zones properly. This can be true also for why you don't see many players above 1000cp doing daily dungeons.
If however CP and achievements wasn't account shared it would encourage me to actually do dungeons and properly explore zones to hit CP cap as my ultimate goal.
Edit: i know the game has to cater forTo follow-up my previous post:
https://tinyurl.com/yae9ph5b
This is my Sorcerer build, with no crafting and no non-combat passives. Only the things necessary for maximum PvE DPS and basic survivability.
This requires 104 skill points. If you craft, that goes up to 253 skill points. If you PvP, that's a whole lot more that I don't even want to think about.
TL;DR You need waaay more than 64 skill points to make a character work.
then quest, you will be over 100 before you hit 50. that's pretty damn close to where you said you need. If you want to craft, you should have to do some work to get to that point. And you only need 87 to be able to do max level writs on all your toon, so don't know where you're getting an extra 149 for all that.
Again, with the cherry picking of what I say.
Writs are not only what crafting is. You need upgrades, research, etc etc. And you did do work to get to that point. You leveled the skills. Skill points are just an artificial limiter that has no real reason to be in place.
And no, questing is even worse than Skyshards. Each large zone has about 3 skill points from quests, not including DLC like Dark Brotherhood where every quest has a skill point. You would have to complete the entirety of the overland to get the amount of skill points you would need.
Once again, being disingenuous just to keep a broken system in place. You could be a politician!
So, you get them on the toon you're going to craft on. Styles have already become account bound, no need on other toons.
And if for whatever reason my main is not my crafter?
I have to take a crafter through the entire world just to get enough skill points to both craft and not suck in combat?
You're really making me LOL here...especially with your use of the word toon
do dps until you get enough, than respec... you make me LOL as wel
So I need to waste a large sum of gold now instead of being provided with a basic QOL feature that should have been in the game since launch?To follow-up my previous post:
https://tinyurl.com/yae9ph5b
This is my Sorcerer build, with no crafting and no non-combat passives. Only the things necessary for maximum PvE DPS and basic survivability.
This requires 104 skill points. If you craft, that goes up to 253 skill points. If you PvP, that's a whole lot more that I don't even want to think about.
TL;DR You need waaay more than 64 skill points to make a character work.
then quest, you will be over 100 before you hit 50. that's pretty damn close to where you said you need. If you want to craft, you should have to do some work to get to that point. And you only need 87 to be able to do max level writs on all your toon, so don't know where you're getting an extra 149 for all that.
Again, with the cherry picking of what I say.
Writs are not only what crafting is. You need upgrades, research, etc etc. And you did do work to get to that point. You leveled the skills. Skill points are just an artificial limiter that has no real reason to be in place.
And no, questing is even worse than Skyshards. Each large zone has about 3 skill points from quests, not including DLC like Dark Brotherhood where every quest has a skill point. You would have to complete the entirety of the overland to get the amount of skill points you would need.
Once again, being disingenuous just to keep a broken system in place. You could be a politician!
So, you get them on the toon you're going to craft on. Styles have already become account bound, no need on other toons.
And if for whatever reason my main is not my crafter?
I have to take a crafter through the entire world just to get enough skill points to both craft and not suck in combat?
You're really making me LOL here...especially with your use of the word toon
and who is being disingenuous now? there are 416 skill points in the game... don't need them all
You kind of do, especially with the number of skills present in ESO.Maybe there should be a separate server that combines all of the 'make X account-wide' requests.
In this special needs server, you get:
- All the skill points in the game, so you don't have to find skyshards or run content previously completed
- All the motifs in the game so you can immediately create your special outfit
- All drop sets as craftable sets once you've found each item
- All currencies, including writ vouchers, available in the daily 'participation trophy' rewards
- Hirelings for Jewelry and Alchemy
- One giant trading kiosk for everybody
- Every skin available for Crowns or for gold from a special vendor
- Free daily Crown Crates and a special mount each week for logging in
- Riding skills at max immediately
I think that covers all the effort nerfs requested over the past few months. Combine these all into the special needs server so everyone who wants an effort-free game is on an even playing field. Provide a one-time server transfer so the players who want this don't lose anything.
Problem solved.
I like how basic QOL things like an auction house, account wide skyshards, and a horse that runs faster than the player are all "special needs" requests for "effort-free" gameplay
Like Jesus, you really define gameplay as collectibles, teleporting, and jogging?
None of those items come close to 'quality of life' improvements. All those requests actually subvert game play, create imbalance towards new players, and skip content. In a word, they're requests to cheat - a strong word, I'll agree, but the desire to skip effort in order to gain advantages is essentially a desire to cheat.
Cheat? Imbalance? Clearly words have different meanings for you. Bank shared, CP shared, they create more imbalance than shared Skyshards or skill lines or whatever. QoL is clearly something which help you leveling, achieve things with less effort possible to enjoy the game especially on multiple chars. Collecting same things over and over again doing the opposite actually. Sure we all do because we are forced. Hope we wouldn't.
Quality of Life improvements are things like being able to arrange your characters on the log-in screen. Or being able to improve gear you're currently wearing, rather than unequipping it first. Being able to ride mounts in homes.
Big difference between that and removing the need to explore/quest for skyshards/skill points.
We are all talking about multiple chars. You had that explore/questing multiple times already.
Explain me anyone how sharing Skyshards, Skill lines and some achievements create some imbalance and cheating compared to a new player?
A level 3 with the ability to unlock ALL skills, ALL passives, ALL abilities, and you DON'T think that's OP???
Maybe they want Flawless Conqueror title at level 3? Or Emperor at level 10?
Empy you can do on a really low level.0 -
chaz✭✭✭✭Sky shards are part of a leveling system, won't be account bound ever...That's like making one all powerful toon, then starting a new game but instead of enjoying leveling up, you're automatically level (What ever you're currect CP is). After you reach level 50, then the bonus of having those CP is that it is account bound, so all your characters will have access to it.FOR LORD DAGON !!!!!!!!!!
*** Lord Dagon's Mythic Dawn (Eso Guild Dicord Invite link)
>>>>> BETA Player In-Game Gift<<<<< ((((Chaz's Profile of 2013))))ESO Beta Test Ultimate Question for control!
Lord Dagon's Mythic Dawn Guild is now recruiting. Dailies, trials, Raids, Fun, Discord (required for staying on Crown), guild bank and so much more. Msg me or mail me in game @Chaz for invite. **See Link Here** ElderScrollsOnlineYouTube
ElderScrollsOnline Purchase History April 17, 2017 through May 30th 2022 (Crowns,Upgrades, ESO Plus) = $5,610.381 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's an MMO, not a casual game to cater your conventional needs
They lowered the ceiling so much it is as causal friendly as it gets, Cx. The veteran days were a grind, Oof.
I think making things account wide once you hit champion level is okie. It pretty much fits in with how things are now and will be an incentive for people to actually find the shards and complete all the guild quests. Maybe even keep more new players and long time players around longer.
If they at least did the work, idc just gives me more challenging players to play against in PvP.
1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheTombstone wrote: »People keep saying we want hand outs. That isn't what I am asking. You are STILL doing the work. Just less times. Whether it's 1 time, or 5 times, you still do the work to unlock an area of shards for other characters.
Someone mentioned loot sharing (I assume being able to trade loot after a boss kill) being a thing that helps reduce grind.... No. That isn't what that is for. That's for "This item is useless for me, anyone else want it?" Just about every MMO has that. WoW, SWTOR, etc etc.
You are only doing the work if you regard characters as interchangeable templates. If you regard them as separate entities then you are not doing the work. They are. And they are doing it individually.
Then why not allow the player to decide ...
When creating a character give two options
New character ... As is now
New linked character ... Links to existing character ... Both share everything.
I know I would probably play more on other characters with a linked option
No worry about accidentally reading a motif on the wrong character ... Allows those of us with limited play time the chance to play other characters n still chase those achievements while also allowing others to play the way it is now
Add in the option to reset the world quests so they can be replayed and maybe up the difficulty to make having a linked character interesting
Earlier in the thread I actually went as far as suggesting an entire endgame server, where people who actually just want templates could migrate their accounts and then make as many as they want.
It could even be done using the phasing system already in the game, i.e. if you make that choice during character creation then you will only ever see players who have made the same choice as you.
I am ok with this happening as long as the players who do it don't inhabit the same Tamriel as I do. If character-centred progression means little to nothing to you, then we are playing fundamentally different games. We will have very little in common. Let's, at least, have the two phases: the MMORPG phase and the MOBA/FPS phase. That should keep people happy.4 -
POps75p✭✭✭✭no, no and more no's. I have 15 toons that had to grind skyshards to get all of the skill points they needed to be battle ready, so [snip], and grind away. no if they add 15 more toons to the game than I agree and think it's a wonderful idea
[Edit for bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 25, 2018 2:50AM0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But design intent does. And skyshards were designed to be character bound. That's why they are very easy to acquire.
Meanwhile, other things are designed to be account bound, like champion points, and they take longer to accrue and each point has a very small effect.
You talking about a game that is 100% different leveling process from launch.
If we never changed "design intent" than wtf is One Tamriel there for?2 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But design intent does. And skyshards were designed to be character bound. That's why they are very easy to acquire.
Meanwhile, other things are designed to be account bound, like champion points, and they take longer to accrue and each point has a very small effect.
You talking about a game that is 100% different leveling process from launch.
If we never changed "design intent" than wtf is One Tamriel there for?
Because One Tamriel was the design intent all along.
"... for Firor’s team, Skyrim’s success led to an unexpected crisis... So Firor and his team did the only thing they could: They set about rebuilding their vision for the game. It was a transformation so vast that when ESO launched on Windows PC in April of 2014, the list of changes was barely halfway done.
Their work wasn’t over when the game changed its name to The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, or when it launched on modern consoles just a few months later in June. They weren’t finished when the game abandoned its subscription model in favor of something different, or when it launched five major pieces of downloadable content in quick succession.
And the transformation of ESO won’t be truly complete until next Tuesday, on Oct. 18. That’s when the next free content update, called One Tamriel, launches on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
Only then will ESO finally achieve the goals Firor’s team set in early 2012."
https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/10/14/13285014/elder-scrolls-online-one-tamriel-skyrim-mmo1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sky shards are part of a leveling system, won't be account bound ever...That's like making one all powerful toon, then starting a new game but instead of enjoying leveling up, you're automatically level (What ever you're currect CP is). After you reach level 50, then the bonus of having those CP is that it is account bound, so all your characters will have access to it.
Bruh think of what you just said. "Reaching level 50 unlocks your champion points" but doesn't that make leveling a new toon like sharing one account and ruining your experience? I mean all you do to level is go to one spot spam a few moves over and over again 3-5 hours later profit you went from 1- CP infinite! By your logic if we can't have skill points then why share CP? You should have to grind 800+ CP all over again the same way we have to grind 200+ skillpoints 4 -
sulima✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Sky shards are part of a leveling system, won't be account bound ever...That's like making one all powerful toon, then starting a new game but instead of enjoying leveling up, you're automatically level (What ever you're currect CP is). After you reach level 50, then the bonus of having those CP is that it is account bound, so all your characters will have access to it.
Bruh think of what you just said. "Reaching level 50 unlocks your champion points" but doesn't that make leveling a new toon like sharing one account and ruining your experience? I mean all you do to level is go to one spot spam a few moves over and over again 3-5 hours later profit you went from 1- CP infinite! By your logic if we can't have skill points then why share CP? You should have to grind 800+ CP all over again the same way we have to grind 200+ skillpoints 
3 -
TheTombstone✭✭✭CP does a great thing by letting your character be stronger at lower levels. However, that makes it almost entirely too OP according to some people. It let's you invest points instantly into trees that others at the same level don't have. Whereas skill points from skyshards are worthless if you do not have things leveled.5 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭No be grateful CP is accountwideThuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To be honest I dont understand why people are complaining about the easiest way to gain skill points in the game. And that's what sky shards are outside of leveling. I mean would you rather have to quest for them? Because that's your alternative. Zos did us a favor by making them so accessible.1 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Cillion3117 wrote: »That takes away the fun of discovery.
Yes, aswell as the whole concept of role would be trashed.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Sky shards are part of a leveling system, won't be account bound ever...That's like making one all powerful toon, then starting a new game but instead of enjoying leveling up, you're automatically level (What ever you're currect CP is). After you reach level 50, then the bonus of having those CP is that it is account bound, so all your characters will have access to it.
Bruh think of what you just said. "Reaching level 50 unlocks your champion points" but doesn't that make leveling a new toon like sharing one account and ruining your experience? I mean all you do to level is go to one spot spam a few moves over and over again 3-5 hours later profit you went from 1- CP infinite! By your logic if we can't have skill points then why share CP? You should have to grind 800+ CP all over again the same way we have to grind 200+ skillpoints
Well, as @idk mentioned, there would be a problem with the below 50 Cyrodiil campaign, because CP are disabled there.Edited by Kelces on November 26, 2018 1:41PMYou reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!0 -
Curtdogg47✭✭✭✭If you are in a guild, then use the travel to player to get a wayshrine in each zone. Then ride through each zone and grab the shards in open world. Usually 8 in each zone. As you discover locations you get some nice xp as well.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »No be grateful CP is accountwide
Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints? Lol so no I won't be great full that CP carries over but skillpoints don't. CP can be used right away and break the game so bad that classes get nerfed heavily because of CP, but yet skillpoints are more valuable? Why because a toon can actually learn passives as they level rather than getting mad because they have to grind a grindy game for every toon they want?wtlonewolf20 wrote: »To be honest I dont understand why people are complaining about the easiest way to gain skill points in the game. And that's what sky shards are outside of leveling. I mean would you rather have to quest for them? Because that's your alternative. Zos did us a favor by making them so accessible.
Nope I will then again argue instead of giving us skillpoints why not make it so CP is unlocked through really boring and long quests? I will always make an argument about CP and skill points because skill points don't make the game broken where as CP does. I've seen light armor builds that have max resistances in the game because of CP like seriously that should be available to a new toon that hit 50 that has the basic skillpoints in the game just because you took time to grind CP on another toon? Lol last I checked class passives were not that powerful at all can anyone argue that with me? I would like to hear how CP isn't breaking the game tbh but skillpoints are lolKidgangster101 wrote: »Sky shards are part of a leveling system, won't be account bound ever...That's like making one all powerful toon, then starting a new game but instead of enjoying leveling up, you're automatically level (What ever you're currect CP is). After you reach level 50, then the bonus of having those CP is that it is account bound, so all your characters will have access to it.
Bruh think of what you just said. "Reaching level 50 unlocks your champion points" but doesn't that make leveling a new toon like sharing one account and ruining your experience? I mean all you do to level is go to one spot spam a few moves over and over again 3-5 hours later profit you went from 1- CP infinite! By your logic if we can't have skill points then why share CP? You should have to grind 800+ CP all over again the same way we have to grind 200+ skillpoints
Well, as @idk mentioned, there would be a problem with the below 50 Cyrodiil campaign, because CP are disabled there.[/quote]
I didn't even mention cyrodil at all there lol. So idk what your answer means at all that you replied to me5 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
I will get you later my pvp/pve build for templar I spent over 100 skill points before getting my crafts. I will count out exactly what I had to get later. Crafts alone is going to take 150+ skill points to max everything. I'm sorry that you think you can make a build using low skillpoints but I actually put effort into my toons. I play multiple toons with 150+ skill points each and I always find myself wishing I had more to slightly improve each toon. So don't tell me I can make a viable build with low sp (because you can make a cookie cutter build with low sp that doesn't do what my toon can.)2 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After thinking about this for a while, and reading the array of responses, I think I figured out the origin of the issue. I believe that ZOS considers each character as their own adventure. On their own journey. You choosing their path, what they do, how you use them. This is illustrated with achievement points and titles that are earned by that character. iIt is how you have developed them. It is a very classic MMO concept.
The line does blur slightly between what your account achieves versus what your character achieves, as illustrated by how we have account-wide dyes, and how CP earned by Veteran characters are considered account achievement-level, and are shared. For ZOS, they get to determine what is character bound and what is account bound.
I still am of the opinion that I am against this, because of how absurdly easy it is to utilize in-game methods for quickly obtaining skyshards and skill points. And that I believe that each character should explore at the rate you choose for them, for them to grind to an aspired goal, whether that be Mages Guild, or unlocking passives. The time you invest into your character is the development of your character. Exploring zones gives you XP for every POI that you discover, if you are wearing purple training armor with XP scrolls or potions, the XP adds up. Killing mobs to get to skyshards gives XP. Expanding your map and discovering new zones will contribute towards your character.
This isn't masochistic, I am not endorsing massive grinds, I am not wishing others to 'suffer'. The effort you put into your character, in the current system, is what defines your character from a blank canvas you can get on the PTS, as many have pointed out.
Simply handing out skill points when you reach level 50 does not take this into account. Yes you can grind XP after you're level 50, but if you didn't have time to collect shards or gain skill points through the main quest, dungeons, or the Alliance War, why would you have time to do it when you're max level? When you're a low level, you get stat bonuses, even in normal dungeons. Even if you're short on time to play, you can /easily/ queue into group finder as soon as you unlock it, and do your first random normal dungeon (from the ones you've unlocked access to, from the level up rewards). You get a HUGE XP amount from this. Plus the skill point from doing the quest in the dungeon, as well as starting to level up Undaunted, granted you remembered to join the Undaunted guild.
The actual experience of going through a zone and absorbing the content you paid for is what you're asking to be monetized, if they do it with Crowns, or cheapening it. Why produce quality content when you can just give people the goodies without the work? The idea of making it a toggle is ridiculous, no one in their right mind, outside of RP reasons, would handicap themselves. CP allocation is as close to a toggle as you can get, since you can choose to not use your CP.
If ZOS does go down this road, and removes the need to go and get skyshards with an unlock system at level 50, I will really be worried about the quality of their future content. We already have Murkmire main quests giving out wrong-leveled loot, certain quests are bugged, and they have not even addressed these issues yet. Heck, there are still bugs in Morrowind and Summerset that have not been addressed.Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
I will get you later my pvp/pve build for templar I spent over 100 skill points before getting my crafts. I will count out exactly what I had to get later. Crafts alone is going to take 150+ skill points to max everything. I'm sorry that you think you can make a build using low skillpoints but I actually put effort into my toons. I play multiple toons with 150+ skill points each and I always find myself wishing I had more to slightly improve each toon. So don't tell me I can make a viable build with low sp (because you can make a cookie cutter build with low sp that doesn't do what my toon can.)
once again. You CHOOSE to want to do those extra things (PVE/PVP and Crafting). The point is that you only NEED about 100 skill points to make a character that is VIABLE (not ELITE, not the best, but VIABLE). If you want to be elite, if you want it to be the best, you need to put in some work.
I thought the post you quoted was very clear about a character being viable, but you took this to mean maxed out and can do anything, there's a fundamental disconnect there.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger70,730 achievement points3 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
A fenced parking lot is a terrible analogy for a video game war.
0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
A fenced parking lot is a terrible analogy for a video game war.
Everything is a terrible analogy, because an analogy doesn't even need to be made.
Based on 16 pages of back and forth, it seems that it is a very divided issue which means chances are it's not going to change any time soon.
I know that I would be more than a little miffed if something that I have worked very hard for on 8 characters over 4 plus years suddenly just became "available" virtually instantly to someone who simply wants to grind dolmens for a few hours to max a character.
It's simply too much of an advantage over new players. Hell, I think CP SHOULD be account bound, but not instantly available to a brand new level 3 character. I think 10 of your CP should unlock every level as part of your level rewards.
I guess I'm just old school, but I believe in individual character progression.3 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hell, I think CP SHOULD be account bound, but not instantly available to a brand new level 3 character. I think 10 of your CP should unlock every level as part of your level rewards.
I guess I'm just old school, but I believe in individual character progression.
Agreed, @Bouldercleave.
I’m running a level 18 Imperial in Vivec PvP at the moment.
Kind of surprised how well that character does with a full 810 CP, crafted jewelry/gear, and scaled stats.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
I will get you later my pvp/pve build for templar I spent over 100 skill points before getting my crafts. I will count out exactly what I had to get later. Crafts alone is going to take 150+ skill points to max everything. I'm sorry that you think you can make a build using low skillpoints but I actually put effort into my toons. I play multiple toons with 150+ skill points each and I always find myself wishing I had more to slightly improve each toon. So don't tell me I can make a viable build with low sp (because you can make a cookie cutter build with low sp that doesn't do what my toon can.)
once again. You CHOOSE to want to do those extra things (PVE/PVP and Crafting). The point is that you only NEED about 100 skill points to make a character that is VIABLE (not ELITE, not the best, but VIABLE). If you want to be elite, if you want it to be the best, you need to put in some work.
I thought the post you quoted was very clear about a character being viable, but you took this to mean maxed out and can do anything, there's a fundamental disconnect there.
Bruh idk how you function with less. I play pvp and pve I need all of my moves in one way or another. If not all I'm doing is hurting the people that I play with. I just looked at my build and it takes 215 skill points for me to be able to swap moves on the go depending on the situation I'm put into on my Templar. Whether I pvp or do pve i shouldn't need to respec so I got them all. This does not include any crafting skill lines. Now I get you don't need to max out everything to be "casual" and by the way I am casual I play less than 4 hours on average a day. But just from what I've seen in this game on pvp if you don't do these you can struggle to do anything good. If you pve each one of these skill points could mean one less situational move you need depending on a group set up. Whie you don't need them it is certainly nice to have them. And I'm constantly making an argument comparing it to CP so here I'll give this way a try to break it down.
Now if people actually listen to our argument about being for it maybe people would collect everything on one toon so all their toons become strong as they level. Let's compare the game as you level.
Look I'm level 3 I just joined the server let's duel another level 3 because I have 810+CP and they have 0. Wow I'm so powerful.
Now my scenario. Look I'm level 3 I have 300 skill points. Let me assign these skill points right away! Wait what gives!? I can still only unlock 3 moves this is stupid. I thought I was going to be super powerful and elite!
Do you see the difference? Lol
Edited by Kidgangster101 on November 27, 2018 1:19AM4 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭The main issue I see here is time restraints
I myself can only really play one character despite having multiple
There are certain aspects of the game my character cannot do as well as it would be able to if it was one if the other races and classes and such to complete that content I have to invest a lot of hours repeating content I've already done in order to do content I want to complete
Having an option that lets me link my characters so they all share the same achievements including skill points doesn't mean I'll play less ... It means for the short time I get to get on I get to do something I enjoy and always switch characters if I struggle to help me.
For some of you younger players or more abled bodied players you may not like this but for done like me whose hands don't work properly through aging illnesses having this as an option would be fantastic
Truth is if it's simply optional it allows everyone to play their way which is what ESO is supposed to be about.
No one is asking for skill points to be given for free ... Where simply asking that if we want to make new characters give us the option to play them as stand alone characters with a seperate level from the others or link them with shared achievements and skill points so I can continue to enjoy this game my way while you enjoy it your way3 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »(snip for specific comment) The idea of making it a toggle is ridiculous, no one in their right mind, outside of RP reasons, would handicap themselves. CP allocation is as close to a toggle as you can get, since you can choose to not use your CP.
Absolutely good point. In fact, if anyone were to read the "overland is too easy, faceroll content, etc, etc" nearly Every. Single. Player begging for harder/more challenging content refuses to handicap themselves. They don't want to remove their CP to achieve the challenge. No one will choose to NOT have access to skill points if they can have them unless they're hardcore RPers.
We already have people kicked out of group content for CP level. Can you imagine what would happen if people chose not to turn on the toggle and thus short change themselves skill points? Someone, somewhere, would decide that was a reasonable justification that said player was not welcome or was dead weight in a dungeon. Because they have "no reason" not to have x, y, or z unlocked.
PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
You pay for access to the game (and even that's not guaranteed - see ToS regarding downtime, announced or otherwise)@Merlin13KAGL
And just like the individual I quoted, you also missed my prefacing comment about not wanting Skyshards to be account bound. I'll repeat: I do not want account-bound Skyshards.
And it was not a good analogy.
If you want a certain power level, you still have to put forth a minimum of effort.
How's this for a better analogy: You pay for access to a fenced parking lot. It's not guaranteed the lot will always be available (repairs). It's not guaranteed that you'll even get a spot if others beat you to it.
If you decide to get up 6 hours later than every one else. it's certainly not guaranteed you'll get front row by the exit simply because you've parked there once before. Just like the game, you're only paying for access. It's up to you how much much you get out of it vs the effort put in.
Show me a build that requires 160 skillpoints straight out of the gate. I'll even give you the points for better decon so you don't have to swap characters for breakdown. In fact, taking off the full 30 in crafting (some of which is still overkill, you can get away with 9 without affecting viability) So, 130+ points remaining.Kidgangster101 wrote: »Be great full? You know how long it takes to get 160+ skillpoints
60 points for maxed, morphed, full passives on class skills (again, there are likely some that are optional for almost any build/role/class). That leaves 70+ 'needed.'
44 gets you two full weapon lines. Another 13 your main armor line.
That pretty much leaves you Alliance war (which will provide you some of the needed points) and Guilds (Undaunted will definitely provide you the needed points for all of them, if you do it right.).
Again, this is every skill, every passive, and in most cases, some can be disregarded.
In other cases, the difference is going to be initially minor, which means your character will be far from unplayable.
You can be viable in 50-100 hours per character, including points, and that's if you *** around.
A fenced parking lot is a terrible analogy for a video game war.
Everything is a terrible analogy, because an analogy doesn't even need to be made.
Based on 16 pages of back and forth, it seems that it is a very divided issue which means chances are it's not going to change any time soon.
And it does not appear anyone has provided a reason to compel Zos to consider the OP's request. I want it or I feel entitled to it is not very compelling.
2
