CE Reloaded vs Broken Mechanics
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laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »the funnier part is people trying to negate/hide its existence
There is a simple reason why they do it... they are CE users.
It's been a problem for a long time... you have a constant and constant presence of those that wish to deny it works, all from the same source.
There was someone that posted private conversations of this group of players a long while back. They are all in on it, they are all in the same guild(s) and they know exactly what is being done (and they have been doing it for years now).
I'll just add that some of the "competitive" pvp guilds/groups that do a lot of forum smack talking are absolutely CE users (to varying degrees).
They even brag about their inside man now if you peruse their posts, as they got one into the player rep program (no names!)
ZOS did not address it, they just made it so these "great" "awesome" players are cannon fodder for 3 days after a major patch and then go back to "augmented mode". Take a good luck at the deniers and to who they respond in defense... They are all connected in game, as they have been for some time.
why would anyone use CE and get banned for it. if you can do so many more even funnier things without CE^^
It would be because they are using and not getting banned for it.
How many times is "heavy attack weave lol" going to be an acceptable answer to how do 0 regen builds sustain?
doesnt every class have sustain skills? and ele drain?0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »the funnier part is people trying to negate/hide its existence
There is a simple reason why they do it... they are CE users.
It's been a problem for a long time... you have a constant and constant presence of those that wish to deny it works, all from the same source.
There was someone that posted private conversations of this group of players a long while back. They are all in on it, they are all in the same guild(s) and they know exactly what is being done (and they have been doing it for years now).
I'll just add that some of the "competitive" pvp guilds/groups that do a lot of forum smack talking are absolutely CE users (to varying degrees).
They even brag about their inside man now if you peruse their posts, as they got one into the player rep program (no names!)
ZOS did not address it, they just made it so these "great" "awesome" players are cannon fodder for 3 days after a major patch and then go back to "augmented mode". Take a good luck at the deniers and to who they respond in defense... They are all connected in game, as they have been for some time.
why would anyone use CE and get banned for it. if you can do so many more even funnier things without CE^^
It would be because they are using and not getting banned for it.
How many times is "heavy attack weave lol" going to be an acceptable answer to how do 0 regen builds sustain?
doesnt every class have sustain skills? and ele drain?
They usually just say "heavy attack weave" (the lol is snickering behind the keyboard).
It's easier that way.0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with CE is that it's open source so it's not so much a program as it is a platform for modifications and builds. So it becomes more about pursuing individual players for individual methods, which is both time-consuming and harder to back with evidence.
Luckily, a lot of data is server side so number changes in a build are nothing more than visual changes in the client. But I'm wondering if there's any way to flag server strain and spikes arising from the handful of items that do directly affect the client side, classify those into the Error 318 Excessive Messaging, and thus instantly boot any guilty player each and every time that client data is abused.
Being completely unable to play an otherwise working game feels like a more effective punishment for cheaters. If they really like the game, that will hopefully condition them to stop cheating. If they're just trying to be little *** then they'll eventually just get bored with ESO and mess with another game. If Fortnite has taught us anything, it's that a lot of younger players are completely ignorant about the differences between single player mods and multiplayer exploits. We may very well have a population of players like that in ESO who really feel that they're not doing anything fundamentally wrong. Which is, in a way, more problematic than having people who are fully aware that they're doing something they are not supposed to be doing.signing off0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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That is incorrect ...number changes in a build are nothing more than visual changes in the client
You can still change values client side in real-time by manipulating client side memory and the client will happily send that change to the server and it will pass as genuine.
Most values are *still* computed client side, not server side. ZOS has only made it harder to find those values in the client memory by obfuscating them.
Whenever you see a readable value, it was copied from the obfuscated location and decoded for display.
So if you change the clearly readable value then yes, it is for display only.
However, if you change the obfuscated original value, that change is permanent and will make it to the server ...
Edited by SirAndy on October 22, 2018 9:32PM3 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I try very hard not to judge players because this is a game with very muddy waters. In the past, I was frequently accused of cheating when I have never done so.
But at the same time, I know ESO has security issues and in every game in which players can cheat, there are those who surely do. Popular games that are more transparent about cheating ban thousands of players at a time.
I think ZOS does ban players. Certain players who hang out with known cheaters have been banned over the years. Sometimes multiple times. I think that at least in some of those cases, there was more to the story than the player admits to.
Regardless of where you stand on the issue, we should all demand that ZOS implement modern mitigation techniques and be more transparent about cheating. That would improve trust between players.
As a community, we need to show known cheaters less sympathy. At the top end of PVP on PC/NA, there is a community that always welcomes their cheating friends back and will constantly apologize for them. Memory hackers should be shunned by gaming enthusiasts. That needs to be a red line.Edited by zyk on October 22, 2018 10:56PM1 -
PuddingZebra✭✭✭
That is incorrect ...number changes in a build are nothing more than visual changes in the client
You can still change values client side in real-time by manipulating client side memory and the client will happily send that change to the server and it will pass as genuine.
Most values are *still* computed client side, not server side. ZOS has only made it harder to find those values in the client memory by obfuscating them.
Whenever you see a readable value, it was copied from the obfuscated location and decoded for display.
So if you change the clearly readable value then yes, it is for display only.
However, if you change the obfuscated original value, that change is permanent and will make it to the server ...
While your THEORY is true, this requires a mirrored injection, or normal injection. And as of now( or as far as i know/have tested. there could obviously be ways i dont know of, but i am always searching for new ways for myself. I've got a pretty big bug report list ready to be submitted regarding loopholes etc) , you can't inject into core game anymore.
Also, as far as manipulating client-side memory, there's a server-side validity checkup every few seconds. This can be checked by seeing certain hardcaps (speed, jump height, fall damage, etc) disappear as soon as you lose connection. one of the reasons the game has such high latency is because of all those checkups and calculations.
Edited by PuddingZebra on October 22, 2018 10:08PMYou see, I am a Pink Flying Pudding Zebra.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not a theory, like i said above somewhere, i have a bunch of tests i run after each major update.PuddingZebra wrote: »While your THEORY is true, this requires a mirrored injection, or normal injection. And as of now( or as far as i know/have tested. there could obviously be ways i dont know of, but i am always searching for new ways for myself. I've got a pretty big bug report list ready to be submitted regarding loopholes etc) , you can't inject into core game anymore.
Also, as far as manipulating client-side memory, there's a server-side validity checkup every few seconds. This can be checked by seeing certain hardcaps (speed, jump height, fall damage, etc) disappear as soon as you lose connection. one of the reasons the game has such high latency is because of all those checkups and calculations.
The server side check is only for threshold values, meaning if you give yourself 10,000,000 health or if you teleport too far, the server will reject that.
However, you can still manipulate pretty much any stat, including location and speed as long as you keep the changes below the server detection threshold.
ESO still does *not* use a true server based model, the client still makes most of the decisions.
They just made it harder for the average hacker/developer/programmer to figure out how to manipulate the client.
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ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synthwavius wrote: »You just reminded me why I don't touch pvp in eso. It usually brings cancer to every game and there will always be cheaters no matter what anticheat they would use.
this here. i put very little effort into pvp in eso for this reason. it isn't worth the investment when these issues still exist. i'm extremely competitive and i really like eso so it's really disappointing to me that things are the way they are.Edited by ecru on October 23, 2018 12:36AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Was it something like this?
https://youtu.be/1yYgmitCOzU
This, btw, is on ps4. Over a year ago, but shows something similar to what youre talking about. Players keep telling me ps4 can't be hacked or cheated. That's obviously false. Player sits at zero health with 15 other players just nailing him. It's been around longer than you think, and is why people always will question a real players skill. That didn't just happen out of thin air, it's because of things like this.....
Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, the PS4 and XB1 are not impervious to hackers, just harder to compromise.
Hacking on PC requires software. Specifically memory editors.
Hacking on a console requires physically modifying the electronics to put into a devkit mode, and then running unsigned code on it.
Obviously, the former is much easier than the latter. So, for most scriptkiddies and screamers, hacking on the consoles requires technically proficiency they don't possess. Not impossible to obtain, but buying a devkit unit isn't something they can do on a whim.
So, yeah, there are (probably) hackers on the consoles, it's just that the barrier to entry is much higher.Edited by starkerealm on October 23, 2018 1:20AM1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It's not a theory, like i said above somewhere, i have a bunch of tests i run after each major update.PuddingZebra wrote: »While your THEORY is true, this requires a mirrored injection, or normal injection. And as of now( or as far as i know/have tested. there could obviously be ways i dont know of, but i am always searching for new ways for myself. I've got a pretty big bug report list ready to be submitted regarding loopholes etc) , you can't inject into core game anymore.
Also, as far as manipulating client-side memory, there's a server-side validity checkup every few seconds. This can be checked by seeing certain hardcaps (speed, jump height, fall damage, etc) disappear as soon as you lose connection. one of the reasons the game has such high latency is because of all those checkups and calculations.
The server side check is only for threshold values, meaning if you give yourself 10,000,000 health or if you teleport too far, the server will reject that.
However, you can still manipulate pretty much any stat, including location and speed as long as you keep the changes below the server detection threshold.
ESO still does *not* use a true server based model, the client still makes most of the decisions.
They just made it harder for the average hacker/developer/programmer to figure out how to manipulate the client.
And all they need is the current Cheat Engine tables.
Sometimes it's not ready for a couple days and some of the trash talking uber pvpers are fodder for that period.
It's sooooooooooo noticeable. But they will deny deny deny deny to the end of time.3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good morning
This thread had some quite interesting posts.
And I must say, I'm not that sure anymore about anything. All i know right now is that there is something extremely fishy here.
Either CE and / or ZOS has completely messed up so that it is deliberately possible to force health desync issues for everyone who fights a certain build. Furthermore, I just realized how broken the movement checks are (bunny hopping) (which btw. fits the abuse of a bug (read exploiting, except ZOS handles it like other things and embraces it...))
Anyway, depending on further information in this thread i might change some of the original post.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
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Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭It doesnt matter if the health is desynced.
You couldnt kill him anyway.
in that way it would be even funnier to not see a health desync. Just his health constantly staying at >90%^^0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Was it something like this?https://youtu.be/1yYgmitCOzU
This, btw, is on ps4. Over a year ago, but shows something similar to what youre talking about. Players keep telling me ps4 can't be hacked or cheated. That's obviously false. Player sits at zero health with 15 other players just nailing him. It's been around longer than you think, and is why people always will question a real players skill. That didn't just happen out of thin air, it's because of things like this.....
This isn't cheat engine, the guy is dead and simply hasn't respawned yet. Notice how he's not moving or casting abilities? He can't, he's dead.1